Just as the dead tell no tales, there is no mandate that the dead follow the game or dead thread. Those that got offed early had the choice not to pay further attention to the game. Based upon a cursory review of this games dead thread--I have no interest in spending any time on dead threads in the future.
Mafia - Borderlands!
- Thread starter Caluin Graye
- Start date
Just as the dead tell no tales, there is no mandate that the dead follow the game or dead thread. Those that got offed early had the choice not to pay further attention to the game. Based upon a cursory review of this games dead thread--I have no interest in spending any time on dead threads in the future.
Timeline of events:
1) Scott votes D2.
2) coju votes D2.
3) coju unvotes D2 and votes Scott.
4) ironarrow and mrewak systematically like every post with a vote against D2, ignoring other posts.
5) Cal gets mad, calls the game.
Whether or not you or coju were influenced is beside the point. It doesn't matter if the influencing gambit worked or not. The intent was there and the action happened.
How would you have felt if a dead player posted in a different thread and said "I think town is making a mistake in the current mafia game." Not technically against the rules, but is definitely capable of influencing still living players. You may never click on that thread, but as the game moderator, how am I to know for certain?
Because you will be alive?
The dead thread is just a place to chill and react together. There is usually no spoilers, so you root for your team and just hang out.
I think CG did what he had to do. Excellent fast decision, while a bummer for everyone, it had to be done.
The bold part is the part that's important. Intent is just as important as results. The racer who juices on steroids and loses is still cheating.
Neither Coju or I was "juicing". Basically we lost because someone wearing the same color jersey spiked our drink with hgh.
Also, were all the the "likes" done at the same time? Was there any way to admonish the cheaters to prevent them from doing any further damage as opposed to punishing us for the sins of our "teammates".
I'll also chime in here. Each mod has their own style and may handle situations differently. While I support CG's decision to call the game, and I am not happy with aquiring the win like that. I will add the following: At one point in the game, all of the living players, including you Scott, were considering doing a "mod kill" on purpose as a suicide in order to hopefully gain some more information. That's another situation of the intent being there regardless of if it worked or not (more to the point, regardless of if it was done or not). I would have called the game there in a won for the other side as well, since it was A) suggested by a town player (Ewak) and B) Considered and agreed to with how and what to do by another town (Scott). So in effect Scott, while you aren't guilty of what Ewak and Arrow did which caused the game to be called by CG, you are guilty yourself. Maybe not breakign the rules (since there's no rule on intentional modklling of oneself), but you ARE guilty of trying to gain an unfair advantage in game which is against the spiirit of mafia and poor gamesmanship.
Lastly, we're not forcing you or anyone to follow the game or participate in the dead thread after death. This game was unfortunately a quite different from previous games. However, it's your loss if you choose not to as there is information in the dead threads said by other players that touches on your game play and reading it might help you improve as threads like that are also a good place to ask questions and get helpful feedback, something of which you do need.
Lastly, I'll touch on the interaction between myself and Scott.
Scott, as I pointed out in game, you have never seen a mafia game get seriously heated. This was your first, and I singled you out while I was still town for that very reason. There will be times where a player or some players get a scum read on you and think you are scum, and nothing you say will change their mind.
My initial "shoot" on you in post #13 was typical early random vote in a mafia game. You should know by now that votes are never set in stone. they can be changed at any time. My attempt to end you as you put it, wasn't an attempt to end you at all. It was an attempt to get a reaction out of you. I could have shot anyone.
Also one more flaw you have...you have said at times that you don't want to vote for anyone in a mafia game because you have no evidence or cause to. This is bad. By not voting you are helping scum gt a free pass to the night phase, where they will likely kill one town unless something stops them. What you should do is one of two things, find someone, anyone and look for a reason to vote them. Even a small reason. Did they do something that seems scumm behavior like (maybe blindly voting someone once there were a few votes already? We call this following the wagon or sheeping), were they just fluff posting more than the rothers ans seeming to try and stay under the weather? Are they pushing a lynch on someone for no real reason? Did they lie about something? Even the smallest lie is a reason to vote.
If you can't come up with someone to vote then consider joining the wagon on someone else. Careful here. If you hammer (lock the lynch) and the person flips town, you will likely be on the hot seat the next day if you are alive. Maybe vote someone and ask that person who they think is a better lynch candidate than them? I did this to you remember? There's a reason for that too,
Lastly, know that the longer town players are alive in a mafia game is because the scum players see them as less of a threat.
I was recruited into scum and pretty much set the priority list of who to NK every night. People I suspected of being power roles were at the top. Those were Noammr (first) Coju (second, did not work as the preceeding day went different), Franklin next then the rest. How things went after I was dead was up to the living players.
