The SPF I know

[Grape1]

Actually 1.07 was never online. (or at least nothing got kept)

Realms have had their shares of the 1.08 uniques though (mostly same as 1.07), but missed the big damage charms, 1.07 crafts and cubing quirks. Joys of SP

 

[GooberGrape1]

I think to be fair we need to consider "Vanilla" as all Blizzard-provided assets, whether via the realms, physical CD's or official downloads. If it takes little more than installing the game off the original CD then clearly it is Vanilla.

 

[N4rkoT1k]

Actually 1.07 was never online. (or at least nothing got kept)

Realms have had their shares of the 1.08 uniques though (mostly same as 1.07), but missed the big damage charms, 1.07 crafts and cubing quirks. Joys of SP

"Patch 1.07 was released in the early summer of 2001 and is the version that the expansion pack comes with."
"Patch 1.08 was released June 29, 2001."

I guess it was not "online" but it is the first version of LoD (especially LoD-SinglePlayer)
Perhaps got patched directly to 1.08 once you connected to Bnet?

 

[Grape1]

Perhaps got patched directly to 1.08 once you connected to Bnet?

That's how I think it went, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[ThomasJohnsen]

(I did promise not to comment any further, since I'm pretty alone with my sentiments, but I have trouble staying silent for very long, when things are debated, that I fell strongly about . So please ignore the following).

It seems to me that you're all in agreement, that if an item can be found in any version of the game without altering game-files and/or using outside software, it should be considered accepted in these fora. That to me is and has allways been a given.
What however is not a given to me is that any accepted item in an earlier version can freely be forwarded and used in any other newer version. However vanilla an item may be in an early version it becomes very un-vanilla for me when forwarded. But that dosen't seem to be a consideration for anyone else besides me, since forwarding has been practised for many years and to many feels like an integral part of the SP experience. To me it is not.
I would love to see a pimped out character with loads of hybrid rares in 1.07 where said character belongs. But to see a similar character in 1.14 would make me very sad indeed.

Another issue for me, which noone seems to notice much, is that the current trend here seems to be to dig up ways to exploit older versions to the fullest extent. The 1.07 thread attracts new members with focus on picking this version apart and digging for every weakness in the code. Even modding to exploit further. Am I really the only one that feels queasy seeing such posts?

These things combined with the fact that we have managed to make a moderator so disillusioned, that she no longer feels welcomed as a member and an integral part of SPF, really makes me sad.

 

[Grape1]

Don't you use RWM and GoMule yourself @ThomasJohnsen , aren't those quite "unvanilla"? Some people feel that way, and thus won't use them. That's great, all power to them!

What is the best SP experience varies from people to people. Some like to bring stuff forward, some don't. Some want to use Insight on their merc, some feel it's cheating in SP. What's the big deal if we enjoy this game in many different ways? I rather make my umpteenth Mat/Pat using a great craft from 1.07 than a Grief or Oath and nice rare pair of boots from 1.00 instead of Goreriders. It somehow makes it more interesting to me, funnier. That's what matters in the end. I like the process and challenge of getting item in a former patch. I like to play around those with them in said patch, but they also give me joy in current patch, because there I can get most out of them.

I don't know why you take it so personally if some people play this game differently than what you FEEL is the right way to play it. There is NO right way.

If it weren't for the code diggers, MANY MANY things would've left unknown, or not understood in this game. Arreat Summit is a great source of information but all D2 communities owe big thanks to those who got the rest figured out. Many times that included some code digging, altering characters for perfect testing environments etc. I'm not one who does that, but always interested learning more about this game.

The last thing you said about Thy, I can't say for her cause I don't know how she feels. Hopefully she reads the thread again and comments!

 

[ioupain]

The 1.07 thread attracts new members with focus on picking this version apart and digging for every weakness in the code. Even modding to exploit further.

@ThomasJohnsen Please can you elaborate on this point?

EDIT: Emphasis mine

 

[Lemstar]

If I were to play the devil's advocate, I think the difference is that these hybrid rares were never available on battle-net, while the 1.07 and 1.08 uniques and such could be found (rarely) on battle-net due to forwarding.

