Cassius - HC Untwinked Staff Charger

[DariusTriplet]

I picked up the game again after a ~year off, with the goal of building a Staff Charger. I can't resist making things extra obnoxious for myself, so I'll be playing with the following restrictions:

1. Except for the starting Short Sword, Cassius can use staves only, and has to swap ASAP
2. Since staves have very low requirements, all stat points go to Vitality
3. HC untwinked, so I get the full staff frustration experience
4. Charge will be the main attack...eventually

The two luxuries I'm reserving are re-running areas (with one in particular in mind), and not committing to any players settings. I'd like to keep it as high as possible, but if I have to cheese a boss/area, so be it.

The genesis of this character was a few factors:

1. I've never really used Charge outside of 1.05 (where I hated it, but it wasn't the skill's fault)
2. Staves are cool, and Insight is a really good runeword. ~50% Deadly Strike on a Charge weapon is completely bananas.
3. @Pb_pal made Staff Chargers sound incredibly fun with Gary_Lasereyes
4. I expect the early game to be particularly interesting, since normal staves deal terrible damage. I have a few things in mind, but it's going to be a real challenge to get through Normal.

I have a few questions - namely, how useful Vengeance is vs. PIs on a Conviction Charger - but I suspect I'll be learning a lot about Chargers, staves, and elemental/+damage as I go

I played for a bit tonight (up to the Stony Field WP) and have had oddly good luck finding, of all things, Short Staves. I found a Buckler of Deflecting in the Blood Moor, which I swapped to Akara for this beauty:


Fear me. Two chippies later, I have 2-11 elemental damage and chill, which is about as good as it gets at this point. Bishibosh spawned right near the Cold Plains WP, which was convenient for the easy superunique experience.

Blood Raven was weirdly easy, since Cassius put one point into Holy Fire with a -10 AS weapon. At 9-35 damage, her undead fell quickly, and after lots of chasing Cassius was joined by a rogue mercenary. I suspect that the good times won't last forever as the 6-18 damage on Holy Fire won't keep up, but I'll enjoy it while it lasts. I shopped a 3os Long Staff, so if I run into issues, I might farm Gem Shrines and raise up three Perfect Rubies for 45-60 damage.

 

[hackedagainanda]

Exciting! I'll be watching your journey, I do think staffs are very underrated weapons in D2 with the exception of Ribby. Please keep us updated, I'm already in love with this character

 

[Swamigoon]

I'm looking forward to reading about your project, DariusTriplet! I'm secretly hoping a Serpent Lord drops for you - I've always wondered if there's a way to make it do sufficient damage for its 100% mana leech to effectively provide "infinite mana" to your character.

 

[saracen85]

All the best! And yes, Insight is pretty much a cheat code throughout

Imo AR and chance to hit is the key to charging. Knocking back enemies from one edge of the screen to the other is fun, but in no way the most efficient way to charge.

As for PIs, 1point Sanctuary is a cheap way to deal with them. This is mainly for undead though (perfect for ghosts/skellies etc, enough not to be too frustrated in Arcane Sanctuary at least)

Also, take note of FHR, even if you'll be having high Vita. Paladins have poorer FHR breakpoints with Staves.

 

[Pb_pal]

YES!

Chargers are a bit difficult to get used to, but man are they ever fun once you get the hang of it. As you said, Insight is great and that should give you a great weapon throughout. Good luck, I'll be watching this closely!

 

[DariusTriplet]

One thing that's kind of crummy about staves is that they cannot be gambled, so my usual plan for Acts 1 and 2 - use the players 8 experience to "boost" my weapon selection via Gheed - doesn't really apply. However, my mercenary is not subject to such limitations:

This was a tremendous help through mid Act 1, where a 5-11 damage bow is keeping up with Cassius's damage. Unfortunately, staff damage is still so poor that I was reliant on Holy Fire for melee damage, so I wasn't able to boost my mercenary via Might. Thankfully, between my mercenary and Holy Fire, damage kept up through the Act.

I found my first unique - Stoutnail - in Tristram. The 10-16 damage taunted me, given that I was still using a 1-5 damage Short Staff...

The Black Marsh WP was near the Tower, so I put in some Countess runs. I quickly found Tal and Eth, which made:

The best armor usable so far at base Paladin strength (25) - I suspect I'll be leaning on this for a long time to come. Cassius wasn't a total wet noodle, thanks to a +3 strength Large Charm, but no need to flaunt it with Studded Leather yet (although I do prefer the look).

