Mass Effect Mystery Box Mafia Game

[Zokar1]

To clarify:
1) I believe that Numbers has a Vig ability (number of shots I am unsure of)
2) I believe that Numbers shot Laarz with his vig ability.

With these two assumptions, it seems fairly obvious that numbers could be either
1) Mafia and killed town Laarz
2) town and killed mafia Laarz
3) Neutral and killed undefined Laarz

So you think he could be neutral, mafia or town.
To your powers of deduction, I bow down!

 

[Jcakes1]

So you think he could be neutral, mafia or town.
To your powers of deduction, I bow down!

No I believe he is scum. I was pointing out the flaw in Pyro's assessment that because Numbers claimed to have shot a scum laarz in a short period of time after game start he must be telling the truth.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Hmm.

Most of the argument ive seen against drixx is kinda based on believing that im scum along with him. Not sure i understand why people are voting for him?

If you think im scum and hes overdefending me and thats why youre voting for him, then you also have to think im scum. If youre not confident enough in me being scum to vote for me, then why do you think hes scum?

I was considering voting for him, but i realized that i dont think theres any sort of case against him other than him suggesting we lynch to maximize information gained...did i miss some pertinent detail?

 

[Jcakes1]

I keep on umming and ahing between Drixx and Numbers. The appear to be connected (but the connection is coming more from Drixx's side). I am at the point now where I think Drixx is scum regardless of Numbers alignment which is why my vote is on Drixx.

Other people I am considering
1. CG: I definitely see BA's point about CG and could see voting for him
2. Goryani: The whole "trading for a box that is not on the list of boxes in case mafia switch one of there boxes for another box" makes no sense to me.
3. Ankelli: His point that he thinks that Numbers is mafia but that he is telling the truth about Laarz being mafia seems very odd to me and not a conclusion that I think someone would come to from within this thread.

 

[Zokar1]

Hmm.

Most of the argument ive seen against drixx is kinda based on believing that im scum along with him. Not sure i understand why people are voting for him?

If you think im scum and hes overdefending me and thats why youre voting for him, then you also have to think im scum. If youre not confident enough in me being scum to vote for me, then why do you think hes scum?

I was considering voting for him, but i realized that i dont think theres any sort of case against him other than him suggesting we lynch to maximize information gained...did i miss some pertinent detail?

Numbers is mafia.
Drixx is mafia.
I'll vote for either one of ya.

 

[Jcakes1]

Hmm.

Most of the argument ive seen against drixx is kinda based on believing that im scum along with him. Not sure i understand why people are voting for him?

If you think im scum and hes overdefending me and thats why youre voting for him, then you also have to think im scum. If youre not confident enough in me being scum to vote for me, then why do you think hes scum?

I was considering voting for him, but i realized that i dont think theres any sort of case against him other than him suggesting we lynch to maximize information gained...did i miss some pertinent detail?

1. Peddling misinformation about "boxes having different effects dependent on alignment when it clearly states in post 1 they don't"
2. I still think you are scum and the connection between you two is good enough reason for me to vote him
3. Gut feeling. I was starting to get the feeling that even if you weren't scum Drixx was deliberately playing the connection to potentially get townie points if you get lynched.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

I sort of agree with Drixx. I mean, what did we gain from getting to know that Laarz was mafia? It's sort of eerily reminding me of my own plays back when I was more active in these games, trying to gain town-cred. I mean, you would know Laarz was mafia if you're mafia. You'd jump on the situation to save what you can when you noticed he was killed during the night, possible by some self-protection system that CDM had?

I'm also still wondering about Goryani. His play isn't his usual self. Then again that probably doesn't mean anything.

And since you started it, back at you BA!

Vote: Bad Ash

You've been lying and trying to bully people into taking action the entire game, I'm surprised you weren't voted for at the end of the day yesterday. I would've if I'd been online at the time.

This whole post reaks of someone trying to spin the death of their fallen teammate to get rid of a potential threat. Yes he would know Laarz was mafia if he was mafia, but he would also have to come up with something in 4 minutes time, that sounded somewhat believable? Numbers must be an ultra smart dood, or I'm just amazingly stupid. Probably the second.

I agree with BA being a big fat liar, but I find you to be a bigger problem.

Still waiting for someone to show me where I lied. Never said I'd kill cg just that I'd shoot him.

