The PvP Thread
- Thread starter nulio
- Start date
Delsy
Active member
- Oct 16, 2013
- 502
- 94
- 28
Nice games Mir and FFS. Froz thanks for hosting.
@Miron can you point me to your pvp chars writeups? I just checked and both Redeemer and Lacerator are range 1 weapons. BotD BA would do a better job IMO. Since you're quite good with that pally I think it'd be worth trying.
@Miron can you point me to your pvp chars writeups? I just checked and both Redeemer and Lacerator are range 1 weapons. BotD BA would do a better job IMO. Since you're quite good with that pally I think it'd be worth trying.
- Mar 24, 2020
- 284
- 269
- 63
@Delsy here is my paladin (https://www.purediablo.com/forums/threads/the-pvp-thread.299/page-33#post-113966) - post 655, I made some changes, dropped some FHR for more HP but main gear is the same.
Regarding BotD, I thought it does nothing for smite (main attack) vs Redeemer or Lacerator (?)
2 things I noticed yesterday that can still be improved:
- I have about 6300 AR and when I used enchant (~8500 AR) the difference was noticeable.
- I joined without armor (CoH) and my resists were ~70 without it, I guess I can drop about 20 resists for AR/HP or use a different armor.
Any advice guys?
Regarding BotD, I thought it does nothing for smite (main attack) vs Redeemer or Lacerator (?)
2 things I noticed yesterday that can still be improved:
- I have about 6300 AR and when I used enchant (~8500 AR) the difference was noticeable.
- I joined without armor (CoH) and my resists were ~70 without it, I guess I can drop about 20 resists for AR/HP or use a different armor.
Any advice guys?
Thanks for hosting yesterday @frozzzen and good games @Miron and @Delsy! Both bowie and V/T are interesting matchups as ghost.
Yeah BotD is no good for V/T, it's really tough without Grief for that build. When focusing on Smite build-wise rather than FoH, Lacerator is probably good in vanilla. But perhaps without Grief it makes sense to go for T/V with max FoH damage and things like Redeemer or Astreon, so that at least you get good FoH damage. I did that even with Grief on mine (given Grief Smite will always be solid).
As for AR, you're aware you only need it for Charge right? Smite doesn't need AR. For Charge I'd say 6.3k is OK, at least I wouldn't bother buffing with Demon Limb.
I'll try to bring 1-2 new characters next weekend. Been leveling a Druid and an Assassin that will become a 163 FCR vita Windy and WW/Trap hybrid, respectively. Should be able to get at least one of them ready this week.
Yeah BotD is no good for V/T, it's really tough without Grief for that build. When focusing on Smite build-wise rather than FoH, Lacerator is probably good in vanilla. But perhaps without Grief it makes sense to go for T/V with max FoH damage and things like Redeemer or Astreon, so that at least you get good FoH damage. I did that even with Grief on mine (given Grief Smite will always be solid).
As for AR, you're aware you only need it for Charge right? Smite doesn't need AR. For Charge I'd say 6.3k is OK, at least I wouldn't bother buffing with Demon Limb.
I'll try to bring 1-2 new characters next weekend. Been leveling a Druid and an Assassin that will become a 163 FCR vita Windy and WW/Trap hybrid, respectively. Should be able to get at least one of them ready this week.
Delsy
Active member
- Oct 16, 2013
- 502
- 94
- 28
@Miron I took a quick look and considering your playstyle I'd change the following:
Weapon - BotD BA. You get range (3), IAS, superior Charge damage, tons of stats.
Shield - Upgrade it! Without Grief, you absolutely need that damage.
Gloves - Bloodfists for FHR/Life. Death gloves vs Poison chars.
Boots - Gores.
Amulet - Highlord.
Ring 2 - Do not stat around it. Use Nature's Peace. Wisp/Raven/Dwarf as sorb.
Other - stat Str for gear, Dex for 75 block, rest to Vit. Ber in Shako/HoZ would be ideal, resists and FHR can be gained trough inventory. Level up to 89-90, it's a few hours at Eldritch/Pindle.
Weapon - BotD BA. You get range (3), IAS, superior Charge damage, tons of stats.
Shield - Upgrade it! Without Grief, you absolutely need that damage.
Gloves - Bloodfists for FHR/Life. Death gloves vs Poison chars.
Boots - Gores.
Amulet - Highlord.
Ring 2 - Do not stat around it. Use Nature's Peace. Wisp/Raven/Dwarf as sorb.
Other - stat Str for gear, Dex for 75 block, rest to Vit. Ber in Shako/HoZ would be ideal, resists and FHR can be gained trough inventory. Level up to 89-90, it's a few hours at Eldritch/Pindle.
Re weapon indeed BotD is great, but I'd say then you should really focus on Charge in terms of gameplay. It does add range and provides great stats, but it gives you no damage for FoH or Smite except from its stats (with its vitality not being BO-able though).
