- Sep 12, 2013
- 4,903
- 1,721
- 113
Javazon is pretty much the top choice for cows. Hopefully you'll score some nice roonz!I'm interested in giving this a try with my Javazon. I'll be playing on the newest version
2021 Spring RFL Sign-Up and Running Thread: Round 1 (Moo Moo Farm)
- Thread starter PhineasB
- Start date
HoldtheDoor
New member
- Mar 4, 2021
- 4
- 3
- 3
I've been running cows today with her, scored a Sur and a Gul after a few hours. I'm sure all my luck has been spent already lol
Ill join if i get the time to whipup a character this weekend.
Whats a suitable build for the cows when untwinked?? Asides from a javazon that is...
Whats a suitable build for the cows when untwinked?? Asides from a javazon that is...
- Feb 24, 2004
- 6,377
- 1,318
- 113
Blizzard works pretty good. I spec’d out of it thinking to go Blizzballer, but I found I don’t really need the fire skills as Blizzard was doing ok on its own. Questing through Hell will be a pain though!
- Jan 3, 2019
- 1,480
- 1,593
- 93
@Gynli I second blizz! Its really the only good option with out enigma and/or infinity, but fortunately it works pretty great.
@maxicek 2:30-3:00 is definitely pretty tough. I was getting ~3:15 last time i was running my java (on p7) and that was after a bit of practice. Getting sub 4 is extremely doable though for anyone with griffs, enigma, infinity etc. All about not killing a ton of stragglers and not staring at the loot forever.
@saracen85 you should definitely at least try out enigma if you've got one. A little less mf for double the runspeed? Get it!
Here's my setup for this year. I think it's as good as it gets for not wanting to swap weapons a lot or drink many potions.
Helm - Griffs (ias/3mpk)
Amulet - 2 zon/8fcr/8ML
Weapon - 3-4 sets of upped titans to swap between when they run low (one is eth)
Body - Enigma
Shield - Spirit
Gloves - 2/20 java rares with mana
Ring1 - 6 mana leech, energy, life, 1mpk (used this over soj just for the mana leech)
Ring2 - Raven
Belt - Razortail
Boots - Silkweaves
Merc - DEFIANCE, andys, fort, infinity
Charms - a few java/life skillers, a few life/mana scs
I highly recommend the defiance merc if that wasnt clear from the all caps. Feels great. its 68fcr/35ias and I'm only ever out of mana when mana burned, and the bulb refills very quickly while throwing at hardly any cows. With the 9mpk and 14 mana leech with upped titans. I used to run might merc for the even greater mana leech (but i used soj at that time), and defiance is just much much better. It just happens to make the difference between almost always being able to tele/throw/run out of a bad tele and not being able to. And ofc I have played the "standard" setup with hlw and 55 ias, and I can tell no difference in practice between 35 and 55.
Here's a video of my runs with the setup I was using back at the end of last year, which is the same as above, but again I've replaced the soj with a 6ML/1mpk/12 energy ring.
@maxicek 2:30-3:00 is definitely pretty tough. I was getting ~3:15 last time i was running my java (on p7) and that was after a bit of practice. Getting sub 4 is extremely doable though for anyone with griffs, enigma, infinity etc. All about not killing a ton of stragglers and not staring at the loot forever.
@saracen85 you should definitely at least try out enigma if you've got one. A little less mf for double the runspeed? Get it!
Here's my setup for this year. I think it's as good as it gets for not wanting to swap weapons a lot or drink many potions.
Helm - Griffs (ias/3mpk)
Amulet - 2 zon/8fcr/8ML
Weapon - 3-4 sets of upped titans to swap between when they run low (one is eth)
Body - Enigma
Shield - Spirit
Gloves - 2/20 java rares with mana
Ring1 - 6 mana leech, energy, life, 1mpk (used this over soj just for the mana leech)
Ring2 - Raven
Belt - Razortail
Boots - Silkweaves
Merc - DEFIANCE, andys, fort, infinity
Charms - a few java/life skillers, a few life/mana scs
I highly recommend the defiance merc if that wasnt clear from the all caps
. Feels great. its 68fcr/35ias and I'm only ever out of mana when mana burned, and the bulb refills very quickly while throwing at hardly any cows. With the 9mpk and 14 mana leech with upped titans. I used to run might merc for the even greater mana leech (but i used soj at that time), and defiance is just much much better. It just happens to make the difference between almost always being able to tele/throw/run out of a bad tele and not being able to. And ofc I have played the "standard" setup with hlw and 55 ias, and I can tell no difference in practice between 35 and 55.Here's a video of my runs with the setup I was using back at the end of last year, which is the same as above, but again I've replaced the soj with a 6ML/1mpk/12 energy ring.
