The SPF I know
- Thread starter helvete1
- Start date
If you really wanted to know, zemaj, YOU'D PM me. Want to know what I wrote? Fine ...
===========
The "Not the SPF I Know" thread was pretty much a goodbye. Not that anyone bothered to think about what was posted; just "mwa, I wanna hack old game".
About four or so years ago, I asked for a co-mod after sirpoopsalot disappeared. As in said he had computer issues, was around sparsly (during the 1.12 release and then the ATMA eth bug discovery) and then nothing. I tried his personal emails, even searching to see if there's any accidents in the city I knew where he lived with his name and nada. He literally just disappeared. I hope he's ok.
Elly never responded. I did suggest names. I presumed she just thought the forum was quiet, so no point creating more green people. As the forum quieted, it wasn't really an issue. I was getting reports to my email and I did check in regularly (often not logged in so didn't show up in lists, but I was around). Fine. There was the odd flare, but nothing spectacular. I asked people to help maintain some threads (EG the Mat/Pat thread), so that was ok.
I had some issues in between; getting made redundent and generally being a bit miserable, but I try not to post stuff like that on the forum and you'll understand why in a few minutes.
As my uncle because more ill (this was the middle of 2014), I was driving 50 miles to him, seeing him in the hospital, driving 60 miles to work, working a nightshift as a driver, driving home, going to bed and rinse and repeat. My days were long, busy and exhausting. I was lucky I could nap at my job (at one point they asked "don't you sleep during the day" and they could have fired me. I was very lucky and when I left they got copious amounts of an alcohol as a "thanks". Anyway, I was tired all of the time adn my time was such that I quietly asked Noodle to keep an eye out. Which he did. My uncle died in November 2015 and by that time, I was rarely wandering into the SPF. Noodle was still watching out and I wasn't getting many PMs.
However .... The PMs that I have been receiving are pretty much all "I've managed to hack this, break this, do this, can I post it". A "No" results in "well people can PM me privately", "But it's an old game" or a long list of paragraphs which boil down to "you're an arsehole". I'm rather fed up of it.
Now abuse from "respected" and "well-known" and "long-term" members of the SPF isn't new. I got told I'm a 40 year old drunk before I was even a mod. I've had one very respected, well-known, long term member post off forum that he's going to get me removed, then proceeded to bombard Elly with shit - and get his friends to do the same. Despite me having chat logs proving he was talking crap. Prior to that I had one person send PM after PM after PM to Elly accusing me of posting BS against them and then deleting it. (Want to know why mods could edit without edit marks before but not now ... that's why.) It was BS but I have had a DECADE of shit like this. One guy kept posting a thread on the OFFICIAL Blizzard forums that "Thyiad gives good head". I wouldn't quit because I'm bloody minded. But it has taken a toll and I'd have been better off leaving. No one deserves the bollocks I've had to deal with from these arseholes.
Think I took shit in public about the ATMA eth bug and the 1.11/1.12 split stuff? You should see what I got in private.
Anyway ...
I have defended RWM users who got called cheats by vanilla users. I've tried to keep the forum to the same "ethics" as when I started playing. (The ATMA wars were just before my time.) I figured the SPF had a "level" and let's keep that. The decisions I made about the ATMA eth bug etc were all based on that. We were never j.. or that other hacky p forum, which is why I came and stayed.
Well now that's no longer the case.
Recent little gags:
- Dual weilding wizardspikes in 1.07 using a glitch
- Moving items from an early version, missing a version and going straight to a different version to keep the original very early stats (I can't recall the version, I have them on a PM somewhre)
- Hacking into the beta to release it
- Making "PlugY lite"
Well, I don't want to deal with a forum which is basically a hack-fest of jsp.
Maybe I screwed up by allowing ANY mod information in the SPF. But who knew that GoMule would turn into this nonsense. EVERY PM I get is like this, GG.
Anyone who stands up for "this isn't what we are" gets "well it's an old game, we want a new challenge". Well play Median or GTA V then! "No we want all our items and our game but make it super easy".
I am wasting my time arguing with these people when NO ONE. NO ONE. Backs me.
I am tired, frustrated, fed up and sick of abuse. I work 50-60 hours a week and I am not wasting the precious little time I have on these guys any more.
I shouldn't have posted anything. Just done a Hrus and pissed off. I love the SPF. Or did. They were friends or at least comfortable. Characters. Now it's just "I hacked this, can I post it". Ugh.
