The Untwinked Level 99 Progress Thread, The Saviours of Sanctuary Rise Anew

[ffs]

@Tears85 heh, some interesting choices indeed.. I was surprised the Ber didn’t go towards Enigma and Tal's mask is only interim gear for sure. Both high runes and socket quests are important resources for untwinked 99ers. In particular Enigma is the key item IMO. Some people here have tried or planned to make it without teleport, but none of them succeeded.

Also not sure I understand your build/target approach? The usual Barb route is WW at Baal/waves until 98 and then Conc Nihl runs for 98-99. Baal runs with WW are slow in comparison to other chars... but it’s the best option for Barb, everything else is much slower. 98-99 on the other hand is fast with Conc build.

 

[Tears85]

I have to explain some I assume! I never intended on running LK!

Tears85 wrote: "Yeah I´m afraid that would be fastest to farm Eni in LK before anything else...dunno if I can do that tho. MB farm a LO and go from there until 1 BER missing and not 3! :F However I was also wondering about XPing from say 96-98.....I really don´t like Baalrunz. I was hoping I could do CS Runz as Zerker?"

The issue is, that I wanted to do UT char for a long time, but I was always like....ok, so I´ll have to farm LK for 3 weeks, I just won´t do it! So I finally settled for doing a Barb (Mainly Barb cause I love the idea of CS Runz with him and I hate Baalrunz cause I once leeched a 99 tank with Conv and endlessly overstacked Res and TG and Gaze to 99 doing baalrunz! And I´m not skilled enough for HC Sorc....or at least not first try Sorc!) So I admire u guys for starting out with LK say for 4 weeks than couple of days bases and than do meph until u got every item........ that´s just not for me.....at least not with that char!

Added to that I´ve checked for Runedrop porpablities, and this time I´m running horrible on them. With 300 Runedrops one should have JAH and BER! I´m easy above that!

To Tals Mask: Since I wanted to do CS Runz AndyFace was of the table as one does need the FireRes. Since I really wouldn´t have gone with a non eth Reaper (I know it´s still strongest if one doesn´t be retared) I figured Tal´s Mask best! IMHO Mask > Gaze all the way! Yet when I dropped the eth Reaper´s I decided nvm! I figured mb Faith Bow with Forty and Tal´s Mask endgame as Zerker!

Than the Bow: That was when I first used Frenzy and I totally loved Frenzy. Sicne I was not planning on MIght Forty compared to Eni better than usually. Also I was very bournd out at that moment and the Bow kept me going. Not to mention that I didn´t have non eth Reaper´s. Whilst using that Bow I found a eth Reapers which I value way higher than the missing BER!

The thing with diablo II is that it´s a game after all. Added to that I´m not in a situation where I have to maximize my gaming time cause it´s such a pressures ressource! And after all on Sept 11th I was lvl28 and I got literally every unique need besided Arreats, a ZOD and motivation up again as I wanna proof u can do it this way aswell.

That being said, even if I wouldn´t have made the Bow I wouldn´t have Eni by now....if I´ll have to do 4k LK Runz just to get the missing BER back I´ll mb write some different! xD

I´m using WW at the moment, but I really wanna do Frenzy or Zerker later. But guess I can switch all the time!

 

[Luhkoh]

@Tears85 Why do you think that jah and ber should be every 300 rune drops? Ber OR Jah is about 1 in 700 rune drops. And that's much much more common than ber AND jah.

 

[Tears85]

@Luhkoh Well cause I googled it. Happens very often that every information is wrong and yours is correct (Countess Runz for example!)! MB my math was just off! Could u plz link the information or send me a PM?

 

[Kinkara]

Under Luhkoh's message you can see "Runefinding Calculator". I think I have also seen that 100 runes = 1 high rune average somewhere (maybe Reddit or JSP), but I think that was just an observation based on how lucky the person saying that was.

 

[Luhkoh]

I used the "Runes from Runes17 TC" chart on the "cows" tab in my runefinding calculator (link is in signature) to find that answer. Its not that easy a calc to do if starting from scratch, and you will have to dig into the treasureclassex.txt file if you want to do the calc. If you want to learn more about that, the "item generation tutorial" is the place to start. But also if you just farm a lot of runes, it will be clear that you don't get a ber and jah every 300.

But anyways it will be very tough to prove these methods work, because it will likely take a very long time to get the gear you need to push to high levels. Level 97 is about halfway there, and the more fun half is the first half. The runners here don't do weeks of walking LK because they enjoy it after all .