1.08 uniques were around in very short supply on realms, but using 1.07 ethereal bases for 1.10+ ladder runewords was something that never could have existed on realms.

What's the maximum theoretical marginal benefit that can be derived from a hybrid rare in each slot? My intuition is that if people can stomach 1.07 eth weapons and charms, these wouldn't be so grossly more impactful than those, but I'm not sure.

 

[Grape1]

What's the maximum theoretical marginal benefit that can be derived from a hybrid rare in each slot? My intuition is that if people can stomach 1.07 eth weapons and charms, these wouldn't be so grossly more impactful than those, but I'm not sure.

I think hybrid rares can't rival 1.07 if we think about the total impact. Hybrid rares could be used by an optimized MFer or GFer. Rest are quite specific, mainly caster stuff with the possibility of 20FCR / ring or amulet. Melee chars won't get much out of them, apart from classic characters, whereas things from 1.07 can give those a solid buff.

Basically, nothing affects our play so much as allowing ladder only runewords to be used. Spirit, Insight, Grief, Fortitude, Infinity... totally not vanilla SP, totally broken items, but fun to use!

 

[GalaXyHaXz]

If all we had was the newest patch, things would grow stale pretty quick. I don't see how obtaining items and having fun with the game's quirks would deprive anyone else of their own enjoyment. The only issue would giving some players an upper hand during tourneys and such. But that is easily remedied by saying "no bugged items" in tournament rules. Otherwise, the only time such items could contact anyone is through trading. The trade pool is small and inactive enough as it is, so it really isn't practical to divide it up.

@necrolemming 1.08 eth weapons are the same as 1.07, so they could have existed on the realms.

 

[helvete1]

The biggest cheeses would be: (not all of these could spawn on the same item, but seperately they can)
Amulet - +4 class skills, 20FCR, 10+ each leech, 48 all resist (spawned separately), 64MF (possibly more, requires 3 or even 4 affixes though)

Ring - 10+ each leech, 20FCR, 26 all resist (spawned together), higher life/mana/str/dex/single resist than we're used to and more AR, but nothing which will rival Raven Frost, and no leech which can rival 1.07 and current crafts. Also 49MF, possibly more with prefix(es)

Boots - up to 60FRW, 19 strength, 30FHR, a whopping 89 single resist, 23 dex, higher life/mana than usual

Gloves - 30IAS is the big one, but no skills. Higher MF than chance guards, probably up to 59%. Higher resists/str/dex too.

Belts - up to 44 (I think) FHR, better resists. Slightly higher str, and possibility of dex. Big life also possible.

ALL of the above can have big goldfind bonuses, up to 199% (except rings, but these can still be better than dwarf)

Armors/helms/weapons/shields would be pretty uninteresting for LoD use, but a +2 sorc skills shield can be made this way. Also +4 necro wands with 40FCR.... But to get that, AND useful staffmods would be next to impossible.

For use in classic, weapons could get better damage and higher IAS. Armors and helms higher resists/life/stats/fhr.


It is important to stress the fact that this is pure lotto, with really low odds of a win. I think I've brought forward around 300 items, and by now I've only seen two definite keepers, both with niche uses.

 

[Lemstar]

@necrolemming 1.08 eth weapons are the same as 1.07, so they could have existed on the realms.

Sure, but how did these eth bases survive a ladder reset?

 

[helvete1]

Nothing survives a ladder reset. Any ladder items get transferred to non-ladder. Which by the way has easier monsters than SP....

 

[GooberGrape1]

That reminds me, we used to have a SP ladder...

 

[GalaXyHaXz]

Hmm I overlooked that! So it only would be possible to have NL runewords with the old eth bases.

Regarding that, some items technically can't exist past 1.10. Some of the overpowered uniques were deleted during the rust storm (valor, shako, etc.). So it's a privilege that we can keep them in SP.

Edit: I think this is worth mentioning. Apparently back then item shops were able to import NL items to the ladder through some bug. If that was the case, it would be possible but only through cheating.

 

[ThomasJohnsen]

Well - for a comment that reflects only my own personal opinions on this game, it sure sparked a lot of posts.

@ThomasJohnsen Please can you elaborate on this point?

