1.13 Public Test Realm online!

[LD50]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Somehow I get the feeling that a lot of people think that for D2 to be interesting, you need to be able to make the high-end RW's, or at least have a chance for it...

I remember the time when I first saw an Oculus drop. Back then it made my jaw drop and I took maybe three screenshots of it. I guess back then you could very well call me a casual gamer. I knew of the runewords, but I never thought of them as a goal to strive for. Then, as time passed and I became a bit more than a casual gamer (I'm still in no way a power-gamer) the goals changed and now it's about a few RW's and the elite uniques for me. Oculus is just another piece of something I stopped picking up long ago.

So my point is that, IMO too much increased HR drops actually take a lot away from the game for new players. You don't need the high RW's to have fun in the game, beat the game and even own the game. Instead, you need them to have something to look forward to when all else is achieved. Yes they're still not something you find all the time, but at this point I'd like to make a reference to jjscud's rune haul from one week of pitrunning.

Sigh, I don't know if I'm getting my thoughts at all out there, for me it's often hard enough even in finnish so try to maybe read between the lines a little or something?

Also, I'd like to raise a question that should all items and especially runewords be available to everyone? The really rare RW's are just too powerful to be something that you get even remotely "easily". Keep in mind that they are originally designed for a large playerbase, where they're supposed to be available at all only through the combined effort of the community. Why should it be possible to one person get them in a year or something? Of course, if you plan on playing the game only for a year it's cool, but we don't want that...

My one cent

 

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I think the reason they upped the rune drop rate is they have done something to try to stop dupes on battlenet but they still want people to be able to get the high rune words.

While I have not tried the patch yet, I think increasing the drop rate is a good thing.

I'm disappointed that apparently nothing was done about the inferno/artic blast bug though and I think the OKs should have kept iron maiden. Oh well, there are some nice things in the patch.

 

[ZeN]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

^^^ For me the point in many of those runewords is not necessarily strength, rather ability to make unusual builds ( see Beast, Chaos etc. ). Make perfect chars.

I want to outfit all my chars separately. To not move items around in GoMule. And that HoTo that I can't leave alone on my Hammerdin is bothering me. Do I want each and every sorc of mine to use Infinity? Possibly. And that is also a goal.

 

[Huriel]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Well, this patch has pulled me back in to the Diablo itch and out of lurking.

However, the computer I play Diablo on doesn't have internet access; is there any way to download the patch and transfer it over to my computer or does it have to be done in-game?

 

[Mir]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I agree with LD50 and the idea behind Solar Ice post, elite runewords should be similar to Tyrael's Might – very, very rare and hard to get. They should not be available easily for those who spend little time in D2 (not trying to offend those with families and hard work, this is my personal opinion) and in MF/rune hunting in particular.

All those who refer to LK as a 'glitch' – I don’t see any difference between LK and MF. By logic, Tyreal's Might should be dropped only by Baal and not by some skeleton boss in AT act 2. How all those Xk AT/pindel/pit runs different from Xk LK runs?

Look, maybe the increased rune drop isn't a bad thing, but the whole direction (no IM, no LM penalty, increased rune drop, reallocation of skills)…I feel they making the chars more powerful and the game less challenging.

I'm not MPing here, and I would like to hear how common all the elite RWs (faith, enigma, beast…) in the MP games today? What you think will be the effect of the new drop rate on MP games?

 

[Low Key]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

LK runs and HF rushes weren't really enjoyable in any way, it's a good thing that they'll be gone now.

This, a million times. I want spend my time playing the game. Not doing the same 25 second activity over and over and over and over... Honestly, people complaining about this change sort of have that unpleasant feeling of elitism about, like choosing to run LK several tens thousands of times makes them better than those of us who didn't.

Anyways, I think that the most exiting part about this change is the increased availability of runewords that nobody in their right mind would have done before this patch. We'll be seeing a lot more of Brambles, Dooms, Eternities, Famines, Hands of Justice, Brands, Destructions, Dragons, Dreams, Ices, Phoenixes, Prides and Wraths. Hell, even this scenario is remotely possible.

