D2R - Weapon Dex Bug - Help needed with testing and researching

[NorthDakota]

Hi guys,

Buckle in because this post is going to wade pretty deep into the weeds so it's not going to be fun at all.

The Weapon Dex Bug​

When am I weapon dex bugged?
If you are a pitzerker with Grief / Ali Baba in OH - please watch out, this might affect you.

The situation where this bug arises

1. You're a dual wielding character (barb/assn)
2. One of your weapons has +dexterity on it (call this weapon 1)
3. Your other weapon requires more dexterity than the weapon with +dexterity on it (call this weapon 2)

When you are dex bugged your weapon 2 will not function properly.

You are dex bugged when: [Your Char's Dex] is between {weapon 2's dex requirement} up to {weapon 2's dex requirement + (weapon 1's added dex -1)}

To illustrate, I tested with this setup:

Weapon: Ali Baba with +6 dexterity
Weapon: Grief phase blade
Dexterity: 130 hard points, +6 from Ali Baba to reach 136 for grief.
Strength: 70 hard points, enough to equip Ali Baba

To calculate when I'd be dexterity bugged, I would do this: [(136 + 6) - 1] = 141. So I will be dex bugged from 136 to 141. At 142 I will no longer be dex bugged.

Another case to explain - If I was wearing an ali baba with +15 dexterity, I would calculate like this: [(136 + 15) - 1] = 150. So I will be dex bugged from 136 to 150, at 151 I will no longer be dex bugged.

Additionally, it doesn't have to be hard points into dexterity. For example, if I had 130 soft points into dex (hard points + dex from equipment) and then put on my +6 ali baba, I would be able to wear the grief, but I would be weapon dex bugged from 136 up to 141 dex points. So it doesn't matter in the calculation whether they're hard or soft points, it only matters how much dex is on the lower dex requirement weapon.

What does the Weapon Dex Bug Do?​

When you are dex bugged, the stats on the weapon which are listed here: https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php?title=Two_weapons#Weapon_modifier will not apply properly.

There are other funky unintuitive effects to dex bugging which I verified through testing. For example, no matter what you do, equipping the faster weapon over the boots always will result in attacking faster. In this case, putting my grief above my boots will attack faster in all situations, with all skills, regardless of re-equipping or hitting the weapon swap hotkey or whatever you do. Faster weapon over boots while dex bugged = attack faster.

Another funky thing which the OP from reddit noticed is that no matter what you do while dex bugged, the non-dex bugged weapon will display on your character in the character's right hand, and you will always attack with that weapon first.

​

Edit: After more thinking about this, I'm not so sure it needs any more testing or figuring out, except maybe technical details. The effects are straightforward - you'll be goofed up if you're in those dex ranges, attacking slower. That's it. Possibly attack stats won't apply properly.

 

[NorthDakota]

More info:



Testing: Skill Functionality While Dex Bugged:
(with above setup - Naked Barb w/ Ali Baba +6 dex, 130 hard points into to dex, and grief phase blade)

1.Default Attack

Weapon Equip Location	Attack Speed	What Attacks First?	Does Re-equipping have any effect?	Does weapon swap hotkey have any effect?
Ali Baba above gloves, Grief above boots	Faster	Whichever weapon you didn't attack with last	No	No
Grief above gloves, Ali Baba above boots	Slower	Whichever weapon you didn't attack with last	No	No

2.Double Swing

Weapon Equip Location	Attack Speed	What Attacks First?	Does Re-equipping have any effect?	Does weapon swap hotkey have any effect?
Ali Baba above gloves, Grief above boots	Faster	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No
Grief above gloves, Ali Baba above boots	Slower	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No

3.Beserk

Weapon Equip Location	Attack Speed	What Attacks First?	Does Re-equipping have any effect?	Does weapon swap hotkey have any effect?
Ali Baba above gloves, Grief above boots	Faster	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No
Grief above gloves, Ali Baba above boots	Slower	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No

4.Concentrate

Weapon Equip Location	Attack Speed	What Attacks First?	Does Re-equipping have any effect?	Does weapon swap hotkey have any effect?
Ali Baba above gloves, Grief above boots	Faster	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No
Grief above gloves, Ali Baba above boots	Slower	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No

5.Frenzy

Weapon Equip Location	Attack Speed	What Attacks First?	Does Re-equipping have any effect?	Does weapon swap hotkey have any effect?
Ali Baba above gloves, Grief above boots	Faster	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No
Grief above gloves, Ali Baba above boots	Slower	Ali Baba (R Hand)	No	No

Once the Weapon Dex Bug is resolved (i.e., I put enough points to reach 142 dex) - The attack speed column flips, Grief above gloves always results in faster attacks.

