The PvP Thread
- Thread starter nulio
- Start date
Pyrohemia
Member
- Mar 31, 2020
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I good BvA has a GG crown of ages. If you are pure BvC then Arreat's is fine.
Thanks for the duels everyone. I'm not sure how much of the ping I even noticed given how out of practice I am.
Thanks everyone, had lots of fun! Starting to get the hang of things... plus the adrenaline cured my minor vaccine covid aches, so there you have it, D2 PvP is conducive to your health. 
Great to see @nulio around, hope you'll be able to join next time!
Got a couple more chars on my to do list as well, but still some farming needed to equip them properly. And it's mostly really grindy stuff like Anya claw shopping and Trav farming/gambling... Being self-found isn't exactly helpful for PvP.
Great to see @nulio around, hope you'll be able to join next time!
Got a couple more chars on my to do list as well, but still some farming needed to equip them properly. And it's mostly really grindy stuff like Anya claw shopping and Trav farming/gambling... Being self-found isn't exactly helpful for PvP.
- Apr 4, 2020
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Good games, everyone. Good to see you again, @Pyrohemia even though ping is as it is. It was visible delay on your part with teleporting, 200 fcr sorc teleported like she had 40 or something.
For now I need to take rest from gaming, 3 days in a row is a bit much for my old bones
Here are few videos, as usual. Very fun 1v1 against @ffs who is quickly picking up on how things are supposed to work. Here are two fights between us, java vs nec and java vs windy.
And last video shows a new strategy I started to learn and apply with BvC. I figured namelock + stomp Whirlwind is way too slow to work against fast moving spellcasters, so what I do is make whirling without namelock upon approach not giving time to my enemies to react and THEN namelock stomp when I have a chance before they escape. As a result I miss many times, I hit many times and I kill with random whirling predicting where opponent will go. I noticed how much power this gives to BvC and it makes him a force to face.
For now I need to take rest from gaming, 3 days in a row is a bit much for my old bones
Here are few videos, as usual. Very fun 1v1 against @ffs who is quickly picking up on how things are supposed to work. Here are two fights between us, java vs nec and java vs windy.
And last video shows a new strategy I started to learn and apply with BvC. I figured namelock + stomp Whirlwind is way too slow to work against fast moving spellcasters, so what I do is make whirling without namelock upon approach not giving time to my enemies to react and THEN namelock stomp when I have a chance before they escape. As a result I miss many times, I hit many times and I kill with random whirling predicting where opponent will go. I noticed how much power this gives to BvC and it makes him a force to face.
- Aug 5, 2005
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One of the problems with PvP in D2 is it can be a bit Rock-Paper-Scissors. A Ghost is hard on an ES sorc with poison an OW damage. Ghost isn't going to win a WW battle against a BvC. Windy is hard for a smiter thanks to minion stack. Best solution is to make more characters
As for weekly recap, we had couple new faces, both completely new and returnees. PvP scene looks pretty healthy overall and it's nice to see it growing. I'm glad more people are trying PvP out and I hope more of you will. I'll see about streaming future games, but with me constantly going afk and no voiceover it's far from entertaining. Still it's something we can thinker with.
I will try to do full reinstall on my hosting laptop and see if this fixes anything. Right now install on my PC and laptop are 100% the same and I really have no idea why hosting isn't working from latop. Playing all day on same character is kinda boring after a while, especially because, as Max said, D2 pvp can be very imbalanced in terms of matchups and such. Just on the basis of having right/wrong character your experience can vary wildly.
Next weekend it is. If someone wants game any time during this week let me know.
I will try to do full reinstall on my hosting laptop and see if this fixes anything. Right now install on my PC and laptop are 100% the same and I really have no idea why hosting isn't working from latop. Playing all day on same character is kinda boring after a while, especially because, as Max said, D2 pvp can be very imbalanced in terms of matchups and such. Just on the basis of having right/wrong character your experience can vary wildly.
Next weekend it is. If someone wants game any time during this week let me know.
- Apr 4, 2020
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I found a way to improve BvC stomping abilities with game mechanics. Bad news is it requires me to remove Highlord's from the build unless I go without OaK which is inferior option.
What is ActionFlag?
ActionFlag is a frame at which character actually casts a spell. Let's check sorceress in a table below
At 105 FCR she casts a spell every 8 frames. However, of those 8 frames, the spell is actually cast at fifth frame and last 3 frames count towards backswing animation. This means if sorceress wants to escape from a trap lock, she will manage to do that at frame 5 of casting.
If we check for 200 FCR, we know she casts spells at 7 frames, but the actual spell is cast at frame 4 which gives her 1 frame less to cast teleport compared to 105 FCR. This is why 200 FCR sorc is much harder to lock, not just because she moves so quickly around the map.