Oh, one more thing came to my mind. I'm going to guess that the local PvP scene will have a little surge of popularity now that the Enigma-club isn't an exclusive and scary thing. Good for those people! Economy is going to be pretty wierd for a while, though.

How all those Xk AT/pindel/pit runs different from Xk LK runs?

AT/Pindle/Pit don't have buggy drop rates that ensure a much, much more shallower pool of drops. While LK is definitely a legit thing to run, it is still a glitch. And due to static maps, one that only really is viable in SP.

 

[Corrupted]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

While I agree that the game-changing runewords like Infinity and Enigma shouldn't be as common as they are/going to be I'm pretty sure the amount of such runewords self-found would be in the neighbourhood of 5-10 on this forum had LK not been discovered. I think they change is welcome since everyone abuses LK any way.

 

[Mir]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

This, a million times. I want spend my time playing the game. Not doing the same 25 second activity over and over and over and over... Honestly, people complaining about this change sort of have that unpleasant feeling of elitism about, like choosing to run LK several tens thousands of times makes them better than those of us who didn't.

...

AT/Pindle/Pit don't have buggy drop rates that ensure a much, much more shallower pool of drops. While LK is definitely a legit thing to run, it is still a glitch. And due to static maps, one that only really is viable in SP.

1. No, not "better" but they deserve those RWs more then someone who's not putting the same effort.

2. Not only LK viable because of static maps but also AT/pit/…

 

[Stryfe]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

@mir:

1. Why do they deserve it more? Cause they were crazy enough to run an area several tens of thousands of times? Is someone who has spent millions of [insert currency] on slot machines more deserving than someone who used it the first time?

All this talk about deserving this and that reeks of elitism to me and I dispise elitism. You're not better than other because you did XXX which the other peson never did.
(and I'm not meaning you here Mir, I meant it in a general way, no offence to you. )

2. But then AT/Pit and all those aren't run because of a truncated seed which LK is. LK would never be run if not for that bug/glitch/call it what you like and if they fix it then LK won't be run anymore. AT/Pit and all those are not dependant on that bug/glitch/whatever.

To be honest though I find the whole discussion a bit silly. Those that like it will run it and those that don't can just stay in 1.12.

 

[Low Key]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

2. Not only LK viable because of static maps but also AT/pit/…

Pit is perfectly runnable on Battle.net, as are WSK and River of Flame, making 85 areas perfectly valid there. And only thing AT offers over them is easier runs, the drop rates are still the same.

 

[maxicek]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

My feelings on 1.13b are a bit mixed.

From a personal level, in time it will de-value the insane luck I had when I found a Zod. Although I don't view it as an achievement really - with the amount of runs I have done, it really only amounts to luck. My non HF / chest rune drops to date go Gul, Ohm Zod - not exactly what you call a normal distribution.

But from a forum point of view, maybe it will be a good thing. Getting people away from HF rushes and chest popping and back to killing stuff should be a good thing. Maybe the forums increased rune wealth will inject more enthusiasm into other challenges, like PvP.

I also think that the people who make many niche builds and don't do tons of runs, or those who only do single pass untwinked like jiansonz "deserve" to play with higher runewords more than someone who has made two sorceresses and spent the rest of their time popping chests. Both people may have spent a similar time in game.

I hope that we will see some interesting builds with some of the lesser used higher end runewords. Currently in SP anything other than Enigma / CoH / Infinity / Beast is almost seen as a waste.

 

[Mir]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

@mir:

1. Why do they deserve it more? Cause they were crazy enough to run an area several tens of thousands of times? Is someone who has spent millions of [insert currency] on slot machines more deserving than someone who used it the first time?

All this talk about deserving this and that reeks of elitism to me and I dispise elitism. You're not better than other because you did XXX which the other peson never did.
(and I'm not meaning you here Mir, I meant it in a general way, no offence to you. )

...

To be honest though I find the whole discussion a bit silly. Those that like it will run it and those that don't can just stay in 1.12.