Additionally once the weapon dex bug is resolved, you attack with whatever weapon is equipped over the gloves first (again, no matter what you do, equip/requip, weapon swap hotkey, etc)

 

[coju]

Not that it specifically applies, but my assassin from d2L’s claws are not allowed/usable/equipped because the unique claw gives like, 15 to dex and str and I was using that in order to equip them.
You have to be able to equip the item without using the plus stats from them item or it’ll be red/unusable. Was frustrating trying to save 10 str points twinking chars using sigons gloves. I don’t want 60 str I only want 48…
So there does appear to be something different with how stats and items are interacting when you don’t have the hard points.

 

[coju]

So, do you actually attack Faster during some of this bugging? Or do you wind up having to invest more into dex to attack at normal speed?

 

[NorthDakota]

You have to be able to equip the item without using the plus stats from them item or it’ll be red/unusable.

So this is different because you aren't relying on dexterity granted from the "bugged" item. It's other items giving the dex. So you are meeting the dexterity requirements of the weapon, and it's bugged to not function correctly.

You attack fastest when you are not bugged at all.

When bugged, you attack fastest with the faster weapon over your boots in all cases, however you are not gaining IAS from the bugged weapon, so it's better in all cases to not be bugged. When I say "faster" in the tables, it is only to give information about how the bugged state works, to provide information to possibly help discern how the bug functions. These comparisons are all within the bugged state. It's always far better to not be bugged.

So this bug has no potential to be abused it's all downsides

 

[saracen85]

I'm on Legacy, playing a Berserker's Set WW Barb. The set weapon is set to off-hand, while I'm using a Rune Master (with -60% reqs). Everytime I weapon switch, the Berserker Set weapon keeps reverting to my main hand.

Even though WW has no preference on weapon placement, I'd still like to have my damage-dealing weapon as main for situational purposes (Conc, Berserk etc). Worse, I weapon switch a lot since I rely heavily on war cries.

I wonder if the -reqs is the reason for this anomaly and whether it's related to the bug..

 

[NorthDakota]

I'm on Legacy, playing a Berserker's Set WW Barb. The set weapon is set to off-hand, while I'm using a Rune Master (with -60% reqs). Everytime I weapon switch, the Berserker Set weapon keeps reverting to my main hand.

Hm. Is this related to the WSM bug? Do they actually swap places in your inventory? Like swap from over your boots to over gloves and vice versa? Or is it just how they are on your character in game? It's definitely not related to this particular bug but there's funky stuff that goes on with weapon swapping in legacy

 

[Babyhell]

-_-

It seems that they only touched the graphics

-_-

 

[saracen85]

@NorthDakota

I've always thought that WSM bug is the act of actively unequipping and re-equipping the "faster" weapon from glove side to boot side.

Mine was automatic. The only other time I notice this was when I was using the BK set, where I used one sword to equip the other. I remedied that by putting enough points to equip the higer reqs sword.

I read (or watch) somewhere that when the game does an equip-check, it follows the base reqs of the item, disregarding any addition of -reqs. Maybe that's why?

 

[Gynli]

I had this trouble with wolf barb on Bnet, when switching from Oath Barlog Blade + wizzy to Grief PB + wizzy.
Base line was that this is a new bug/feature after fixing the str-bug.

In the situation when you have enough base stats to equip one weapon and not the other; the former weapon will always be considered "main" weapon regardless of position. When you have enough base stats to equip both, glove slot weapon is considered "main".
I haven't tested when you don't have enough base stats for either.