Barbarian FCR considerations - 37 and 63 FCR
Those two are what matters for a barb with 37 being the most common one to hit via Arachnid Mesh and Trang gloves. Now, there is a thing to consider here, let's check the table.
At 37 FCR barb casts spells every 10 frames while the actual spell is cast at frame 8, backswing is 2 frames.
At 39 FCR barb casts spells every 10 frames, but the actual spell is cast at frame 7, backswing is 3 frames. Why is that important?
Let's consider telestomping + whirlwind. Whirlwind hits at frame 4.
At 37 FCR, upon teleporting on his target, barbarian will do 2 frames of backswing following with whirlwind meaning he should hit his target at frame 6.
At 39 FCR barbarian will tele, then do 3 frames backswing and then do whirlwind leading him to hit at frame 7. That is 1 frame slower hit!
This means, if barb wants to have more success hitting his target upon telestomp, he should pack 37 or 38 FCR exactly, going with 39 and more gives him less chance to hit his target upon stomping. This could be achieved with Trang gloves and 17-18 FCR amulet, or 7-8 FCR belt and fcr ring while maintaining Highlord's for extra damage.
Is this worthy tradeoff, losing extra damage from Highlord's for that extra frame we gain? Against spellcasters, possibly yes. Highlord's adds a little bit of damage, but that 1 faster frame hitting might give barb much more damage if he actually hits his opponents. Note, at 63 FCR situation is the same as with 37 FCR with exception spells are cast 1 frame faster.
Imagine how much 1 frame of casting is felt, I'd assume same might apply to a whirlwind stomping. This needs to be tested of course. And we have to remember Berserk skill is here as well, although only as addition, not a main skill.
Other builds consideration
Javazon wants 68 FCR to have only 3 frames backswing, anything below leads to slower stomping abilities while Charged Strike is her strongest skill by far.
With melee paladin, at 75 FCR his backswing is 1 frame less than at 86 FCR, but I don't think someone can overstack FCR on him. Anything else is straightforward as common knowledge is
What is ActionFlag?
ActionFlag is a frame at which character actually casts a spell. Let's check sorceress in a table below
At 105 FCR she casts a spell every 8 frames. However, of those 8 frames, the spell is actually cast at fifth frame and last 3 frames count towards backswing animation. This means if sorceress wants to escape from a trap lock, she will manage to do that at frame 5 of casting.
If we check for 200 FCR, we know she casts spells at 7 frames, but the actual spell is cast at frame 4 which gives her 1 frame less to cast teleport compared to 105 FCR. This is why 200 FCR sorc is much harder to lock, not just because she moves so quickly around the map.
Barbarian FCR considerations - 37 and 63 FCR
Those two are what matters for a barb with 37 being the most common one to hit via Arachnid Mesh and Trang gloves. Now, there is a thing to consider here, let's check the table.
At 37 FCR barb casts spells every 10 frames while the actual spell is cast at frame 8, backswing is 2 frames.
At 39 FCR barb casts spells every 10 frames, but the actual spell is cast at frame 7, backswing is 3 frames. Why is that important?
Let's consider telestomping + whirlwind. Whirlwind hits at frame 4.
At 37 FCR, upon teleporting on his target, barbarian will do 2 frames of backswing following with whirlwind meaning he should hit his target at frame 6.
At 39 FCR barbarian will tele, then do 3 frames backswing and then do whirlwind leading him to hit at frame 7. That is 1 frame slower hit!
This means, if barb wants to have more success hitting his target upon telestomp, he should pack 37 or 38 FCR exactly, going with 39 and more gives him less chance to hit his target upon stomping. This could be achieved with Trang gloves and 17-18 FCR amulet, or 7-8 FCR belt and fcr ring while maintaining Highlord's for extra damage.
Is this worthy tradeoff, losing extra damage from Highlord's for that extra frame we gain? Against spellcasters, possibly yes. Highlord's adds a little bit of damage, but that 1 faster frame hitting might give barb much more damage if he actually hits his opponents. Note, at 63 FCR situation is the same as with 37 FCR with exception spells are cast 1 frame faster.
Imagine how much 1 frame of casting is felt, I'd assume same might apply to a whirlwind stomping. This needs to be tested of course. And we have to remember Berserk skill is here as well, although only as addition, not a main skill.
Other builds consideration
Javazon wants 68 FCR to have only 3 frames backswing, anything below leads to slower stomping abilities while Charged Strike is her strongest skill by far.
With melee paladin, at 75 FCR his backswing is 1 frame less than at 86 FCR, but I don't think someone can overstack FCR on him. Anything else is straightforward as common knowledge is
That is interesting stuff. I have learned about such "in between" breakpoints in the past but my understanding was those were mostly important to online players, to address things like laggy/blackscreen teleporting and the like. Never considered it in more detail, but makes sense to have a closer look at these when it comes to tele-stomping in PvP.