Last edited:
- Aug 5, 2005
- 8,087
- 2,599
- 113
At my age I need to stare at the loot. Actually I would have missed both a Cham and a Zod in previous Cow rounds if I hadn't.
HoldtheDoor
New member
- Mar 4, 2021
- 4
- 3
- 3
Was this before the runes were colored orange? I remember the days of finding HRs after cow runs just laying in the middle of the field because people weren't paying attention. Of course, they were easier to miss when they were white.
saracen85
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2006
- 3,287
- 852
- 113
@Luhkoh
Nice. Any reason Defiance over HF? Does this mean you can herd them faster? So far I think I'm poor at efficiently doing this.
As for Enigma, I decided against it since the Tristam portal is so close to WP and I really like having a faster CS attack that suits my playstyle.
But tbh, phoenix is the game changer for me. Even back when using an Insight merc, mana keeps running out.
Nice. Any reason Defiance over HF? Does this mean you can herd them faster? So far I think I'm poor at efficiently doing this.
As for Enigma, I decided against it since the Tristam portal is so close to WP and I really like having a faster CS attack that suits my playstyle.
But tbh, phoenix is the game changer for me. Even back when using an Insight merc, mana keeps running out.
- Sep 12, 2013
- 4,903
- 1,721
- 113
I am just wondering, has anybody tried beta Crescent Moon on the merc? Hell Bovine only have +50% FR, and we've already got RL + Phoenix. The 20% Static would go a long way in softening up a herd. It doesn't help much against FI bosses though. Perhaps keeping 'Infinity' in the cube?
Edit: just spit-balling numbers here. But my merc gets off ~5 attacks for every Fissure I am casting. So, for simplicity, lets just say he will cast static once for every Fissure? How many cows on average are going to be within an 11 yard radius? 10-20?
Players 5 Hell Bovine should = 3 x (12588-15449) HP? and with 50% LR, each static would reduce their HP by 12.5%?
So, at full health a SF does total HP damage of: 47,205 (12k HP, 10 cows) up to 115,867.5 (15k HP, 20 cows), giving us an average of 81,536.
However, at/below 50% HP, SF does nothing. So, between 51% - 100% HP, we should be able to average out our damage between 0 - 81k, giving us 40,768 when we inflict damage. Averaging that out with 50% of the time where we do zero damage, gives us an estimate of 20,384 HP inflicted per SF cast.
How does 20k (HP loss) compare to the benefits of 'Infinity' on a single cast of Fissure? I'm guessing the best way to test this is just to do runs with each and see how the times compare..
Last edited:
- Jan 22, 2019
- 4,244
- 2,241
- 113
Rolled my leg picking map. 38s, 11s of S&E lost time -_- Will clean a bit of screenies, but it shouldn't change things by a lot!
- Jan 3, 2019
- 1,480
- 1,593
- 93
@saracen85 yes, holy freeze is generally thought to be undesirable for herding in cow level, but I've not actually tested runtimes myself. Would you need to respec to try out enigma a few runs? If not I would still suggest just trying it. Can still have phoenix on cta swap to get mana when running low. Ofc if you just realllly want to see those legs movin, ignore the suggestion .
.
saracen85
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2006
- 3,287
- 852
- 113
@Luhkoh
I tried Enigma for a couple of test runs. Definitely won't teleport since I just can't get past the slow cast speed. The runspeed is definitely the redeeming factor, but the loss of 1 FPA on CS is just too noticeable to me. My fault really. I just can't stand leaving stragglers alone
Total run time is around 8min. That's partly due to collecting non-rune junk as well.
I'll see how it goes. Not expecting much from this RFL. Just that Cows haven't really been generous for me, so hoping an extended run would change that.
I tried Enigma for a couple of test runs. Definitely won't teleport since I just can't get past the slow cast speed. The runspeed is definitely the redeeming factor, but the loss of 1 FPA on CS is just too noticeable to me. My fault really. I just can't stand leaving stragglers alone
Total run time is around 8min. That's partly due to collecting non-rune junk as well.
I'll see how it goes. Not expecting much from this RFL. Just that Cows haven't really been generous for me, so hoping an extended run would change that.