My experience was as below:

Glove slot​	enough base stat?​	Boots slot​	enough base stat?​	Wolf swings with...​
Eth Oath Barlog	Yes	Wizzy	Yes	Oath Barlog
Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy	Yes	Wizzy
Wizzy	Yes	Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy
Charsi magic weapon	Yes	Wizzy	Yes	Charsi
Wizzy	Yes	Charsi	Yes	Wizzy
Grief PB	YES (136 base)	Wizzy	Yes	Grief
Wizzy	Yes	Grief PB	YES (136 base)	Wizzy
Weapon 1	NO	Weapon 2	NO	???

So from my experience it wasn't the +dex from the off-weapon; but actually from the Raven Frost.
Also, it seemed it wasn't just a visual glitch, because the damage difference was definitely noticeable.
(i.e. the wolf wasn't swing Grief PB at wizzy speed; it was actually swinging the wizzy).

 

[NorthDakota]

Glove slot	enough base stat?	Boots slot	enough base stat?	Wolf swings with...
Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy	Yes	Wizzy
Wizzy	Yes	Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy

These are surprising. Help me understand better. So in this case you're saying that you are over 136 dexterity (but not with base stats alone?), and it's still glitched out?

If you continue equipping items that give dex, will you ever reach a value where normal behavior resumes? or will you always attack with wiz spike until you allocate hard points into dex?

 

[Gynli]

Yup. I could equip Grief PB with the help of Raven Frost (~140dex with +18dex RF, iirc).
in both Grief/Wizzy and Wizzy/Grief setup, the wolfbarb swung with wizzy speed and it did no damage to mobs.

I can't actually remember if I tested it with Concentrate as well - was a conc barb until I could equip Wolfhowl -;
but I do remember that was the conclusion I came to.


I'm not sure what you mean by continue equipping; but I didn't put on anything to equip the Grief that I took off afterwards.


I do want to give credit to the guy who commented - complained - on the main blizzard forum, about how he had to put enough base stats to resolve the bug; but I can't seem to find the post anymore.

Spoiler: cleanup

EDIT: quick google search on the main blizzard forum suggests that +stats from items are NOT considered the same way as D2L for equipping items - due to the fixing of the str-bug; so I assume +stats from torch and anni and other charms should work as intended.

what I mean by above is that items "are" equipped and their bonuses are applied as normal.

EDIT2: another "if I were in their shoes" kind of thinking...
to fix the str-bug i would...
1. use the base stats to first equip whatever's possible.
2. use the new stats to equip the remaining.

if the above process was true...

Glove slot	enough base stat?	Boots slot	enough base stat?	Wolf swings with...
Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy	Yes	Wizzy
Wizzy	Yes	Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy

would mean that in both cases,
- Wizzy would be equipped in step #1 => therefore becoming the main-hand.
- Raven would be equipped step #1, boosting Dex to above 136
- Grief PB would be equipped in step #2 => thereby becoming the off-hand.

** now the questino would be, are +stats from Charms considered in step #1 or step #2 ?

Of course, this is all speculation on my part. so fair warning.

EDIT3:
BIIIG warning here; because this all just based on my speculations and without solid proof.

Based on the complaints from people on the main Blizzard forum, I think...
the dev fixed the D2L str-bug by...
1. using the base stats to first eqiup whatever's possible
2. using the new stats to equip the remaining

if the above process was true,

Glove slot	enough base stat?	Boots slot	enough base stat?	Wolf swings with...
Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy	Yes	Wizzy
Wizzy	Yes	Grief PB	No (Raven needed)	Wizzy

would makes sense because...
- Wizzy would be equipped first in step #1 -> thereby becoming the main-hand
- Raven Frost would be equipped first in step #1 -> boosting Dex to above 136
- Grief PB would be equipped in step #2 -> thereby becoming the off-hand

* now my question is, are +stats from charms considered in step #1 or step #2?

** based on above, I would assume in below situation, Weapon 1 would be considered "main".
because they are both equipped in the same step.

Glove slot	enough base stat?	Boots slot	enough base stat?	Wolf swings with...
Weapon 1	NO	Weapon 2	NO	probably Weapon 1

 

[NorthDakota]

@Gynli

Okay interesting. So in my case, where I HAVE to equip the ali baba first, there's nothing I can do (except get my dex over 141)

However, in your case, if your idea about it is right, if you equipped in this order: Ravenfrost, grief (gloves), wizzy (boots) - Then do you swing with grief?