But best of luck and I hope it goes well. Many many things can work if you play long enough, but I just want to help explain why it will likely be a lot tougher/slower than you might hope.

EDIT: thanks @Kinkara for linking my calculator ^^.

 

[Tears85]

Well it´s not like I´m exclusivly sticking to this method..... if I´ll be one BER down and every chest can be a BER I might go for it! Also I plan on doin some Travi! But w/e my strategy was based on false data!

And ofc I allrdy started a Sin, but than I felt the eth reaper´s easy making up for 15@ in the Gulli so w/e!

 

[Babyhell]

Well at work I can't use the spreadsheets, but doing some quick check based upon rune odds, it even seems that if I got it right, some higher runes are less rare than lower ones: Jah vs Ber, Sur vs Lo, etc until the Pul/Lem couple where things are back in order.

Edit: I made it wrong, forget about it!
Edit2: it seems finally right after a small correction in my excel table...well I'll check with the calculator later.

 

[Tears85]

That´s correct!

€: And one last topic: I regret leeching my 99 HC to 99 cause it was totally not worth the "achievment" and I decided never again play D2 if u don´t have fun!

 

[Jpy]

Genuine question, is starting in Classic for this frowned upon by this community?

e: ex: PX run on classic to Hell Duriel kill then converting

 

[Ohomemgrande]

I'm almost 2800 LK runs in. I have 4 Sur runes and 0 Ber. Maybe on the next run I get to stop. I also have enough for a CTA and I think also a Delirium (might have to cube up from Fal to get that last Ist).

 

[Tears85]

OK in all honesty guys: Would u start all over cause of the Tal´s Mask?
And what would u value higher: A socket for a Gulli or a eth Reapers over a non eth one?

If I was to start all over I´d go Asn or mb Rip a Sorc!

 

[Luhkoh]

@Jpy I looked a bit into this too a while back. Was considering starting a twinked hdin 99er and starting him in classic to save nm ancients. As far as I can tell, it's definitely not against the forum rules. Used to be a common practice for hellforge rushing. I don't think anyone in this thread has gone that route, but haven't heard anything negative about it. And ofc its not against the rules listed in the parent post of this thread.

I don't think @Kitteh is currently active, but would love to hear their thoughts if still around. @PhineasB do you have any knowledge of past thoughts on this or current thoughts on it?

As for my single data point, I see nothing wrong with it and think its a really cool strat. Without trying to get into any sort of generalized debating, I personally think that anything you can do within the vanilla game window seems very fair play.

@Tears85 nah just keep playing and moving forward unless/until you decide to switch projects/characters. Restte's ut99 barb basically used no socket quests till after 99ing.

 

[ResTTe]

@Jpy I don't think there is a rule that says you can't make a classic char. It will be kinda weird though and maybe someone can even call it unfair? Wondering why nobody has ever done this...

btw. We had some UT99 speedrun discussion with @Luhkoh today and we realized you can go for something like 200 hours if you are lucky. You would basically have to get all the gear you need on the way. Early CS grind without CTA sounds terrible.

 

[Jpy]

Sub 200 is doable for Sorc, I said this and mentioned the classic strat a while ago.

e: furthermore on the note of Paladin vs Sorceress, my own notes were showing some ~6m/hour was very approachable with nothing special at all (no Fathom, limited GCs) for 97-98 while @ffs was posting right under 7m/hour for P8/P7 for the same stretch. Could push towards the same efficiency on Sorc with more aggressive strats for sure and I don’t think the other parts (Normal - Hell whether classic or expansion, LK (skip it entirely lol, ~30 hour save), AT or Pit budget runs, the stretch of CS runs where 2 seal shine prior to 97-98) favor Paladin

 

[PhineasB]

@Jpy I looked a bit into this too a while back. Was considering starting a twinked hdin 99er and starting him in classic to save nm ancients. As far as I can tell, it's definitely not against the forum rules. Used to be a common practice for hellforge rushing. I don't think anyone in this thread has gone that route, but haven't heard anything negative about it. And ofc its not against the rules listed in the parent post of this thread.

I don't think @Kitteh is currently active, but would love to hear their thoughts if still around. @PhineasB do you have any knowledge of past thoughts on this or current thoughts on it?

As for my single data point, I see nothing wrong with it and think its a really cool strat. Without trying to get into any sort of generalized debating, I personally think that anything you can do within the vanilla game window seems very fair play.