You said my last two posts weren't me? Well the SPF isn't the SPF and I really really want to post a full on Thy-rant but there isn't any point. They don't want a moderator. They want a puppet who will let them do as they please. Well I will never be that. You said I was scrupulously fair; well that meant a lot. No one else see's it. I was never one to pander and I won't do it now. But I no longer care about doing point-by-point rebuttles of nonsense resulting in 23 page threads in the mod forum (I shit ye not) because some butt-hurt wassock wants to accuse me of being slgihtly to the right of Hitler. I'm sick of defending myself againt BS.
I may drop in sometimes. I may even post. But if they want someone to tell them it's ok do the stuff such as I mentioned above ... nah.
============
To those of you who thought above your neck .. thanks. To those of you who are responsible for the circus above. Nice. Just why I've fed up of this garbage.
===========
The "Not the SPF I Know" thread was pretty much a goodbye. Not that anyone bothered to think about what was posted; just "mwa, I wanna hack old game".
About four or so years ago, I asked for a co-mod after sirpoopsalot disappeared. As in said he had computer issues, was around sparsly (during the 1.12 release and then the ATMA eth bug discovery) and then nothing. I tried his personal emails, even searching to see if there's any accidents in the city I knew where he lived with his name and nada. He literally just disappeared. I hope he's ok.
Elly never responded. I did suggest names. I presumed she just thought the forum was quiet, so no point creating more green people. As the forum quieted, it wasn't really an issue. I was getting reports to my email and I did check in regularly (often not logged in so didn't show up in lists, but I was around). Fine. There was the odd flare, but nothing spectacular. I asked people to help maintain some threads (EG the Mat/Pat thread), so that was ok.
I had some issues in between; getting made redundent and generally being a bit miserable, but I try not to post stuff like that on the forum and you'll understand why in a few minutes.
As my uncle because more ill (this was the middle of 2014), I was driving 50 miles to him, seeing him in the hospital, driving 60 miles to work, working a nightshift as a driver, driving home, going to bed and rinse and repeat. My days were long, busy and exhausting. I was lucky I could nap at my job (at one point they asked "don't you sleep during the day" and they could have fired me. I was very lucky and when I left they got copious amounts of an alcohol as a "thanks". Anyway, I was tired all of the time adn my time was such that I quietly asked Noodle to keep an eye out. Which he did. My uncle died in November 2015 and by that time, I was rarely wandering into the SPF. Noodle was still watching out and I wasn't getting many PMs.
However .... The PMs that I have been receiving are pretty much all "I've managed to hack this, break this, do this, can I post it". A "No" results in "well people can PM me privately", "But it's an old game" or a long list of paragraphs which boil down to "you're an arsehole". I'm rather fed up of it.
Now abuse from "respected" and "well-known" and "long-term" members of the SPF isn't new. I got told I'm a 40 year old drunk before I was even a mod. I've had one very respected, well-known, long term member post off forum that he's going to get me removed, then proceeded to bombard Elly with shit - and get his friends to do the same. Despite me having chat logs proving he was talking crap. Prior to that I had one person send PM after PM after PM to Elly accusing me of posting BS against them and then deleting it. (Want to know why mods could edit without edit marks before but not now ... that's why.) It was BS but I have had a DECADE of shit like this. One guy kept posting a thread on the OFFICIAL Blizzard forums that "Thyiad gives good head". I wouldn't quit because I'm bloody minded. But it has taken a toll and I'd have been better off leaving. No one deserves the bollocks I've had to deal with from these arseholes.
Think I took shit in public about the ATMA eth bug and the 1.11/1.12 split stuff? You should see what I got in private.
Anyway ...
I have defended RWM users who got called cheats by vanilla users. I've tried to keep the forum to the same "ethics" as when I started playing. (The ATMA wars were just before my time.) I figured the SPF had a "level" and let's keep that. The decisions I made about the ATMA eth bug etc were all based on that. We were never j.. or that other hacky p forum, which is why I came and stayed.
Well now that's no longer the case.
Recent little gags:
- Dual weilding wizardspikes in 1.07 using a glitch
- Moving items from an early version, missing a version and going straight to a different version to keep the original very early stats (I can't recall the version, I have them on a PM somewhre)
- Hacking into the beta to release it
- Making "PlugY lite"
Well, I don't want to deal with a forum which is basically a hack-fest of jsp.
Maybe I screwed up by allowing ANY mod information in the SPF. But who knew that GoMule would turn into this nonsense. EVERY PM I get is like this, GG.
