SPF Hall Of Records
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Albatross
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- Apr 27, 2009
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Bumping this excellent thread in order to get into shape before the summer MFO.
Apart from rolling a brand new AT map, I've finally decided to do something about my reluctance to use skill keyboard shortcuts in DII! I always knew this was slowing me down, but retraining 15 years of muscle memory is pretty damn hard so I never really tried.
It might seem odd that I've relied on using the mousewheel for more than a decade, but the reason is precisely because I've been playing the game for so long, and I've only "discovered" keyboard shortcuts around the warcraft 3 era.
I currently feel like I'm playing with my feet, but I promise to post some run times when they become less embarrassing.. and then work hard on improving them.
Apart from rolling a brand new AT map, I've finally decided to do something about my reluctance to use skill keyboard shortcuts in DII! I always knew this was slowing me down, but retraining 15 years of muscle memory is pretty damn hard so I never really tried.
It might seem odd that I've relied on using the mousewheel for more than a decade, but the reason is precisely because I've been playing the game for so long, and I've only "discovered" keyboard shortcuts around the warcraft 3 era.
I currently feel like I'm playing with my feet, but I promise to post some run times when they become less embarrassing.. and then work hard on improving them.
Trust me it won't take long!
Many people use the F keys.. I hope you're not doing that!
I mostly Use:
qwer <-buffs
asdf <- main skills
zxcv <- teleport, TP tome
as well as other close keys. Use 'space' to show items (how many of you are still using alt?). I also use 'G' for weapon switch
Many people use the F keys.. I hope you're not doing that!
I mostly Use:
qwer <-buffs
asdf <- main skills
zxcv <- teleport, TP tome
as well as other close keys. Use 'space' to show items (how many of you are still using alt?). I also use 'G' for weapon switch
- Jun 7, 2009
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I had a bit of a "muscle memory" problem when I changed my set up a few years back but it has worked out for me. Being a left-hander I hold the mouse in my left hand and used my right primarily on the left hand side of the keyboard. Now I've programmed everything to the keypad I can play with a more natural stance, instead of a semi cross-handed one that I used for years.
ioupain
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maareek
Member
- May 12, 2007
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The king of birds swoops in with an update!
I'll post a link to my video about hotkeys here, but mostly: since you're starting over from scratch, go ahead and take the time to try and make sure whatever hotkeys you choose feel good and aren't putting strain on your parts, including your shoulders, elbows, etc. Break down your posture and everything and build up a setup that works for you with as little strain as possible, so you can grind out all those Tyrael's in the Ancient Tunnels without running into Carpal's tunnel, if you get my meaning.
Best of luck! Feel free to ask for help with anything, and let us know the fruits of your labor!
I'll post a link to my video about hotkeys here, but mostly: since you're starting over from scratch, go ahead and take the time to try and make sure whatever hotkeys you choose feel good and aren't putting strain on your parts, including your shoulders, elbows, etc. Break down your posture and everything and build up a setup that works for you with as little strain as possible, so you can grind out all those Tyrael's in the Ancient Tunnels without running into Carpal's tunnel, if you get my meaning.
Best of luck! Feel free to ask for help with anything, and let us know the fruits of your labor!
+1 to what @maareek said! I definitely had unnecessary strain on my hand by reaching with thumb to alt as show item and keeping pinky near esc for quick exit/bail over >20,000+ Nihl runs (and the runs to reach 98 with 2 characters). I remapped to d for find item (which is much more natural with my standard mapping of other hotkeys) and it's noticeably more comfortable.
Edit: Along these lines, I also switched to 10-keyless (no number pad) keyboard after noticing right-hand for mouse and left-side-keyboard hotkeys put my hands at unnatural position relative to shoulders. With the reduced size of the keyboard, my shoulders, elbows and hands are more comfortably aligned.
Edit: Along these lines, I also switched to 10-keyless (no number pad) keyboard after noticing right-hand for mouse and left-side-keyboard hotkeys put my hands at unnatural position relative to shoulders. With the reduced size of the keyboard, my shoulders, elbows and hands are more comfortably aligned.
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ioupain
Well-known member
@maareek Thanks for this tip in your crafting video about location of the Horadric Cube so that you are always already on the transmute button, very helpful!
maareek
Member
- May 12, 2007
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Glad to help! That tip always reminds me of the awesomeness of the SPF, because I picked that up from sirpoopsalot roughly 10 years ago, who I'm sure learned it from someone else along the way, and I don't know that I ever would've learned it without the forum. Like many other tips, to be fair.
