2019 Spring RFL Sign-up and Running Thread: 2nd Round

All this talk about WW Barbs made me want to try out one myself in Travincal. So I farmed an essence at Meph with another character, respecced my oskill Sept Barb and gave him a go. I actually liked it :). 40s avg run time over 25 runs, so too slow, but as I'm still learning the ropes, it's not too bad. I also settled on the first map that had all Council members at the left side of the balcony. I thought it was a nice map, until I saw one of Grip's videos where all the Council members are actually on top of each other exactly in the corner. Maybe I'll reroll. Maybe I'll just accept things as they are ;).
 
@ffs I’m likely going to roll maps with both Devi (my untwinked trapper) and a blizz sorc. So if anyone is interested in seeing the trapper runs, I can post a video.

That said, with a top 5 in the first round, it’d be fun to challenge you/gripp/pbpal overall. To really have a chance, i will likely need to use the sorc for the full 20 hours.
 
Maybe I should've waited until Friday to start figuring out how to do Trav runs with my throwbarb...

My equip for those interested:

Arreats (w/ Jewel of Fervor)
Highlords
Ravenfrost
Rare ring with fcr/mana steal
CoH
Warshrike (Lacerator makes them flee, a bad option despite the amp)
Rare Cruel/Fools Stygian Pilum
Razortail
LoH
Ik Boots (since ranged crushing blow is nerfed)


eWBxocR.jpg
 
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Grape (1.07)
WoRG (1.07)
zemaj (1.07)
pharphis (1.07)
maxicek
ffs
art_vandelay
peytron
LongingForDeath
jjscud
PhineasB
Vildecor
Gripphon
Kitteh
Hutton
T72on1
sir_cyclops
CaseyJones
Teddeeboy
Babyhell
Apila
ESDv2
Friiser
NanoMist
TheGuardianXXXIII
Ghonn
Luhkoh
Pb_pal
Jocular
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I will run more than 0 hours this time. Not promising a lot, but I did already do a few runs with my bone spirit necro (nearly lvl 89!). Not efficient, either but whatevs
 
Currently sitting on 3 Surs and 4 Mals which means I'm 1 Sur short of cubed Infinity with some Mal surplus. Yesterday didn't actually bring me any closer to the Infinity, but I still consider myself quite lucky. Ohm, Mal and Pul were found during 1,5 farming session in LK. Hoping for a Sur today, tomorrow or soonish, anyway.

This Ohm almost makes it possible to roll another CtA on top my previous 3/3 one. Just need one Ist, but that could cubed from all my Um runes already.

Gotta say I'm much more hyped about this Trav round than Cows for some reason. Maybe it's because of the quick runs and more mf allowed for me. Too bad there's no XP in this for my L94 sorc :)
 
I have to push a fresh assassin to Trav to participate. Will join in a couple days! (Might be one or two days late to the party though :oops:)
 
I've been testing both WW Barb and Blizz Sorc. Barb feels more relaxed to play, but has a bigger risk of missing items in the clutter.

Neither of them has a perfect map. WW Barb has the council inside but clumped together. Blizz sorc has council on the left side of the balcony, but slightly spread out in the middle with Toorc slightly isolated closer to the doorway. I did about 20-25 runs with each. Average time with Barb was 41 seconds, Sorc was 25 seconds. Fastest Barb time was 34.5 seconds, Sorc's was 19.3 seconds. Considering 56% hork, they are pretty close in regard to efficiency.

I could try to roll a better map for the sorc and put a facet into her Ormus', but other than that, she has no further room for improvement at the moment, since I most likely won't find a Death's Fathom or Nightwing's before the round starts. Of course, her driver can still improve, since this is my first time running the council with a sorc. Barb has probably more room for improvements, namely switching from Oath+Beast to Grief+Beast and switching the AR/Damage charms to pure 1.07 damage charms.
 
@LongingForDeath Interesting, thanks for the comparison. Seems we are in the same boat when it comes to run times with both at the moment (40s for Barb, 23.5s for Sorc).

You probably have already read it, but since you never know: when putting together my WW Barb yesterday evening (I have almost zero experience with WW Barbs in Travincal), this post by Gripphon was a great help. A lot of stuff I figured out on my own (dual Griefs for example, go figure ;) ), but for example amount of AR needed, the tip on getting enough mana for horking and teleporting back, ...