Sign Up
Please state IF you are running v1.07, 1.08 or 1.09.
-------------------------
Vildecor
maxicek
hackedagainanda
Swamigoon
Nano
Babyhell
art_vandelay (1.09/1.14d)
Terroriffic
lillicoder
CaseyJones
Luhkoh
Pb_pal
ffs
ESDv2
Kitteh
PhineasB
D2DC (1.07/1.14d)
Kartongen
saracen85
m4ke
-------------------------
I guess I have to test this too =)
m4ke
Please state IF you are running v1.07, 1.08 or 1.09.
-------------------------
Vildecor
maxicek
hackedagainanda
Swamigoon
Nano
Babyhell
art_vandelay (1.09/1.14d)
Terroriffic
lillicoder
CaseyJones
Luhkoh
Pb_pal
ffs
ESDv2
Kitteh
PhineasB
D2DC (1.07/1.14d)
Kartongen
saracen85
m4ke
-------------------------
I guess I have to test this too =)
m4ke
- Aug 5, 2005
- 8,087
- 2,599
- 113
@HoldtheDoor After. Actually the Zod was from a straggler too I think, certainly a small pack of 4-5. The Cham I found after I did a whole loop of a circular map and came back to the beginning, I was about to S&E when I saw it. So I'm a bit paranoid about missing them.
Actually I think the best way to get a good score is to not worry about run times too much but get two sets in. Luck is more of a factor for most RFL rounds, being able to discard the lowest score is probably better than running at 3.30 instead of 4.00.
I'm sure one of our resident stattos will be along to prove me wrong with numbers though
Actually I think the best way to get a good score is to not worry about run times too much but get two sets in. Luck is more of a factor for most RFL rounds, being able to discard the lowest score is probably better than running at 3.30 instead of 4.00.
I'm sure one of our resident stattos will be along to prove me wrong with numbers though
Tbh I'm still cheating on D2 with PoE but I'll try my very best to do at least a 20h set per round.
Here's what I'm planning to run with the top build candidates:
Java:
Necro:
Trapper:
These are the builds I expect to get the best numbers in terms of cow killing efficiency, but I'm curious as to how it compares to other builds and maybe we'll get some surprising results. Hope many people will use the run counter in general – also because unless I suddenly get bored with PoE, I think I'll only do one set with the above chars. Other than Nova Sorc, not sure what I'd play for a second set if I end up going for one.
@D2DC Last year I've played Fissure Druid in both variations, 99 FCR with Ravenlore/Phoenix etc., and 163 FCR (recorded a couple of runs here). Very fun build. In my case both approaches had pretty much exactly the same efficiency. 99 FCR Phoenix is very comfortable to play and the "lazy/braindead" variation, can also handle P7 easily btw. 163 FCR on the other hand should be on P5, not as much QoL as Phoenix but much more fun to zap around more quickly. Apart from the benefit of teleporting around quickly, you also want to teleport in place to keep cows running through the Fissure, so the faster casting does help.
but I'll try my very best to do at least a 20h set per round.Here's what I'm planning to run with the top build candidates:
Java:
Tbh I'm not a fan of Spirit for cow Java at all other than for budget reasons. Different from other areas like AS where time spent teleporting vs. throwing javs is more even. But cows is much more teleporting than javelin throwing, and when I do throw javs I want all that juicy damage from faceted shield – it's the single most damaging slot for Java. With Spirit many cows not hit by conviction require extra jav throws which is a bit annoying, might as well just run Insight then.
Anyway, I'll be going with 99 FCR CtA switch and facet shield on 35 IAS Javelin switch ofc. Setup unchanged for a few years now:
Inventory: 6x skiller, 1x backup Titan's, couple of life/mana SCs
Straight-forward build: Fully synergized LF without Valk (but 1p D/A/E and Pierce).
Only one upgrade since 2019 RFL, namely Cham'ed a new a 20/14 Griffon's last year which is a little better than the one she previously used. The only other change I'm considering is making a random 3x RBF, IAS/MPK Monarch instead of HHG. Still had no luck finding a decent Jeweler's Monarch, though.
Anyway, I'll be going with 99 FCR CtA switch and facet shield on 35 IAS Javelin switch ofc.