Anyone who stands up for "this isn't what we are" gets "well it's an old game, we want a new challenge". Well play Median or GTA V then! "No we want all our items and our game but make it super easy".
I am wasting my time arguing with these people when NO ONE. NO ONE. Backs me.
I am tired, frustrated, fed up and sick of abuse. I work 50-60 hours a week and I am not wasting the precious little time I have on these guys any more.
I shouldn't have posted anything. Just done a Hrus and pissed off. I love the SPF. Or did. They were friends or at least comfortable. Characters. Now it's just "I hacked this, can I post it". Ugh.
You said my last two posts weren't me? Well the SPF isn't the SPF and I really really want to post a full on Thy-rant but there isn't any point. They don't want a moderator. They want a puppet who will let them do as they please. Well I will never be that. You said I was scrupulously fair; well that meant a lot. No one else see's it. I was never one to pander and I won't do it now. But I no longer care about doing point-by-point rebuttles of nonsense resulting in 23 page threads in the mod forum (I shit ye not) because some butt-hurt wassock wants to accuse me of being slgihtly to the right of Hitler. I'm sick of defending myself againt BS.
I may drop in sometimes. I may even post. But if they want someone to tell them it's ok do the stuff such as I mentioned above ... nah.
============
To those of you who thought above your neck .. thanks. To those of you who are responsible for the circus above. Nice. Just why I've fed up of this garbage.
I'm truely sorry that you've been through all that Thyiad .. reading this reminds me of that show 13 Reasons Why. Externally we see or know of some things, but we have truely no idea everything people are going through, or what they are dealing with.
That much negative energy isn't good for anyone
That much negative energy isn't good for anyone
@Thyiad I don't think it's fair to compare those who have harassed you with those who have questions about forum policies/changing forum policies regarding mods and glitches. I don't just mean myself but I recall last summer when the 1.07 weapon glitch became public you weren't for it but acknowledged that if it's already part of the trade pool we can't do anything about it... I don't know if you ever made a public statement on it, though.
I haven't used it outside of testing oddities with it 5+ months ago but I don't think we can just sweep things like that under the rug.
Also if you're saying goodbye as a mod I feel like you should have been more explicit and told us what you were doing exactly. Does that mean @Noodle is replacing you?
Whatever the outcome is, I'm thankful for all the work you've done since I've been around and before.
I haven't used it outside of testing oddities with it 5+ months ago but I don't think we can just sweep things like that under the rug.
Also if you're saying goodbye as a mod I feel like you should have been more explicit and told us what you were doing exactly. Does that mean @Noodle is replacing you?
Whatever the outcome is, I'm thankful for all the work you've done since I've been around and before.
pharphis pretty much summed up my thoughts!
But anyway Thyiad, thanks for the past years. Sorry to hear/see this had to go this way.
Hey @Thyiad,
We've worked together over the years on a bunch of mod simplifications and consolidation that I made for the SPF before (Bliss Version Switcher, Singling, Bliss Complete Collection). These were all in order to make the SPF a better, more productive, and happier place, and also to help extend the life of the game. Any ideas that I had, I always ran them by you before releasing and took your criticisms seriously, and modified my original idea in order to comply with what you thought would be acceptable. I'm happy that we had these moments of collaboration. Also, in all of my mods that you were a part of, I've given you credit and also to the SPF for being a guiding principle.
I'm confused as to why now I'm basically being lumped into the same group of people that:
1. Just want to make the game easier
2. Just hacking the game because "well whatever, there is no purpose but you just want to do it"
3. People that have harassed you.
My new development which isn't published to the SPF is the "PlugY lite" idea. People already use ATMA and GoMule in the SPF, and people also like PlugY, but the problem with PlugY is that it has a lot of extra stuff that the SPF _does not want_. What I did was to take the good parts of PlugY (The unlimited stash.. which is basically ATMA and GoMule but in game), and strip out all of the other parts that are _not allowed_ in the SPF. This would be completely consistent with the current stuff that the SPF already allows, and with the ideas that you have provided me. Any feedback from you would have been beneficial and that's one of the reasons it still hasn't been posted to the SPF.. because I respect you and value your judgement and opinion. We might have differences of opinion, but that's ok, we work through it and come out with a better result, and a better community at the end of the day. Sometimes even if I wanted to release something, after I create it, I think about the impact it would have on the community and then I would decide whether or not I even want to attempt to introduce it.