@Tears85 nah just keep playing and moving forward unless/until you decide to switch projects/characters. Restte's ut99 barb basically used no socket quests till after 99ing.

Starting in Classic is not much different than self-MPing to save NM Ancients, which is briefly mentioned in the 99er compendium, and was noted by Corrupted.

I actually thought about starting in Classic with one of the later 99ers to bank the 20M, but ended up going with Tourney characters instead. I dont see any issue, and untwinked is untwinked in my book I’m not sure, however, if the ~6 hours saved are given back in slower progress in Classic, as I don’t know what’s different from expansion.

 

[Jpy]

@PhineasB 2-5 hours for Hell Duriel, probably level 45-50 from what I’ve gathered. I’ve been theory crafting both options and they’re quite close.

 

[Luhkoh]

Starting in Classic is not much different than self-MPing to save NM Ancients

Well the latter is sort of mentioned in the rules of this thread ^^. But cool I do think it sounds cool/interesting. But also, independent of efficiency, I personally would gladly trade 6 hours of nihla for 10 hours of dinking around in classic .

 

[Gynli]

Hello,

Wow it's already nearing 1 year since my last update...

Unfortunately, I'm not back with a big process update; but rather to put myself into "Resting Heroes" for another while.
I still do take the bowa for a run or two every now and then; but it's a negligible progress when compared to the thousand of runs needed.
I'll be back when I either finish up OVG that i'm currently playing - or if my bowa reaches 25%.

Stay safe everyone, and happy D2-ing!
See you guys next year!


Hall of Fame

Forumite         Character        SC/HC  Class  Level  Exp   Date        E/S  S/U   Grail  Deaths  Hours
---------------  ---------------  -----  -----  -----  ----  ----------  ---  ----  -----  ------  -----
zticazzy         Perkele          SC     Barb   99     3.52  2016-07-12  No      -      -       -      -
Pb_pal           Eleanor          SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2016-11-09  No   3068    437       5      -
NanoMist         Izuna            SC     Sin    99     3.52  2016-12-25  No   5109    470       4    360
PhineasB         Mercy            SC     Sin    99     3.52  2017-05-23  Yes     -    475      11      -
PhineasB         Hiatus           SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2017-12-25  Yes     -    471      21      -
ffs              HelpYourself     SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2018-04-29  Yes     -    447       -      -
Neksja           Aura             SC     Pala   99     3.52  2018-08-08  Yes     -    481       -      -
Yng              Sophie           SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2018-08-26  Yes     -      -      10   <300
T72on1           Neverland        SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2018-10-21  Yes  lots    483      13    350+
Bewitch          itssoftcore      SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2018-11-07  Yes     -      -       -      -
PhineasB         Phaedrus         SC     Pala   99     3.52  2018-11-12  Yes     -    401      13      -
ffs              Ric              SC     Necro  99     3.52  2018-12-26  Yes     -    463       -      -
Bewitch          Mayhem           SC     Barb   99     3.52  2019-07-07  Yes     -      -       -      -
PhineasB         Pestilence       SC     Necro  99     3.52  2019-07-29  Yes     -      -       -      -
Pb_pal           Klaus            HC     Druid  99     3.52  2019-10-07  Yes     -    433      NA      -
ResTTe           ResTTe           SC     Barb   99     3.52  2019-12-14  Yes     -    465    many   ~320
ffs              Lucid            SC     Pala   99     3.52  2019-12-23  Yes     -    457       -   <250
PhineasB         Quinta           SC     Ama    99     3.52  2019-12-27  Yes     -    413       4      -
Luhkoh           Arkana           SC     Sorc   99     3.52  2020-03-01  Yes     -      -       -      -