@PhineasB I also use a 10-keyless for the same reason. Took some getting used to, because I previously used the numpad a ton, but it does feel better overall and there are standalone numpads available. Also, if you're looking at mechanical keyboards, 10-keyless models tend to be cheaper, which is nice (my Corsair Vengeance K65 was $50 on sale.)
ioupain
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Albatross
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- Apr 27, 2009
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I went for qwert (and df for BO/BC) as those worked well for dota 2, once I forgot all the key binds from wc3
and yes, quickly noticed "alt" is no longer going to work and switched to "space". This is going to be annoying for a long time because I probably have thousands of hours of holding down that "alt" key.Potions will stay on 1-4.
Woops, busted
I doubt I'll catch up to the top runners any time soon, if ever, but it will be interesting to compare my times without and with skill key binds.@maareek thanks for the video, good ideas in there. Afraid it's too late for carpal, I messed up my right hand a long time ago gaming endlessly on a really short table (elbow hanging off desk), but this has helped a lot: powerball. If anyone else has issues with carpal I recommend getting one and using it every day.
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- Apr 8, 2006
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@maareek good videos man. I might have to dust off the trav blizz sorc, and try out some new key bindings.
This was new to me:
So when forwarded it goes from -85% to -15%? I have a barb with AR issues, was hoping this would be the simple/quick fix.
This was new to me:
So when forwarded it goes from -85% to -15%? I have a barb with AR issues, was hoping this would be the simple/quick fix.
Albatross
Well-known member
- Apr 27, 2009
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Occasionally, I still TP into a mob and cast blizzards on nothing, but my biggest bane is completely botching up the weapon swap BC/BO sequence every 10 or so runs. There is progress nonetheless, I've managed to get to sub 40s runs:
View attachment 10269
I've also rerolled my map yet again Wasn't happy with the act I waypoint placement, the distance to the entrance (4 TPs to the south), and with several common spawns being glued to walls. Those are usually difficult to mop up with a blizzard. After coming to terms that I might stay in the tunnels for months trying to complete the grail, a few more hours spent looking for a better map seemed like a good investment.
And we just might have a winner. Haven't properly tested for density yet, but the initial runs show promise. The layout has great potential for figuring out optimal routes.
View attachment 10269
I've also rerolled my map yet again
Wasn't happy with the act I waypoint placement, the distance to the entrance (4 TPs to the south), and with several common spawns being glued to walls. Those are usually difficult to mop up with a blizzard. After coming to terms that I might stay in the tunnels for months trying to complete the grail, a few more hours spent looking for a better map seemed like a good investment.And we just might have a winner. Haven't properly tested for density yet, but the initial runs show promise. The layout has great potential for figuring out optimal routes.
Hey, SPF! It's been a long time. I haven't played since 2013, but have restarted last month. I'm going to go self-found and more spreadsheets this time around. Due to some unbelievable luck, I was able to get a Pitbarb going. Rolled a promising map pretty quickly and trying to decide whether to reroll. Found my first Titan's during these runs, so that was a nice bonus!
SC Berserker Barbarian lvl 90
Category: p1 Pit
MF %: 533/383
FI %: 55%
Runs: 50
Bosses: 386 (avg 7.72)
Average Time: 63.822 (8.26 s/boss pack)
Efficiency: 5.329
Made the mistake of not staying in Trav at least a couple of more levels. My lowest chance to hit (bone warrior) is 92% after some optimisation (lowered dmg and HP, swapped dmg/AR SCs for AR GCs). I expect I could shave off up to ~5s with more playing and better gear (bringing the efficiency to ~4.8). I think maybe I'll keep this map and try to find a better one when a WW barb levels up further in Trav. What do you think?
Sadly, I can't get screenshots to work in Linux (playing through Wine) so I can't show the map. (Anyone with the same problem?)
EDIT: I remembered I can't take screenshots only with alt pressed (for item shots). Here you go: map1 map2. I don't go below the stairs at the bottom and the circular part neart lvl 2 entrance. The circular part at the start involves some backtracking, unfortunately. Bosses spawn pretty much everywhere except immediately around the stairs near lvl 2 entrance.
I would love to discuss further optimisation and gear choices (Ghoulhide, anyone? xD). Also, I would like to share the spreadsheet I developed from an old one of Fabian's (mostly added more details, gear and calculations for non-standard builds: Faith merc, or Grief/Beast combo), if that would be alright with @Fabian and SPF rules. Would this thread be a good place for this?
