1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

i too enjoy putting weeks into getting a single item. its a challenge worth working for! this is gaming, folks! running cows over and over and over is what one would call "gaming nirvana". only the best of the best have the stamina and endurance for this amazing feat

Yep, I agree with this, but I'm in the minority. For me, personally, I'd prefer 1.13a to have been the final release, but I think overall for D2 it's a good thing, as the majority of players don't have the same mindset as me, and of course companies should always cater to the majority - it's just good business.

I prefer the runes to be rare, I don't think the game was initially designed for players to acquire lots of high runewords, except with tremendous amounts of time (years of intensive playing). That being said, instead of having one or two high-runeword goals, players can now shoot for things such as dual Dream and Last Wish after the standard Infinity/Enigma etc. which everyone will now have access to with some playing.

Also, I'm again in the minority here, but I always enjoyed running the chests, back in the day with Marvel in sewers 2, and then even better LK when that was discovered. So nice and so chill to run that place :D

Which is why it's nice to have the rune rates like they are in 1.13b. You guys make it seem like they're dropped every other cow run...

No, but every 50-100th cow run, depending on your definition of a high rune.



 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Ah, I see. Then it got removed quite recently, I guess? I'm sure I saw it sometime last month. Anyway, thanks again!

Yeah, was a couple weeks ago iirc.

OnT:
I agree that higher rune drop rates are a good thing for the majority of players. I'm not really concerned either way, but I'm certainly not going to complain about having a legitimate shot at Infinity, Grief, etc without having to resort to LK runs or HF rushing. I really, really enjoy MFing in areas, and this will make it that much sweeter.

Now, I'm considering starting an untwinked character in the beta, but I might just wait for 1.13 to go final. I've got a few idea rolling around my noggin, namely:

Meteorb: My untwinked, starting MF standby that has never steered me wrong.

Blizzballer: My second favorite sorceress (behind Blova). I've never played one untwinked, but I'm fundamentally strong, and don't think it would be too much of an issue. She's also a quicker area MFer, imho.

Fishymancer: Easy, peasy. I can get to hell no problem and run areas with decent speed. I'm probably leaning here the most, simply because I want to run areas more than I run bosses. I'm really thinking Diablo will be a great Fishymancer target without IM.

Trapsin: My dark horse. CoS makes area running very easy, and LS+DS makes the pits quick. Couple in FB for the archers, and it's full of win. I've taken one untwinked through 1.12a, so I've got some experience with this build.


 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Trapsin: My dark horse. CoS makes area running very easy, and LS+DS makes the pits quick. Couple in FB for the archers, and it's full of win. I've taken one untwinked through 1.12a, so I've got some experience with this build.

CoS is still causing errors, and not just on The Ancients, there are some areas where I can be certain to crash the game by casting CoS.



 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I am certainly not imposing my view on this patch on anyone. Everyone has different opinions, goals and ways of playing and enjoying this game. I respect that. :)

@Smips:

I'm not saying that rune drops should not be increased but stuff like 2 Vexes in two hours (another forum) is, to me, too easy. Yes, you are correct that Pre-1.13b rune drops were near impossible to find. But then you can look at guys like Marvel and DC, JJscud and Grogs who showed what dedication can achieve. In my view, if one wants the best of the best then one has to put in the hours. For me, getting something that took effort is infinitely better than easily getting that same thing.

@ LongingForDeath

Of course, the truth is that not everyone has the time to put in that kind of effort. The chance to explore the runewords without wanting to put in tons of time that you don't have, make this a great patch for those people. I was only referring to myself in my previous post.


@ colony:

When Pyrohemia posted the Drop odds from a Zod capable monster (post #572) I was amazed. A 1 in 5171 average chance of Zod in 1.13b from lets say a Hell Bovine compared to 1 in 82722 chance in 1.10. How many Bovines are in the Cow level and how long does one run take? Surely with some effort a Last Wish is very likely. A 1 in 1320.9 chance for a Jah? That is close to a chance for an Ist from the Countess in 1.12. Is it reasonable with some effort and luck to get an Ist (along with some other decent rune drops) from the 1.12 countess in lets say 3-4 days or less? How about a Jah (and some other decent rune drops) from the Cows in 1.13b?
I also read a topic earlier on another forum about someone finding 2 Vexes in ~ 2 hours in this patch.

