@ffs Please continue to post and express your ideas. I'm tired of people like
@Fabian and
@maxicek trying to restrict the community just because they've been here longer and are extremely conservative. It's not the year 2000 anymore. Things have changed, and the game needs to be updated simply so that people could even play the game. If it was up to them, then everyone who has a new laptop that has no cd drive couldn't even play older versions before 1.12 because in their mind "OH, YOU CANT USE ISOS BECAUSE BLIZZARD DIDNT INTEND TO DO THAT", "OH YOU CANT REMOVE CD PROTECTION EVEN THOUGH THEY DID IT IN 1.12". They completely don't make sense and I'm happy that their extreme version of close-mindedness, intolerance, and conservatism only affects a small percentage of the population. Most people on the SPF are way more open minded than that and at least "CONSIDER" the freaking point in question. These conservative people basically have a "AUTO-DENY" option automatically built into their brains.
@maxicek, what do you think that the SPF was created on day 1 with the current rules in question? Welcome to the SPF everyone, here is years of "FAM" rules and tailorings that automatically existed... Nope. FAM developed over many years of people playing the game here and every SPF "Generation" proposing changes, suggestions, and actually getting those changes done. Now it's the current SPFs generation to call for a review and reform on existing rules, and clean up anything we don't believe is correct. This _will_ happen whether you like it or not. Nobody is saying change the pub to a wine bar, it is more like adding more freaking beers to the list because at the moment the pub only has 3 kinds. Make a correct analogy if you are even going to mention it.
@ffs, I agree, ATMA bugging should be removed. Yes it was discussed years ago, and yes it was wrong. It should be revisited and removed. Current ATMA bugged items SHOULD be removed by players in the current population. Any characters that interacted with them shouldn't be removed as you stated before. So this is just a "delete the specific item" type of cleanup. Nobody that interacted with those characters or those characters themselves need to be deleted. Simple as that, don't complain about it if you have an ATMA bugged item, it never was in the game, and you clearly knew about it. This logic of "Oh we discussed this before and agreed on this" is ridiculous. Imagine how the United States would be like if this was the case? "Oh we already discussed Alcohol should be illegal, so that's it." "Oh we already discussed slavery is ok, so that's it"., "Oh we discussed woman can't vote, so that's it.". This type of logic is completely irrational. That's why amendments exist to the US constitution, because the country's original documents didn't always get it right, and the succeeding generations always have to propose and implement new changes as the country develops.
@necrolemming Showing the Item Level is something that is already in the game but we are exposing it to plain view. For example Magic Find exists in the game, and you could just take out a calculator and do it manually, but you can also just show a number that shows Magic Find. It doesn't change the game at all, just changes how fast you calculate that number. Singling is already restricted to technical improvements and minor quality of life improvements. Showing Item Level would fall under the same category as RWM and/or "Allowing HC characters without beating SC".
Futureproofing is something that we have seen evidence for between all of the D2 versions. A lot of the mods broke between multiple versions of the game. Everyone who uses "PlugY" doesn't play 1.14 because the game significantly change. And now that you mention it, I actually developed a technically superior improvement to PlugY which I renamed "Gardenia" -
https://github.com/fearedbliss/Gardenia. The goal of Gardenia was to remove all of the objectionable content that the SPF didn't like and just reduce it down to basically just the unlimited stash. Along the process I also made significant code clean ups and improvements that I hope would be a good basis for future moders to use when updating it to 1.14 and beyond.