Setup unchanged for a few years now:- Griffon's (Cham)
- 2x eth, 1x non eth Titan's all upped
- Enigma
- HHG (2x facet, 1x IAS) => might finally make a
- 2 Zon, 20 FCR craft amulet
- 2x FCR/ML/LL with some adds
- Razortail
- 3/20 gloves
- Silkweave
- CtA/Spirit switch
Inventory: 6x skiller, 1x backup Titan's, couple of life/mana SCs
Straight-forward build: Fully synergized LF without Valk (but 1p D/A/E and Pierce).
Only one upgrade since 2019 RFL, namely Cham'ed a new a 20/14 Griffon's last year which is a little better than the one she previously used. The only other change I'm considering is making a random 3x RBF, IAS/MPK Monarch instead of HHG. Still had no luck finding a decent Jeweler's Monarch, though.
Necro:
Equally unchanged for a few years:
Build unchanged as well: After max CE/PN/synergies, rest is devided between GM and AD
- 2/20 circlet (facet)
- DWeb (facet)
- Enigma
- 2 P&B, 20 FCR craft amulet
- Arach
- Spirit
- TO gloves
- FCR/life/mana blood craft ring
- BKWB
- eth Treks
Build unchanged as well: After max CE/PN/synergies, rest is devided between GM and AD
Trapper:
Here I tried a lot of things last year, but Beast just seemed to perform best. Used this:
Last year I concluded what worked best is to just stay on 65 FCR beast switch and not use 102 FCR CtA switch to teleport. That 100% Fanaticism uptime from the very first Merc hit did make a difference in my run times. But planning try several things other things with this char.
- 2/20 circlet 'facet'
- Beast
- Phoenix Monarch
- Enigma
- 2/9 FCR/Str/adds craft amulet
- Raven
- SoJ
- Silkweave
- Arachnid Mesh
- Magefist
Last year I concluded what worked best is to just stay on 65 FCR beast switch and not use 102 FCR CtA switch to teleport. That 100% Fanaticism uptime from the very first Merc hit did make a difference in my run times. But planning try several things other things with this char.
These are the builds I expect to get the best numbers in terms of cow killing efficiency, but I'm curious as to how it compares to other builds and maybe we'll get some surprising results. Hope many people will use the run counter in general – also because unless I suddenly get bored with PoE, I think I'll only do one set with the above chars.
Other than Nova Sorc, not sure what I'd play for a second set if I end up going for one.@D2DC Last year I've played Fissure Druid in both variations, 99 FCR with Ravenlore/Phoenix etc., and 163 FCR (recorded a couple of runs here). Very fun build. In my case both approaches had pretty much exactly the same efficiency. 99 FCR Phoenix is very comfortable to play and the "lazy/braindead" variation, can also handle P7 easily btw. 163 FCR on the other hand should be on P5, not as much QoL as Phoenix but much more fun to zap around more quickly.
Apart from the benefit of teleporting around quickly, you also want to teleport in place to keep cows running through the Fissure, so the faster casting does help.
HoldtheDoor
New member
- Mar 4, 2021
- 4
- 3
- 3
Sign Up
Please state IF you are running v1.07, 1.08 or 1.09.
-------------------------
Vildecor
maxicek
hackedagainanda
Swamigoon
Nano
Babyhell
art_vandelay (1.09/1.14d)
Terroriffic
lillicoder
CaseyJones
Luhkoh
Pb_pal
ffs
ESDv2
Kitteh
PhineasB
D2DC (1.07/1.14d)
Kartongen
saracen85
m4ke
HoldtheDoor
-------------------------
@maxicek That's solid advice - sometimes the game is just stingy with the runes, especially Ber+. I've found one Cham (doing CS with my Hammerdin) but never a Zod. Definitely near the top of my list of things to hunt down.
Please state IF you are running v1.07, 1.08 or 1.09.
-------------------------
Vildecor
maxicek
hackedagainanda
Swamigoon
Nano
Babyhell
art_vandelay (1.09/1.14d)
Terroriffic
lillicoder
CaseyJones
Luhkoh
Pb_pal
ffs
ESDv2
Kitteh
PhineasB
D2DC (1.07/1.14d)
Kartongen
saracen85
m4ke
HoldtheDoor
-------------------------
@maxicek That's solid advice - sometimes the game is just stingy with the runes, especially Ber+. I've found one Cham (doing CS with my Hammerdin) but never a Zod. Definitely near the top of my list of things to hunt down.
- Jan 22, 2019
- 4,244
- 2,241
- 113
Things have started here in France, I could throw a bit of time, with some leg picking and cow running. Not much, 5 runs.