I haven't clicked on any links myself. I only assume that new mods are being worked on given this response:

Thanks so much for this! I also installed the D2Client and D2Win you posted earlier

Ofc people are quite free to mod however they choose. I just don't feel like it belongs here. Thyiad got a PM to post links to a hacked/cracked beta (as per her post, which I cannot quote for some reason) for gods sake. Why would we want that here?

Don't you use RWM and GoMule yourself @ThomasJohnsen , aren't those quite "unvanilla"? Some people feel that way, and thus won't use them. That's great, all power to them!

What is the best SP experience varies from people to people. Some like to bring stuff forward, some don't. Some want to use Insight on their merc, some feel it's cheating in SP. What's the big deal if we enjoy this game in many different ways? I rather make my umpteenth Mat/Pat using a great craft from 1.07 than a Grief or Oath and nice rare pair of boots from 1.00 instead of Goreriders. It somehow makes it more interesting to me, funnier. That's what matters in the end. I like the process and challenge of getting item in a former patch. I like to play around those with them in said patch, but they also give me joy in current patch, because there I can get most out of them.

I don't know why you take it so personally if some people play this game differently than what you FEEL is the right way to play it. There is NO right way.

If it weren't for the code diggers, MANY MANY things would've left unknown, or not understood in this game. Arreat Summit is a great source of information but all D2 communities owe big thanks to those who got the rest figured out. Many times that included some code digging, altering characters for perfect testing environments etc. I'm not one who does that, but always interested learning more about this game.

The last thing you said about Thy, I can't say for her cause I don't know how she feels. Hopefully she reads the thread again and comments!

I do use GoMule and RWM. And that might be considered unvanilla by some, I agree. For me however it is not. I use only items that are available in any given version (RWM to emulate ladder additions ofc) and use GoMule for storage. For me, enabling something that is available on ladder is very different from forwarding something found in an old patch.

And I didn't make my post to convince others to drop their quest to find items from old patches or to see things my way. After all it dosen't affect my playing of diablo at all. My sentiment was only that I don't feel such things belong here (rather in a subforum or other forum altogether) - to me these fora have allways stood as a pinnacle of honesty, friendship and good conduct as opposed to say jsp, and to me the conduct as of late hasn't coincided with that belief.
I somehow got the impression that all opinions were welcome from members, old and new, purists and GoMulers. And that is what I did - state my opinion. If that is taking things personally then so be it.

 

[T72on1]

These things combined with the fact that we have managed to make a moderator so disillusioned, that she no longer feels welcomed as a member and an integral part of SPF, really makes me sad.

And I really feel this is a pity ... as there probably isn't even a need to feel disillusioned, not welcome, or however she might feel. As this thread has shown, this still is a very warm community, full of people who are ready to discuss things in a proper, eloquent way, full of respect for each other. So it's a pity that Thy, when feeling uncomfortable with certain recent evolutions, just chose to make a very bitter post, without the ability for us to respond to it. If she wouldn't have locked that thread right from the start, we could have easily shown her that this still is the very warm and welcoming community she loves, and that there is no need to feel so bitter. As this discussion has shown, it's not the state of the community which has sunk low because of recent evolutions, there's just a difference in opinions which needs things to be discussed again, so we can move forward again, as the community (at least that's my impression, I wasn't around at the time) has always done.

 

[ioupain]

These things combined with the fact that we have managed to make a moderator so disillusioned, that she no longer feels welcomed as a member and an integral part of SPF, really makes me sad.

Can anyone point me to the post where Thy says she no longer feels welcome/integral please?

I feel like I've missed parts of this situation...

 

[ThomasJohnsen]

Can anyone point me to the post where Thy says she no longer feels welcome/integral please?

She hasn't made a post in 19 days. And her last two posts were very sad posts about the state of things as she saw them. How else do you interpret this?

 

[Lemstar]

I haven't clicked on any links myself. I only assume that new mods are being worked on given this response:

I don't think that unapproved mods should be openly distributed, either, but a mod that doesn't affect ingame processes seems fairly innocuous when the same thing with slightly less functionality is approved.



Honestly, I don't think the issue at hand is actually the hybrid rares. It's symptomatic of the condition of moderation.