To me it looks like this for V/Ts or T/Vs in the vanilla D2 world:
BotD = best for Charge, higher character life, best range, bad for Smite and FoH
Lacerator = best for Smite, bad for FoH, no other benefits
Astreon's = best for FoH, good for Smite, fast
Redeemer = decent FoH, decent Smite, slower
Personally if I was playing vanilla I'd use Astreon's on my T/V because it's a good package except for the low range... then again same range as Grief PB and I don't mind using that on my T/V either. But as Delsy said it's a lot about the playstyle. If you mostly use Charge, BotD is great.
To me it looks like this for V/Ts or T/Vs in the vanilla D2 world:
BotD = best for Charge, higher character life, best range, bad for Smite and FoH
Lacerator = best for Smite, bad for FoH, no other benefits
Astreon's = best for FoH, good for Smite, fast
Redeemer = decent FoH, decent Smite, slower
Personally if I was playing vanilla I'd use Astreon's on my T/V because it's a good package except for the low range... then again same range as Grief PB and I don't mind using that on my T/V either. But as Delsy said it's a lot about the playstyle. If you mostly use Charge, BotD is great.
Who's up for games this weekend? Which days?
Vita Druid is ready. I think playing him will be more fun than my max block Windy, both for me (faster casting) and you guys (no block).
Hybrid Sin still needs to get a couple of levels, not sure when she'll be ready. I don't feel like doing any more Baal runs atm.
So far I held off on making a Bowazon because it's rather underwhelming compared not only to SP style with time-travel gear but also compared to bnet versions. But want to give her a try nonetheless. Actually spent a considerable amount of time in excel sheets to come up with some kind of setup optimized based on my gear, and I think I landed on the below approach.
@Delsy what do you think, any changes/improvements that come to mind?
FWIW, I do have other Faith options with DB and GMB, and a nice circlet: +2 P&M, 20 FRW, 2os currently socketed with 2x RJoF. I theorycrafted some setups gearing around that circlet first but concluded Mat Bow + Kira's allows use of much better charms, resulting in better damage and overall stats.
Vita Druid is ready. I think playing him will be more fun than my max block Windy, both for me (faster casting) and you guys (no block).
Hybrid Sin still needs to get a couple of levels, not sure when she'll be ready. I don't feel like doing any more Baal runs atm.So far I held off on making a Bowazon because it's rather underwhelming compared not only to SP style with time-travel gear but also compared to bnet versions. But want to give her a try nonetheless. Actually spent a considerable amount of time in excel sheets to come up with some kind of setup optimized based on my gear, and I think I landed on the below approach.
@Delsy what do you think, any changes/improvements that come to mind?
Gear:
- Faith Mat Bow
- Kira's (IAS/res)
- Fortitude
- Craft KB gloves IAS and +2 Bow/Xbow (don't have P&M ones currently)
- Craft OW (9%) belt with life, FHR and resists
- War Traveler
- Cat's Eye
- Ring 1: Str, dex, life, mana
- Ring 2: Flexible, probably default Nature's Peace (TBD depends on whether I feel Oak uptime is good enough)
- Switch: eth upped Titan's, Stormshield -req/ED
Charms/inventory:
- couple of Sharp/FRW GCs
- Mostly fine SCs with FRW and life, some FRW/resist to max out resists
- CtA in cube
Build:
- max GA, MS for 20+ arrows
- D/A/E for about 55/55/65%
- CS for about 67%
Key stats roughly:
- 7 frame attack
- 7 frame hit recovery
- roughly 120 FRW depending on exact charms
- roughly 420 avg GA PvP dmg depending on exact charms, not factoring in CS% nor opponent %DR
- 8-9k MS AR (worth buffing more with Demon Limb?)
- 9% OW
- 2.2k life (no Oak), 2.8k with Oak
- 340 mana (enough for Multi spam?)
- max all resist
- 35% DR and max block on javelin switch (enough DR? Ber'ed SS better than -req? Could always swap in Verdungo for 50% though)
- Faith Mat Bow
- Kira's (IAS/res)
- Fortitude
- Craft KB gloves IAS and +2 Bow/Xbow (don't have P&M ones currently)
- Craft OW (9%) belt with life, FHR and resists
- War Traveler
- Cat's Eye
- Ring 1: Str, dex, life, mana
- Ring 2: Flexible, probably default Nature's Peace (TBD depends on whether I feel Oak uptime is good enough)
- Switch: eth upped Titan's, Stormshield -req/ED
Charms/inventory:
- couple of Sharp/FRW GCs
- Mostly fine SCs with FRW and life, some FRW/resist to max out resists
- CtA in cube
Build:
- max GA, MS for 20+ arrows
- D/A/E for about 55/55/65%
- CS for about 67%
Key stats roughly:
- 7 frame attack
- 7 frame hit recovery
- roughly 120 FRW depending on exact charms
- roughly 420 avg GA PvP dmg depending on exact charms, not factoring in CS% nor opponent %DR
- 8-9k MS AR (worth buffing more with Demon Limb?)
- 9% OW
- 2.2k life (no Oak), 2.8k with Oak
- 340 mana (enough for Multi spam?)