I also care about you as a human being, which is why I contact you directly on Skype to see how you are doing every once in a while. You might be the SPF moderator, but at the end of the day you are a fellow human being, that is going through life just like the rest of us.
But anyways, I'm thankful for the times we worked together, but just sad to be lumped with all of your other negative groups.
- Jonathan
We've worked together over the years on a bunch of mod simplifications and consolidation that I made for the SPF before (Bliss Version Switcher, Singling, Bliss Complete Collection). These were all in order to make the SPF a better, more productive, and happier place, and also to help extend the life of the game. Any ideas that I had, I always ran them by you before releasing and took your criticisms seriously, and modified my original idea in order to comply with what you thought would be acceptable. I'm happy that we had these moments of collaboration. Also, in all of my mods that you were a part of, I've given you credit and also to the SPF for being a guiding principle.
I'm confused as to why now I'm basically being lumped into the same group of people that:
1. Just want to make the game easier
2. Just hacking the game because "well whatever, there is no purpose but you just want to do it"
3. People that have harassed you.
My new development which isn't published to the SPF is the "PlugY lite" idea. People already use ATMA and GoMule in the SPF, and people also like PlugY, but the problem with PlugY is that it has a lot of extra stuff that the SPF _does not want_. What I did was to take the good parts of PlugY (The unlimited stash.. which is basically ATMA and GoMule but in game), and strip out all of the other parts that are _not allowed_ in the SPF. This would be completely consistent with the current stuff that the SPF already allows, and with the ideas that you have provided me. Any feedback from you would have been beneficial and that's one of the reasons it still hasn't been posted to the SPF.. because I respect you and value your judgement and opinion. We might have differences of opinion, but that's ok, we work through it and come out with a better result, and a better community at the end of the day. Sometimes even if I wanted to release something, after I create it, I think about the impact it would have on the community and then I would decide whether or not I even want to attempt to introduce it.
I also care about you as a human being, which is why I contact you directly on Skype to see how you are doing every once in a while. You might be the SPF moderator, but at the end of the day you are a fellow human being, that is going through life just like the rest of us.
But anyways, I'm thankful for the times we worked together, but just sad to be lumped with all of your other negative groups.
- Jonathan
My take from this thread is that the vast majority of the forum leans in the same direction.
And without a moderator, I don't see how things might potentially change anyway.
...
As far as I can tell, the floodgates are pretty much opened anyways at this point. Tbh I've stopped caring - I doubt I'll play anymore unless that Blizzard patch becomes a thing, and ladder can be played again without bots and dupes.
ioupain
Well-known member
Wow...that is a lot.
@Thyiad I understand your frustrations, it is exhausting both mentally and physically (bone deep) when you are supporting someone very ill without much sleep continuously (been through it myself for over a decade with 2 sick people - so I can relate). I've had to stop things that are stressing me out or not giving me any job satisfaction.
Though it may be callous to say this, it seems decidedly unfair to hold all of that resentment and unleash it upon people who are weren't involved in a lot of that unpleasantness.
Anyway, hope you get a much deserved break.
@Thyiad I understand your frustrations, it is exhausting both mentally and physically (bone deep) when you are supporting someone very ill without much sleep continuously (been through it myself for over a decade with 2 sick people - so I can relate). I've had to stop things that are stressing me out or not giving me any job satisfaction.
Though it may be callous to say this, it seems decidedly unfair to hold all of that resentment and unleash it upon people who are weren't involved in a lot of that unpleasantness.
Anyway, hope you get a much deserved break.
1) Yes the vast majority of people replying are leaning in one direction. No one knows about lurkers
2) As we have seen here, and mentioned, we are not without a moderator. There are 2 or 3 others reading and posting. They just may not have the title "Single Player Moderator" under their name.
3) Floodgates open? Not from what I can see. People may have found things, but the rules are the rules. People are respecting and abiding by the rules.
Perhaps you just need a break if the fun has gone. Almost everyone here needs to take some time off. Whether it is 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years. This game is unique and can pull people back unlike anything.
OMG. I hit refresh... there goes my 40 minutes.
here coms the shorthand of what i was going to say.
- I'm somewhat of a lurker.
- Repsect and kudos to all mods and dedicated member of SPF.
- hybrid rares? is cheesy. But it's on the same level as any forwarding of items. nothing special about hybrid rares.
- respect and full credit to those who experiment with time travelling. I think you deserve the same amount of credit as those who research/ed LK patterns - and River of Flames.
