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Vessel of Hatred

SPF Hall of Records

Makes sense on not wanting to use the successful horks.

@ResTTe You can definitely count individual champions though. I think albatross did that for his sets. If you want to see if skipping some of the devilkin champs are worth it (surely not chasing them very far will be worth it).
Maybe i can spare some time and try counting packs when watching the video after the set is done or maybe i just need to wait till the stars align
Click to expand...
Why not both? :p
 
For me it's either kill them all or skip the whole pack. When i try to kill only a few, i have troubles. They often run away in different directions and i have to chase them. They also spawn in some narrow places and i have to kill the whole pack including the random minions and then hork like 10 bodies. When i decide to skip some, they always comeback when i hork the rest and i have to swap my weapons, kill them and swap weapons once again. It's annoying xD If i could change 1 thing, i would delete champions entirely. Bosses alone would be enough imo.
 
I count kills from recordings while focusing on figuring out if I should S&E early or check the last segment, which is important for high AT scores. It might sound like it's the same but here you count each unique/champion individually and compare the total to monUmax. My HoR entries so far have used the traditional counting method, but I'll do both for the next set and compare them.

This method should also even out the RNG between sets a bit. Monster shrines which upgrade into a champion shouldn't count as a kill because 1 champs (in AT at least) is equal to 0.39 unique kills. You get more for 2 uniques and 4 + 4 champs (4 vs 5.16), but score less for 2 uniques and 1 + 1 champs (4 vs 2.79). Additionally, killing 1 champ doesn't take the same amount of time as 4 so it makes sense you'd score it differently. Unlucky runs with 1 unique and 4 + 4/3 + 3 champs wouldn't ruin the score (4 vs 4.95 - 5.34).
 
What about counting big champion packs? You always count them as a single pack even though it can be 2 packs, right? Is min number of packs from the files relevant here? We should not get 3 packs in pits lvl 1, cause the min value is 5 iirc. I get 3/4 packs quite often and there always is a big pack of champions which makes think that it's actually 2 packs instead of 1. In simple words, i am asking how do you distinguish a pack with 4 champions from 2 packs with 2 champions each.
 
ResTTe said:
how do you distinguish a pack with 4 champions from 2 packs with 2 champions each
Click to expand...

You don't :D it's another issue with traditional counting. Sometimes you notice some space between them which could mean 2 packs, but AT (pit too?) can spawns 2 uniques and / or champs almost on top of each other.

It's a guess, if there are 5 I assume 3 + 2 (2 packs), 4 is almost always 1. That's why I think counting each champ and dividing the total by 2.53 is more precise.
 
@ResTTe I understand you mean skipping a whole pack of Devilkins (and not counting it)? What Gripphon and I mean is killing 2/3 or 3/4 champions but still count it as one pack if one of them runs far away and is skipped. HoR ruleset allows this because is it's indeed just stupid – or inefficient – to chase them down. I still do it most of the time because I'm dumb and have OCD :D but it makes sense that it's "forgiven" under the ruleset. If you kill a boss every 6 seconds on average, it doesn't make any sense to spend 5 seconds to chase down a runaway champion which is worth only 0.3 bosses or so. Logic dictates the most efficient approach is killing the 2-3 of them that don't run too far away.

I also count those 4 champions situations as one pack. It happened a few times that I noticed in the video that it was two packs, because there were 5 champions which sometimes looked like only 4 first. But chances are very low that (1) two 2x packs of (2) the same monster type, (3) spawn right next to each other. So I think always counting it as one is the right thing to do.

But I agree efficiency suffers really a lot if a set happens to have a large number of Devilkin champion packs. But that kind of RNG we just have to live with. :)

Re further attempts, did one more set which started out very nicely and averaged 8.6 for the first 40 runs – only to be ruined by a very bad last 10 runs with only 7.4 average. 😡 After that I respec'ed to WW now. Will do some Baal runs until MFO starts this weekend, and then let's see what happens.
 