There were no shortage of bosspacks in the Cathedral areas, so Cassius leveled to 18 (Holy Freeze, Vigor) and 19 in short order. 19 was particularly exciting since it opened up this unusual weapon:

I was concerned about how I'd beat Andariel, but the Countess was very generous with Rals, so I shoved three into a Long Staff. With Holy Freeze, Cassius dealt enough damage to now one- or two-shot most monsters in the Catacombs, which came just when the trusty ol' Gemmed Short Staff wasn't cutting it anymore. Most notably, the 15-90 damage gets multiplied against Andariel, which paid dividends - combined with the chill from Holy Freeze and the poison resist from Antidotes, the battle was almost leisurely. While this weapon would be stellar in Act 1, I feared that it would start to lose potency in Act 2 - for example, Burning Dead have 50% Fire Resist in Normal, reducing its average damage to a mere 26. I also knew that I'd need to get some real physical damage to take advantage of Might and Charge, and that I couldn't lean on +elemental damage forever. Back to the Countess, then over to Drognan for:

I had hoped to shop a 4os Battle Staff for an extra 9 maximum damage, but you can't get 4os weapons in Normal! The next weapon tier will be War Staff (12-28 base), which I'll need to number-crunch to compare if Strength, Malice, or IthIthIth/SolSolSol makes for the best weapon. I don't know offhand if the socketing recipe is limited to the difficulty cap; I'd love to make an Insight War Staff but it may just not be possible.

I've picked up the Cube, so Cassius is keeping up with monsters, although I don't know how much longer he can lean on his Long Staff. I believe that the Ith Battle Staff will fuel Charges forever, but I haven't found any mana leech sources yet, so Normal Attack is carrying the day. I haven't had to drop under p8 yet - even for Andariel - so here's to hoping that the damage keeps up. I've tried Charge out against fleeing monsters, but it's mostly a novelty skill so far, since I can only Charge down one monster before having an empty bulb.

@Swamigoon Sadly, Serpent Lord didn't drop I'd have loved to try it out, since it can fuel Charge forever by itself, but the fates just didn't want it to see use this run.

@saracen85 Thanks for the tip! I didn't know about the FHR penalty - hopefully Cassius's inflated HP will keep hit recovery limited, but I'll keep an eye out for FHR.

 

[Pb_pal]

Great progress! I know by the time you get the ingredients, this likely will be beaten out by Insight and other runewords, but crafting is a thing too.

The hitpower recipe should work on staves IIRC, so a decent way to try for an interim weapon if you're struggling with other options.

 

[DariusTriplet]

Great progress! I know by the time you get the ingredients, this likely will be beaten out by Insight and other runewords, but crafting is a thing too.

The hitpower recipe should work on staves IIRC, so a decent way to try for an interim weapon if you're struggling with other options.

Thanks! Hit Power is a really good idea since it comes with the ED% automod, and it's theoretically craftable as soon as I find a Gem Shrine/hit the 'Forge + can shop War Staves. I'll definitely give it a shot

 

[Luhkoh]

Very cool project! I also am a big fan of pb_pals gary laseryes! Will look foward to following this for sure.

I don't know offhand if the socketing recipe is limited to the difficulty cap

It does not. 4os cannot drop in normal, but they CAN be cubed/larzuk'd as long as the ilvl is sufficient for 4os.

 

[Zyr]

I'll be following this thread with great interest. I have a couple of HC characters on battle.net wielding "Insight" staves: An Orb/melee Enchantress, lvl 86, and a Concentrate/WW Barb, lvl 84. There's just something about carrying a big stick...

I'm sure you're past it now, but I've also had a lot of fun with "Leaf" leveling Holy Fire Paladins.

 

[DariusTriplet]

Next up, the Desert. I had no real issues in the Maggot Lair, as Cassius's high HP (~450) for this segment allowed him to tank bugs while his mercenary picked off monsters. I was definitely feeling the drop-off in mercenary damage, though; while I've made Guardian with the Normal quest reward mercenary before, I really found myself needing a bit more firepower due to Cassius's pitiful damage. Since I still don't have any +AR skills - 9 mana/Charge is too pricey - I hired a Blessed Aim mercenary from Griez and gave him a gambled Pike. I also put some hard points into Might to get it to +100% ED, just to make the mental math easier on its impact. The difference was absolutely remarkable; instead of slowly taking on a few monsters at a time, the mercenary was two-shotting most normal monsters in the Lost City and Viper Temple. The difference in damage was so stark that, by the time Cassius would finish off one Burning Dead, his mercenary would have polished off the rest and would be working on the Unraveler It definitely felt like a reversal from normal mercenary use, where Cassius was a Might battery + tank for the real hero of the pair.