Questing Heroes

Forumite         Character        SC/HC  Class  Level  Exp   Date        E/S  S/U   Grail  Deaths  Hours
---------------  ---------------  -----  -----  -----  ----  ----------  ---  ----  -----  ------  -----
Kinkara          Bobo             SC     Barb   98.7   3.43  2020-09-15  Yes     -      -       -      -
PhineasB         Death            SC     Barb   98     3.22  2020-09-10  No      -      -       2      -
Bewitch          Mindcrime        HC     Pala   97     2.96  2019-11-19  Yes     -      -       -      -
MercMan          Big_Chill        SC     Sorc   97     2.96  2020-09-06  Yes     -      -       -      -
Pb_pal           Stevesy          HC     Barb   96.5   2.84  2020-04-09  Yes     -      -      NA      -
drmalawi         TheCanMan        SC     Pala   96     2.76  2020-01-19  Yes     -      -     Yes      -
D30D0R3          Fragile          HC     Sorc   94     2.46  2020-01-18  No      -      -       -    109
smloeffelholz    ArbeitsPferd     SC     Sorc   94     2.29  2020-09-10  Yes     -      -       -      -
Arctodus         Lubotor          SC     Barb   94     2.28  2020-02-16  Yes     -      -      16      -
PhineasB         Septimus         SC     Druid  94     2.28  2020-06-25  Yes     -      -       0      -
ResTTe           Lyssandra        SC     Sorc   94     2.28  2020-09-28  Yes     -    357    many    ~55
Trapin'          ceegee           SC     Pala   93     2.17  2020-01-01  No      -      -       -      -
jjscud           Ragnarok         SC     Pala   92     1.97  2019-12-28  No      -      -      36   lots
jonnyphive       Shaltara         SC     Sorc   91     ??    2020-03-13  Yes     -      -     Yes      -
Tears85          EoEF_Untwinked   HC     Barb   90     1.63  2020-09-23
Hutton           Jyn              HC     Sin    89           2020-05-24  Yes     -      -       -      -
TwentyMuleTeam   Chore            SC     Sin    88     ?.??  2020-01-02  Yes     -      -       -      -
Pax1990          Anger            SC     Barb   88     0.00  2020-10-06   -      -      -       -      -
Babyhell         Frida            HC     Ama    85     ?.??  2020-06-26  Yes     -      -       0      -
Vildecor         Zinerva          SC     Ama    80     0.70  2020-04-24  Yes   309    195       0      -
TwentyMuleTeam   Knope            SC     Sorc   76     0.00  2020-01-02  Yes     -      -       -      -
kstuart          Nena             SC     Sorc   39     0.02  2020-04-15  Yes     -      -       -      -
Babyhell         Athena           SC     Sorc   30     0     2020-09-04  Yes     0      -       -      -
Babyhell         Minerva          SC     Zon    30     0     2020-09-04  Yes     0      -       -      -