@ffs Yeah, skipping the pack completely and not counting it is what i was thinking about. I sometimes get devilkin champions in places you can't even imagine. The density of mobs is like 1 million per square meter there XD It would be way better for my sanity and probably even efficiency if i skip them entirely.

I can tell how many champions there are when i'm running. I even remember counting individual champions in each pack on top of counting packs when running for some statistical project for Dr Malawi long ago. It can be problematic sometimes when you kill like 5 packs in the same area, but it's not a big deal. What is strange to me is the fact that you can get like 2/3 packs of champions in lvl 1 and that's it. It's kinda weird that you can get up to 8 packs in lvl 1 at the same time.
 
For statistical purposes it seems interesting to go into details, although it won't make much of a difference. Counting champions is reserved strictly for those who plan on recording whole sets and then rewatch it with pencil and paper.
Letting one champion go if he splits is best thing to do. Besides amount of killed normal monsters and horked normal monsters pretty much counters the effect of letting one champion go away here and there. Especially devilkins. Chasing them all is cool, but in that time whole new boss could be killed...

Besides bigger picture is to compare areas in respect to farming rare items, and for those it doesn't matter much will we have exact number of champions killed per set or not. On top of it none of reported scores respresents MFO related effort because MFO is entirely different thing. It simply represents biggest amount of luck with best playing done in a single set of 50 runs. In such regard pit has advantage over AT because aiming to get lucky in 50 runs is easier than to do it on 100 runs so even those comparisons aren't exactly fully precise because normal monsters also account for something. There are simply the limits of precision in these things from practical point of view :)
 
@ResTTe we know from fruits descriptions of the spawning process that champions increment the "spawned bosses" counter individually. Theoretically you arent guaranteed a certain number of packs by monumin value because you could have few packs to upgrade or a small map. This isn't true, practically, in pits or AT but just wanted to say that. In pits lvl 1 you're nearly guaranteed to have 6 "bosses", and can have up to 8. Problem is that if you spawn 2 champ packs of 4 right at the beginning, you're now already at the max of 8. So this is why 2 packs is the minimum in pits lvl 1.
 
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This is my last entry before the MFO and before getting some really good score e.i. beating top scores in this thread ^^

I tried not counting packs and not writing down the numbers when running. Counted them when watching the video after the set. Hard to tell if this is what helped with achieving a better score... I am still below 1,5 pretty much all the time. Got a few 1,45s/1,46s. Still no luck with density... Can't get a considerable more packs than 8,4 avg.

SC Berserk Barbarian
Category: P1 Pit
Average run time: 52.84 seconds (50 runs in 2642 seconds)
Average boss number: 8.38 (419 total)
MF: 727/577
Find Item: 55%
Seconds/Bosspack: 6.305
Efficiency: 4.068
Adjusted efficiency: 1.444

General:
Cham'ed Shako
Enigma
Arach
40mf Chancies
50mf War Travs
75/30 Nagel
70/30 Nagel
Highlord's

Kill Switch:
395/34 Grief + 6 Ist'ed PB

Tele Swtich:
Hoto + Ist'ed Wizzy

Inventory:
40mf Gheed's
Various SCs with mf and some addons
The Cube

Merc:
Might Merc
243/17/5 Eth GT Insight
10/29/139 Non-eth cham'ed Andy
Eth 60 IAS Armor with some addons

Stats:
Max vita build with 23 points into str (139 total) and 114 points into dex (136 total).

Skills:
Max: Berserk, Sword Mastery, Howl, Shout and Find Item
1 point: all prereqs, Increased Speed and Natural Resistance
2 points into BO, cause i don't cast BC so i had 1 extra point


This set was originally 1,440 with 8,42 avg, but it turned out i calculated 1 pack too much in the first watch of the video.
 
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It is done.

Made Enigma in Breast Plate yesterday to achieve that 0 str build and got 157 additional life that way. Didn't change anything else.