Anyways the numbers thing is super weird. So you have two vig shots and cg had a vig shot and numbers would have been lynched if any of us knew when the day ended.

Trying to get in front of the train starting all over again?

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Shooting usually involves killing, I.E. I put that down in my book as you lying, similar to phar in the breaking bad game, and look how that ended up.

Yes he did name his box (post 28) "Do not open this box / level 2". I am not sure scum pharphis would risk opening that box.

I think phar would take any risk ever, just because he could. Once again see breaking bad game, and he had the main character, and still screwed around.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Who tried to pick up a L3 box during the night phase? Absolutely serious question.

Negative, I already had my second box at the time.

Another serious question: who tried to trade boxes during the day yesterday?

Negative, I had the box I wanted, therefore had no interest in trading.

I don't agree with this assessment. I firmly believe that Numbers did indeed shoot someone, most likely Laarz.

However, that still leaves the question of whether Numbers is lying about Laarz's alignment. I think Numbers will have to be lynched at some point, just to prove whether or not he's telling the truth about Laarz.

If we assume Numbers is town, this passage reads from a Mafia PoV: Leave Numbers alive because it's more likely he'll shoot a townie than a mafia, and then we can mislynch on him in a few days.

I moved the first CG quote down to pair it with the second, so these two quotes are not right next to eachother in game terms but still, relevant point:

Beginning of day phase. CG's opinion: Believes numbers shot laarz. Will have to lynch him later to know if he is telling the truth.

Later in day phase: Call's Drixx out for wanting to lynch him later to know if he is telling the truth. I concur with your viewpoint of reading it from a mafia point of view. Its definitely a setup for later, however, you call him out for something you said earlier and then didn't even vote him on it, I think you are giving him to much slack by giving him the opportunity to dig himself out of the hole, and thus are associated. You've called him out more than once, and still no vote.

I could quote multiple posts of yours with my reply, but I'll just quote this one.

1. This is how scum-Drixx tries to convince town that someone else other than a fellow mafia should be lynched. Tacit admission that the subject in question could be scum but let's hold off and go after someone else first.

2. Every argument you gave for not lynching Numbers today can also be true for Numbers not killing a claimed power role player. Why give Numbers a free pass?

3. No "This is how scum with a vig shot would play a vig..." like in past games (multiple, as town)?

I agree with this...slightly. I don't believe Numbers and Drixx to be scum buddies. I believe that Drixx is latching onto Numbers calling Drixx a townie. More on that later.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Also, is anyone going to even bother responding to my request for suggestions on who you would prefer I shoot tonight? Right now the conversation is just circling around me, and we're accomplishing nothing else. I'm not going to waste my time responding to anything more that concerns you guys trying to lynch me, just not worth the effort when I've already laid out all the information I have to share. There is no more information I have to give you. You have to decide if you believe me or not.

If you have another shot (which I'm unsure of), then shoot (or eject) whoever you think is scum. I'm sure you have been able to gather enough opinions of people based on the interactions they had with you today. I sure have.

What is in your qt is between you and the mod. At this point in time the mod has stated that " trade box, open new box" is possible. Until we get further clarification I have to go by what's in the thread.

Has anyone else got multiple shots from a box yet? My two abilities are one shot only and it seems strange that numbers claims a multi shot ability.

No, I have not gotten multiple shots from a box yet. But different boxes seem to be ranging from worthless to amazing. So who knows what could have what.

No. I opened my box. I was rewarded with the uber valuable information that Solar Ice, Feysal, ThomasJohnson, and Korialstraz are not playing in this game. Looks like Ankeli was right about the box contents.

I did this while I still thought a trade then open was not allowed.

Last night, I tried to trade my box for a box not on the shelf list (YOUR 2 SMALL), thinking mafia would try sneaky shenanigans I described earlier. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the N1 shelf list (and why I asked if anyone did). I knew of only 1 box on the shelf N1 (YOUR 2 SMALL) because I let Sathoris know that box was on the shelf but didn't appear on the big box list.

And that completes my box mass claim. Everything else happened publicly (traded with Ankeli in twilight, trade request but no trade with you).

Your box mass claim just makes me mad at you for wasting the box mechanic, but you also appear to be the only one to not take and open a box right away and openly admit it. Why would you do that as scum since its a wasted power opportunity with every box you open. I don't think I can see a scum Gory not picking up a box and not using it right away.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Also, I don't believe numbers having any more vig shots.