- interactions with other forum members? divide into 2 groups: one of written interaction via threads like ItemFound/Mat/Pat and one of interaction/competition via SPTF and events like MFO
- written interaction
a) not against forum rules = fair game.
b) if you guardian with full hybrid rares. i'd love to read about it.
- interaction/competition - MFO
a) disallow any time travelled items.
b) allow any tainted' characters as long as no time travelled items are worn during the competition.
c) this creates more even playing field - allowing skill and 'luck' to be more of a factor
- SPTF
a) I don't trade - only traded when I first joined when sptf was quite active
b) class items are already prohibited - hybrid rares themselves won't be traded
c) no items found while wearing the hybrid rares shud be traded. - honour system.
d) concept of 'taint' is ideal; but hard to enforce. list hybrid rares/time travel in trade profile. ppl will avoid if they are against it.
e) if i had the chance of clean slating the sptf, i would divide it into... (and i feel starting now even with 'tainted' pool should be okay)
...1) pure vanilla. no mod ever. no extra statsh, no rwm
...2) FAM - extra stashm rwm - ebugging prohibited.
...3) time travel + FAM - extra stash, rwm - classic items are not traded. items found while wearing classic items are fair game.
- closing thought
thank you to all mods and dedicated member of SPF that kept and will keep the SPF alive.
I will inevitably disappear and return many more times, and I hope SPF stays for as long as my love for D2 exists.
- Back to the darkness of my lil corner!
here coms the shorthand of what i was going to say.
- I'm somewhat of a lurker.
- Repsect and kudos to all mods and dedicated member of SPF.
- hybrid rares? is cheesy. But it's on the same level as any forwarding of items. nothing special about hybrid rares.
- respect and full credit to those who experiment with time travelling. I think you deserve the same amount of credit as those who research/ed LK patterns - and River of Flames.
- interactions with other forum members? divide into 2 groups: one of written interaction via threads like ItemFound/Mat/Pat and one of interaction/competition via SPTF and events like MFO
- written interaction
a) not against forum rules = fair game.
b) if you guardian with full hybrid rares. i'd love to read about it.
- interaction/competition - MFO
a) disallow any time travelled items.
b) allow any tainted' characters as long as no time travelled items are worn during the competition.
c) this creates more even playing field - allowing skill and 'luck' to be more of a factor
- SPTF
a) I don't trade - only traded when I first joined when sptf was quite active
b) class items are already prohibited - hybrid rares themselves won't be traded
c) no items found while wearing the hybrid rares shud be traded. - honour system.
d) concept of 'taint' is ideal; but hard to enforce. list hybrid rares/time travel in trade profile. ppl will avoid if they are against it.
e) if i had the chance of clean slating the sptf, i would divide it into... (and i feel starting now even with 'tainted' pool should be okay)
...1) pure vanilla. no mod ever. no extra statsh, no rwm
...2) FAM - extra stashm rwm - ebugging prohibited.
...3) time travel + FAM - extra stash, rwm - classic items are not traded. items found while wearing classic items are fair game.
- closing thought
thank you to all mods and dedicated member of SPF that kept and will keep the SPF alive.
I will inevitably disappear and return many more times, and I hope SPF stays for as long as my love for D2 exists.
- Back to the darkness of my lil corner!
- Aug 5, 2005
- 8,092
- 2,606
- 113
I don't agree hybrid rates are on the same level as forwarding an item. If you started in 1.07 and played the versions in order, you could easily have 1.07 items in the current patch.
A hybrid rare is like starting in Classic, hiding for the next 20 years and then opening everything in 1.13. The accepted rule always used to be you forward Classic > 1.07 > 1.10+.
For me the issue is not just about trading, it is about the community. I think the reason people don't trade is more that they don't want to trade, or need to trade, rather than the rules. For the people advocating tighter trading rules, I'm curious:
- What actually do you want to trade?
- Did you make a thread [Vanilla] ISO .... No time travel etc?
- How are you going to trade without GoMule/ATMA? Readouts are compulsory for trading (required to check for dupes).
The longer this debate goes on, the more I agree with the sentiments of Thy's post, although not necessarily the letter.
A hybrid rare is like starting in Classic, hiding for the next 20 years and then opening everything in 1.13. The accepted rule always used to be you forward Classic > 1.07 > 1.10+.
For me the issue is not just about trading, it is about the community. I think the reason people don't trade is more that they don't want to trade, or need to trade, rather than the rules. For the people advocating tighter trading rules, I'm curious:
- What actually do you want to trade?