I was excited to try something out that, in 20 years of playing this game, I had never done before. However:

Why, of all the quest items, does the Horadric Staff require 30 strength?! While the Staff would deal less damage than Cassius's Ith Stick (16 v. 23 average), I wanted to try the +50% IAS and sheer style of bopping monsters with a legendary artifact. Besides, I could then legitimately claim that I broke the Horadric Staff

I skipped the Sewers since I didn't want to fight Burning Deal with the Ral Stick, so I went back and cleared them now. Cassius was at clvl 23, so I just Vigored on down, fought bosses only, and found Radament in no time at all. I mentioned in the Anything Goes thread that the WP was bugged for me - hopefully not an omen for things to come! In general, thanks to Vigor and Cassius's slow kill speed, I've just been focusing on fighting bosses so far. It hasn't really negatively impacted his experience gain, and has helped keep things moving along, which is a nice bonus during what could be a very slow period in the game.

Once I hit clvl 25, I took my mercenary out in the Canyon of the Magi to level, since I cubed up this:

Similar damage to his Vicious Pike, but much faster, and only required +10 strength from Amethyst sockets to equip. After the Might boost, the mercenary was quite deadly!

I also paid my traditional visit to an old friend:

In pre-1.10 patches, he was easily in the top five most dangerous monsters in the game (and was purple); now, he's brown and fell in seconds to the Savage Bill.

I planned on fighting Duriel at players 8, but on my first trip down, disaster struck. Duriel immediately focused on my mercenary, dropped him in seconds, then started working on Cassius. Between the Holy Freeze, slow attack rate on Battle Staves, and constant hit recovery, Cassius was barely able to hit Duriel - and when he did, he barely scratched him. I really wanted to be able to say that I beat Normal on p8, but I Save & Exited and went back in on p1 - if you read my old Classic threads, I feel that I've paid my dues to the Lord of Pain, and this really was not the character/fight to die proudly with. Before going back down, I gambled a 16-42 fire damage Circlet, which I think was enough to change Duriel's AI script; instead of homing in on my mercenary, he instead chased Cassius around the Chamber, and I was able to run him in a circle as my mercenary poked him to death. Awkwardly, I could have won the fight on p8 this way, but I certainly did not expect Duriel's AI to change so significantly between attempts.

On to Act 3, where the Spider Forest was more or less unexciting, and the Eye was picked up without much hassle. My hope is that the Savage Bill will carry Cassius until I'm able to make Insight and/or start Charging regularly, but I'm not terribly optimistic. I did shop a magic War Staff from Ormus, do Gem Shrine runs until I made a Perfect Sapphire, and tried my hand at crafting:

It's an upgrade over the Ith Stick (30 vs. 23 average, with life leech), but I really would have liked a second magic affix, and some mana leech. Cassius is currently level 26, so it'll be a short while until he can actually use this thing - still, nice to know that an upgrade's on the horizon.

 

[D2DC]

I was excited to try something out that, in 20 years of playing this game, I had never done before.

Horadric Staff is my second favorite twinking item.

 

[zemaj]

I love staves, always awesome weapons, and that "THWACK" is just so satisfying.

I love Charge. So much fun, especially with an 'Insight' so never having to wait for blue bulb to fill.

Definitely keeping an eye on this one! Great idea!

 

[maxicek]

I’m assuming end game target will be an insight Shillelagh or something? Are you going to have to find all the strength required via gear?

 

[DariusTriplet]

I’m assuming end game target will be an insight Shillelagh or something? Are you going to have to find all the strength required via gear?

Ideally, yeah - my goal is an Insight Elder Staff/Shillelagh/Archon Staff, which have modest requirements (44/37, 52/27, 34/0). Paladins start at 25/20, so it's only a difference of 19/17, 27/7, and 9/0 - nothing that charms can't make up for. Insight itself gives +5 stats, so IIRC I can use gemmed gear to pick it up, then swap off and let Insight carry itself.

I'm more concerned about armor, since exceptionals/elites are going to be difficult to hoist.

 

[saracen85]

I'm more concerned about armor, since exceptionals/elites are going to be difficult to hoist.

If you are lucky, Naj Armor. Great mods, ridiculously low reqs. Otherwise, Lionheart. -Reqs with stat boosts.