Resting Heroes

Spoiler: Resting Heroes

Forumite         Character        SC/HC  Class  Level  Exp   Date        E/S  S/U   Grail  Deaths  Hours
---------------  ---------------  -----  -----  -----  ----  ----------  ---  ----  -----  ------  -----
Buckcrazy        Zic              HC     Sorc   98.5   3.38  2019-07-22  Yes     -      -      NA   lots
Gynli            Amazon           SC     Ama    98     3.22  2019-11-11  Yes     -      -       -      -
Bewitch          Necronomicon     SC     Necro  97     3.07  2019-07-09  Yes     -      -       -      -
hasuprotoss      Reina            SC     Sorc   97     2.96  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes  1751    384       -      -
darkstarhub      Neptune          SC     Sorc   97     2.96  2018-07-23  Yes     -    470       -      -
Ashenshugar      Natur            SC     Druid  97     2.96  2018-11-20  Yes  2529      -       -      -
Me2Nik           Fugu             HC     Ama    96     2.72  2019-02-03  Yes  Lots      -       -      -
Tarantella       Tarasha          HC     Sorc   96     2.72  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
Grim             Furious_Blonde   SC     Ama    96     2.72  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
teddeeboy        Atheyanore       SC     Sorc   95     2.52  2019-02-03  Yes  300+      -       8   many
Chaostar         Prairie          SC     Sorc   95     2.49  2019-06-15  Yes     -    384      25      -
CrustyRusty      Space_Oddity     SC     Ama    95     2.49  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
XyleneCyanol     Fishie           HC     Sorc   95     2.49  YYYY-MM-DD  No      -      -       -      -
Quinneczech      Blackwell        HC     Barb   95     2.49  2019-04-01  -       -      -      NA      -
Hutton           Terrahork        HC     Barb   95     0.00  2019-04-24  Yes     -      -      NA      -
ThomasJohnsen    xInTheBuffx      HC     Sorc   95     2.49  2017-03-31  Yes     -      -       -      -
NamelessPenguin  Rockatansky      SC     Barb   95     2.49  2017-12-14  Yes     -      -       -      -
Dezrok           Salome           SC     Sorc   95     2.49  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes   792    318       -      -
sanguillen       GordonChen-UT    HC     Necro  93     2.14  2019-02-27  Yes     -      -      NA      -
Reyz             Qty              SC     Sorc   93     2.10  YYYY-MM-DD  No      -      -       -      -
Zenigma          Ayura            SC     Barb   93     2.12  2018-09-08  No      -      -       -      -
T72on1           TooMuchEnergy    SC     Sorc   93     2.10  2019-07-19  Yes   267    181      12     47.5
LongingForDeath  VelvetSky        SC     Sorc   93     2.10  2019-12-19  Yes     -    396      12      -
Smittyphi        TheLongRun       SC     Sorc   93     2.09  2019-11-06  Yes    30      -     Yes      -
Potent           Challenge(CL)    SC     Sorc   92     1.96  2018-07-30  no      -      -       -      -
liquid_mage      zDadColdSorc     SC     Sorc   91     1.89  2019-02-04  Yes     -    223       -      -
Tatterson        Titaani          SC     Barb   91     1.84  2018-11-27  Yes     -      -       -      -
Zenigma          Gnosis           SC     Druid  91     1.79  2018-04-26  No      -      -       -      -
OldSoldier       Battleforge      HC     Pala   91     1.76  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -    236       -      -
kyndig           DrearyAura       HC     Sorc   91     1.76  2018-02-20  Yes     -      -       -      -
tokerdin         tokeress         SC     Sorc   91     1.76  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
sir_cyclops      devi             SC     Sin    91     ?.??  2019-02-27  Yes     -      -       -      -
Neksja           Aurora           SC     Sorc   90     1.70  2018-09-08  Yes     -    215       -      -
AlexTheNextOne   Orion            SC     Pala   90     1.62  2018-07-22  Yes     -      -       -      -
Southpaw         Njord            SC     Druid  90     1.62  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
Qwernt           CanbeOnlyBlizz   SC     Sorc   90     1.62  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       ?      ?
MercMan          Este             SC     Ama    90     1.62  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes  1212    278       2      ?
Zarfen           Stamina          SC     Sorc   90      ??   2019-12-08  Yes     -      -     Yes      -
Gynli            Assassin         SC     Assa   89     1.50  2019-11-11  Yes     -      -       -      -
Lynchgrinch      Tattersail       SC     Sorc   89     1.48  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -    321       ?      ?
Jocular          BareBear_Where   HC     Druid  **     1.47  2019-05-20  ???     -      -      NA      -
LiquidClear      Sally            SC     Sin    **     1.36  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes   225      -       1      -