- Did you make a thread [Vanilla] ISO .... No time travel etc?
- How are you going to trade without GoMule/ATMA? Readouts are compulsory for trading (required to check for dupes).
The longer this debate goes on, the more I agree with the sentiments of Thy's post, although not necessarily the letter.
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I'll pop back in just to answer some things address above and say smth I should've mentioned but forgot to.
This is something that got lost in my quick reiteration of the post after my accidental refreshing of the page.
My post is meant to only represent how "I" subdivide the versions of the game played on the SPF.
It is by no means fair, ideal, or even something realistic in terms of the categorizations.
All i meant to say was, yes lurkers are reading this, and here's my 2cents.
and the hybrid rares are obtained only via 'skipping' a version.
What i meant by 'same level as everything else' was that I personally group all time travelling as one big lump ;
cause for one, it is the least understood aspect of the game for me, and two, because it's something i doubt i'll ever get into.
As per the trade pool, I don't trade for two following reasons.
One, too many subdivions of the game 'verions'.
Two, too little people.
- I guess they both tie in together as one big reason. too many subdivisions resulting in too low a trade pool.
I was and am perfectly okay, however, with the e-mail exchange, the trade profile, the tracking of all high runes via screenshot/trade history, and etc.
I also meant the SPTF subdivisions in my previous post with the mind of the SPTF I remeber from way back then.
In a perfect world, I'd love to see one giant messy trade pool with the lower bound of pure vanilla and the upper bound of
anything forum accepted - including time travelling and extra stash and rwm.
Actually I guess two messy lumps, HC and SC.
Anyway, this one big trade pool would be much similar to the trading experience of the Battle.net years back.
I miss simply creating a room posting what you want, what you have, and haggling with a stranger who comes into the trade room.
I was never bothered to think whether his/heritem is tainted or if this item was obtained via hack/dupe several trades prior;
if I thought the stranger was legit, I assumed all his/her items were too.
Of course, this is unrealistic in the SPTF; but a man can dream. =P
EDIT:
This is something that got lost in my quick reiteration of the post after my accidental refreshing of the page.
My post is meant to only represent how "I" subdivide the versions of the game played on the SPF.
It is by no means fair, ideal, or even something realistic in terms of the categorizations.
All i meant to say was, yes lurkers are reading this, and here's my 2cents.
I fully understand the normal forwarding involves fowarding through all the patches one by one - or the important ones anyway -
and the hybrid rares are obtained only via 'skipping' a version.
What i meant by 'same level as everything else' was that I personally group all time travelling as one big lump ;
cause for one, it is the least understood aspect of the game for me, and two, because it's something i doubt i'll ever get into.
As per the trade pool, I don't trade for two following reasons.
One, too many subdivions of the game 'verions'.
Two, too little people.
- I guess they both tie in together as one big reason. too many subdivisions resulting in too low a trade pool.
I was and am perfectly okay, however, with the e-mail exchange, the trade profile, the tracking of all high runes via screenshot/trade history, and etc.
I also meant the SPTF subdivisions in my previous post with the mind of the SPTF I remeber from way back then.
In a perfect world, I'd love to see one giant messy trade pool with the lower bound of pure vanilla and the upper bound of
anything forum accepted - including time travelling and extra stash and rwm.
Actually I guess two messy lumps, HC and SC.
Anyway, this one big trade pool would be much similar to the trading experience of the Battle.net years back.
I miss simply creating a room posting what you want, what you have, and haggling with a stranger who comes into the trade room.
I was never bothered to think whether his/heritem is tainted or if this item was obtained via hack/dupe several trades prior;
if I thought the stranger was legit, I assumed all his/her items were too.
Of course, this is unrealistic in the SPTF; but a man can dream. =P
EDIT:
Omg you are right! I totally forgot you needed the readout for fingerprints. I guess there can never be a pure vanilla in the SPTF.
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T72on1
New member
- Feb 12, 2016
- 5,103
- 0
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I seem to think the same as a lot of others here: thanks a ton @Thyiad (and other mods for that matter) for all the things you have done here. Sorry to hear things went the way they did. However, it doesn't seem fair to compare us, who merely have a different opinion on what is / should be allowed on the SPF, with those who have been so negative to you. For example hybrid rares, you call it cheating all the time, while this thread has clearly shown it's a grey area, and most likely the same grey area any time traveling is and always has been in.