I'll probably post a video of both the Sorc and the Barb later, to get some feedback on my map and tips on how to improve. But overall I have come to accept that, in general, as far as dedicated runs are concerned (be it for mf, rf or xp runs), my fastest run times are close to the top runners' average run times. I have been watching videos of Travincal, Cows, Pindle, Pits, ... by now, trying to get as fast as the top runners, but I just don't see the difference. Best example probably being Pindle, where there is literally no difference between runners when it comes to the map, and I have all the top gear needed. Just to be clear: while it has frustrated me in the past, I'm 100% fine with it now. My goal has shifted from trying to get up there as well to trying to improve myself. Obviously that's easier when drops are at least average and preferably above average ;). Which luckily, has been the case in last year's and this year's RFL and last year's Pindle MFO.

Two question for now about WW Barb in Travincal (not only to LongingForDeath, but to everyone). What do you do about Mana Burn? Seems to happen quite a lot. For now I have put Concentrate on left click. And second, if the pack isn't as tight as in Gripphon's perfect map, is it best to make long whirls through the entire pack, or short bursts, focusing on a few members at a time?
 
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Grape (1.07)
WoRG (1.07)
zemaj (1.07)
pharphis (1.07)
maxicek
ffs
art_vandelay
peytron
LongingForDeath
jjscud
PhineasB
Vildecor
Gripphon
Kitteh
Hutton
T72on1
sir_cyclops
CaseyJones
Teddeeboy
Babyhell
Apila
ESDv2
Friiser
NanoMist
TheGuardianXXXIII
Ghonn
Luhkoh
Pb_pal
Jocular
Quinneczech
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I am not sure, if I will be able to complete the whole batch (more of them is out of the question), but maybe I will get lucky and find something to be able to compete with. Since I am running dry last couple of months :)

My untwinked HC WW barb will be running this, hopefully I will not screw it and RIP him :)
 
@T72on1 Yes, I read that. Basically the reason why I'm not going with String of Ears and Dwarf Star anymore, which I had on my original Barbarian in 1.13, and will remove the PTopaz from his Arreat's in favor of a damage jewel. Dual HotO helps surprisingly well for having enough mana to teleport back and start with a(n almost) full bulb in the next run. I'm currently at over 4.9k AR with level 9 Fanaticism from Beast. Not sure if I'll lose too much once I remove all the AR charms in favor of damage charms, though. I'll probably just go with 1 Grief this time. I figure the Fanaticism aura from Beast helps the merc to proc decrep faster and he's less fragile until his might aura kicks in. Also, Zerking Ismail should be faster this way, since I'm using Berserker Axes as bases.

As for handling mana burn: I have Double Swing on left-click. Doesn't cost any mana and one swing gives me enough mana back to start another WW. If all else fails, just drink a potion and pick one up before you teleport back.

About your second question: I usually do longer whirls. With short whirls I feel like I'm stopping way too much in between, which is time that could have been spent hitting other targets. I mean, in the end it doesn't matter whether you you need 33 seconds to kill all 11 council members at roughly the same time or you kill them one by one in 3 seconds each. It's not like they are posing a huge threat. The only difference is when one of them spawns with Conviction. Then I focus on eliminating that guy first, since my merc still goes down quickly to that. Then again, I haven't socketed his Kira's yet, which has a pretty low roll to begin with.
 
T72on1 said:
But overall I have come to accept that, in general, as far as dedicated runs are concerned (be it for mf, rf or xp runs), my fastest run times are close to the top runners' average run times. I have been watching videos of Travincal, Cows, Pindle, Pits, ... by now, trying to get as fast as the top runners, but I just don't see the difference. Best example probably being Pindle, where there is literally no difference between runners when it comes to the map, and I have all the top gear needed. Just to be clear: while it has frustrated me in the past, I'm 100% fine with it now. My goal has shifted from trying to get up there as well to trying to improve myself. Obviously that's easier when drops are at least average and preferably above average ;). Which luckily, has been the case in last year's and this year's RFL and last year's Pindle MFO.
Click to expand...

