The LLD Nursery

skiffcz

New member
May 14, 2020
16
20
3
@everyone Why do people go crazy for an eth Bonesnap that is'nt ATMA-bugged? (See page 1, @Pyrohemia 's post) I'm definitely missing something here 😀
I dont know, but that doesnt stop me from guessing - /p1 hell Baal has 1:12000 chance to drop eth bonesnap at 0MF (which noone does, but for the sake of an argument), while 1:860000 to drop Zod. Statistically, you will find more than 70+ eth bonesnaps from him before you will have a chance to eth-bug one, sooo ... erm ...
 

maxicek

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 24, 2019
232
154
43
@art_vandelay How about something like:
Iron Golem is permitted but must be made from items with a clvl30 or lower requirement.

Bonesnap for a charger?
 
Last edited:

entwilighter

Active member
Mar 23, 2020
71
106
33
Yeah it’s a weapon for a charger. Pyro’s has a near perfect 20% ED/14 max jewel in it. I wonder how much durability a hit removes? Charger is liable to 1-shot a lot of things. 😁

@maxicek Awesome work on the rule set! Thanks so much. When I get a minute I will add/change a couple of things.

@art_vandelay True! Sol runes would probably be pretty good for shutting down a Bowa. We should test it out.

I have been aiming to land AD on a 1.07 bow craft. It would be quite dangerous imo.

Re: 1.07 bases for robo bows - are plain 1.07 bow bases any better though? I thought it was just the ethereal bonus that is different.

I’m still a bit unsure about what to put in the rules re: ATMA bugging. I am inclined to respect @maxicek’s opinion on it, but I have no problem with it myself. So we could either ban it, not mention it, or mention that it’s allowed but discouraged.
 
Last edited:

art_vandelay

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2020
276
452
63
I personally don't have a problem with ATMA bugging, but I can see how it would be prohibitive to players with less runewealth.

@maxicek Yeah, sounds good! Actually since he has thorns should he be allowed at all?

@entwilighter I was actually thinking of giving a good magic Double Bow to Larzuk and use that as a 'base'. I just gambled a few in 1.07 since you can't shop for them apparently. But it went so slow that I changed plans. Instead I used up 110 rerolls in 1.10a to get a 4os bow that way. Here are the results:
Code:
Double Bow of Readiness
Double Bow
Two Hand Damage: 11 - 26
Durability: 34 of 36
Required Level: 25
Required Strength: 58
Required Dexterity: 73
Fingerprint: 0x4ddfa210
Item Level: 30
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+10% Increased Attack Speed 4 Sockets (0 used)

Massive Double Bow of Maiming
Double Bow
Two Hand Damage: 18 - 46
Durability: 19 of 36
Required Level: 25
Required Strength: 58
Required Dexterity: 73
Fingerprint: 0x3055dabd
Item Level: 30
Version: Expansion 1.10+
64% Enhanced Damage
+4 to Maximum Damage 4 Sockets (0 used)

Massive Double Bow of Slaying
Double Bow
Two Hand Damage: 17 - 47
Durability: 20 of 36
Required Level: 25
Required Strength: 58
Required Dexterity: 73
Fingerprint: 0x1b3081ee
Item Level: 30
Version: Expansion 1.10+
57% Enhanced Damage
+7 to Maximum Damage 4 Sockets (0 used)
That's as good as it got, sadly no AD trigger on any of them :cautious:

Btw how do you craft those bows in 1.07? The requirements must be super high for anything that didn't start out as a normal bow.

***

I also gave my first armor to Larzuk in 1.07, it hurts:
Code:
Prefix 1047 Light Plate of Stability
Defense: 104
Durability: 60 of 60
Required Strength: 41
Required Level: 13
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 66
Fingerprint: 0x33c1cb35
Fire Resist +30%
24% Faster Hit Recovery
Socketed (2: 0 used)
I guess I'll use it to level instead.
 

Jocular

Member
Jul 17, 2020
27
43
13
@art_vandelay

From what I remember reading, and doing, an LLD Bowa goes like this:

Equipment

  1. Helm:
    • Preferred: Rare Circlet w/: +1Amazon/30frw/2socket/life/mana/resists/life replen
    • Otherwise: Magic Circlet w/: +skills/30frw, socketed at Lazruk for 2 sockets
    • Poor: Peasant Crown
  2. Amulet:
    • Preferred: Crafted Blood Amulet w/: +1Amazon/10%FRW/life/mana/resists/str/dex/dmg/life replen
    • Otherwise: Rare Amulet w/: Same mods as the craft, just w/o the FRW
    • Poor: Magic Amulet w/: +1Amazon/+mana
  3. Bow:
    • Preferred: Rare bow w/: 150%ED/30%IAS/-30%req/stats/ctc% amp/sockets
    • Otherwise: Robo Ashwood bow w/: 2 Shaels, 1 Nef, 2 20%ED/+max jewels
    • Poor: Upped Rogues bow w/ Nef
  4. Armor:
    • Preferred: Rare Light Armor w/: 24%FHR/Life/Mana/Stats/2sockets (only worth it if the armor is truly godly and you have gg jewels)
    • Otherwise: Artisan's Light/Mage Plate of the Squid (3 sockets/80 life)
    • Poor: Ehhhh, there's no reason to waste jewels on anything less than an Artisan's of the Squid. Maybe a plain +15 maxer on a Twitchroe.
  5. Gloves:
    • Death's
  6. Belt::
    • Death's
  7. Boots: Bit of a toss up.
    • Sanders: More FRW, less stats
    • Cow Kings: Less FRW, more stats, BUT MDR bug because of fire damage
    • Rare boots w/: 30FRW/10FHR/mana/stats/resists
  8. Weapon Swap:
    • Javelin w/: usual weapon mods, y'know the drill. NOT eth, unless you have 10 extra rare godly javelins in your stash
    • Shield: Artisan's Kite Shield of Deflecting w/: Eth runes.
      • OR Artisan's Dragon Shield of Deflecting w/: Godly rare jewels w/ -req%/stats/damage taken to mana/+max damage
  9. Rings:
    • +stats/+mana/+life/resists/max dmg/min dmg/life replen
Strategy

Against melee it's pretty simple. Hit and run, keep your distance. You can use multi if they're beyond your sight range. Use the black pools to your advantage to trip up melee, especially against Charge Paladins. Swap to your jav/shield and walk when they close distance.

Against range...it's been so long.

Use your weapon swap to regen mana and throw javelins when you're low on mana. It's very important to get as much mana as possible from your circlet/amulet/rings. When I was dueling, mana pots were BM. I think it's best to keep it this way, mana pots cheapen dueling IMO. You don't have to think about strategy or the constraints of being LLD as much if you can run around with a full belt of super mana potions.


Stats/Skills

This is more nitty gritty, and I really can't remember well enough to give good advice here. Lightning Bolt and Jab are your Javelin skills. I think slvl 8 Multishot is good. As many points into Guided Arrow as possible. Passive skills...find some balance between Critical Strike and D/A/E. I think 60% critical strike is a good percentage to have.

Unfortunately, since we aren't really able to Glitch rush in single player, we only have 34 skill points to work with instead of 41. I don't think this hampers Bowazons as much as it does spell casters that rely on synergies, but it still makes it difficult to spread skill points across Muilti/D/A/E/Critical Strike. 1 point into penetrate is worth your while for your Multishot if you have a few +skills.

As for stats, I think around 600-800 life is pretty good, with the rest into Dexterity. If you have poor charms, I think it's more important to pump Dex instead of Vit and sit around 600-650 health. ~250-300 mana is enough for your average duel, as long as you make sure to swap to your jav/shield to regen mana between shots.


Charms

Your main objective is to attain between 100-120 FRW. Depending on boots/amulet/helm, you've already gained between 30-80FRW. It's more important than +max damage charms, it's more important than life/mana charms. After you've reached your desired FRW, split up the rest with damage, life, resists, and mana, depending on what you need. As with all LLD, charms are the backbone of your build.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: art_vandelay

maxicek

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 24, 2019
232
154
43
What is the max life suffix for lvl30? I have shopped some armour in 1.07, One has 77 life with a rlvl 30 - Does this change? I seem to recall 60 being the maximum for lvl 30?
 

art_vandelay

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2020
276
452
63
@maxicek No clue whether it changes when you forward, although ATMA is certainly very unreliable about rlvl. In modern it goes like this:
ArmorShieldHelm
Max. Life at clvl 30 or below802020
Very disappointing for Shields and Helms.

@Jocular From that setup it looks like you go for 9fpa there? I feel like that only works out best if you don't have tons of max damage charms from 1.07 available and that each bit of max damage makes 8fpa more and more attractive. It's also cheaper to go 4xShael+Nef incidentally.

Thanks for that extensive write-up, I already got her to lvl 29 and I'm enjoying the theorycrafting :D

***

Since this Bowazon seems to be already on the more expensive side I also want to start and make a few other characters. Fire Ball seems to be a nobrainer but I'd also like a Paladin. Is FoH at all viable? I never really use that skill much (except AT) but if it doesn't work here I can still try it in HLD.

