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Vessel of Hatred

The PvP Thread

@Delsy nice games yesterday! If you make a Barb for LLD we can switch roles and I can try my Necro. :)

Following up on the WW weapons thing: Bloodletters have similar damage to Robo+Honor Nagas on paper, but range... roughly half of Knouts/Nagas (see range section here). I'd expect performance in practice to suffer greatly because of this, but perhaps with fast tele and on-point WWs it can work well enough. When going without tele, the range looks like a deal breaker to me for sure. IMO 2x Knout Honor is the best/most well-rounded budget option, I'm currently using this.

As for target setup, I've been trying a few different approaches in our games and also feeding various setups into spreadsheets. Still WIP but slowly getting a better idea of how to properly approach him. I'm hoping to somehow grind out a +WW barb helm, which however seems to be a daunting task. In the meantime I'm going for the below, once I farmed 1-2 socket quests:

PCrown (20% ED jewel) *
Viper (max jewel) **
Robo Naga (mine will have 29-132 dmg)
Honor Naga (secondary)
SoE
Bloodfist, IK gloves, Magefist (TBD) ***
1-2x rare rings FCR, 100+ AR, 70-90 mana, some life rep; potentially 1x SoJ***
Rare amulet +1 Barb. 59 life, 65 mana

Tele-staff on switch + Whitstan's for block.

* I'm late realizing how good it is for Barb too. Better damage than 40 ED jewels, 80 life, FRW and life rep is great without 2x Honor.

** 3os/dmg plate is the alternative, but Viper has so many things going for it both offensively and defensively, worth the lower dmg IMO and the difference isn't that big given one max jewel and +1 skills.

*** Depending on how I feel about 37 vs 63 FCR. If I manage to shop an FCR tele staff, it's down to IK/Bloodfist

Speaking of socket quests, that will probably result in an ES/Fire Sorc as well... seems ridiculously strong even with no special items whatsoever. Massive bang for zero bucks it looks like.

I'll also make a tele-Windy... and that's going to be it. I'm already grinding more than expected for LLD. :D
 
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My barb is ready. I should be able to play at Saturday and Sunday, usual time.
 
@ffs I make a game at 6 today? I have a free afternoon, let me know the time that would suit you.
 
@ffs good games yesterday. I'm slowly getting a picture how things look at lvl 30.

So far Bowa looks the strongest. It will be challenge to find a char that is a favourite against her.

Necro is good all around, but I think he will always struggle vs bowa.

Barb does allright, but he needs a solution vs Hammer. Either a bow or harpoons. Dunno if either will work.

Also, I guess spellcasters do suffer more from normal rush, but time will tell.

Teleporting stuff I leave up to you for now, maybe it will help in some duels.

It was fun so far. I would like to make a bowa as my next char. If I can trade for some 15 maxers, she should be allright. Btw today I will not play after all, I need to catch up some sleep. If you have some initial thoughts ffs, I'd like to know.
 
What do you mean by 15 maxers? Jewels go up to 24 for lvl 30 and GCs up to 10 (unless 1.07). 15 max single mod jewels I think I still have a bunch, and I made a 45max & 50 life armor before I shopped a better one from anya. You can have it if you want, or such jewels.

Agreed bowa is very strong. From what I gather she only struggles against teleporting chars or maybe hard hitting Charger. ES Sorcs are probably a nightmare matchup in particular. Otherwise rather OP indeed.

Liberator also super solid, although Necro and Bowa should have an advantage, he seems to always stand a chance at least and generally favoured vs melee.

Barb seems very good. I think I prefer tele-based, but max FRW build like yours is also very tough to face unless with a crazy amount of FRW. My Necro with 90-110 FRW was crushed. I will try to get the stuff to remake my Barb and perhaps Necro until next weekend, but racking Barb helms is tedious. But he should be much better after the makeover, once I manage to get a WW helm and switch to Nagas.

