The Shapeshifting MP Group

[maxicek]

Following the success of the Avengers project, it looks like the next MP group is Shapeshifters. This thread is for general discussion & planning

Plan to start on Saturday 6th February, if everyone is ready.

• All characters must be in Wereform a main skill. You can use backup skills in human form, but you need to be a bear or a wolf most of the time.
• Host will be 1.14d SC FAM, so your character will need to comply with this.
• Starting point will be Hell A1, no quests done, so you need to get your character to Champion solo.
• This will be all quests and waypoints, not a rush. Yes, even A2 Halls of the Dead. We will kill Nihlathak, but taking the WP is up to you.
• I plan on hosting games at about 14.00 EST / 19.00 GMT / 20.00 CET, Saturdays & Sundays. Each session lasting about 2-3 hours, depending on peoples availability
• If anyone wants to host parallel sessions for HC or a different timezone, you are very welcome.

 

[ffs]

Awesome. Couple of weeks break sounds good... but not too long! Otherwise I'll go mad from doing Baal runs with HC Barb.

Same setting right, start in A1 Hell with no quests completed?

I'll go with Amazon. Been meaning to play a Bearzon for a while, with a shortlist of 10 weapon choices or so. Mostly boils down to 6 FPA with a heavy hitting 2-hander vs. 4-5 FPA with 1-hander or a fast bow/crossbow.

 

[D2DC]

Grumble grumble.. I guess I have no choice..

I may have to start "double dipping" these characters though.. Making a character from one of my other projects that just so happens to MP on Hell. Only other thing coming to mind is that I haven't made a WolfBarb since my last restart. If nobody else is playing Barb, I may do that.

 

[skiffcz]

Well ... I was thinking about the barb actually. I have 6/6/6 wolfhowl and 294ED ribby in a pindle MFO stash. It looks more and more appealing to me. Since I dont have Beast and will try to avoid druid at all costs. But you beat me to it so its your choice (or we just both go barbs )

 

[D2DC]

No, ahead with the Barb if thats your plan. It was your post that made me think about it anyway!

I have a Beast (I think..). So, I can come up with something.

 

[PhineasB]

I may go Druid unless someone else wants that route. eTomby needs more use, and it seems like a good option for Fireclaw Bear, and will tick off the second of my 2H melee sept.

I can also do a Bearsin if someone can get into the group only with a Druid. In fact, I may go that route anyway after I play around with gear options a bit. Bramble and Venom seem like they should be solid option.

I’ll need to level either from scratch, so not this weekend but by next should be able to have one ready to play during that slot.

 

[maxicek]

I personally wouldn’t go this way in a p8 game (I think the damage will be too low) but I have a 3os Runics of Quickness if anyone wants to go for 3FPA bearsin.

Maybe it can work with 1.07 damage charms.

 

[D2DC]

I may go Druid unless someone else wants that route.

Let me know your plan, because I may go Druid as well. Are we allowed to have 2x Druids? I could do something very different like a Shockwave Bear or something.

Re: Shockwave

Okay, we found another skill that was never maxed in the compilation.

Sounds like a good time to try it out!

 

[maxicek]

I was thinking about PIs, if Phineas is going FC this will help. I may go Bearsorc as mine is lvl76 and just finished NM. This will give us another PI solution and Enchant of course. Palabear is also a possibility, I was thinking of going Fanatacism for that but could equally be Holy Freeze.

Edit: Anyone know what happens to the faster block rate breaks in bearform if you use Holy Shield?
Edit2: The AB Wiki has it of course. 6 frame with 0 FBR. Is that workable do you think?

 

[ffs]

Decrepify procs will help with most PIs, maybe even AD if someone goes Necro or uses Brand. When made in a Demon Crossbow (-60 WSM), Brand is a pretty good weapon for shapeshifters.

When going Sorc/Paladin, are you considering Dreams as well? That solves everything except unbreakable LI+PI rolls. A bit cheesy of course in particular Bearsorc damage is absurd, almost feels like cheating... If Dreams, personally I wouldn't worry much about block tbh, neither with Sorc nor Pally. Max block is definitely an option (I even tried safety amulets and gear like that at some point), but ultimately these chars are just completely fine without it. They need good hit recovery, but that's easy in bear form. Never encountered any survival issues from not having block with such builds.