 

[DariusTriplet]

Cassius forged ahead through Act 3 without much headache, although he was increasingly dead weight next to the mercenary. Vigor blew right through the jungles and Kurast, and bosses were dealt with by keeping the mercenary's health topped up while trying not to eat too much damage. The combination of a Savage Bill + some life leech + Might kept the mercenary going - not even the Forgotten Temple posed any real threat to Razan and Cassius. The usual process of baiting out single members of the High Council, then dropping them, did the trick, but Cassius didn't do much of anything for it. I did drop to players 1 for Mephisto, primarily on merit that the damage multiplier vs. hirelings would make it an unpleasant experience otherwise. Cassius could deal very little damage, and with no source of mana leech, leaning on the Charge bonus just wasn't viable at all. The crafted War Staff made for good Charging, but its normal attack was so slow that I went back to the Ith Stick.

While Act 3 wasn't terribly exciting, Act 4 was a different story entirely. The Savage Bill really dropped off in power here - while it was fine versus single monsters, any kind of pack was just out of the question. Thanks to Vigor, I was able to do the fancy footwork to split up bosspacks, but it just took so long and was so tedious that I really wasn't enjoying the character very much. I was at the point that bosspacks required multiple Town Portals to finally defeat, and I wasn't even bothering with non-bosses, due to the poor experience and loot for the time spent. The mercenary was able to defeat Izual (thanks to him focusing on Cassius), but in general things just weren't looking good. I cleared the River of Flame and Hellforge (Ith, ironically), but every inch felt like a mile, and I dreaded the Chaos Sanctuary + Diablo + Act 5. I knew that a change would be needed, so I did something I should've done from the beginning:


1) Go back to Akara
2) Respec
3) On @Zyr's advice, buy a 2-socket staff for:

(Fitting that, after all this, I go back to the 2-socket Short Staff!)

Yep, it's Holy Fire time. I thought about Holy Freeze, but given that the new build would only need to get me through some of Nightmare, Holy Fire seemed like it would have better immediate impact. To say that it was an improvement would be an understatement; Cassius went from dealing under 100 average damage to 500, and swinging with a -10 weapon instead of a 20. Now, monsters fell in 2-3 hits from him and not the mercenary, whose Blessed Aim was much more useful now that Cassius was actually attacking. I put all of his skill points into Holy Fire, then Resist Fire - nothing in Combat Skills, since I'm still technically playing as a Charger. All points went back into Vitality - it was nice to respec and not see all those red items

With the new build, the Chaos Sanctuary on players 8 was slow (in part due to high fire resist), but not intolerable. For the first time since Act 1, Cassius felt like he was doing something - while I'm sure that Holy Fire will taper off soon, I hope that it won't be until after Charge comes into its own. Diablo, though, was a different story - even at players 1, he was dreadful to fight, thanks to the pink hose threatening to one-shot(!!) Cassius. I mostly just ran around, let Holy Fire pulses deal their low damage, and occasionally got hits in when I didn't expect a hose. The fight took a long time, but Cassius prevailed; I'd hate to try it on anything higher than p1, though.

On to Act 5, where the lower fire resists meant that Holy Fire was really fantastic. I did some Eldritch+Shenk runs, which ironically dropped this:

I'll take it as a good sign It's worse than the Leaf staff due to attack speed, but dealt very slightly higher damage overall.

I did my decades-old pattern for Act 5 Normal: p8 the Foothills, p1 the outdoors areas, p8 the caves. It was nice to see maxed Holy Fire one-shot (p1) Gremlins in the Frigid Highlands, especially after the difficulties of Act 4. Overall, Act 5 was completely unremarkable, although I started gambling Boots and Gloves hoping to upgrade some gear from junky Act 1 magics. Cassius felt like any other late-bloomer character, albeit struggling a bit even after getting through the awkward 30s. The Ancients at p1 weren't much trouble at all, and I did drop the players setting down to 5 for the Minions of Destruction + Baal; Lister was remarkably tough, to the point that Cassius + Razan could barely keep ahead of natural healing. Baal himself wasn't easy, but was far less threatening than Diablo - I did have to hop back to town to restock on potions, but after 5-10 minutes of whacking him with a Short Staff...

See you in Nightmare - home of 4-socket staves I usually do Baal runs until they start feeling unrewarding, but I think this time I'll just skip to Nightmare and forge ahead until I can find a new weapon.

One technical question - do merchants not sell Staves of Teleport? I ran Malah a bunch of times and didn't see any, and while I could just have poor luck, I'm not sure if Teleport charges are somehow special regarding vendors.

