Alright so here is my super long post, and since iou indicates that hes pretty much done, there is no point in not posting it:
@Pyrotechnician here's where Gorny explains my earlier point about how this was a normal game.
Some observations:
- You don't think it is a little strange that D2DC spent most of his time trying to get everyone to self identify their roles?
- He's claimed every role under the sun by now.
- As soon as Noodle was identified as a cop (at the incessant pestering of D2DC) he dies, despite D2DC saying he was going to protect Noodle - an obvious ploy in hindsight
- Both Zemaj and D2DC went straight after Noodle on day 1 hot off the gates with 0 information at that point, possibly assuming people wouldn't pick up on the Mafia read of that move - I did pick up on it and I was right.
Now for the crazy:
- I'd never heard of a Vanillaiser, but when D2DC mentioned it I Googled it in 5 seconds and knew he was BSing us. Why the hell did he take 40 mins to research and find the answer before posting a link? What was with all the faux confusion, increasingly random posts, throwing out that I thought he was X,Y or Z?
- He has now twice tried to appeal to you - he said he healed you first night (yeah right), he is also trying to leverage a Shaftstop and Insight (weak)
- For me, this post was the biggest giveaway seeing as I had completely forgotten that some roles existed (i.e. forgot about Godfather - having only briefly skimmed the roles before playing), but he let slip the truth I think:
Assuming we take Noodle at his word, he investigated D2DC and he came back as Town, then D2DC is a Godfather and then the simplest story makes sense. D2DC killed Noodle after he got everyone to reveal themselves - going after the only other person with any power.
Or you can believe the more convoluted version in which D2DC was a Doctor, someone else has a Vanillaiser role that they neglected to use the whole game, while D2DC neglected to use his doctor role the whole game, but both of which suddenly got used as soon as Noodle was identified? This version also D2DC clutching at any and all straws.
The reason I voted straight away after this latest night phase was because I came to the simple conclusion: If Noodle dies, then D2DC didn't protect him and is Mafia and I had read D2DC as mafia from day 1.
Let me just say, that shaftstop and insight were super cool. Well, not super cool, but they were pretty helpful, but I really do need to find them to give them back.
I agree on some of these points, it all kind of works together given the fact pattern, D2DC tries to draw out all of the power roles so he knows what hes up against, comes up with a doc claim as backing for the hard push for role reveal, obviously then he would need to come up with or have a reason why noodle died even though he said he would protect him, hence where vanilla ice cream power would come into play. The simple straightforward explanation would be that D2DC is really godfather, and sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer. Also my initial gut reaction was that D2DC was obviously lying, and someone once told me that your original gut reaction is probably right. I'm going to quote another couple posts here:
This is not true. D1 I was just trying to whip the town together to make sure we avoided a no-lynch. But, yes D2 I tried everything under the sun to get a town PR to come forward KNOWING I CAN PROTECT THEM. I agreed with Pyro's long analysis about why it was possibly better for a cop/tracker to wait until today to come forward. But, he didn't KNOW there was a doc in the game.
Also not true. I made my ridiculous cop claim to try to draw out the real cop, and now the TRUTH. I don't claim to know what happened last night, I am just guessing. And yea, I didn't find this strongman/vanillaizer right away, because I DIDN'T KNOW what I was looking for.
* note * Early in the game, you tried to twist what I said as well. Again, I ask, where did I DEFEND Zemaj?
This is actually a huge tell that I and Zemaj were NOT working together. Mafia do not come straight out and work together in concert, laying down the first two votes on someone, trying to get a train going. They tend to lay in wait, see which way the suspicion is pointing, sneak their votes in unnoticed.
Pushing the "knowing the I can protect them" and then the protect not happening makes this sentence pretty weak.
Knowing what happened right away is an obvious scum tell actually. If D2DC had the answer of vanilla ice cream cake right away that would probably be more telling because knowing the answer right away means the answer was thought through. Someone with a few games of experience would know this, and could easily explain why D2DC took time to come up with a valid "reason". If D2DC planned out claiming vanilla ice cream before the day started its possible his "finding a reason" was rushed when you voted ioupain, putting him in a scramble to defend.
Mafia do try to distance pretty hard in the beginning of the game, thats a fair point, but I actually don't see a ton of things that point to them working with or against eachother, mainly because zemaj had a whole 1 post.
1. I could NOT self protect.
2. Even if I could, I wouldn't have. The whole point of yesterday was to get the cop to come out so I could protect him.
2a. I already explained that I did consider protecting you Pyro in case Noodle going Rainman on us.
Exactly. Other than me being TOWN, which I AM, the most straightforward/simplest explanation of this is that I am GF.
So, bear with me. I am GF..
1. Why do I need to press SOOO hard to get a town PR reveal? Whether Noodle invest me or not. The easiest play is to keep on taking NKs, hope there is a cop and not a tracker, or better yet hope to just pick the PR off at night.
2. Why do I float the idea of a GF, when I am the GF? I mentioned it because it seemed safe to assume a Mafia PR given that at that point I KNEW town had 3 confirmed PRs. I've never seen any other Mafia PR before (maybe roleblocker?).
3. Just like your quote Pyro.. My plan to avoid two town results from Noodle, and avoid the "You're a GF", "No, youre a GF" debate was this Vanilla Cake BS? ..
Ok, so you could not self protect. As a doc that can not self protect then normal play would not to go guns blazing throughout the game because you wouldn't want to get yourself either night killed or lynched before possibly protecting someone, your game play does not fit a doc that can not self protect. Although I agree probably without you trying to push people the game probably would have stalled more. Further, if you could not self protect, then there should have not even been a consideration of protecting me over noodle when there were no contrary claims to noodles. If he is town cop and he investigated you as town, why would you NOT protect him to guarantee at least one "confirmed" town into the next day. I know protecting me is obviously the best, but game wise it doesn't make sense.
So bear with me, you are GF:
1. You would want to be certain you are safe from any other possible town power roles, and if there is a cop and you are godfather, you would want them to come forth with the innocent claim if they had it.
2. Scum sometimes mention things they know to be true, to try and build it as a posed question and make it seem like its a townie trying to find information (see previous explanation).
3. Avoiding that debate could be way easier than dealing with noodle, since I've mostly been agreeing with you, where as Noodle is typically unpredictable, and said he had no reason to vote iou at an earlier point in the game.
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