If you swing with grief in that case, if you weapon swap hotkey and swap back, do you swing with grief? My guess is you're swinging with wizzy then because swapping away and back is kinda like re-equipping it, so you'll now swing with wizzy.

Side note: Isn't this funny? It's definitely related to their fix with the strength bug and how items are equipped. I'd bet you a dollar the OG devs left things bugged exactly because they knew fixing it would cause more problems, unless they made major changes to the code or something. Then new devs came in, decided to "fix" it, and made the mistake the OG devs avoided. TBH - I'd far prefer str bugging just existed and this didn't because this is so unintuitive and can happen just by accident and have negative effects. Whereas in D2L the bugs had positive effects and required game knowledge to actually do, so it didn't impact the casual player. This impacts the casual player, they won't really know why their stuff is goofed up.

My guess is this bug stays for a long time.


Edit: I'm wondering if this bug happens for dual wielding in the same way with str as well.

 

[Gynli]

@NorthDakota

...
Okay interesting. So in my case, where I HAVE to equip the ali baba first, there's nothing I can do (except get my dex over 141)
...

Yes, assuming your only source of +dex is from Alibaba.
If you also have other +dex items - e.g. RF - you'd have to consider +dex from those as well.
Another option - i think - would be get base dex below both requirements. Upping alibaba could help with that perhaps.
Now that I look at it, I wonder if using upped Alibaba without meeting str req and using PB without meeting dex req would resolve this bug.

...
However, in your case, if your idea about it is right, if you equipped in this order: Ravenfrost, grief (gloves), wizzy (boots) - Then do you swing with grief?
....

Nope, you swing with Wizzy. Guess I forgot to mention the order of equipping them didn't matter.

...
Edit: I'm wondering if this bug happens for dual wielding in the same way with str as well.

Yup.. that would be my guess.

Also, again, I'll make sure to mention all this is based on my short, insufficient tests; and should not be considered facts.

 

[NorthDakota]

Alright, well I just confirmed about other equipment. I tested this setup - naked barb wiz/grief/raven, and I am bugged with base stat below 136. Weird. I thought I accounted for this when I was testing with crown of thieves which also grants dex. Maybe I just messed it up though.

Edit: Uhhh... I didn't mess it up... this is so weird. I am not bugged while under 136 base dex and wearing crown of thieves.

1. 118 base dex, 142 w/ crown of thieves, grief over gloves, wiz over boots - NOT BUGGED. Attack with grief.
2. 118 base dex, 136 w/ ravenfrost, grief over gloves, wiz over boots - BUGGED. Attack with wiz....

Okayyyy but why. Ugh I don't want to test more slots. Alright here we go.

Base Dex	Dex w/ Equipment	Equipment slot giving dex	Grief Equip Position	Wiz Equip Position	SWING WITH
121	139	Ring (Ravenfrost +18)	gloves	boots	Wiz (bugged)
121	146	Helmet (Crown of Thieves +25)	gloves	boots	GRIEF
121	141	Gloves (Immortal Kings +20)	gloves	boots	Wiz (bugged)
121	136	Chest (Crow Caw +15)	gloves	boots	GRIEF
121	136	Boots (Waterwalk +15)	gloves	boots	Wiz (bugged)
121	146	Amulet (Cat's Eye +25)	gloves	boots	GRIEF
121	141	Belt (Tal Rasha's +20)	gloves	boots	Wiz (bugged)
121	136	Weapon (Baranar's Star +15)	gloves	boots (baranar's star)	Baranar's star (bugged)
121	137	Charms (Various +dex)	gloves	boots	GRIEF

Sooo.. Helmet, Chest, and Amulet slot giving dex you won't be bugged if you're below 136 base dex, but with other slots you will. I have no idea. I added in the last row to include weapons at the same dex value for testing, so all slots can result in this bug except Helmet/Chest/Amulet AND Charms.

Another side note: barb looks badass in crow caw.