Re Dream-less bear builds, I actually explored some with both Sorc and Pally in recent years, maybe they can provide some ideas:

• Fiery Sorc with HoJ and dual Dragon for high level Holy Fire and Hydra synergies. Struggled a bit vs FIs when solo'ing >P5, but solid overall.
• Tri-elemental Bear Pally using Holy Shock himself, plus Holy Freeze from Ice Demon Crossbow and Holy Fire on HoJ/Dragon switch. He was extremely fun and quite strong.

 

[PhineasB]

I am leaning toward eBotD Bearsin with Bramble. Ice Wielding Fire Rogue would be pretty nice complement, assuming someone else has Faith running, with Infinity and Reapers A2 mercs.

But if more helpful for the coop play, I could also go with a wolf Druid with Fireclaws (or Earthshifter Fury Druid?) so we have two different wereforms even if two players select Druids.

I’ll see how the rest of the party sorts out and plan to fill the gap, as I need to level both classes to Hell for my planned 2H melee sept anyhow

 

[skiffcz]

I sorted through my stashes and I'll most probably go (near) max vita crushing blow wolf. I also have the option to wear atma's for the most stubborn PIs, and it won't clash with your decrep. Other option is lifetap, but I guess we all will have enough leech. Never played werebuild, so you guys tell me.

I can take reapers a2 merc with aura of our choice (defiance? blessed aim?), but staying in the theme of something I've never done before, maybe harmony rogue if all the required auras are covered?


Ofcourse I'll Shout a lot, so you guys make sure to pack some Arkaine's 'Zod' Valors to see some absurd numbers. Are we still playing d2 or is this World of Tanks?

 

[maxicek]

I have decided to go for a Holy Freeze + Dual Dream Paladin bear. I am calling any bear build using HF a Polar Bear now. I'm just disappointed I can't transform into a white bear.

Spoiler

If a Paladin Bear uses a defensive aura he is clearly a Panda.
If you use Fanaticism it should be a Grizzly

Now I need to decide what weapon to use. It is so much easier when using a two hander, the choices are more limited...

My Shortlist:
Griswold's Caddy = 4 FPA - Fast but otherwise unremarkable
60 IAS Phase Blade = 4 FPA - Possibly use 3 remaining sockets for facets
5 Shael Runemaster = 5 FPA - CBF potentially frees up other slots
Stormlash 'Shael' = 6 FPA with 25IAS off weapon - CB, static, ctc effects but much slower.

Anything obvious I am missing?

The other thing I need is a suitable name. As you may have realised with my characters by now, often the name comes first...

 

[ffs]

Been revisiting attack speed numbers for Bearzon to sketch out a setup. Currently I'm seeing these options:

Spoiler

6 FPA with 2-handers

• Oath Champion Sword (don't have one yet)
• Oath Highland Blade (have one with 338 ED)
• upped Buriza 'Shael'
• Rare hyperion spear (40 IAS, 369 ED) just for style points

Seems to me that 'Oath' is the best of these options.

Oath CS can ramp up dmg a lot as IAS needs leave room for Fortitude and Might Merc with Reaper or Pride (80 off-weapon IAS required).
Oath HB (my available Oath option) would need either Fana or Treachery to hit 6 FPA (105 off-weapon IAS required).

Would have to roll the dice on the one CS base I have, don't have an endless supply of runes. The damage range can make it frustrating to roll. If it doesn't work out, I guess I'd just go with the HB.

6 FPA with 1-handers

• Anything in a PB, e.g. Grief, Crescent Moon, Hand of Justice (could be paired with Dragon armor/shield)
• Stormlash 'Shael'
• CtA made in a bow

Not liking these options much tbh, except for the fact that the Grief variant would make for smooth (but boring) sailing.

5 FPA (1h)

• Runemaster with IAS socketed
• upped Goldstrike Arch 'Shael'
• Azurewrath (but the knockback is annoying)

Some interesting choices, but if 1h there's little reason not to go 4 FPA.