On that point you mentioned regarding run time differences even with equal/similar maps and gear: It's all about reducing the number of misclicks, observing your running, and paying attention to where a little bit of time can be saved. The reason why I like to record my runs, apart from demonstration purposes, is because it allows me to see my own progress. That's how I improved my running bit by bit over time. For example this is how my Travincal runs changed:
  • 20-25 seconds – early 2017 when I joined
  • sub 20 seconds – early 2018 before last year's RFL
  • sub 19 seconds – RFL 2018
  • sub 17 seconds – now
(Sure the latter is largely because of a very good map, but in general the improvements mostly came from paying attention to how runs could be improved. Gear was largely the same throughout this period of time.)

I guess it's also connected as to what you like about playing D2, and how much effort you (want to) put into improving efficiency. For me personally, it's a major reason why I still enjoy playing D2, and doing so within this community where several others are similarly motivated. But that's just me. Others play the game for very different reasons and pay attention to very different things, with good reasons as well...

And indeed the advantage of fast times is very little, especially when only top 5 count. (I'm a good example in a painful way. In @Gripphon's absence I had the fastest runs on several occasions, and never won anything. :p) So there isn't really as much of a disadvantage as people may think based on run time differences, and no reason at all to be discouraged as I think Gripp mentioned in the R1 thread as well.
 
Listening to you guys seems like sci-fi to me. I cant imagine playing at this pace, one run takes me about a minute and even then it feels super frenetic to me :))
 
LongingForDeath said:
@T72on1 Yes, I read that. Basically the reason why I'm not going with String of Ears and Dwarf Star anymore, which I had on my original Barbarian in 1.13, and will remove the PTopaz from his Arreat's in favor of a damage jewel. Dual HotO helps surprisingly well for having enough mana to teleport back and start with a(n almost) full bulb in the next run. I'm currently at over 4.9k AR with level 9 Fanaticism from Beast. Not sure if I'll lose too much once I remove all the AR charms in favor of damage charms, though. I'll probably just go with 1 Grief this time. I figure the Fanaticism aura from Beast helps the merc to proc decrep faster and he's less fragile until his might aura kicks in. Also, Zerking Ismail should be faster this way, since I'm using Berserker Axes as bases.
Click to expand...

I'm currently using dual Suicide Branches on switch, but I think I'll go dual HotO and Arachnid's too next time.

LongingForDeath said:
As for handling mana burn: I have Double Swing on left-click. Doesn't cost any mana and one swing gives me enough mana back to start another WW. If all else fails, just drink a potion and pick one up before you teleport back.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I really have holes in my memory :oops:. I have been using 0 mana Double Swing (@lvl9 or so, iirc) for so many times. And yet, yesterday I completely forgot to use that as solution, and went for Concentrate instead. Embarrassing ...

LongingForDeath said:
About your second question: I usually do longer whirls. With short whirls I feel like I'm stopping way too much in between, which is time that could have been spent hitting other targets. I mean, in the end it doesn't matter whether you you need 33 seconds to kill all 11 council members at roughly the same time or you kill them one by one in 3 seconds each. It's not like they are posing a huge threat. The only difference is when one of them spawns with Conviction. Then I focus on eliminating that guy first, since my merc still goes down quickly to that. Then again, I haven't socketed his Kira's yet, which has a pretty low roll to begin with.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll try that next time instead.

Btw, my merc didn't have any real issues versus Conviction. He is using 69% Kira's and GA, both with Ral, and a Shaeled eth high roll Reaper's. Still, I try to get the Conviction out of the way as fast as possible to make sure.

ffs said:
I guess it's also connected as to what you like about playing D2, and how much effort you (want to) put into improving efficiency. For me personally, it's a major reason why I still enjoy playing D2, and doing so within this community where several others are similarly motivated. But that's just me. Others play the game for very different reasons and pay attention to very different things, with good reasons as well...
Click to expand...

This is a very important one. Getting a better map, and in the end a perfect map, plays a huge role in getting faster runs. That's why I could improve my run times at first to such extent. I now also better understand what good maps are for different areas. But going from that good map to those (close to) perfect maps ... I just don't have the patience. I hate rerolling maps. It's wasted time for me. So I settle for good maps. Which, in the example of Travincal and my run times so far, can easily mean a difference of staying at 23.5s on average instead of 21.5s. Maps matter that much. But I can't bring myself to getting them that close to perfection.
 