General:
Cham'ed Shako
Enigma Breast Plate
Arach
40mf Chancies
50mf War Travs
75/30 Nagel
70/30 Nagel
Highlord's

Kill Switch:
395/34 Grief + 6 Ist'ed PB

Tele Swtich:
Hoto + Ist'ed Wizzy

Inventory:
40mf Gheed's
Various SCs with mf and some addons
The Cube

Merc:
Might Merc
243/17/5 Eth GT Insight
10/29/139 Non-eth cham'ed Andy
Eth 60 IAS Armor with some addons

Stats:
Max vita build with 0 points into str (116 total) and 114 points into dex (136 total).

Skills:
Max: Berserk, Sword Mastery, Howl, Shout and Find Item
1 point: all prereqs, Increased Speed and Natural Resistance
2 points into BO, cause i don't cast BC so i had 1 extra point

SC Berserk Barbarian
Category: P1 Pit
Average run time: 52.38 seconds (50 runs in 2619 seconds)
Average boss number: 8.58 (429 total)
MF: 727/577
Find Item: 55%
Seconds/Bosspack: 6.105
Efficiency: 3.939
Adjusted efficiency: 1.398




That was the density i was looking for. I finally got it and even though it was the first set of the day (those tend to be a little bit sloppy, sort of warm up runs) i managed to get what has been my goal for so long now ^^
I remember reading the original Hall of Records thread on the old forum. Watching those unbelievable runs posted by @Gripphon and @Fabian and thinking "I want to be like them". Today is the day my dream came true. Today is the day i surpassed those i was looking up to.

Missed one camouflaged devilkin boss in lvl 2 in 39th minute, so it could have been 1,395 with 8,6 avg density, but whatever... I am done with grinding that score for some time.

Your turn @ffs ^^
 
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Absolutely sick. Huge congrats @ResTTe! Well deserved, but I had no idea you were gonna get such a score so quickly. Congrats on beating that 6.5 year record and by a really satisfying margin too. Hope @ffs doesn't have a heart attack :p.
 
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Holy crap, sick score! I’ll check out the runs tomorrow when I have time. I was sure Fabian's score could be surpassed after recent tries, even 1.42 or a bit lower – but sub 1.4 I didn’t think could be done.
 
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Thanks guys! I wasn't sure if that set was good or not when i finished it. All i knew was that it was pretty fast. Actually the fastest i've done. I wasn't counting packs when running for a few days now, so i didn't even know there were that many 10s, only a few 6s and nothing below that. Here you can check how that set looks like from the mathematical perspective:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jVxV80SWjHgV6dVELReADSK2khQGmwNpUGRxwx7dFPY/edit?usp=sharing (check "#4 Entry")

I haven't seen such good, consistent density without annoying packs for a long time now. Well, the stars aligned and it happened ^^

There is a possibility to beat that score though. I am still a little bit short in terms of MF and i can still get higher density, but it will take some time. You can still see some missclicks and stuff like that, but most of the set was done pretty much flawlessly. I have rerolling my map and grinding some MF charms in my mind. I will probably think about it more after the MFO. For now, i should focus on casual farming, getting some qualifiers and overall useful items (i wasn't picking up many things when grinding those HoR entries).

@Luhkoh I wasn't expecting that either... The spawns RNG in that set was just too good though.

@sir_cyclops Luhkoh is like my manager XD He motivates me and does other stuff which really helps. Thanks to him for that.

@Albatross Well, this is my first entry during the MFO i guess XD

@ffs I hope you won't find any missed horks and other compromising things xD I think you have a really high chance of getting similar score too. You just need to get those good spawns and work a little bit on that s&e lag ^^ Your 1,441 score with pretty much no preparation was sick. I was struggling to beat it for a few sets.

@Kinkara I am really proud of my barb's development. I made him from scrap and achieved every single goal i had in mind. You can argue that i still have 1 item left for my Grail, but i remind you that it's Bane Ash XD It's just a matter of time.
 
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