CG was a vig (I believe him)

Somebody used a vig last night.

I have a vig shot.

I believe it to be possible that there us three different vigs in one game (believable), but that one of them has more than 1 shot is to me unthinkable.

Someone is lying about their vigilante shots. We've already had four people claim them.

If we have four mafia, they could potentially make 6 kills in two nights if the luck of the draw was with them. That is a broken mechanic.

If we have three mafia, they could still make 6 kills in two nights.

I think that is highly highly unlikely.

These two are pretty much related. Question for Fred though, what did you gain by claiming you had a vig shot available as well. I understand that you had a disbelief of CG, Numbers, and yourself all having vig shots, but did you really need to come out with it?

Question towards BA, with the complete randomization of who gets what box (essentially with all the random picking and trading) how do you even attempt to balance that? I don't see why there couldn't be more than two vig shots, because there is no guarantee that one side or the other will get them.

Overall though, do I think someone is lying? Yes, probably, either Numbers having an extra shot, CG having a shot at all, and or Fred having a shot at all.

I feel the same about numbers. I'd also add that he wanted to play follow the jcakes yesterday and Drixx ( the anti bus) is defending him hard. The only time I've seen Drixx defend someone this much is when they are mafia partners.

...snip....(ultra long post)
I think perhaps some folks are mistaking my questioning of the play as a defense of the person. I've got no idea whether Numbers is what he claims to be or not. We have yet to see him as scum, but he's a pretty smart guy and it's quite possible that he is indeed scum. The point; however, is that so far there isn't really any case against him.

I'd be much happier to lynch someone lurking or someone who actually has seemed scummy and see how Numbers' claims play out.

Once again moved Jcakes quote closer to Drixx's because I feel that its relevant. My opinion of the situation is much different. I don't think Drixx is defending Numbers because they are scum buddies. I think Drixx is defending Numbers because Numbers named Drixx as town, and if Drixx were to defend numbers tooth and nail, Numbers ends up being lynched, Drixx would be more likely to be considered townie, and I think he is jumping at the oppurtunity that Number's has presented him with. Based on all the lengthy posts I read in my skim this is what I got to and why I voted for Drixx initially. At this point in time I'm going to leave my vote there.

I believe you shot my friend.
To me, that makes you scum till the end!

Your friend as in your scum buddy?

Why would a level 3 box contain two shots and a level two box contain one and a level one contain one as well?

You can't predict who will end up with the boxes and you can't plan for balance. You can balance for balance, but you can't hope that X happens in the balance of the game, that's a broken game.

If you don't believe that everyone who has claimed a vigilante shot has one then you need to shoot one of the claimed vigilantes because one of them is lying.

As of now, I am banking on that being CG.

Balance with a game full of boxes that are picked is an impossibility. All of the crap boxes could end up with town, or mafia, or vice versa and it would be different every time. Any talk of a broken game when the abilities are distributed similar to a pick your own role game is rediculous.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Summary of what I think:

Scum:
Drixx - Latching onto Numbers like butter on bread (or some other really funny saying). Trying to gain town cred by defending numbers, hoping that numbers will get lynched and flip town.
Ankeli - Trying to spin Numbers immediate claim of killing Laarz. Spinning it to setup someone that is a threat to him and his teammates.
CG - Called Drixx out multiple times, but no vote. Trying to give Drixx the opportunity to get out of trouble without starting a train on him.

Town:
Jcakes - Unless his second box changed his alignment by a stroke of luck, obviously town. Duh.
Numbers - I believe his current claim of killing Laarz, only thing I see possible is a neutral with a kill ability.

Unsure:
Bad Ash - Blatently lying about abilities, but don't have anything else on him.
Fred - Think he is so focused on there being more than 2 vigs, but not much else.
Gory - His box uses are interesting, however I don't think a scum gory would waste the opportunity to gain additional powers just based on his flawed box thinking.
BPC - Post restricted, not sure on this guy, not enough there.
Zokar - Post restricted, not sure on this guy, not enough there.

Summary of my box use since people seem to be interested, and this is good a time as any. Opened first box immediately N1. Picked up next box. If you guys are smart you'll know which box I picked up next. Night two, opened that box. I don't see a reason to claim what they did at this time, or they if they were useful in the slightest. Although I will say neither were multiple shot powers.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

To clarify:
1) I believe that Numbers has a Vig ability (number of shots I am unsure of)
2) I believe that Numbers shot Laarz with his vig ability.