Although in case of Barb are you sure that this could have enough impact to really drop HLW?
Btw caster belt is another option to get 7 or 8 FCR exactly, e.g. TO gloves, FCR ring + caster belt (also leaving Oak available). Don't know what belt you're using but if it's that or HLW...
Although in case of Barb are you sure that this could have enough impact to really drop HLW?
Btw caster belt is another option to get 7 or 8 FCR exactly, e.g. TO gloves, FCR ring + caster belt (also leaving Oak available). Don't know what belt you're using but if it's that or HLW...
- Apr 4, 2020
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I'm considering using 15% OW classic belt, 18 fcr amulet and Gore Riders to gain some deadly strike and more OW, totaling 25/50 on axes. As for HLW, since barbs on battlenet play without it, I assume impact is very minimal, although they play with 63 FCR for 1v1 matches. I did play without HLW and didn't notice difference in damage output, and Gore Rider's would further negate the loss of damage or even they would add more damage due to extra OW. Who knows
@ffs I heard you like OW!
I meant to ask you, how is it to play against barb with a necro, how does matchup look from your perspective?
@ffs I heard you like OW!
I meant to ask you, how is it to play against barb with a necro, how does matchup look from your perspective?
I don't exactly have an opinion qualified by experience, but I can say that if Necro is stupid and likes to get close, plus badly misjudges WW desynch like I do, it's kinda hard! But tbh whenever I kept the distance it seemed pretty balanced from my perspective. If Necro plays the lame game and spams from afar, it kinda means that whoever goes in to deal serious damage, that player will also risk eating serious damage himself. Indeed though OW is all but a death sentence for my poor fledgling Necro. :/
I've actually seen people actively advocate going for 86 fcr "breakpoint" on 63 fcr barb. Seems like counter productive from your standpoint. Do you get anything out of it? I guess chainlocking gets easier on 86?
- Apr 4, 2020
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I would say that is exactly the reason. With 63 FCR you have only 2 frames to namelock-tele target upon landing while with 86 you have 3 frames. It would mean it is 50% easier to continue perfect chainlock sequence with 86 compared to 63. Another reason could be you indeed cast teleport faster if you get into hit recovery from something like spirit or going after trapper.
Against trapper I would say 39 breakpoint is better because of that. Bowazon is questionable as well, is it better to have faster start of whirling after teleport or 1 frame faster teleport to get to her if she hits with GA.
Against trapper I would say 39 breakpoint is better because of that. Bowazon is questionable as well, is it better to have faster start of whirling after teleport or 1 frame faster teleport to get to her if she hits with GA.
- Apr 4, 2020
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@frozzzen
I'd like to build the strongest version of javazon, could you give me your opinion on my current setup? If you see something better, let me know. I went to build javazon with this logic:
1. 55 IAS + knockback is a "must" for better stomping
2. FRW is a huge factor, otherwise she can be stomped to death too easily
3. 68 FCR is optimal for best stomping chances as well as teleporting faster
4. Max block, high DR%
5. 52 FHR is optimal, although 32 is okay but weaker
Gear:
I can't find a stronger setup with say Griffon's or even JMoD given the priorities of building unless one of priorities is, in your opinion, irrelevant.
I'd like to build the strongest version of javazon, could you give me your opinion on my current setup? If you see something better, let me know. I went to build javazon with this logic:
1. 55 IAS + knockback is a "must" for better stomping
2. FRW is a huge factor, otherwise she can be stomped to death too easily
3. 68 FCR is optimal for best stomping chances as well as teleporting faster
4. Max block, high DR%
5. 52 FHR is optimal, although 32 is okay but weaker
Gear:
1.07 Valk (Cham)
Enigma
1/20/mana/allres amulet
Titan's Revenge
Stormshield (15IAS LR jewel)
9 FCR 24 Str 21 LR 19 PR belt
FCR stats mana res ring
Oak ring
2/20/knockback/FR gloves
Sandstorm Trek's boots
4x skillers
Also assume I don't really have a stronger belt+amulet combo to use Arach to beat presented combination of everything. And I don't have fcr + frw circlet to remotely challenge Valk
Enigma
1/20/mana/allres amulet
Titan's Revenge
Stormshield (15IAS LR jewel)
9 FCR 24 Str 21 LR 19 PR belt
FCR stats mana res ring
Oak ring
2/20/knockback/FR gloves
Sandstorm Trek's boots
4x skillers
Also assume I don't really have a stronger belt+amulet combo to use Arach to beat presented combination of everything. And I don't have fcr + frw circlet to remotely challenge Valk
I can't find a stronger setup with say Griffon's or even JMoD given the priorities of building unless one of priorities is, in your opinion, irrelevant.
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