- max all resist
- 35% DR and max block on javelin switch (enough DR? Ber'ed SS better than -req? Could always swap in Verdungo for 50% though)
FWIW, I do have other Faith options with DB and GMB, and a nice circlet: +2 P&M, 20 FRW, 2os currently socketed with 2x RJoF. I theorycrafted some setups gearing around that circlet first but concluded Mat Bow + Kira's allows use of much better charms, resulting in better damage and overall stats.
Delsy
Active member
- Oct 16, 2013
- 502
- 94
- 28
@ffs Pretty much what I'd do in 1.14.
Natures Peace is mainly a counter to Mind Blast. But since it has Oak as well, I use it all the time.
You'd want Ravenfrost vs cold chars so keep that in mind.
OW belt, Dungos, 1.14 Mavina are interchangeable. I'd most likely use Dungos.
120 FRW at bow slot, 150 at Titans would be my minimum.
Prebuff BO from stash. Bowa is relatively weak, you absolutely want those 4 tiles. I will wait for you for sure. If you need repairs, arrows etc. and you feel like it takes too long just skip one round.
Prebuff from Demon Limb for sure. Every AR based char should do it, period. Even big boy Froz does it now.
Max MS is a no brainer for me. 340 mana is enough. You will be chugging trough potions regardless. You'll learn to discern critical moments when you need to press it.
Other - 1 pt Valk, Pierce, LF, Jab. Looks good.
Natures Peace is mainly a counter to Mind Blast. But since it has Oak as well, I use it all the time.
You'd want Ravenfrost vs cold chars so keep that in mind.
OW belt, Dungos, 1.14 Mavina are interchangeable. I'd most likely use Dungos.
120 FRW at bow slot, 150 at Titans would be my minimum.
Prebuff BO from stash. Bowa is relatively weak, you absolutely want those 4 tiles. I will wait for you for sure. If you need repairs, arrows etc. and you feel like it takes too long just skip one round.
Prebuff from Demon Limb for sure. Every AR based char should do it, period. Even big boy Froz does it now.
Max MS is a no brainer for me. 340 mana is enough. You will be chugging trough potions regardless. You'll learn to discern critical moments when you need to press it.
Other - 1 pt Valk, Pierce, LF, Jab. Looks good.
@Delsy thanks for confirming because I had already made her that way when you replied. And yeah remaining build and gear swap options are those you mentioned.
Hmm I'll see how it goes in practice, prima facie I thought I'd prefer carrying the cube most of the time. Thinking with low + skill levels BO duration is bad anyway, and if it runs out and I can't re-BO, she will be even more fragile. I can also fit in Mara's/SoJ or something to at least improve BO lvl a little, as well as Demon Limb, so I wouldn't have to visit the stash every single round.
@frozzzen I wondered the same. Granted I haven't compared precise ideal setups but even with perfect 1.14 items and bnet charms I don't see how that would be in the same ballbarpk as a well built 1.07 bowie. So many 1.07 shenanigans that are helpful for this specific build. Damage charms are crazy of course, but it's also way easier to ramp up FRW from charms and M'avina's, and you can get better stats from all those crafted items that are interesting for this built (gloves/belt/ring)... simply put, everything is stronger. Only upside I see for ideal bnet gear is anni/torch will result in nice life/mana and easy resist coverage, but with beta CtA that probably nets out to at least comparable amounts as well.
And yeah remaining build and gear swap options are those you mentioned. Hmm I'll see how it goes in practice, prima facie I thought I'd prefer carrying the cube most of the time. Thinking with low + skill levels BO duration is bad anyway, and if it runs out and I can't re-BO, she will be even more fragile. I can also fit in Mara's/SoJ or something to at least improve BO lvl a little, as well as Demon Limb, so I wouldn't have to visit the stash every single round.
@frozzzen I wondered the same. Granted I haven't compared precise ideal setups but even with perfect 1.14 items and bnet charms I don't see how that would be in the same ballbarpk as a well built 1.07 bowie. So many 1.07 shenanigans that are helpful for this specific build. Damage charms are crazy of course, but it's also way easier to ramp up FRW from charms and M'avina's, and you can get better stats from all those crafted items that are interesting for this built (gloves/belt/ring)... simply put, everything is stronger.
Only upside I see for ideal bnet gear is anni/torch will result in nice life/mana and easy resist coverage, but with beta CtA that probably nets out to at least comparable amounts as well.
- Apr 4, 2020
- 311
- 298
- 63
@Nagisa is a master of building budget bowazons. His bowas only had like 800 life, but they were unbeatable! He could give some pointers.
Anyway, good news and bad news.
Bad news is adventurous switch flipped in me so at weekends I'm rarely, very rarely home unless weather is terrible, even then I go film the storms if there are lightnings.
Good news. You won't have to play against best and most interesting PvP build out there, the blizzard sorc! Or that's bad news probably. Likely good though.
Anyway, good news and bad news.
Bad news is adventurous switch flipped in me so at weekends I'm rarely, very rarely home unless weather is terrible, even then I go film the storms if there are lightnings.
Good news. You won't have to play against best and most interesting PvP build out there, the blizzard sorc! Or that's bad news probably. Likely good though.
Google