1. Yes they are. But not because they crazy but because they killed more monsters, thus having better chances to get the item

2. I agree, in the end most of us will upgrade (IMO) but what will happen if they reduce the drops? Were it puts all those who upgraded to 1.13b? I know it's very unlikely and it's for the mods to decide but it's an interesting question

 

[Stryfe]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

1. I was referring to LK here (and to a lesser extent HF rushing) which doesn't involve killing monsters. It involves opening chests which are bugged.
Had they run AT/Pits or any of the other areas I wouldn't have said anything as they then did what was the purpose of the game. Killing monsters.

2. Not really to be honest. It's the same as with 1.07 ethereal items or charms, 1.09 raven claws, 1.10 beta runewords. The best among those would probably be 1.10 runewords.
I can't see a big difference between that and 1.13 beta really except that runes are more universal than a beta CTA for example.

 

[Lord_Vega]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

a little question here, before I disappear into the shadows again never to be heard from in months.... would anyone be kind enough to le me know in a PM of a way of obtaining the new 1.13b patch offline, as I did with the original 1.13 files through the version switcher?

perhaps this old man will actually put together his 2nd eniga and grief after all these years after all =)

 

[Low Key]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

2. I agree, in the end most of us will upgrade (IMO) but what will happen if they reduce the drops? Were it puts all those who upgraded to 1.13b? I know it's very unlikely and it's for the mods to decide but it's an interesting question

The forum rules are pretty clear-cut on this. If you upgrade a character to a new version, you are not allowed to transport it or it's items to any of the older versions.

Running older versions with characters created in that version (or older ones) is fine, as usual. In the case of them dropping drop values, I've got the feeling several posters will keep a 1.13b installation and character for aquiring runes. Setting up an LK runner is really, really easy too, so nothing prevents people from going back to 1.12 and LK there.

 

[LD50]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

While I understand why this "deserving" thing has come up, I don't think it's really fair to apply "deserving" to a game, especially one like D2. It's about probabilities, and you can't deserve those. Just like Stryfe said.

 

[parsetdx]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I thought I'd throw this in as well, but feel free to tell me if I'm wrong:

I'm not even in Hell yet, and again I'm a casual player - I have yet to even come close to finding a suitable 4 or 6 socket item to accept these high powered runewords. High runes does not make a runeword item alone - you also need to work to find the perfect item for it. That also contributes to the time and contributes to the rarity of the runewords, even with an increased rune drop rate. I don't see 6 socket ethereal 200% ED Colossus Swords dropping everywhere. But maybe this is incorrect and once I get to Hell this will be a moot point.

 

[Belthazor]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I don't see why anyone is more "deserving" of HRs because they put the same amount of time into running LK as someone who runs other areas and actually kills stuff.

Think about it this way: In 1.12a and earlier, the only way to, more or less, reliably obtain HRs is by spending a lot of hours on running LK or doing HF rushes. Anything else comes down to luck and can hardly be considered an accomplishment. Would anyone still complain about the increased rune drops if those two methods weren't available? Also, as I mentioned earlier: Why does anyone "deserve" more HRs for spending 30 hours on LK runs (3700 runs, 30 secs/run) than someone who spends 30 hours on cow runs and actually kills monsters?

 

[smips]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I think part of the issue behind whether people like the new drop rates comes down to what type of player they are. If they're a hardcore power gamer that is willing to invest the insane hours at LK, then I'm sure they feel they deserve to be part of the 'elite' sector of D2 players. Now that the rates are so much better, a casual player can actually find something like a Jah or Ber while questing, which doesn't seem fair to them any more. If you're a power gamer and are upset by the increased drop rates then add runewords to your grail project. I promise that won't be something you can do in a week.

 

[Solar Ice]

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

This may be the unpopular opinion, but here we go:

0.) Without putting much effort in? You need to revisit probability and statistics to learn that just because odds are reduced, doesn't mean they are easy. Related to this, finding most of the high runes still represents a significant accomplishment. Not only is it still quite difficult for some high runes to drop, but did you ever consider the accomplishment required just to get a character to the point of being in the area required to get that drop? I'm not talking about BS rushing - but the time involved with truly playing a character through - maybe the time spent should warrant a nice reward such as a high rune drop in fewer than X million kills. What's wrong with that?