MizzouFTW        Mariah           SC     Sin    **     1.36  2019-01-28  Yes     -     -        -      -
BasicBhoy        Belgarath        HC     Druid  **     1.36  2019-01-29  Yes     -      -       -      -
Neksja           Turirao          SC     Druid  87     1.25  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes   191    124       5      -
T72on1           Grapelike        SC     Barb   87     1.25  2019-01-24  Yes    98     82      13     37
Gladstone        Socrates         HC     Druid  86     1.15  YYYY-MM-DD  -       -      -       -      -
klonki           Dualizt_Ann      SC     Sorc   86     1.14  2019-05-26  Yes     -     37       1     15+
Burgomaster3     Hastur           SC     Druid  86     1.14  2018-07-02  Yes     -      -       -      -
sanguillen       DirkStruan-UT    HC     Pala   85     1.10  2018-12-19  Yes     -      -      NA      -
nMEKn            Summon           SC     Nec    85     1.07  2019-05-17  Yes     -      -       4      -
hackedagainanda  Hugo             HC     Necro  85     1.05  2017-12-17  Yes     -      -       -      -
Bobbo            Barbamel         HC     Barb   84     1.01  2019-01-11  Yes     -      -      NA      -
nepeta           finistere        SC     Sin    84     1.14  2019-01-04  ?       -      -       1      4
DaveW            Long_Term        SC     Sorc   84     0.97  2018-05-02  Yes Heaps      -    Lots     30+
Naturallog       Athos            HC     Barb   84     0.96  YYYY-MM-DD  No    159    105       0      -
Kitteh           Gwynt            HC     Druid  83           2018-10-28  Yes     -      -      NA      -
Xul's Gull       Xul              HC     Necro  81     0.74  2018-03-26  No      -      -      NA      -
Qwernt           AmaAgainstAll    SC     Sorc   81     0.74  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
Gambit           Mallenroh        SC     Sorc   81     0.74  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     0      0       0      0
aarrgus          Acala            SC     Barb   80     0.68  2017-12-30  Yes     -      -       5      -
ioupainmax       Durnik           SC     Pala   79     0.63  2018-06-28  Yes   177    111       0      -
Jean Avila       SpeedAdict       SC     Ama    77     0.52  YYYY-MM-DD  No      -      -       -     50
MizzouFTW        NoDeathNoGlory   SC     Sorc   77     0.00  2019-12-12  Yes     -      -       -      -
logoutzero       Digimon          HC     Necro  76     0.48  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes    85     65       0      -
Gripphon         Ryu              SC     Sorc   76     0.48  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       ?     13
Darke Rahl       Bells            HC     Ama    74     0.40  YYYY-MM-DD  No     19      -       0      -
Smittyphi        SliceNDice       SC     Sin    70     0.30  2018-03-27  Yes    15      -       6      -
Irenicus_Mfs     Morgana          HC     Sorc   69     0.26  2018-12-09  Yes     -      -      NA     14+
Xul's Gull       Araphel          HC     Necro  60     0.12  2017-12-21  No      -      -       -      -
Burton Roberts   Arizona          SC     Ama    56     0.08  2018-06-12  No      -      -      15     38
Sleepybear123    Rob_theBarb      HC     Barb   50     0.05  2018-01-06  Yes     -      -       -     10
RIP              Sucell           HC     Druid  47     0.03  2018-12-08  Yes     -     20       -      -
Pijus            AGoodBoy         HC     Druid  45     0.00  2018-05-29  Yes     -      -      NA      -
Grape            Coke             SC     Barb   42     0.00  2018-12-06   ?     14     14       0      -
Izzak            Bones            SC     Necro  42     0.**  2019-01-10   -      -      -       1      -
TrU              Henryk           SC     Barb   41     0.02  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -      22     12
Gambit           Colossus         SC     Pala   39     0.02  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     0      0       0      0
Smancer          Smancer          SC     Necro  26     0.00  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     1      -       -      -
RIP              Espada           HC     Necro  24     0.00  2018-06-01  Yes     -     13       -      -
BKC              FearsomeFreddie  SC     Necro  23     0.00  YYYY-MM-DD  Yes     -      -       -      -
Ergroilnin       Erilinda         HC     Sorc   20     0.00  YYYY-MM-DD  No      -      -       -      -
DaveHutt         Alice            SC     Ama    13     0.00  2018-05-18  Yes     -      -       1      -
Lord Molybdenum  Ilucuthen        SC     Sin    13     0.??  2019-09-14  No      -      -       -      -
FireNice         Isern            SC     Zon    12     0     2019-12-04  Yes     0      -       -      -
dkn              Morgoth          SC     Barb   01     0.00  2019-10-04  Yes     -      -       0      0
MizzouFTW        Hocus            HC     Sorc   01     0.00  2018-10-28  Yes     -      -      NA      -