All you barb players, whats the recommended way(s) to go about ww'ing? Is right click ww better than shift+left click? I was testing out my barb yesterday (first time ever using the ww skill) and was getting annoyed when I would press right click and he would do a normal attack. I figured out I can get around this by holding the show items button, which I'm guessing is common practice for right-clickers? But then when there's 1 or two enemies left I can't see them very well because of all the items. Is the solution to that just to release the show items button mid-whirl? I was trying that but wasn't good enough yet to do it smoothly and would get stalled out doing a normal attack fairly often. Anyways any advice is appreciated! I'm thinking the runs will be doable for me, but they're still very rough around the edges right now, and merc needs a decent amount of healing with ral'd steelshade and upped duriels (I think the dmg he takes is mostly physical). Thanks in advance!
 
What I do is use /nopickup command to not allow items get in the way of right click whirling. With right click whirling secret is to kill all with as few reclicks as possible. With Enigma it is possible to clear the Travincal with only one click whirl and then holding the mouse button controlling the whirling until everything is dead without show items button at all. Once first whirl is done this way, all others are done automatically and you can't click on minions at all even if you want to unless you left the mouse button. The more reclicking is done, the more likely it is to click on the minion and do normal attack.
 
@Gripphon hmmm. Ok I'm definitely using nopickup already, but I was thinking that once I was whirling, releasing the show items button was indeed making me do normal attack without releasing RMB. From what you say this must be wrong though, so I'll experiment more this afternoon. Thanks! And I do not have enigma, but I think that would not affect this specific issue. Thanks Gripp!
 
T72on1 said:
I thought there were one or two other builds. Certainly someone who mentioned Novamancer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i'm going to be running my pNova necro and my pit zerker.

Pit zerker changes from standard build:
LoH instead of Chancies
Dwarf Star instead of Nagelring
Switched out my 1/18/FR ammy for a 2/10/res@ ammy
Switched out my 90AR/20FR/15MF/stats ring for a 110AR/10FCR/stats/res@ ring

These tweaks keep my fire res above 65 and 105FCR breakpoint while giving +1 skills, fire absorb, more AR, and LoH demon dmg at the sacrifice of a little bit of MF. I think he's still around 400 MF though, so not too worried. I am going to be using similar Merc setup as my nova necro:

Thresher Insight
SteelShade w/ Ral
Skin of the Flayed w/ IAS jewel (for the leech; don't have the spare Ber to make CoH).


I haven't tested his run times yet. Mostly just focused on the basic gear setup and surviving p3 without issues. I'll do a few timed runs soon to see how inefficient the pit zerker is lol. I just love pit zerkers though. Most fun character
 
So one thing that bothers me a lot right now: Sometimes when I try to pick stuff up the pile of items shifts and I have to readjust and then immediately after it shifts again causing a misclick onto another item. Sometimes it only shifts once, but I think I also witnessed up to 3 shifts. It's very frustrating. (For reference: this happens on my Blizzard Sorc, so no crazy amount of items due to hork)

How do you all deal with that? Could it have something to do with the map?

View attachment 13217
 
I borrowed map from sorc to do this barb video:


Whirling is done by only one click at beginning until majority is dead when show items is pressed to check drops and finishing off remaining minions. Even if one minion stays alive I leave him to merc to kill when barb horks.

Horking is done with showing items to reduce chance of missing anything.

After everything is done, I recommend performing additional walk to the right of the drops just to recheck did something invisible drop. Learn your map's blind spots to know where to check, every map has those.

I'm using Half Freeze Duration mod on ring to unfreeze barb when horking in case Toorc is physical immune. Once barb is unfrozen I zerk him down fast. CBF is possible, although having barb frozen is beneficial for better whirling.

Gear:
Arreat
Enigma
Highlord's
2x Grief / 2x Hoto
Arach
2x rare rings
LoH
War Travelers

Inventory: 1x warcry skiller, rest maxers
(warcry skiller is to get 56% hork without casting battle command, thought that's not needed)

Merc: Kira's, GA, Reaper's
 
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