I hope your break will give you the rest you need and deserve. I also hope that, in the meantime, another mod gets 'officially' assigned as SPF mod, to avoid confusion and makes things clear for everyone, so also for people arriving at a later time or who haven't been following this thread.
@ThomasJohnsen Floodgates open? That's not how it felt to me. I came here only a year and a half ago because of the integrity of this forum, and to me it still seems pretty much intact. The only real issue for me is that, lately there seem to be quite some people mentioning or even stating that they are using a certain non-approved mod we all know by now. It's worrying that new people don't even try to read the rules anymore, although it must be said that re-writing the rules a bit to make clear that those mods not only aren't accepted, but also shouldn't be mentioned, seems to be in order. So yeah, when it comes to that point, we might have to make our stance more clear, although I still have the impression that it's actually what we do already.
I hope we can continue this thread in the way we did, and come to a conclusion on a rather short term.
Edit: @maxicek I only saw your post afterwards.
About the hybrid rares ... maybe a lot of people have the stance they do about it, because they don't know exactly what's going on. And even if they do, it's still a grey area. But I can see where the difference might be a big deal for people. In any case, it's something that I think can be discussed here, but in no way is something which is 100% obvious a cheat, as @Thyiad made it out to be. So I'm not sure why you wrote the last sentence you wrote there. Can't we discuss this open minded, and if something, someone's statement or opinion, goes too far, address the issue right away? I'm still pretty confident we'll get there that way eventually.
I hope your break will give you the rest you need and deserve. I also hope that, in the meantime, another mod gets 'officially' assigned as SPF mod, to avoid confusion and makes things clear for everyone, so also for people arriving at a later time or who haven't been following this thread.
@ThomasJohnsen Floodgates open? That's not how it felt to me. I came here only a year and a half ago because of the integrity of this forum, and to me it still seems pretty much intact. The only real issue for me is that, lately there seem to be quite some people mentioning or even stating that they are using a certain non-approved mod we all know by now. It's worrying that new people don't even try to read the rules anymore, although it must be said that re-writing the rules a bit to make clear that those mods not only aren't accepted, but also shouldn't be mentioned, seems to be in order. So yeah, when it comes to that point, we might have to make our stance more clear, although I still have the impression that it's actually what we do already.
I hope we can continue this thread in the way we did, and come to a conclusion on a rather short term.
Edit: @maxicek I only saw your post afterwards.
About the hybrid rares ... maybe a lot of people have the stance they do about it, because they don't know exactly what's going on. And even if they do, it's still a grey area. But I can see where the difference might be a big deal for people. In any case, it's something that I think can be discussed here, but in no way is something which is 100% obvious a cheat, as @Thyiad made it out to be. So I'm not sure why you wrote the last sentence you wrote there. Can't we discuss this open minded, and if something, someone's statement or opinion, goes too far, address the issue right away? I'm still pretty confident we'll get there that way eventually.
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Some random thoughts about the hybrid rares. No objective truths, just how I personally feel. Also things are not that black/white like I now put them; pros and cons may differ from point of view, of course.
Pros:
- Increases longevity of the game. Yet another thing to do in this game! While D2 certainly has enough stuff to do and try as it is, doing something this different could give a really refreshing experience. Fun & challenge, at the same time.
- They don't break the game; items we are talking about, would be of interested mainly if one wanted to further optimize a gold or magic finding character. REMINDER: when talking about MF, it has severe diminishing returns. Even bringing these items to the MFO and the like would give very minor advantage, if at all. How you play and how's your map plays far bigger role after certain ("basic") level of MF and items quality is achieved.
- Opens up more possible builds. This is mainly about the possibility of these in classic. Achieving breakpoints that were not available before in classic could possibly be available with these. I'm not an expert of classic, and these might indeed have quite bigger potential there instead of LoD. How many plays 1.10+ classic btw? Comments? Could the best possible hybrid be too good for classic? REMINDER: it's a really long grind ahead if you want to have many usable hybrid rares. First, it's a little challenge to get a pre-LoD character to higher levels. Secondly farming there is quite the work, thridly it's one hell of a hassle to mule all the items you want to try luck with. Lastly, probably 99% of items you bring forward will turn out to be crap. I'm quite a grinder when it comes to getting the best possible items, but honestly, I'm not sure if I'm up to this task, at least "big time"
Cons:
- Not everyone feels right with playing against people who might have stuff like these on their characters (MFO and other not untwinked tournaments). But check the first reminder.
- Yet another thing to consider with trading. Not necessarily a bad thing if discussing these things have a good impact in the end.
