Mass Effect Mystery Box Mafia Game

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

I started with quib quib, which i opened on night 1, and used to learn about the alignment changes. I was late after the day change, so i attempted to pick up a level 2 box( no something or something something, mobile right now, when i get home ill get you the exact name) with the intention of, as soon as the day started and the new list was up, swapping it for a level 3 if one remained. I also made the blind trade post immediately after, in case i wasnt able to swap with the shelf. My shelf swap for dont f***with aria was successful, and i immediately opened it and gained my vigilante power.

If you read sathoris posts about box opening, he specifically says that powers may only be used starting the phase after you open the box. So, for cgs box for example, he must have opened it on N1 to be able to use it D1. Had he opened it D1, he would have had to wait until D2 to use it. In my case, the box i opened D1 was not usable until N2. Had i waited to open it till N2, i would have had to wait until N3 to use it.

This is all pretty clearly explained in the box rules. Not sure where the confusion is coming from.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Roles are sent out! You will receive your first box in your QT shortly.

The game starts with a twilight phase untill 16:00 EDT / 22:00 CET tomorrow, after which we start with Night 1. During twilight you cannnot open boxes or lynch people, yet you can trade boxes. You may first open your box during Night 1. Any abilities gained from opening your box on N1 will not go into effect until the day start. Same applies if you open your box during Day 1, you will then first be able to use your boxes content during Night 2. Some boxes have special mechanics which will go into effect immediatly, those will be explained upon opening your box.

First come first served on picking up boxes from the shelf. Choosing a box which has already been picked up means you don't have another chance to pick up a box that night phase. If two players pick up the same box and the timestamp on QT is the same, you both miss out on a box for that night phase.

I'm sure not everything is 100% clear as I keep double checking stuff and changing small things. Do ask questions if need be.

Edit: First stupid mistake, so many different text files. Accidentally posted the content of some boxes in some people's QT. If you saw the message before I deleted them please let me know and I'll change the content.

Edit: You have to be truthful when you're trading boxes. You may however claim to have opened any box you say if you're not caught by someone who actually opened that box that is.

Enjoy the game! It is now twilight for 29 hours.

This is the post where sathoris clarifies when box abilities go into effect

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Confirm/deny:
During D1, you traded your box with Don't F with Aria.

Confirmation.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

I mean to add the last bit to the previous post. Logically there are only three possibilities for numbers, that I can think of:

1.) He's a townie who got opened an info box night one and picked up a vig shot box and then used the vig shot box last night and used one of X kills, and hit a Laarz.

2.) He's scum and got the info box and shared it with us for townie points. Upon seeing a 2nd kill during the night he thought incredibly quick on his feet and get that big post up right after day start in order to claim the 2nd kill as a vig kill and gain more town points.

3.) He got some other ability by opening a box ... perhaps an alignment change (which would be how he got that info) into a neutral (Serial Killer perhaps?)

It does seem like he expected the two kills with how quickly his post was up when the day started, so I would suspect the first or third options to be more likely than the second.

Let me know if I've overlooked something.

Almost right. I traded for and received the vig box on D1, which is why I was able to shoot on N2.

 

[Jcakes1]

Almost right. I traded for and received the vig box on D1, which is why I was able to shoot on N2.

So you traded a box (that you picked up N1) for a box on D1 and you also opened that box that you received in trade on the same day?

The bit that is confusing me is this:

Another addition. Thanks to Goryani for keeping me on my toes and pointing out all the loopholes

You may only perform two box actions during any given game phase. As such you may:

1. Do nothing
2. Open Box, do nothing else
3. Trade Box, do nothing else
4. Open Box, Pick up Box

Do keep in mind that picking up boxes can only be done during the night and trading between playes only during the day (duh)

The way I am reading it is that if you trade a box for a box on a shelf you can't open it that phase.

 

[Sathoris]

Two actions per game phase. Trading and opening are two legitimate options.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

I think the confusion is in option 4. That combination is what's possible, but it doesn't have to be in that order..so you can pick up a box(or trade for one), and then open one.

 

[Jcakes1]

Two actions per game phase. Trading and opening are two legitimate options.

Ok thanks. I was confused by your post that if you traded that was your only legitimate action.

 

[Sathoris]

Ok thanks. I was confused by your post that if you traded that was your only legitimate action.

