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Vessel of Hatred

SPF Reform Proposals and Discussion

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It is baffling, fearedbliss, that you, being virtually anonymous, are so engaged in changing the rules. I don't even know what kind of player you are. Bar a few odd posts, I don't see you participating in the Mats/Pats, Item Finds, 99ers, grails, tourneys, pvp and other popular topics. It should't even be your business.

Some of your proposals are absolutely unnecessary. Arguing for ilvl and map seeds, because it's inconvenient for you to use GoMule/ATMA. Are you serious? Are you so full of yourself to not see how ridiculous this is?

Banning bugged items and HC to SC. You are free to play without these methods. Is it in your eye? Learn to compromise.

I don't see the necessity of your proposals.
 
@Delsy I don't really understand that position to be frank. I am participating in tournaments, IFT, and since you mentioned 99ers, I am even currently pushing from 98 to 99 with an untwinked character. Yet it seems abstruse to me to suggest that only people who actively do stuff like all the time should be the only ones whose opinions matter. In fact, I can't recall seeing you around for stuff like that. That doesn't mean you are not entitled to state your opinion.

On the contrary I think you absolutely should, and again please feel encouraged to participate also in the aforementioned survey. All of the points of view that you just shared here are perfectly reflected in the different answering possibilities there. But please don't disallow proposals or discussions based on level of involvement in different aspects of the community. The rules are the business of anyone who is involved here in some way or the other. :)
 
Historically the reason PlugY was not allowed to be mentioned was that it was thought it proliferated it’s use. People see the name, Google it, “oh I can hack my character,” etc.

The stance of the forum should remain that if you want to play with us, you only use ATMA / GoMule. Anyway I don’t see how you can beat the search and organisation features of GoMule in an in game program, especially for those of us with items accumulated over many years.

Mentioning PlugY in the sentence “Sorry we don’t use PlugY here, we use ATMA GoMule” should be fine though.

@Kitteh got the Hammerdin picture from @Gripphon I think - he always used to post it in the PvP Week threads. Who made the original I don’t know. Maybe it is @frozzzen ?
 
I feel like 1.14 runs slightly faster regarding load / save times and act transitions.

Since I'm already commenting.. I'm no SPF old timer, but I've been around for a decade. I've joined after lurking here, and prior to that at the amazon basin, for a few years. I usually disappear for years before eventually coming back.

The AB and SPF taught me that having your way (cheating) in games doesn't make sense. It's all about beating the game and achieving your goals within the set rules - it's part of the challenge. I liked this mentality very much, it’s why I stayed here. However, the other part of me is a software developer. Making the user experience smooth is a very important aspect of my job, therefore I'm very supportive of some of the mods (glide wrapper, RRM, muling) created for DII. At times, it’s difficult to draw the line where user experience improvements turn into having your way by excessive modding. I believe that's why we're having this discussion.

I'll add my responses to the survey thread, but I'd like to comment seeds with a definitive "no". It just feels.. dirty. And from the MFO aspect, once you nail the character's mechanics and perfect the most efficient route what's left is the map seed. It's up to me to re-roll and grind for a better map, just as it is grinding for the items, and I expect it to be like that for everyone else. The difference in run times between a good, bad, and a perfect map can be pretty dramatic.

Edit: typo
 
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Albatross said:
I'll add my responses to the survey thread, but I'd like to comment seeds with a definitive "no". I just feels.. dirty. And from the MFO aspect, once you nail the character's mechanics and perfect the most efficient route what's left is the map seed. It's up to me to re-roll and grind for a better map, just as it is grinding for the items, and I expect it to be like that for everyone else. The difference in run times between a good, bad, and a perfect map can be pretty dramatic.
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And there should always be that ever present risk of accidentally clicking on NM...
 
maxicek said:
And there should always be that ever present risk of accidentally clicking on NM...
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Yeah, though you can just force-quit the game while in NM by terminal command and keep the Hell map that way. From what I can tell most people do that.

As I've said in the survey thread, IMO if using seeds only as a GoMule replacement (for whatever reason you don't use GoMule) I'd be fine with that. Any other use - big no for me as well.
 