Just want to say that I did not try this patch yet so if I am reading Pyrohemia's table wrong, or have the wrong impression that high-end runes became quite common then forget the Last Wish/BotD being posted regularly comment. This is a large and very active community so if my impression of this patch is correct, then Last Wish can become a (semi)regular event.

I never said that the only Uber stuff were RW and Uniques. But most of the game's item-finding revolves around those two things (Grail and powerful runewords that can’t be compared with other equipment.) Sure, one can set different goals as well or instead of making RW/ finding Sets and Uniques. Like I said, everyone is different.
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

When Pyrohemia posted the Drop odds from a Zod capable monster (post #572) I was amazed. A 1 in 5171 average chance of Zod in 1.13b from lets say a Hell Bovine compared to 1 in 82722 chance in 1.10.

The odds are 1:5171 that a rune will be a Zod (if dropped from a Zod capable monster, such as a Hell Bovine in your example), if and only if the game rolls a rune to drop. So, it's the odds of a rune drop being a Zod, not of a monster dropping a Zod.

I think Pyrohemia cleared this up later in the thread. So, you've still got to roll a rune (not sure on the odds for a Hell Bovine), then it's 1:5171. So, it ends up being (odds of rune dropping -- depends on monster) * (1/5171). They aren't going to be dropping every 10 runs or something crazy.


 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I don't like this rune drop change at all.

It now becomes very easy to get the high-end stuff without putting much effort in. Finding high-end runes is no longer something to be exited about.Granted, this was mostly the case since 2006 when LK was discovered but it still took quite some effort to get multiple high runes. Making an Enigma, BodT now becomes not an accomplishment but a matter of a couple of weeks running Cows. Those like me, who put in tons of effort into farming Enigma, Dual Dreams, Infinity etc (~ 55K LK and 1K Cows, in my case specifically runehunting-wise) I think will likely be quite upset with this patch.

I expect people to post BodT, Last Wish, etc in the IFT on a regular basis now. And the worst thing is, there is now no going back. Even if they were to change the drop rates back, one could still install 1.13b Beta, get the runes and bring them foward. Sad for D2, imo.

One of the problems with mods like Median and Eastern Sun is that once you have Uber items (rather easily), the desire to keep playing diminishes. I have played both mods quite a bit and eventually they become sort of pointless after a while. Vanilla/RWM is (was) different. The low drop rates mean that there is a long term goal and loads of effort to reach it and one of things that, for me at least, keeps the desire to stick with this game for so long. I wonder if people will become bored with D2 far more quickly, once they get all the Uber stuff?

Now all Bzzard has to do to "improve" the game is reduce the XP cap so that level 99 can be reached in two days and while they are at it greatly reduce the drop rates of TC 87s so that Tyraels can drop as soon as you step out of the Blood Moor. Who needs challenges, right? :/

This may be the unpopular opinion, but here we go:

0.) Without putting much effort in? You need to revisit probability and statistics to learn that just because odds are reduced, doesn't mean they are easy. Related to this, finding most of the high runes still represents a significant accomplishment. Not only is it still quite difficult for some high runes to drop, but did you ever consider the accomplishment required just to get a character to the point of being in the area required to get that drop? I'm not talking about BS rushing - but the time involved with truly playing a character through - maybe the time spent should warrant a nice reward such as a high rune drop in fewer than X million kills. What's wrong with that?

1.) LK chest runs are based on exploiting a discovered "glitch" in the game. Take it for what it is - glitch doesn't necessarily mean bad - but it's a glitch nonetheless. We are all impressed at the perseverance that has gone into creating the rune word items that have been created thus far, even under the glitched scenario - but that doesn't make it bad that other people want to join in the FUN without going to such lengths.

2.) Related - games should be FUN. Running the same thing for 65,000 runs and still not finding the rune you want = not fun. It becomes work. I don't care who you are. I game because game = FUN != WORK. Yes, when you find it, you feel great and that you have accomplished something nobody else has. But was it REALLY fun? And back to my point, was it really rewarding knowing it was based on exploiting point #1 (a glitch)?

3.) Not everybody has X hours / day to spend on D2. See point #2 - this is supposed to be fun - spending X hours / day and never achieving your goals is not fun.

4.) The odds have not changed to make a ZOD drop every 2 kills. It will still be rare - just not as rare. What's wrong with that? Creating a Zod based runeword will still be a respectable accomplishment - it just won't take 1+ years to accomplish.