But:
1st was heating run, so I went with about 6' to start to handle using Infinity instead of last year's Insight. As a consequence I started to mana pot, I don't want to move my MPK ring from 1.07 character save yet. Granted a 20/201 Raven frost already!
2nd granted a qualifier.
3rd granted a 36 P&B lifer (2nd one...)
4th nothing
5th...a 39 Java lifer!!!
Well... I have to admit it already paid off oO
Timings are set close to 4' now, so I'm fine with this for a beginning. Will check the cow kills later!
GL HF everyone!
But:
1st was heating run, so I went with about 6' to start to handle using Infinity instead of last year's Insight. As a consequence I started to mana pot, I don't want to move my MPK ring from 1.07 character save yet. Granted a 20/201 Raven frost already!
2nd granted a qualifier.
3rd granted a 36 P&B lifer (2nd one...)
4th nothing
5th...a 39 Java lifer!!!
Well... I have to admit it already paid off oO
Timings are set close to 4' now, so I'm fine with this for a beginning. Will check the cow kills later!
GL HF everyone!
- Mar 13, 2019
- 1,188
- 1,308
- 93
Only two hours in here with p5 Fissure Druid. Runtimes are 2:56,7 on average, kinda slow I feel, should be closer to 2:50 but oh well 
I used the new runcounter to get some preliminary numbers on efficiency. It lists total kills as well as champion and unique kills separately. Since I don't throw a fissure on Rakanishu I just ignore the 1 or so kills my merc gets there on average. Then I use a table I made to determine how much a champion or a unique monster are worth compared to a regular/minion cow:
Using this I get an average of 117,81 p5 Cows/min. For comparison if I don't use this table and just go by the kills column I get 117,56 p5 Cows/min. So this is really more of a table for perfectionists. 
In any case 117 Cows/min is not exactly competetive to the top builds. I'm interested to see what people get with Java.
I used the new runcounter to get some preliminary numbers on efficiency. It lists total kills as well as champion and unique kills separately. Since I don't throw a fissure on Rakanishu I just ignore the 1 or so kills my merc gets there on average. Then I use a table I made to determine how much a champion or a unique monster are worth compared to a regular/minion cow:
| p1 | p3 | p5 | p7 | |
| Cow | 1,00 | 1,00 | 1,00 | 1,00 |
| Champion | 1,60 | 0,98 | 0,79 | 0,70 |
| Unique | 3,44 | 2,11 | 1,70 | 1,51 |
In any case 117 Cows/min is not exactly competetive to the top builds. I'm interested to see what people get with Java.
- Jan 3, 2019
- 1,480
- 1,593
- 93
Nice! Runs are starting well for me. Was able to sneak in 16 runs before work this morning. I'm just counting minions, uniques, and champs all as the same as regular cows for simplicity, and subtracting 8.8 kills per run from my rakanishu testing a few weeks ago. Run data from those 16 runs:
Avg runtime - 2:49
Avg cows/run - 335
P7 cows/min - 119
P5 cows/min - 134
Nice! Better runtimes than I've ever gotten, and I was saying I wanted at least >130 p5 cows/min this year. That's soooo much better than I was getting last year with my nova sorc and trapsin (was getting sub 100 with them). So very pleased, but still a far cry from ffs/gripphon numbers. No idea how they get a cows/run around or even above 400. Even including the maps and chars I tested last year, i was always in the 280-350 range. And I'm so glad I decided to go with java this year rather than fire sorc or something else. She definitely feels like the easiest character to do well with to me.
Considering skipping gcs since they slow me down a good bit (usually id them as i find them to avoid muling a ton). But how else am I gonna find lifers a la @Babyhell?
Avg runtime - 2:49
Avg cows/run - 335
P7 cows/min - 119
P5 cows/min - 134
Nice! Better runtimes than I've ever gotten, and I was saying I wanted at least >130 p5 cows/min this year. That's soooo much better than I was getting last year with my nova sorc and trapsin (was getting sub 100 with them). So very pleased, but still a far cry from ffs/gripphon numbers. No idea how they get a cows/run around or even above 400. Even including the maps and chars I tested last year, i was always in the 280-350 range. And I'm so glad I decided to go with java this year rather than fire sorc or something else. She definitely feels like the easiest character to do well with to me.
Considering skipping gcs since they slow me down a good bit (usually id them as i find them to avoid muling a ton). But how else am I gonna find lifers a la @Babyhell?
Last edited:
Google