SC Berserker Barbarian lvl 90
Category: p1 Pit
MF %: 533/383
FI %: 55%
Runs: 50
Bosses: 386 (avg 7.72)
Average Time: 63.822 (8.26 s/boss pack)
Efficiency: 5.329
Made the mistake of not staying in Trav at least a couple of more levels. My lowest chance to hit (bone warrior) is 92% after some optimisation (lowered dmg and HP, swapped dmg/AR SCs for AR GCs). I expect I could shave off up to ~5s with more playing and better gear (bringing the efficiency to ~4.8). I think maybe I'll keep this map and try to find a better one when a WW barb levels up further in Trav. What do you think?
Sadly, I can't get screenshots to work in Linux (playing through Wine) so I can't show the map. (Anyone with the same problem?)
EDIT: I remembered I can't take screenshots only with alt pressed (for item shots). Here you go: map1 map2. I don't go below the stairs at the bottom and the circular part neart lvl 2 entrance. The circular part at the start involves some backtracking, unfortunately. Bosses spawn pretty much everywhere except immediately around the stairs near lvl 2 entrance.
Shako (74)
Enigma (90)
Grief PB (400/38 first roll!) + 5xIst PB (150)
HotO + Suicide Branch
Laying of Hands
Trang's Girth (no Cham)
Crafted +2/5FCR/15str/15allres amulet
Nagelring (29)
Rare 10FCR/112AR/14str ring
War Trav (45)
Gheed's (36)
mostly +AR GCs
some 6/7MF SCs (109)
Enigma (90)
Grief PB (400/38 first roll!) + 5xIst PB (150)
HotO + Suicide Branch
Laying of Hands
Trang's Girth (no Cham)
Crafted +2/5FCR/15str/15allres amulet
Nagelring (29)
Rare 10FCR/112AR/14str ring
War Trav (45)
Gheed's (36)
mostly +AR GCs
some 6/7MF SCs (109)
I would love to discuss further optimisation and gear choices (Ghoulhide, anyone? xD). Also, I would like to share the spreadsheet I developed from an old one of Fabian's (mostly added more details, gear and calculations for non-standard builds: Faith merc, or Grief/Beast combo), if that would be alright with @Fabian and SPF rules. Would this thread be a good place for this?
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Albatross
Well-known member
- Apr 27, 2009
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Hey @Owlie, I'm afraid I can't comment much on pitbarbs in general since I've never done those, but your efficiency does look good. I like how close the entrance to the map is from the WP as well as the map itself.
As far as rerolling goes, the best suggestion I've read is to have two MF chars for the same target and reroll one at a time. That way you can keep a map you're not sure about longer and compare to new maps, but I'd stick to your current map for the time being and see how far you get with more practice.
Would you miss the IAS from LoH if you swapped it for ghoulhide? Nevertheless, I doubt they'll outperform LoH, unless you feel the extra AR vs undead is crucial.
That's a great amulet, btw!
Some more numbers from me as well. I've rerolled several more maps and finally settled (probably) and gotten used to the new key binds. Getting close to 33s average time, but haven't counted the spawns yet, I'll record a session and review it later today in order to do that accurately. Based on a small sample, the number is close to 6 (~5.8).
View attachment 10539
I still much prefer the 105 FCR setup, but I'll have to do a lot more runs to see if it really makes a difference or I just perceive the character as being faster and then actually play faster myself.
And the character in question is a blizzard sorc, who would have been level 97 ages ago if I wouldn't get her killed on a regular basis. She got there from late 80s running almost nothing but P1 AT.
I still shuffle around trang's and a nagel for chance guard's and a FCR ring.
This is the map I've settled for. I've decided that this distance to the act 1 WP and entrance to AT would be my standard and I just reroll maps until I get it, then check the map itself. Repeat ad nauseam until a good map shows up.
View attachment 10540
It didn't look like much until I realised that the part left of the yellow line is entirely skippable, as the spawns are both scarce and infrequent. There's some backtracking, but if I play it right it's not that bad. I hit the first spawn with a blizzard and go towards the chest, deal with those, and by the time I'm back the first spawn is usually dead.
As far as rerolling goes, the best suggestion I've read is to have two MF chars for the same target and reroll one at a time. That way you can keep a map you're not sure about longer and compare to new maps, but I'd stick to your current map for the time being and see how far you get with more practice.
Would you miss the IAS from LoH if you swapped it for ghoulhide? Nevertheless, I doubt they'll outperform LoH, unless you feel the extra AR vs undead is crucial.
That's a great amulet, btw!