@ffs What about the situation I mentioned where a friend wants to play with you for an hour and then after that you will return back to regular SP activities? If you had a good map, would you pick the map over your friend? Seems unfair.
 
fearedbliss said:
@ffs What about the situation I mentioned where a friend wants to play with you for an hour and then after that you will return back to regular SP activities? If you had a good map, would you pick the map over your friend? Seems unfair.
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You would decide between the map and the friend. Personally, I'd keep the map :rolleyes:

Also, @maxicek, I've only done that like, a few hundred times at most...
 
fearedbliss said:
@ffs What about the situation I mentioned where a friend wants to play with you for an hour and then after that you will return back to regular SP activities? If you had a good map, would you pick the map over your friend? Seems unfair.
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A dedicated MF character. It's not like they need to be level 90+ to be effective. You can start doing AT runs at level 70.
 
@Albatross @Kitteh That doesn't seem right. Especially when one of my goals is to rebuild the SPFs Multiplayer side. That's why my original list has things related to allowing trading for many versions again, and also this recovering Map seed stuff. The current policies are focused on single player players that don't multiplay. For the people who do play multiplayer, those policies are not right and they discourage multiplayer use, basically exactly what @Kitteh said. It's mest up that I can't play with my friend on the character I've been playing when I want to use that character because I want to keep my map.

@Albatross Even if I had a dedicated char, I would still lose my map because I don't use GoMule and nobody isn't going to force me to use it. If anything people should be forced not to use GoMule since the conservative policy of the SPF is that less is more. It doesn't make sense that some want to force a player to use GoMule when at the same time they want to force others to not use other stuff. Not saying you said this @Albatross, but other people.
 
Kitteh said:
You would decide between the map and the friend. Personally, I'd keep the map :rolleyes:
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This. :D

How many maps do you need to keep anyways that are really that valuable? For me it's (1) Pits (2) Travincal (3) AT. For the rest, I couldn't care less about that particular advantage of using GoMule. Even LK you can get a really good map very quickly. So, for me that would be three characters (or if you want to improve one of these, maybe a couple more) that you cannot use for MPing -- no big deal IMO.

EDIT: I feel it's appropriate to add though that it's not like people didn't use seeds for testing purposes. E.g. @Gripphon has done so with his perfect/total jackpot Travincal map he had on his Blizzy, to find out how Blizzy efficiency compares to Barb or other classes (PNec, Zealot...) under ideal circumstances. I actually remember a funny vid where he drops a Cham rune found on such a test run while recording and S&Es with it on the ground... because it was not found on the specific character's "real" map. But that's only testing and very different from deliberate use.
 
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@fearedbliss

From what I can see, the lot of the people are 'fine' with map seed usage solely for muling purposes. I would still greatly prefer GoMule over any self-muling in game for several reasons, but each to his own.

Also, +1 for choosing between playing MP versus keeping a map.
I don't believe people wanting to keep a certain map seed for a certain character is what's keeping them from playing MP in general. And iirc, most people that do play MP have a specific char just for MPing anyways.
 
I don’t see any reason to use the seed command under any circumstances. You lost your map? Get over it, roll a new one. I had to do this once mid MFO.

If the seed means that much to you, use GoMule. If GoMule is too much of a hack, then the seed issue is worse.
 
@maxicek I'm not using GoMule. You should respect my decision to not use a third party program to mule.

How is a seed worse? If the seed is used correctly it is better than GoMule since it is a native feature developed by Blizzard themselves. Not sure what mental gymnastics you are going through to conclude that a third party application is more legit than proper usage of a native feature.
 
maxicek said:
I don’t see any reason to use the seed command under any circumstances. You lost your map? Get over it, roll a new one. I had to do this once mid MFO.

If the seed means that much to you, use GoMule. If GoMule is too much of a hack, then the seed issue is worse.
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I agree with this to a certain extent. While I am currently for allowing mapseed for self-multing purposes, that is heavily due to the small minority that 'cannot' - including both technical and self restrictions - run GoMule/ATMA.
 
There is no self restriction that can logically prevent you using GoMule but allow you to read the seed with another program for muling purposes.

GoMule is also Java so works on all platforms, so I see no technical argument either.
 
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