- Justifying the use of these is not simple. While there doesn't need to be third party available (these things would happen when simply upgrading your vanilla 1.00 install to a vanilla 1.14 for example), it still doesn't follow the usual progression with the stop at the 1.07 first.
Labeling these "cheat" or "100% legit and fine" is an opinion, not a fact. This is Single Player after all. And yes, discussing these would be nice, instead of sweeping the issue under the rug.
Note: I haven't tried these myself, testing environments or for real. And I'm not sure when/if I'll bother. It's a very small minority here who even play any pre-LoD patches at all. I think this would actually be a nice incentive to try those ancients patches for more people.
I can't force anyone, but it would be very nice that before commenting about the hybrid rares, go read the posts in the 1.00 gossip thread to get an idea what these even are and what are the possible outcomes.
Pros:
- Increases longevity of the game. Yet another thing to do in this game! While D2 certainly has enough stuff to do and try as it is, doing something this different could give a really refreshing experience. Fun & challenge, at the same time.
- They don't break the game; items we are talking about, would be of interested mainly if one wanted to further optimize a gold or magic finding character. REMINDER: when talking about MF, it has severe diminishing returns. Even bringing these items to the MFO and the like would give very minor advantage, if at all. How you play and how's your map plays far bigger role after certain ("basic") level of MF and items quality is achieved.
- Opens up more possible builds. This is mainly about the possibility of these in classic. Achieving breakpoints that were not available before in classic could possibly be available with these. I'm not an expert of classic, and these might indeed have quite bigger potential there instead of LoD. How many plays 1.10+ classic btw? Comments? Could the best possible hybrid be too good for classic? REMINDER: it's a really long grind ahead if you want to have many usable hybrid rares. First, it's a little challenge to get a pre-LoD character to higher levels. Secondly farming there is quite the work, thridly it's one hell of a hassle to mule all the items you want to try luck with. Lastly, probably 99% of items you bring forward will turn out to be crap. I'm quite a grinder when it comes to getting the best possible items, but honestly, I'm not sure if I'm up to this task, at least "big time"
Cons:
- Not everyone feels right with playing against people who might have stuff like these on their characters (MFO and other not untwinked tournaments). But check the first reminder.
- Yet another thing to consider with trading. Not necessarily a bad thing if discussing these things have a good impact in the end.
- Justifying the use of these is not simple. While there doesn't need to be third party available (these things would happen when simply upgrading your vanilla 1.00 install to a vanilla 1.14 for example), it still doesn't follow the usual progression with the stop at the 1.07 first.
Labeling these "cheat" or "100% legit and fine" is an opinion, not a fact. This is Single Player after all. And yes, discussing these would be nice, instead of sweeping the issue under the rug.
Note: I haven't tried these myself, testing environments or for real. And I'm not sure when/if I'll bother. It's a very small minority here who even play any pre-LoD patches at all. I think this would actually be a nice incentive to try those ancients patches for more people.
I can't force anyone, but it would be very nice that before commenting about the hybrid rares, go read the posts in the 1.00 gossip thread to get an idea what these even are and what are the possible outcomes.
/lurk
This has been the most dramatic thread that I can recall here in the SPF. Hats off to @Thyiad and all the other mods and content contributors for all you've done keeping this a great place to spend time and intellect, its been a bookmark in my web browser for a long, long time and will continue as far as I can see.
<--- goes to look up 1.00 gossip so that I can form an educated opinion
lurk
This has been the most dramatic thread that I can recall here in the SPF. Hats off to @Thyiad and all the other mods and content contributors for all you've done keeping this a great place to spend time and intellect, its been a bookmark in my web browser for a long, long time and will continue as far as I can see.
<--- goes to look up 1.00 gossip so that I can form an educated opinion
lurk
T72on1
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- Feb 12, 2016
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I was going to mention this in my previous post, but somehow forgot. I've seen this argument being used a lot lately when it comes to whether or not something should be allowed. While I'm all for more fun in D2, I think this can never be a reason to allow something or not. After all, you could use the same reasoning to allow for example the Über Tristram event or a mod which allows players to have a class use all skills available. Sure it would be fun to test a Leap Attack / Martial Arts Druid and increase the longevity of the game, but I think we all agree as to why those aren't allowed here.
Good point. What about increasing the longevity without any additional mods?
However, the fact that I'm allowed to search and bring 1.07 items forward (charms, crafts etc.), has already added a lot to my D2 experience, personally. This could be a similar experience for many.
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