Some more numbers from me as well. I've rerolled several more maps and finally settled (probably
) and gotten used to the new key binds. Getting close to 33s average time, but haven't counted the spawns yet, I'll record a session and review it later today in order to do that accurately. Based on a small sample, the number is close to 6 (~5.8).View attachment 10539
I still much prefer the 105 FCR setup, but I'll have to do a lot more runs to see if it really makes a difference or I just perceive the character as being faster and then actually play faster myself.
And the character in question is a blizzard sorc, who would have been level 97 ages ago if I wouldn't get her killed on a regular basis. She got there from late 80s running almost nothing but P1 AT.
Harlequin crest with ptopaz
Death's fathom (25%) with an ist rune
3 part tal's (amulet, armor, and belt)
spirit
war traveler (47)
BKWB (I really feel like I need the extra damage, but will eventually try to replace this with a nagel)
Gheed's
1 chilling skiller
the rest are 5, 6, or 7% MF charms
Switch:
A +5 BO CtA (recently made, I've been using a +2 one for ages)
spirit
Merc:
eth CV insight (still waiting for a better base)
Andariel's socketed with a cham
eth Treachery
Death's fathom (25%) with an ist rune
3 part tal's (amulet, armor, and belt)
spirit
war traveler (47)
BKWB (I really feel like I need the extra damage, but will eventually try to replace this with a nagel)
Gheed's
1 chilling skiller
the rest are 5, 6, or 7% MF charms
Switch:
A +5 BO CtA (recently made, I've been using a +2 one for ages)
spirit
Merc:
eth CV insight (still waiting for a better base)
Andariel's socketed with a cham
eth Treachery
I still shuffle around trang's and a nagel for chance guard's and a FCR ring.
This is the map I've settled for. I've decided that this distance to the act 1 WP and entrance to AT would be my standard and I just reroll maps until I get it, then check the map itself. Repeat ad nauseam until a good map shows up.
View attachment 10540
It didn't look like much until I realised that the part left of the yellow line is entirely skippable, as the spawns are both scarce and infrequent. There's some backtracking, but if I play it right it's not that bad. I hit the first spawn with a blizzard and go towards the chest, deal with those, and by the time I'm back the first spawn is usually dead.
I actually re-rolled the map when I decided to lvl up to 95 by doing Baal runs. I've been re-rolling for about 3 weeks since that and I am still far from even coming close to that original map. Rolling Pit maps can be quite frustrating. Rolling with two chars is indeed a good method, but I would have to lvl up the only other barb I have again (I hated those Baal runs, but I might do it for a chance at a couple of GCs for re-rolling). First I have to find a decent map with this barb, though. This and the experience with rolling Trav maps have really made me appreciate the determination of the people in the records tables.
Hey, Pitbarbers, any tips for recognizing a good map quickly?
(Although, to be honest, finding a good map is a decent motivation for running. Not the most efficient, though.)
Yes, Ghoulhide would have to wait for a Cham in Shako. However, I crunched the numbers just now and I've realized I was wrong: LoH offers more. Bone Warriors are hardest to hit, meaning less Dex investment with Ghoulhide, but LoH offer more dmg than some ~20 attribute points (lest I start hitting Dark Stalkers with less than utmost efficiency xD) I might spare with Ghoulhide. LoH setup allows the milestone for one-shooting all demons on average and being some 500 dmg points behind for Bone Warriors, without Might. If I spent this much time optimising my playing skills... Have to say though, would like to make a char that would absolutely, not on average, one-shot every boss.
It's alright, especially since I've done less than 200 crafts. This is the real crown jewel, though:
Code:
Plague Necklace
Amulet
Required Level: 89
Fingerprint: 0x86d5217
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to Necromancer Skill Levels
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+10 to Mana
Regenerate Mana 5%
Poison Resist +5%
29% Better Chance of Getting Magic ItemsI love that one.
Those are the sweetest kind of maps; for some reason I believe that larger maps spawn more boss packs (I've had completely opposite experiences too, though), and then having them restricted to a smaller part makes for efficient running. That 33s is crazy, though. Approaching Nagisa territory, if the boss packs number holds.
I am not sure I can comfortably do 45s on this map:
Bosses spawn pretty much throughout and I simply run it counterclockwise. Average of 6.08 boss packs on 160 runs sample. I have a feeling Fathom would help a bit.
From ~500-550MF on, I would probably take FCR over MF. After 105 FCR Sorcs and Pitbarbs, running a 125 FCR Necro is a chore. Nevermind the efficiency (
), the biggest reason I like the Pitbarb is how snappy and responsive he is in everything he does. For the Sorc my perspective may be skewed, though, since I try avoid getting hit because of the CtC on Oculus.
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