5.) On the contrary - if we took a poll of the forum - I'd bet you money that the interest in the game has actually INCREASED due to the patch and due to the prospects of potentially achieving a new goal. Refer to point #4 - this goal is still not EASY to attain - so it's still a challenge, just not quite as astronomical of odds - so I would say you will actually get increased interest from the casual D2 gamer. Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that why the developers still patch the game a decade after release - to continue to drive interest?

6.) Many players continue to play D2 to obtain the grail and furthermore to try out a whole bunch of different char builds - in fact, that was one of the original selling points of D2. Additional rune drops do not change this - people will continue to play D2 to achieve various personal goals. Just because your personal goals are driven by runes, does not diminish the multiple goals of different players in our community.

7.) The community here is intelligent. People understand that increased rune drop odds make BoTD a little less special. I will guarantee that everybody understands that and that you won't find many people gloating over their created runeword items. You'll likely see a return to grailing, set completion, and truly special charm rolls, etc. pop back up in more frequency in the IFT than runeword creation. So what?

My 0.02.


 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

There are more than a handful of high end runewords that no one in the SPF would EVER make, even if we had the runes. For some examples, look at: Doom, Eternity, Hand of Justice, and Last Wish. Sure, there's nothing wrong with these runewords and they are all endgame worthy, but since the materials are so scarce in SP the cost is not worth the result.

I think either Doom or Hand of Justice (possibly both) have already been made by people from this forum. Just saying. Plus, we have Nagisa making Ice, which is probably crazier than making either of those since he doesn't have an Enigma. :tongue:

Nothing really to add, I just wanted to poke fun at Nagisa.

Well, maybe I'll add something. I completely agree with jjscud's assertion that these adjusted rune drop numbers are probably about right for legitimate b.net players. They have resets, etc. to deal with and this gives them a chance to be on equal footing with the dupers without partaking of the dupes, if they put in the effort. That wasn't realistic at all previously.

I definitely feel it borks the single player economy, at least over time, but we've been borking our own economy for years so I can't feel bad about that. Definitely lessens the charm for power gamers, but how many power gamers are coming to D2 now? And how many of the ones who have been around aren't already in possession of pretty much every runeword they'd be getting anyway? By virtue of general philosophy I'm strongly opposed to lessening the challenge in games (or endeavors in general, for the most part) to cater to "the casual xxxx," but in this case I don't really care. If they reset ladders regularly it'll probably be an improvement there, and, frankly, it'd be stupid of Blizzard to cater to SP over catering to the ladder players.

That said, I won't be upgrading to this patch, either. The improved rune drops mildly irritate me (buyers remorse on all those Council/AT/Cow runs) but other things bug me more. Kinda cool that across multiple games Blizzard works to keep my desire to play D2 nice and low.


 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I'm not sure if this was there in 1.13a or not but I didn't notice this before:

"- Fixed two issues where players could stack auras in an unintended way. "

Does that mean that aura stacking with items (ex 'Dragon' with 'Hand of Justice') doesn't work any more?

CB
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I'm not sure if this was there in 1.13a or not but I didn't notice this before:

"- Fixed two issues where players could stack auras in an unintended way. "

Does that mean that aura stacking with items (ex 'Dragon' with 'Hand of Justice') doesn't work any more?

CB

It should still work. This refers to some Battle.net bug that people abused... but I don't have dual dreams to test so I can't say for sure.



 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I am certainly not imposing my view on this patch on anyone. Everyone has different opinions, goals and ways of playing and enjoying this game. I respect that. :)

@Smips:

I'm not saying that rune drops should not be increased but stuff like 2 Vexes in two hours (another forum) is, to me, too easy. Yes, you are correct that Pre-1.13b rune drops were near impossible to find. But then you can look at guys like Marvel and DC, JJscud and Grogs who showed what dedication can achieve. In my view, if one wants the best of the best then one has to put in the hours. For me, getting something that took effort is infinitely better than easily getting that same thing.