1.) LK chest runs are based on exploiting a discovered "glitch" in the game. Take it for what it is - glitch doesn't necessarily mean bad - but it's a glitch nonetheless. We are all impressed at the perseverance that has gone into creating the rune word items that have been created thus far, even under the glitched scenario - but that doesn't make it bad that other people want to join in the FUN without going to such lengths.

2.) Related - games should be FUN. Running the same thing for 65,000 runs and still not finding the rune you want = not fun. It becomes work. I don't care who you are. I game because game = FUN != WORK. Yes, when you find it, you feel great and that you have accomplished something nobody else has. But was it REALLY fun? And back to my point, was it really rewarding knowing it was based on exploiting point #1 (a glitch)?

3.) Not everybody has X hours / day to spend on D2. See point #2 - this is supposed to be fun - spending X hours / day and never achieving your goals is not fun.

4.) The odds have not changed to make a ZOD drop every 2 kills. It will still be rare - just not as rare. What's wrong with that? Creating a Zod based runeword will still be a respectable accomplishment - it just won't take 1+ years to accomplish.

5.) On the contrary - if we took a poll of the forum - I'd bet you money that the interest in the game has actually INCREASED due to the patch and due to the prospects of potentially achieving a new goal. Refer to point #4 - this goal is still not EASY to attain - so it's still a challenge, just not quite as astronomical of odds - so I would say you will actually get increased interest from the casual D2 gamer. Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that why the developers still patch the game a decade after release - to continue to drive interest?

6.) Many players continue to play D2 to obtain the grail and furthermore to try out a whole bunch of different char builds - in fact, that was one of the original selling points of D2. Additional rune drops do not change this - people will continue to play D2 to achieve various personal goals. Just because your personal goals are driven by runes, does not diminish the multiple goals of different players in our community.

7.) The community here is intelligent. People understand that increased rune drop odds make BoTD a little less special. I will guarantee that everybody understands that and that you won't find many people gloating over their created runeword items. You'll likely see a return to grailing, set completion, and truly special charm rolls, etc. pop back up in more frequency in the IFT than runeword creation. So what?

My 0.02.

0. Then we have a different definition of “putting in the effort” – and that’s cool. As for considering the effort to get a char to a certain point, I have 108 Patriarchs/Matriarchs (all 1.10+ SP) and 15 Guardians, so I think that I know a bit about getting a char through the game. For me the time spent playing a char through the game is rewarding by itself and there was always the Hellforge drops in NM and Hell to look forward to. It was very exciting to cross your fingers for good drop, hoping to see a Mal, Ist or Gul on the ground after you crack the forge. Stuff like that won’t really mean much now in this patch.

1&2. For me, it was fun to do a few thousand Pindle runs for instance, with one or two good drops making up for the time spent and disappointing drops. I like running LK, Cows, Baal , AT, Pindle. I like the whole process of MF. BUT this is obviously not for everyone, which is one reason why many people like these rune drop changes. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that and one should definitely play the game according to what gives them the most fun.
Unfortunately, LK can almost certainly be viewed as a bug. I don’t want to get into a discussion about exploiting bugs. Everyone has their view. I don’t exploit bugs except for LK and Andariel (the latter I regret). Not running LK because of this is totally understandable to me.

3&4. Just to quote my reply to LongingForDeath in my previous post.

Of course, the truth is that not everyone has the time to put in that kind of effort. The chance to explore the runewords without wanting to put in tons of time that you don't have, make this a great patch for those people. I was only referring to myself in my previous post.

6. Please see the last paragraph of my reply to colony in that same post. Also, my goals are not driven by runes, though they have played a significant part. I have Grail minus 1 for instance, all those Pats/Mats, Guardians, charm rerolling, Baaling my Sorc to level 99 (~2,5K runs short currently). Since runes/runewords were so rare/powerful they were a target worth going for and spending loads of time on finding. Which I succeeded in and enjoyed doing.

And I’ll quote myself again:

I am certainly not imposing my view on this patch on anyone. Everyone has different opinions, goals and ways of playing and enjoying this game. I respect that.