 

[Zyr]

Congratulations on the progress! Glad the "Leaf" SS is working well for you. Note that after you respec Cassius, the "Leaf" will sell for 35000 in Hell. But it would also be a highly useful tool for a fiery Trapper, and one of my Fire Druids used one until Hell Act I because I hadn't come up within anything better.

Salamander == Late Leaf Lite.

One technical question - do merchants not sell Staves of Teleport?

They do. I learned from watching videos of speed runners that the best place to shop them is Ormus in Act III normal.

 

[DariusTriplet]

I haven't been playing a tremendous amount, but Cassius forged ahead a bit in Nightmare. Holy Fire + thwacking things with his Leaf Staff were sufficing on players 5 NM in Act 1, so while I really did want to start Charging, there wasn't a great rush quite yet. I did have the good fortune of finding a +1 Paladin skills amulet, which gave Holy Fire a nice and much-needed boost partway through the act, and this beauty dropped in the Dark Wood:

The Blinds Target, Freeze, and Slow were absolutely tremendous, even though the damage isn't stellar. So far, I've had no real crowd control beyond whacking monsters with a stick. Woestave gave Cassius and Razan a fighting chance by slowing/freezing/blinding, which let me remove monsters from combat while focusing on others. Damage-wise, it was about on par with the Savage Bill, so I was glad to make the swap.

I did have a very strange moment when rescuing Cain:

That was a first for me! Cassius seems to be cursed with odd map events. Thankfully, reloading the game spawned the portal, so I was able to save Cain and collect a junky rare ring.

I was hoping for a 4os War Staff to drop in Act 1, but to no avail, so I soldiered on with Holy Fire + Normal Attack. Thankfully, this was enough to get through, although it was clear that it was tapering off quickly - between monster resists, damage more or less being maxed out around 900 avg, and Woestave not keeping up damage-wise, I definitely felt the difficulty increase as I went through the Cathedral and Catacombs. By the end, I think I played on players 3, just to get the Act over with - the only possible weapon upgrade would be a 4os War Staff, and it was unlikely I'd find a 4os Partizan in Act 1. Mercifully, Andariel's low fire resist allowed Cassius to quickly take her out on p1, although like a dunce I forgot to talk to Warriv right after - so much for an easy MF run!

If I felt the pinch in Act 1, I really felt it in Act 2. In addition to damage troubles, Cassius just couldn't hit anything at all - Leaf gives no +AR, and his only sources were rings and a Blessed Aim
mercenary. His to-hit was hovering around 50-55% for Act 2, which really took a toll on kill speed; I ended up ignoring most monsters in the desert, and the Maggot Lair was a real slog to get through. I did have some useful drops (Ko rune, 3os Breast Plate) but Cassius's luck really turned around when this dropped:

War Staves deal 20 average damage, which is on par with exceptionals up until Rune Staves (40 avg), so a 4os War Staff was as good as it would get for at least an Act or two. I still had yet to find a Sol rune, so I dropped what I was doing and set to NM Countess runs, hoping to quickly get two Sols out of her (one for Insight, one to upgrade Woestave). Frustratingly, she was strangely reticent with Sols, dropping multiple Hels, Amns, Ios, and lower runes, but one drop made me jump out of my chair....

Spoiler

I thought I had a screenshot of the drop, but this'll do.

I immediately ran back to Akara and hit the respec button - it was Charge time I put 20 points into Charge, enough in Conviction for -70% defense, and the rest into Charge synergies (and all stats into Vitality). All told, Cassius's Charge dealt ~1000 damage on average - only slightly better than Holy Fire, but his to-hit was far higher even without Blessed Aim thanks to Charge+Conviction. I went ahead and swapped the mercenary for Holy Freeze, since I was hoping for crowd control + additional cold damage, although I don't think this will be my endgame mercenary.

I tried out Charge a bit, and it was tremendous fun, but I had a problem - I still had zero sources of leech! The Viper Temple was slow going, due to lack of leech and tight quarters (and Vipers charging right back post-Charge), but Cassius had no problems cleaning up in the Sewers. I might have to go back to Normal Baal until he coughs up some low-end exceptionals (String of Ears, Rockstopper) and ideally a Manald Heal, or just forge ahead through the rest of Act 2. I've stopped off right after getting the Staff, but I might take a break and go MF a bit.

 

[Vildecor]

Congrats on the Ribcracker! Seeing that would have made me jump out of the chair too!