I agree with you that what those you have mentioned have managed to achieve is very impressive. However, it really does take a rare person to be able to put that kind of effort into something like Diablo 2. I'm sure that in most circumstances you WILL need to put in quite a large number of hours to still get these runes. I mean, an LK run with 6 chest has what, a 1/11000 chance of netting a Ber? After looking at the odds of a Hell Bovine dropping a Ber on /p5 in 1.12a and multiplying it by 16(that would be about correct, right?), you're looking at 1 Ber per ~405 runs if there are about 450 cows per run. Now, assuming my math is correct(and I wouldn't be so sure, I only used the Windows calc), you would need to do cow runs at ~9 minutes a piece for it to take the same number of hours(assuming ~20 second LK runs). I think it worked out to be 60 some hours of LK running or something like that. So I think it's safe to say that 9 minutes is double what a cow run might take(I've never timed mine). That's still 30+ hours of running. Hopefully I didn't make an error and look like a total ***.

I think either Doom or Hand of Justice (possibly both) have already been made by people from this forum. Just saying. Plus, we have Nagisa making Ice, which is probably crazier than making either of those since he doesn't have an Enigma. :tongue:

I supposed what I meant to say is nearly everyone at this forum wouldn't make them :crazyeyes:


 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

It all comes down to personal preference in my opinion. The rune drop increase is a welcome addition to my taste as there is more hope that hr's will drop in less amount of time but still be rare enough for it to be an accomplishment to me. I can certainly understand why this isn't the case with everyone. In my opinion the rdr in previous patches was pretty ridiculous to begin with. Even now it isn't like you will be finding Zod's, Cham's, Jah's left and right. Sure the odds are better than they were but they still are not great.
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Well.... I am not some "noob"... I've been around this forum for years and play the Diablo forever. Ever since the first one... I have a family, so I don't get to play as much as I wanted to, and all that time was dedicated to finding that Ber ( runiing LK and Cows and nothing !!!! else ), making Infinity and owning Baal and such for some time. At that point - I would probably quit again.

Now - I can totally see myself playing to get Ice, which I always wanted. And Beast. And Enigma for my irritatingly slow Necro.

So there. It makes this game playable again. Actually playable and not just running.

Since the upgrade I had a Ber and Ohm in the very beginning. And nothing since then in the last 100 runs or so. Highest - Amn. Do I regret that the runes are less of an accomplishment now? Perhaps. I didn't even feel anything when Ber dropped. It was sorta "expected" ( totally wrong, BTW ). But after some pondering - well... I think I'm gonna enjoy this.

EDIT: by not a "noob" I mean only that I've dedicated 1000s of hours into item/rune hunting. Otherwise... durf.
 
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Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I just finished running Hell Countess 50 times and saw no El Rune. Instead i got about 6 Hel Runes and mainly Amn/Shael. At least it seems the lower runes won't drop so frequently.

It makes total sense for Hel runes to become common, they're very useful for the unsocket recipe. There was no point on being so rare for such a recipe.
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Ok, a second Jah has dropped for me while running WSK/Baal for items. I'm starting to change my mind about this new patch.
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Honestly I can't see why everyone is so upset about the new patch and the new droprates. If it bothers you so much then don't upgrade. You can keep playing 1.12 as long as you want really. I'm sure a lot of people will stay 1.12 or atleast keep a time traveler in that version.

For myself I like it. As many others I have a family and not that much time to play anymore and this makes all those juicy runewords come within my grasp (well, I was lucky last time around and made an Infinity in record time but that can't be counted since it's not the regular deal).

Also, if we look at the amount of high runewords here since the last years I think we can count the number of BotDs on one hand. The number of Infinities, Enigmas and other high runewords are also quite scarce. It seems wierd to me to include items in the game that you'll have to be extremly lucky to make or place an abnormal amount of dedicated running (and/or abusing of glitches) to make.

And the reason why there are so many duped runes on b.net? The exact same reason. Since they are so rare. I'm predicting that the duping will lessen somewhat with higher droprates (they'll never go away but there's less meaning in doing it now and risking a ban or lost items).

I'm all for 1.13 to be honest.
I also think that the new high runewords will be the rare uniques or crafts (so to speak).
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I just finished running Hell Countess 50 times and saw no El Rune. Instead i got about 6 Hel Runes and mainly Amn/Shael. At least it seems the lower runes won't drop so frequently.

It makes total sense for Hel runes to become common, they're very useful for the unsocket recipe. There was no point on being so rare for such a recipe.

It also makes sense that the Rals and Orts drop more frequently because they are used for the repair recipes. Rals are a form of currency on the SPTF and are in high demand.