4 FPA (1h)

• Gris Caddy
• 6os PB with IAS/adds. But Caddy seems better... unless I burn some of the best jewels in all of my stashes for one-time use with this build

There are several 7 FPA options (BotD, Tomb Reaver) but I don't want to go slower than 6 FPA for this one.

I'm leaning towards either 6 FPA with Oath, or 4 FPA with Gris Caddy. If 4 FPA that also raises the shield question. Phoenix procs too annoying?

If I'm missing some other promising options, please don't hold back!

EDIT: Haha @maxicek only saw that post now, pretty much same thing.

 

[ffs]

@maxicek

Another option is Crescent Moon PB. On the slow side with 6 FPA, but comes with the great -35 ELR, very helpful ITD and some Static CtC as well. Great fit for all Dream builds even if not the fastest option. (I don't time travel myself, but if you have it the beta version is even better ofc.)

That being said 4 FPA is very appealing indeed. Vast majority of damage is elemental, so applying that as quickly as possible makes sense and is just so much fun. As for Caddy vs PB, both have pros and cons but in the end I always ended up preferring the Caddy for better leech in comparison to the PB.

 

[maxicek]

I looked at Azurewrath too, but don't forget clvl85 requirements....
I have eth Champion Swords both in 1.07 and 1.10+ if you need one. I'm going to use one when I do my Necro Bear with synergised Bone Spirit.

Replying to this here to avoid hijacking @ffs pat thread:

@maxicek speaking of OP, I had an absolute blast with my dual dream frosty palabear, linked here, and my favorite of the entire 7x7. He was a total wrecking ball and very sturdy.

Very nice. If I had a 40IAS Grief I would definately go this way. I don't want to re-roll Grief PBs just for this though, so I'm looking at alternatives.

@ffs I thought about CM, I may be able to make a Beta one too. Maybe I will re-look at it.

 

[skiffcz]

...
My Shortlist:
Griswold's Caddy = 4 FPA - Fast but otherwise unremarkable
...

Wait ... uh, yeah this thing exists, and it gets (plugs it into the calc) eh, 3fpa feral rage? Is that real? I remember 2fpa bearsin being somehow borked, is this legit 3 fpa? Like in 3fpa animation, 3fpa on the backend, 3fpa everything?

 

[D2DC]

Yea, @Grape made a 3fpa wolf with it.

I am trying to avoid using 'Beast', because I plan to do a Sept/at least use it on all 7 classes. I don't think they would have too much trouble soloing, and I'd rather not "double-dip" my projects. If @skiffcz is going WolfBarb, that leaves me with a Druid. Are we going to allow more than one? If someone is going Fireclaws, I will make a Rabies or Shockwave something.

 

[ffs]

I have eth Champion Swords both in 1.07 and 1.10+ if you need one.

That's alright, thanks though! I'll just go with whatever is the best suited Oath I have, if I end up going that route.

@ffs I thought about CM, I may be able to make a Beta one too. Maybe I will re-look at it.

Yeah, even though it's 6 FPA, for DPS/clear speed it's likely similarly strong as 4 FPA or even faster overall. Even on P8, the only thing that doesn't die immediately is LIs. Broken LIs do slow things down when running without - enemy resist, whereas the -35 ELR speeds up those fights enormously. With the beta version providing 20% CtC Static... GG.

But to be honest, I only compared all those options on a Dream/Zeal Pally, not with Dream/Bear Pally. With Zeal, the drawback with CM was that leech was lacking a bit and phyiscal dmg vs. unbreakable LIs was too weak. In the end Grief was my clear #1 choice for him as it solved both of these issues and helped vs broken LIs as well. But Grief is also super fast with Zeal, whereas for Bear attack speed is more complicated. On the other hand Bear is sturdier, arguably doesn't need significant leech at all. In any case more interesting to balance and experiment around with.

 

[PhineasB]

Anything obvious I am missing?

Grief is quite ridiculous on this character, and even losing a frame isn’t end of the world due to ability to have three meaningful damage types (plus some poison for a fourth supplemental). But the fastest attack from Caddy would be my choice if aiming for fastest attack for elemental type damage.

@D2DC please go with whatever Druid build you’d like. I’m going to run an Assassin after all.