Edit 2: MORE TESTING. If a combination of Base Stats + Amulet/Helmet/Chest/Charms puts you over 136, you will not be bugged.

No amount of +dex on the bugged item slots will make grief be the attacker. For example, if I put on Tal Rasha's belt, Baranar's Star, Immortal kings gloves, Raven frost, and waterwalk, with base 110 dex, I will have a ludicrous 198 dexterity and STILL not be swinging with grief. However, if I then equip Crown of theives (+25) and a +1 dex small charm, I will have gained 26 dex from non-bugged items, raising my base dex (110)+ non bugged dex (26) total to 136, and my grief will now swing. My grand total dex for this setup is 110 base, + 88 from bugged slots + 26 from non-bugged slots for a total of 224 dexterity.

Effectively, those bugged slots don't contribute to your dexterity for the purposes of dual wielding, while the non-bugged slots do contribute.

Edit 3: "Okay NorthDakota, but what if you don't meet the dex requirements of either of the weapons you have equipped with base dex + non-bugged slots?" GUESS WHAT! No bug! This situation is fine. I tested with a blood moon (req 122 dex) and djinn slayer (req 95 dex) with base dex of 49 and +73 bugged dex from bugged equipment slots, and weapons function normally, you swing with whichever weapon is equipped over the gloves.

If you wanted to be bugged in this situation, you'd have to have between 95 and 121 "nonbugged dex" (base dex + dex from non-bugged slots), and then equip more dex from bugged slots over the 122 mark. In that case you'd attack only with Djinn slayer with its 95 dex requirement.

 

[Gynli]

@NorthDakota
From your tests, it seems items slots above weapons (+ armor) allow for weapons.
Head > ammy > armor > weapons1/2 > Gloves > rings1/2 > belt > Boots ?

P.S. ninja'ed by @snickersnack

EDIT: though it's good to now know that charms work before items; and I can squeeze in helmet/ammy/armor for stats prior to weapons.
Guess the +dex from RF will now have to be covered by Torch/Anni

 

[snickersnack]

@NorthDakota
From your tests, it seems items slots above weapons (+ armor) allow for weapons.
Head > ammy > armor > weapons1/2 > Gloves > rings1/2 > belt > Boots ?

P.S. ninja'ed by @snickersnack

Yep, but I then deleted that post since it also showed that I can't be bothered to read.

 

[NorthDakota]

@NorthDakota
From your tests, it seems items slots above weapons (+ armor) allow for weapons.
Head > ammy > armor > weapons1/2 > Gloves > rings1/2 > belt > Boots ?

P.S. ninja'ed by @snickersnack

The most concise explanation I can come up with is this:

Non bugged slots are Ammy/Helm/Armor/Charms/(base dex). - the combined total of dexterity granted from these is your non-bugged dex
Bugged slots are gloves/rings/boots/weapons. - these give bugged dex

You are bugged in this situation only:

1. Your total non-bugged dex is below the dex requirement of one of your weapons but not the other

 

[ffs]

Haven’t read all the details but interesting stuff.

If you are a pitzerker with Grief / Ali Baba in OH - please watch out, this might affect you.

For this Berserk example specifically it should be noted that offhand Ali Baba is not a good choice anyway. It will screw up the attack rate even if everything works as it should. Berserk attack rate is 9 FPA with PB (and 42 IAS total), but using Ali Baba will drop you to 10 FPA (unless this has somehow changed but doesn't seem like it). That's why the 6x Ist offhand needs to be made in a PB as well.

 

[MattiSPatti]

Haven’t read all the details but interesting stuff.

For this Berserk example specifically it should be noted that offhand Ali Baba is not a good choice anyway. It will screw up the attack rate even if everything works as it should. Berserk attack rate is 9 FPA with PB (and 42 IAS total), but using Ali Baba will drop you to 10 FPA (unless this has somehow changed but doesn't seem like it). That's why the 6x Ist offhand needs to be made in a PB as well.

This is what i originaly found out. I have a video where these findings are shown. and the beauty of it all is, that with the alibaba EQUIPED IN MAINHAND. and the dex bug, i attacked with grief in MAINHAND at a faster pace than with any other combo so far.

This is the video that i sent NorthDakota with my findings.