@Noodle knows about Gardenia since we privately discussed it. However one of the reasons I didn't introduce it to the community last year was because the SPF was going through the whole "The SPF I know" problem so it didn't seem the right time to do that. So yea, there shouldn't be anything in Gardenia now that the majority of the SPF objects to. Unlimited respecs, Ubers, etc have all been removed. However, I don't really recommend the usage of PlugY or Gardenia simply because of the futureproof situation that I mentioned. Originally it might have seemed like a good idea for the original developers to make these mods for a specific version of D2 (And don't get me started with the technical implementation of PlugY to support multiple versions, it was horrible, wasn't clearly designed to be a multi-version mod, and it took me weeks to untangle). If people get dependent on a specific version of PlugY or <insert mod here>, this prevents that player from updating to the latest version. That's why all of the modifications that I've consolidated from the SPF into Singling and any new stuff added is clearly re-added from scratch from the new Blizzard base version. This allows us to pretty rapidly re-implement changes into the new version of Diablo II, while allowing all of the already existing versions to independently co-exist. I also don't want Singling to grow too much because it would be more difficult to re-implement these changes. I feel Singling is already in a pretty good state, the Item Level stuff would be good, doing CRM for pre 1.13 would be good, and enabling RWM for 1.10 would be good. I don't think Singling really needs anything else other than those suggestions. At least there is nothing I can think of. Maybe if there is another CPU problem we would need to fix that as well haha (or if Blizzard implements something in the future that would be really good to have in previous versions but that wouldn't be too technically difficult to implement).
As for molding the standards, what community do I have? The Xyinn Network is not a separate community. It is the SPF's MP community that I started since there wasn't an active one anymore. Most people are SPF members (Even though I want to make the community bigger so I've opened up invitations to anyone that wants to play legit around the world). People that join that are non-SPF members are definitely introduced to the SPF since we all have a common goal and purpose, and the SPF is a great community with a lot of resources. So you end up with a situation that non-SPF members end up becoming SPF members. They are together, not separate. My suggestions are my ideas on how the SPF should move forward, it's not about molding one community to be like the other. At the end of the day, you posting molds my ideas to be further refined and reflected upon, and I appreciate your response because of that
.
@Kitteh Correct. I did mention that the discussion of mods _shouldn't be banned_ and that we can have a separate sub-forum about it. So that should be the same as what you say related to "don't talk about it in the main SPF forum but if we have a "SPF development" sub-forum, it could be discussed in there, that's fine as well and it's better like that since it keeps things more organized.
Anti-dupe stuff can never be fully stop and we should rely on the honor system for this.
1.07.41 is very different than regular 1.07. It's just another version that most people in the world haven't played since it was only released to 1000 people. As
@GalaXyHaXz mentioned, someone on the internet released the ISOs in the hopes that someone would be able to get it to work. Luckily
@GalaXyHaXz had the technical capacity to do this, and was able to do just that. Thanks to him the world can experience this lost patch. It would be fine if stuff found in 1.07.41 was restricted to it. From what we do know, not many items drop in that patch (Apparently monsters don't drop items? Not sure).
HC to SC items, you misinterpreted what I was saying. I said that HC to SC items should be banned. The later part wasn't me trying to get the HC -> SC character rollover to happen, it's more about saying that one rule doesn't make sense to have since it's similar to the other one. If HC/SC character rollovers should not be allowed and indeed be separate, then I also believe that we should have that isolation happen completely, meaning HC/SC item transfers shouldn't be allowed. Thus we are in full agreement with what you said: "I would actually support not allowing HC to SC transfer".
Allow play between versions, like I mentioned before, people shouldn't technically make a 1.13c game and play with another person on 1.13d, that's not what I'm advocating for. But more if a person started on 1.13d but most of the player base is playing 1.13c, that 1.13d player should be allowed to downgrade to another minor patch version in order to align with the majority of the base. This [abcd] separation shouldn't be continued.
And yea it feels like a scottish referendum but that's because the SPF hasn't had a moderator to fully make a ruling on all of the stuff that's been happening for the past several months. Hopefully this can change, and this thread can hold all of people's ideas and suggestions on reform so when the new moderator comes in, they can look at this, consider the topics, and make a ruling.
@GalaXyHaXz Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with just banning time traveling items all together (And yes I do know this will force a restart - However Blizzard has had about 21 ladder resets in the past 17 years, the SPF can't even have 1?). I think it's fine with people time traveling and playing different versions, that's cool. If I were to think about it (I don't really care about what people do and I've done it myself, but just looking at this from the future of the community and game), time traveling items makes the game easier on future patches for sure. If we all time traveled to play older versions and kept those items only on that specific version (1.09 items stay within 1.09[abcd], 1.07 items stay in 1.07), it probably would be more beneficial to the community. Not sure.