With these two assumptions, it seems fairly obvious that numbers could be either
1) Mafia and killed town Laarz
2) town and killed mafia Laarz
3) Neutral and killed undefined Laarz

I see your points. However I still maintain that the kill flavor on laarz is different so it was most likely not the standard night kill. If he was neutral and claimed laarz was mafia and he wasn't then he just made himself very known to the scum team.

However based on the interactions I've seen in the thread this far I maintain my viewpoints on who is scum.

 

[FredOfErik]

These two are pretty much related. Question for Fred though, what did you gain by claiming you had a vig shot available as well. I understand that you had a disbelief of CG, Numbers, and yourself all having vig shots, but did you really need to come out with it?

Nope, I did not need to come out with it and somewhat regret that I did so. I posted it at 5.20 am as I just had gotten back from a club and couldn't sleep because my room was spinning around.

I did create some interesting discussion.

Fred - Think he is so focused on there being more than 2 vigs, but not much else.

Come on now, I literally only mentioned the number of vigs one time and just to say that I do not believe numbers to have another shot.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Vote: Caluin Graye

Decent possibility that one of us is lying, i find cgs line to be very much one i could see him taking as scum.

 

[Bad Ash]

Pyro asks: how can you possibly balance a game like this...

Um by NOT including four vigilante shots. That's how.

Not sure why my post about the ability boxes is getting ignored, and the issue remains.

If there are three type of boxes 30% of the ability boxes are not vigilante shots.

When does the day end so we don't get screwed over again?

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[Bad Ash]

Unvote: Caluin Graye

Vote: Numbers

Should tell us enough and I don't want to be caught with our pants down again. I prefer cg but on my assumptions there is a 33% chance at least that numbers is scum (same as cg) and numbers has the votes.

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[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Unvote: Caluin Graye

Vote: Numbers

Should tell us enough and I don't want to be caught with our pants down again. I prefer cg but on my assumptions there is a 33% chance at least that numbers is scum (same as cg) and numbers has the votes.

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Caught with our pants down? The only people caught with their pants down today were scum when one of their teammates was unexpectedly removed.

Very weird thing to say.

 

[Bad Ash]

Caught with our pants down? The only people caught with their pants down today were scum when one of their teammates was unexpectedly removed.

Very weird thing to say.

I'm talking about the hour of posts and votes that occurred after the last day had ended.

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[Drixx]

By the way, as a bit of food for thought: Please re-read the first post and keep in mind Sathoris said this was a bastard game. The word "rewards" is in quotes. Night kill shot is a reward. If scum opens the box and gets one but town opens the box and gets 3, they still got "night kill shot" and thus the same "reward", but the amount of reward was different. The reward itself is the same. So yes, I think that it's important that the game mod put quotes around the word and I think it's possible for the amount of a given reward to be different depending upon alignment.

@Pyro - I've made a case that Numbers could be scum or could be neutral. I'm not defending him so much as I'm questioning the train against him. So far it doesn't seem to be based upon anything. He could be town (as he claims). He could be scum. He could be neutral. He hasn't said anything that really makes him look scummy or like a Policy Lynch. Most people voting for him have either cited no reason or have some bizzare "Drixx is defending him so he must be scum" reasoning. I'm not even defending numbers ... I'm questioning the whole train on him in the first place.

There's only 2 hours left. I suspect numbers is gonna end up at the required number of votes, even though there are considerably better candidates, so I'll make a prediction: I predict he either flips town or neutral. I suspect it will be town, but it's possible he ate a box that turned him into an SK or something like that. He wouldn't be the first SK to use "vigilante" as the claim, if that were the case.

Also, someone asked for some box infos: I have opened two boxes. Both gave me information. The first one was really useless information. The second one was information that will be more useful if other boxes are used. I'm a little unclear on exactly what I'll be told, but I'll share it when it happens.

 

[Sathoris]

Vote count as of now:

Bad Ash - 2 - Ankeli, DrixX
Numbers - 4 - Erik, BPC, Zokar, Bad Ash
Caluin Graye - 1 - Numbers
Zokar - 1 - Goryani
Drixx - 2 - Pyro, Jcakes

Day will end in 2 hours at 16:00 EDT. I probably wont be around but please try to stop talking after 16:00 EDT / 22:00 CET