The Fallen

Spoiler: The Fallen

Forumite         Character        SC/HC  Class  Level  Exp   Date        E/S  S/U   Grail  Deaths  Hours
---------------  ---------------  -----  -----  -----  ----  ----------  ---  ----  -----  ------  -----
Vildecor         Trina            SC     Ama    98     3.22  2020-03-20  Yes     -    443      17      -
1have2much3time  Vagabond         HC     Necro  95     2.66  2019-06-22  Yes     -      -       1      -
RIP              Kaira_II         HC     Sin    95     2.55  2018-09-06  Yes     -    399       -      -
T72on1           ShouldBeEasy     HC     Pala   95     2.52  2019-01-04  Yes  lots    320      NA    103
Babyhell         IpBanPrevales    SC     Sin    95.5   2.60  2019-09-22  Yes     -      -       9      -
Babyhell         BabyNinetyNiner  SC     Pala   91     ?.??  2019-08-02  Yes     -      -       3      -
Lord Molybdenum  Verisimilitude   SC     Ama    91     1.62  2018-06-02  No     98     77       3      -
Shuffleblast     Translocator     HC     Sorc   89     1.48  2019-11-23  Yes     -      -       1      -
Lord Molybdenum  Cruise_Control   SC     Necro  **     1.??  2018-06-02  No    128    101      22      -
Kitteh           Gwynt            HC     Druid  87     XXXX  2018-11-07  Yes     -      -       -      -
Bewitch          itsreal          HC     Sorc   87     1.xx  2018-04-24  No      -      -       -      -
MizzouFTW        Pure             HC     Necro  86     1.15  2018-01-10  Yes     -      -       1      -
Vildecor         Ivar             SC     Pala   84     1.02  2019-09-02  Yes     -    307       3      -
Vildecor         Celia            HC     Ama    84     0.99  2018-05-30  Yes   125     97       1      -
Lord Molybdenum  Essa             SC     Sorc   84     0.??  2018-06-02  No     20     19       5      -
Lord Molybdenum  But_Why          SC     Sin    81     0.74  YYYY-MM-DD  No     55     51      53      -
coju             NintyNine_orRiP  HC     Sorc   81     0.74  2016-04-07  Yes     -      -       1      -
RIP              Attila           HC     Barb   78     0.59  2018-09-26  Yes     -     73      no      -
TwentyMuleTeam   Valus            HC     Barb   76     0.48  2016-10-27  Yes     -      -       1      -
Pb_pal           Stevesy          HC     Pala   76     0.48  2017-06-19  Yes     -      -       1      -
Vildecor         Rikka            HC     Ama    76     0.00  2020-04-05  Yes    63     56       -      -
Shuffleblast     Translocator     HC     Sorc   67     0.00  2019-11-03  Yes     -      -       1      -
weezaard         Cypher           SC     Druid  66     0.00  2018-02-21  Yes     -      -      20+     -
Tenecabo         OldShatterhand   HC     Druid  49     0.04  2016-06-16  Yes     -      0       1      -
Pijus            Pyrestarter      HC     Druid  36     0.00  2018-05-21  Yes     -      -       1      -
coju             fB               HC     Sorc   29     0.00  2016-04-09  Yes     1      1       1      2
Kitteh           Verallus         HC     Druid  26     0.00  2016-03-25  No      -      -       1      -
logoutzero       Rolex            HC     Barb   21     0.00  2016-03-26  Yes     0      0       1      1

 

[ffs]

We should have a race between Paladin and Sorc entries.

I think it’s very close for untwinked, certainly Paladin can do sub 200h. The estimate of "sub 250" I gave for Lucid was just to be on the safe side after adding an error margin on every area/stage I ran (see write-up for estimates), because I couldn't keep track of exact numbers given run counter didn't work on Mac. Based on my actual notes on run times, he took 220h plus 7-8h lost from deaths. This also included some 15h of farming Shako + Arach at Meph because they just wouldn't drop, and more or less average luck in farming Enigma.

Probably for both characters the route should be straight to LK => Meph => CS => Nihl. Sorc can swap Meph and LK ofc but doesn't matter really. Sorc might need to beef up at Pindle or AT a bit but that's not significant time.

Pally needs a couple more hours to get to Hell LK and then it takes him longer because he needs to farm Enigma. But Sorc also needs at least decent charms, CtA and Hoto to manage CS on P8. So assuming no crazy RNG during playthrough, it probably involves a good bit of LK grind for both, and the difference is not the "full" Enigma farming time as Paladin farms those other items along the way.

As for CS, for 97-98 I think we've established that Paladin outperforms Sorc by doing P8/P7 Diablo runs. Both @PhineasB and I came to that conclusion with our Hammerdins.

Then for sub 98 we think of Blizzy as CS queen doing 2 seal runs – but the only scenario where I'd put my money on that is twinked. Untwinked it's not clear at all IMO.

First thing to consider is that even in a pretty much "perfect gear" scenario, Gripphon's Sorc and Pally numbers were very close: For 96-97 he estimated ~13 for Sorc and ~14.5 hours for Paladin (smaller difference for lower levels).

Then, my Pally was only ~10% slower than Gripp's fully decked out Hammerdin for 96-97, and that's really the thing for sub-98 overall: I don't think that ~10% gap between twinked Pally and untwinked Pally is the same for Sorc. In fact untwinked Sorc missing full skiller inventory and DFathom has a major impact on her performance because every + skill level and +CSD counts. For Paladin on the other hand it's whatever once he has his runewords – he doesn't rely on skillers really, their impact is much lower for him than it is for Sorc. Then there's Fathom which cannot be counted on untwinked, and this item is a big reason for her CS OPness.

If I had to make a prediction, I'd say probably Sorc has a slight edge mostly because Sorc so good for 98-99 and more or less even until 98 all things considered. But one key drop (or lack thereof) can easily swing it either way.