You were towards the bottom of that list because you were not much of a threat, In future games if you ask questions, and your play improved...you might get killed night 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Gunnar_Liljenwall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aad_van_den_Hoek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dong_Fangxiao
Yes.
No.
What would you have done differently? I'm honestly curious - if there was a better option, I'd like to know it for the future.
All due respect, but all of the above is subjective. In my opinion, throwing a dart at a board and antagonizing someone for some perceived "scumminess" isn't indicative of good gameplay. Further, you say that its bad to jump on the bandwagon but its also bad to abstain from voting--seems like a lose-lose proposition. I tried to make an alliance with Coju. He had tracking power. Had he trusted me (and I should have because the reason he was not a target is because I went public with my assassination attempt on him) we could have narrowed the field faster and won the game. He kept going back and forth, not convinced that I wasn't mafia. If I was mafia, what would my incentive to keep him alive be? In sum, while I appreciate the pro tips, I'll stick with my instincts.
As an aside, I'd like some explanation on the recruitment that you went through. From outward appearances, it would seem that you would have advantage by playing on both sides of the fence. In the time that you were town you still had the ability to get a feel of the game and of the players who were town. That knowledge helped you formulate a strategy to benefit your new teammates.
I do give credit to Diablo. He played a chill game. I always had a hunch that he may be scum but didn't want to target him because he seemed like a good guy.
With respect to the town suicide...Frankly, I think it's arbitrary to say its against the spirit of the game to say that that strategy cannot be implemented. If there was a clear rule preventing it--fine. But, if this is, in fact, a team sport, I don't see a problem with a willing member of the team to fall on his sword in order to help his teammates fulfill their objective--out the mafia. From my experience (4 games) the mafia have a decided advantage in this game--especially games where the town have limited powers. If I'm wrong please make an argument that Diablo should have been outed and lynched earlier in the game--as I don't see it. He had Coju fooled until the very end.
You could have admonished the cheaters in the dead thread and let the game play out a little bit longer on the live thread. When the game ended, mafia was in line to win anyway. If Coju, for no good reason, were to have changed his vote back to Diablo you could have made the safe assumption that is was based upon the "likes" and called the forfeit. Neither Coju nor I sought any assistance from our dead cohorts--and we will never know if it would have changed the outcome. I'm not being a sore loser--I just wanted the game to end organically and not based on outside interference.
What I would suggest in the future would is to forbid people that aren't playing to post on the board. It gets confusing and doesn't add anything to the game for those participating. Also, make a clear rule banning any activity of any kind on the game board once someone is lynched.
I was recruited the first night. So i did not have any advantage there. What I do have is experience playing and picking up things which I use when playing either side. Mafia or scum players are supposed to try to blend in and act like town. If scum doesnt do that, they can't win.
The strategy I employed to sniff out power roles can be done as town or scum. I'm not going to say what it is but I will say that Caluin Graye was passively defending himself from it, even though he was modding. No one else was.
The strategy I employed to sniff out power roles can be done as town or scum. I'm not going to say what it is but I will say that Caluin Graye was passively defending himself from it, even though he was modding. No one else was.
- Sep 12, 2013
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Lol. I was gonna volunteer for the town suicide plan! I had a nice old fake Role PM all ready to go and everything. I can't get modkill if I'm not actually quoting my REAL role PM, right? 
Also, who the heck was neutral? I WAS really concerned about an SK, or survivor that was gonna end up winning the game.
Also, who the heck was neutral? I WAS really concerned about an SK, or survivor that was gonna end up winning the game.
- Sep 12, 2013
- 4,903
- 1,721
- 113
"You think he's power role?"
"I saw something that caught my attention."
I wanted to know what this was about. Guess you're not showing all your cards!
I couldn't figure out who came up with the SK angle. Had I been alive I would have discou.Ted it in endgane.
Like CG pointed out somewhere before, an SK has to kill nightly. So you would have had two NK's in one night, every night. An SK can be even or odd nights or delayed meaning that they don't start killing till the second night. But it still boils down to two bodies turning up at the start of the day.
I was laughing because I knew an SK wasn't in this game because of that. Also in a game of this size, an SK is bad because the number of ayers will dwindle too quickly, putting the town in Lylo way too fast and likely resulting in the SK's premature death via lynch.
Now a Village Idiot is an entirely different thing lol.
Like CG pointed out somewhere before, an SK has to kill nightly. So you would have had two NK's in one night, every night. An SK can be even or odd nights or delayed meaning that they don't start killing till the second night. But it still boils down to two bodies turning up at the start of the day.
I was laughing because I knew an SK wasn't in this game because of that. Also in a game of this size, an SK is bad because the number of ayers will dwindle too quickly, putting the town in Lylo way too fast and likely resulting in the SK's premature death via lynch.
Now a Village Idiot is an entirely different thing lol.
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