I've thought about using the three gem recipes to reroll scepters/orbs/wands for LLD, but are they even the best items in their slot? Spirit looks like fierce competition to each of those but a +4 BH Scepter would be godly as well I figure, just like a +4 FB Orb. (With astronomic odds of course!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: maxicek

maxicek

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 24, 2019
232
154
43
Thanks @art_vandelay - More shopping required then.

Mak a FoH / Smite Palading for HLD (Templar Vindicator) - No idea about LLD though
 

Jamie

Member
May 25, 2020
43
39
18
Boy is it exciting to see LLD alive on SP! I've been saving and searching for all sorts of various dueling categories for decades. I didn't do a firm read of the entire thread yet, but it looked to be almost all level 30. I am curious if there are people who are into the different VLLDs/LLDs between level 9 and 30, I know there are variations such as 9,12,15,18,21 and others depending on characters and what not, and even some of the MLDs that happen in the 40s and 50s. I don't know how the few play on here, but I know many leagues and veteran groups will use different level maxes for different types of characters in the same dueling level league. IE: one character type might be maxed at 18 or 29 and another might be allowed to level to 19 or 30 in the same dueling league, due to balancing them out.

I haven't had a chance to really dig into the rules of how it is done in the MP version of the SP Forum that has been around! I have been saving the various level groups for VLLD, LLD and MLD for years now! I have a whole stash of 840 items where I put gear for twinking, but as I don't really like twinking characters during playthroughs, it is virtually all items that are useful in the 1-30 range. Although it does have some things like charms, jewelry and jewels, almost all of my useful and valuable charms, jewelry and jewels throughout ALL levels, are in a completely separate folder that has thousands of items in the stash.

On top of both of those stashes, I have a stash where I put all of the new Unid Uniques/Sets I find that I am not using, my high runes and all of the items that spawn mods that are so good that they deserve to be in their own folder, items that I consider to be worthy of being separate from my thousands and thousands of other items in character stash folders and specifically named folders for certain classes, item types, unique/sets/rares/jewerly/etc. I have some good VLLD to MLD items in the stash set aside for extremely lucky finds. That and I have a stash with almost 1,000 socketables, many of them being 2-4 socket items with very useful stats and item types for VLLD-MLD characters and their skills. Outside of those socketables, I have tons of class specific socketables, some for VLLD-MLD that I placed in folders meant for Paladin, Assassin, Sorceress, Barbarian, Amazon and Druid usage instead of in the pure socketables folder.... lol... I am very unorganized with my ATMA. I didn't mention Necromancer, because I can't remember any really good VLLD-MLD Necromancer gear. But I could very well be completely inaccurate here, as I have years of saving every little thing that I thought could have any sort of niche use for something like a low level dueler, a very spell specific build, builds that are based around strange themes like pure "attacker takes damage" or a character with all "Nirvana" items. I just save tons and tons and tons of things.

I'd love to get a certain class of low level dueler around, which I've always had on my mind, and also have tons of low level items saved incase anyone is looking for some super specific items for their different duelers in the lower level ranges. I need to read through the thread still :p
 

entwilighter

Active member
Mar 23, 2020
71
106
33
Since this Bowazon seems to be already on the more expensive side I also want to start and make a few other characters. Fire Ball seems to be a nobrainer but I'd also like a Paladin. Is FoH at all viable? I never really use that skill much (except AT) but if it doesn't work here I can still try it in HLD.

I've thought about using the three gem recipes to reroll scepters/orbs/wands for LLD, but are they even the best items in their slot? Spirit looks like fierce competition to each of those but a +4 BH Scepter would be godly as well I figure, just like a +4 FB Orb. (With astronomic odds of course!)
Pure FoH should be viable, FoH/Hammer is a thing. Pure Hammerdin is good too. I don't know much about Paladins, but cdm has made a few.

The three gem recipe is cool. I have been rolling Cloudy Spheres and I remember doing some Hand Scythes with it. Cloudy Sphere is the only orb which has both a low enough rlvl to be usable in LLD, and a high enough magic level to get +2 skill tree mods at ilvl 25+, so I think it's a juicy target. :LOL:
 

Delsy

New member
Jul 4, 2020
3
4
3
Count me in for lvl 30. Bar the Ashwood bow, I think I have the items to put together a bowazon.

Two thoughts regarding the rules:

Replenish Life - cap it at 25, as in the rules on page 1. I'm strictly against massing replenish. It promotes defensive/camping style of play. The fact that we play mostly FFA is another factor. We want quick matches, not long dragging reple wars. 25 is plenty for anyone to use their favourite gear and it's already more than enough.

Atma bug - please NO!