One trade per game phase. So you may either trade with a player (During the day) or trade with the shelf (day and night), but not both.

 

[Bad Ash]

Lying about being able to shoot him? Still, how do you see threatening someone to use their power to your liking with the option of possible death a pro-town move?
.

Because I didn't believe he had a shot and if he did there was an extreme chance I would have avoided said shot due to box powers. If he was going to shoot someone he had an extremely high chance of shooting a townie. I was not in favor of him shooting anyone based on his gut feel so I tried to direct it towards me and had some fun doing so.

Obviously that is all moot due to his rescuing ability.

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[Drixx]

Well, with mod confirmation that Numbers could have traded for a box and then used it during the day phase yesterday, after Numbers claimed to have done so, I think I'm back to thinking that it would be a mistake to lynch numbers today. Everything about his play this game has been open and honest. He's shared info freely when he could have simply skated by without telling us anything that he has.

I am pretty sure the best course of action as regards numbers is to let the mafia kill him out of fear he might shoot another of them. If he stays alive a day or two more, then perhaps it would be wise to lynch him to confirm everything he's told us ... but I don't understand the reasoning for the votes on him at the moment.

 

[Bad Ash]

Why would the mafia kill numbers when the odds of him shooting a townie are much higher than shooting a mafia? Longer he lives though now we have some wine.

Not a reason to vote for him just throwing that out there.

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[Caluin Graye]

I am pretty sure the best course of action as regards numbers is to let the mafia kill him out of fear he might shoot another of them. If he stays alive a day or two more, then perhaps it would be wise to lynch him to confirm everything he's told us ... but I don't understand the reasoning for the votes on him at the moment.

If we assume Numbers is town, this passage reads from a Mafia PoV: Leave Numbers alive because it's more likely he'll shoot a townie than a mafia, and then we can mislynch on him in a few days.

 

[Drixx]

I agree that it's more probable, in a vacuum, for a vigilante to shoot a townie instead of scum; however, Numbers can choose to hold his remaining shot(s), or he may get a read via today's discussions. It won't be simply random chance, and I find both of you to be a bit fallacious and silly in your assertions.

You both know darn well that mafia cannot let known non-mafia killers live. Even if the odds are "in their favor", if numbers is telling the truth he already nailed on scum so why should they be comfortable that he won't spot and nail another?

Assuming Numbers is truly town, I would expect to see him dead in the morning, and we'll have to assume whomever he kills (assuming he does) is townie, since he likely won't be around to tell us.

There is more to consider as well. It is to our advantage to force the mafia's hand. How many confirmed non-scum can they let live? Jcakes is now mod confirmed town and remains alive. Numbers may have only had the one shot ... or perhaps he has another shot or two (I don't think anyone would buy more then 2-3 shot town vig, even in a bastard game) ... at which point he becomes basically a nearly confirmed vanilla townie.

I believe there is some value in getting known quantities in play and forcing the mafia to either hide within a smaller pool of unknowns or kill off people who might later help expose them should they remain alive. Right now it seems to me that Jcakes was left alive last night on the assumption that a doctor might target him since he was mod confirmed town. He would therefore be the logical kill tonight ... unless the mafia view leaving Numbers alive to possibly kill (another?) one of them as the larger threat.

Anyway ... I know it's a longer post but I was kind of thinking through these ideas while I put together this post. I hope it's cogent.

 

[Sathoris]

Quick note, this isn't a full on bastard game. Just some contents of boxes may seem a bit bastardy and you may feel a bit suckered after opening them. But there are no mechanics in play that are truly bastard. I.E a unlynchable, unkilled unlimited vig (over exaggeration for emphasis)

 

[FredOfErik]

Well, with mod confirmation that Numbers could have traded for a box and then used it during the day phase yesterday, after Numbers claimed to have done so, I think I'm back to thinking that it would be a mistake to lynch numbers today. Everything about his play this game has been open and honest. He's shared info freely when he could have simply skated by without telling us anything that he has.

I am pretty sure the best course of action as regards numbers is to let the mafia kill him out of fear he might shoot another of them. If he stays alive a day or two more, then perhaps it would be wise to lynch him to confirm everything he's told us ... but I don't understand the reasoning for the votes on him at the moment.