 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Despite my earlier post/rant in this thread (call it what you will), I would just like to acknowledge parsetdx for a very well thought out and intelligent argument, I read the whole thing and I believe you have made a very good point in general.

Whilst I will still choose to keep my stashes and characters seperate from each version it is a good thing for the newer players of the game and I know that I will be able to achieve some things I've wanted to do, and I will be able to lure a few other people into playing now, and more people is always better.

I choose not to play on battle.net so that doesn't effect me and whilst it does feel like my efforts in previous versions to find runes and create high end runewords now seem a little bit less of an accomplishment I still respect that runes and other items will remain rare, just not as impossible rare as they used to be. As I stated earlier in 4 years + playing solidly I am still yet to find a rune higher than Vex without resorting to 'Glitches' (LK).

I guess my main fear is that because runes will obviously become a more common thing and be posted more often in the various 'Item Find Threads' that it will become somewhat easier for those who wish to play the game illegitimately to get away with their actions.
 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I've HF rushed several Bers over the last few years, and I can happily say that I really like the increased rune drops. LK runs and HF rushes weren't really enjoyable in any way, it's a good thing that they'll be gone now. You simply shouldn't have to put up with odds approaching winning lottery jackpots in a game that's meant to be fun, why does it matter now that it's easier to get high runes? You still know you did it when it took so much longer, you haven't lost anything from the change.
Almost exactly my thoughts.

...Just except that I never got even nearly as much into HF rushing. I do have a 1.09d sorc capable of efficient HF rushing, but the rushing just feels so appallingly boring and numbing for me that all I rushed for was a few Vex runes in past. I wasn't able to force myself back into HF rushing since.

And now I'm glad if there won't even be a need to do mind numbing hours of HF rushing, or tens of thousands of special chest pops (I haven't done LK'ing much at all either), only in order to have realistic hope in finding high runes in a somewhat reasonable period of time. It's nice to hear that good old monster killing is enough for that.

Personally, I like to have a more realistic chance on finding the higher runes and making the runewords I want. And there are quite a few runewords I want, not to mention other items such as uber charms, etc. It's not as if having ten times better chance at finding high runes would make me run out of things to do in D2, on the contrary, D2 will be more interesting again.

And as others have stated, it's not like Zods will be dropping left and right; Zod will still be a very rare rune.

All that being said, I'm still waiting for the 1.13 final, although I'm already starting to consider on considering to move on to the 1.13 beta 2.



 
Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

I guess my main fear is that because runes will obviously become a more common thing and be posted more often in the various 'Item Find Threads' that it will become somewhat easier for those who wish to play the game illegitimately to get away with their actions.
This was already the case with LK runs and HF rushes. It doesn't make any difference.

I don't see the accomplishment in popping the same 6 chests 30000 times (like I don't see the accomplishment in beating yourself with a stick 30000 times), and I don't see why it should be rewarded with HRs.

On the other hand, I've patted and matted so many characters that I've lost count and never found a HR through regular play and only one by MFing.

From an SP perspective HR drop rates were retarded.



 
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Re: 1.13 Public Test Realm online!

Speaking as a total newbie here (I started playing in August) for newer players it isn't even necessarily an issue of high runes -- I'm sitting and debating what I want to use my second Lem on because, hey, Lems are rare and I don't want to waste it. :)

I do now have a character who's capable of running the Countess -- haven't found anything impressive that way yet. But it's not very appealing to spend the lions' share of my limited gaming time on runs when there's still four whole classes out there I haven't even tried yet! Starting a hunter/summoner/fire druid sounds like a lot more fun than teleporting to the bottom of that tower over and over and over...

It does seem a little odd to me to have such a large class of items which are nearly impossible to obtain by playing the game as presumably intended (questing through with characters killing monsters and things), and in fact are extremely difficult to obtain even by engaging in practices that are arguably exploits (not saying I disapprove, just that they're arguably exploits).

That's a newbie's opinion, so take it for what it's worth. It's certainly understandable that people who have invested lots of time in getting what HRs they have are annoyed at seeing HR becoming more common (thus arguably devaluing their work). But I suspect that part of the motivation behind 1.13 is bringing new or returning players into the fold before D3 comes out, and there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. You don't make a profitable game by aiming it primarily hard-core -- that market just isn't big enough.

Take with the requisite salt. :)
 
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