I also want to try tele Windy, should work similarly to Barb. But I don’t have very good pelts and amulets. Sorc I have OK gear but I’m not that interested in the gameplay. Also native teleport seems too strong for many matchups as long as opponent doesn’t use a staff, and I don’t think I would enjoy walking/running with her.
 
@ffs Yes I meant 15 max plain jewels. I have only one. I'm missing more items it turns out. IIRC you mentioned bowa has mana problems. That'd mean high mana on the rings and amulet is a priority. I don't have anything decent. I'll try to trade for something but it wont be quick.
 
LLD actually happened? I need to get 1.14d installed again. I upgraded my Mac OS for something else so now Wine won’t work.
 
@maxicek do it! :) We've been playing LLD for a couple of weeks with @Delsy and @Pyrohemia, and perhaps @entwilighter can make it next time as well.

Also GGs with @Pyrohemia on short notice yesterday. A bunch of scary chars you got there!

@Delsy let me know how many 15 max jewels you need. But they're kinda interm solutions in any case, especially when trading. High mana rings as well. I'm using a few nice ones with good rolls like + damage, strength, life rep etc., but I can spare a bunch of high mana + "at least something useful" like str/dex, AR, resists... My bowa has 300 mana which is OK when I choose not to spam like an idiot. I'm thinking about adding 1x FRW/mana GC to get to ~350 which should be comfortable with my 8 FPA build. For 9 FPA setup 300 should be plenty I'd say.

I can PM you some readouts tomorrow evening probably.
 
GGs last time @Delsy.

I now remade my Barb, as described here. Looking forward to trying him as I'm curious how the new setup compares to the previous one. On paper it seems like a big improvement.

Also finally made a fire ES sorc. Where do we stand on teleport for Sorc, is it allowed? If so I'll try her as well, otherwise I probably won't bother.

Tbh that's my only problem with LLD: Just running around and having so much depend on FRW is kinda boring. On the other hand, learning how to work with a tele-staff makes it super fun. I'm still terrible with it... getting older doesn't help with building new muscle memory, apparently. ;)

I wouldn't mind mixing in some HLD again either in upcoming weeks, if you (or others) are interested in switching back and forth a bit. Either way is fine by me.
 
@ffs use teleport on your sorc by all means.

Contrary to you, I enjoy running a lot. I like the positioning game and also the fact that you have to be conservative with your stamina. Combine that with preserving your mana and the whole duel becomes a tactical spectacle.

In european GM rules Amazon is capped at 120 frw. I think this is a good benchmark since 120 is kind of necessary to deal with Spirits effectively. Other chars I don't mind going higher, but Bowa shouldn't as she's very strong already.

Also I'd like to play lvl 30 a little longer. I want to try Barb with Knouts to see how it compares to Bloodletters and how running barb compares to teleporting one in general. One more char I'd like to try is Fire Druid as well.
 
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I was away again last weekend but I am likely to be around this weekend for some LLD!

I'm in Australia, so I might have to wake up very early or something but that is fine. Delsy and I have duelled before, I think he found he got a bit of lag. Come to think of it, I should edit and upload the duels some time. It was probably a couple of years ago now!

I have a few things I could bring, prob will try to gear up at least a caster and a melee char.
 
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Nice, looking forward to it.

I should be able to play on Saturday and Sunday, although probably a bit later than usual, something like 10pm CET. Hope that works for everyone. @entwilighter for you that's probably good news as it's not super early morning. :)

@Delsy sounds good, I don't mind sticking with LLD for a bit and building additional chars even. Level 30 characters are quickly made after all, and there's still many things to try even if weaker than the top tier builds. Haven't made any Assassin yet so perhaps 1-2 of those are in order. I got 2os on a +5 Fissure Pelt at some point so that's on my list as well.

So far I like Barb gameplay a lot and I think I'll mostly focus on him. But I'll also bring Sorc next time just to see what ES FB is like with lvl 30 and average gear.
 
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