I agree that it's more probable, in a vacuum, for a vigilante to shoot a townie instead of scum; however, Numbers can choose to hold his remaining shot(s), or he may get a read via today's discussions. It won't be simply random chance, and I find both of you to be a bit fallacious and silly in your assertions.

You both know darn well that mafia cannot let known non-mafia killers live. Even if the odds are "in their favor", if numbers is telling the truth he already nailed on scum so why should they be comfortable that he won't spot and nail another?

Assuming Numbers is truly town, I would expect to see him dead in the morning, and we'll have to assume whomever he kills (assuming he does) is townie, since he likely won't be around to tell us.

There is more to consider as well. It is to our advantage to force the mafia's hand. How many confirmed non-scum can they let live? Jcakes is now mod confirmed town and remains alive. Numbers may have only had the one shot ... or perhaps he has another shot or two (I don't think anyone would buy more then 2-3 shot town vig, even in a bastard game) ... at which point he becomes basically a nearly confirmed vanilla townie.

I believe there is some value in getting known quantities in play and forcing the mafia to either hide within a smaller pool of unknowns or kill off people who might later help expose them should they remain alive. Right now it seems to me that Jcakes was left alive last night on the assumption that a doctor might target him since he was mod confirmed town. He would therefore be the logical kill tonight ... unless the mafia view leaving Numbers alive to possibly kill (another?) one of them as the larger threat.

Anyway ... I know it's a longer post but I was kind of thinking through these ideas while I put together this post. I hope it's cogent.

The problem with all this is that I do not at all believe the information that he is sharing.

Also, the "he will most likely be killed tonight" is an extremely poor argument not to lynch him, and exactly the way that scum would defend themselves and/or their teammates. Which both you and numbers have done.

I don't want to lynch him to confirm/deconfirm if what he is telling is the truth (even though it is a side benefit). I want to lynch him because I think he is scum.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

11 of us left alive. discounting myself, that's 10 possible targets. Jcakes is 99.9999% town, so 9 possible targets. IF my read is right on pyro and Drixx, 7 possible targets. 2-3 scum among them. If all conversation stops today, and I don't draw any further conclusions, and just shoot randomly among those people, there is a 28.5%-42.8% chance I hit scum. Odd's are definitely not in our favor for my shot being beneficial, but it's also not nearly as likely to result in an extra town death than people seem to think.

Of course, if I'm wrong about pyro or drixx, numbers get worse. If I'm wrong about BOTH of them, the numbers get a lot worse.

FoE: Which piece of information do you not believe, specifically? Do you just not believe any of it?

 

[Bad Ash]

Why are we supposed to believe ANYONE is town because of their box abilities?

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[FredOfErik]

I believe that you are scum. Not based on the information you have shared, but based on the way you have played. I for instance highligted several scenarios, that to me looks a lot like scum fishing for town cred.

I do not believe that laarz was scum and you shot him. It is possible that you shot laarz, and it is possible that he was scum. But I do not believe that you shot laarz and that he was scum.

I do not believe you have any more vig shots.

I do not believe anything you have told us.

 

[Goryani]

If you read sathoris posts about box opening, he specifically says that powers may only be used starting the phase after you open the box. So, for cgs box for example, he must have opened it on N1 to be able to use it D1. Had he opened it D1, he would have had to wait until D2 to use it. In my case, the box i opened D1 was not usable until N2. Had i waited to open it till N2, i would have had to wait until N3 to use it.

This is all pretty clearly explained in the box rules. Not sure where the confusion is coming from.

During N1, I asked Sathoris about the legality of 9 different combinations of open/pickup/trade. Number 6 was the Trade/Open combo you claimed to have done. I even submitted that exact series of events during N1. I traded my box for Scan All The Planets then tried to open it. Nothing happened. I was later told that Number 6 was not a legal action and that only 1,2,3, and 4 were legal actions. Sathoris added those options, and only those options, to the rules.

Vote: IWantToUseNumbersInMyName

I think you are lying about the series of events. I think you didn't open the box during the day. I think you had to open it at night. I think that means you couldn't have used a Don't F with Adria ability on Laarz last night.

Plus the whole thing about how mafia wants to silence town-Laarz before he can share the information about everyone's boxes more than town want to silent unknown-alignment-Laarz for the same reason.