OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

@Massive can you please explain why you have made 2 very weird votes. Firstly against a person that has already posted and you says that he has not (that is quite suspicious in my mind). Secondly you then vote for me, yes I know that I have not posted until now, that is simple if you think about it if Jason is online I can not be as we only have one computer, therefore I am unable to post.


Certainly, First vote was a screw up because my list was wrong. Second, I'm new to SPF and granted I don't know this community that well. However I knew from the last game that you both were able to post relatively within the same time frame so I didn't think that it was a hinderance to post. No mafia logic simple no post gets the vote in round 1.

Unvote maatiarna

I'll vote for another non poster (to date) once I review posts again


 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Wow I really need to start posting more in the daytime it seems.

@Liq - To be perfectly honest it's a little bit of both, but more so on the bandwagon part. At that part in the game it was pretty obvious the people were joking around and having fun and since this is my first mafia game I didn't have anything to go off of besides your freaky tar.
Unvote Liquid_Evil

For the rest of this I'm going to reread the last 5-6 pages here in a little bit and I'll post further comments.
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Oh... Your logic is that anyone not ignoring you is automatically suspect? So basically : 'If you leave me alone, you are not mafia. If you pay attention to me, you are suspect.'

It makes perfect sense, especially if you look at past games. I do tend to be ignored. So, with water_moon being mafia, anyone actively defending her is more likely to be mafia as well, ESPECIALLY if they do so by attacking me. I've stated as much at this point, so it's no longer a valid tactic, as it is known to the mafia now. But in the posts before that, it was completely valid.

And if we are wrong then we vote you, Goltar, right?

That's the plan. Though we all know how well plans hold together a day or so after they're made.

Another quick read, but enough to answer a few of the more direct questions. I'll need to go back over my suspect list and try to connect a few more dots before I change that. Which will likely be after Elizabeth goes to bed.



 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

I have no agenda to go after L_E unless he is mafia. In fact, L_E as townie is one of our greatest assets since he is adept at catching baddies. Besides, I don't think I have the cajones to go after him anyway even if I was convinced he was mafia.

You might not. But if you plant the idea subtly enough, everyone will, and then you don't need them.

Why are you so set on defending him though? I am sure he can take care of himself.

I'm not defending him. I'm simply pointing out the potential set-up.

lukin said:
Also, its time to cast my vote for W_M until she and Goltar provide a proper explanation for their actions. Right now she is my top suspect, although Nikon's complete misread and subsequent focus on one of my posts as opposed to a person who claims his own wife if mafia and if she isn't we can lynch him is both increasingly dubious and odd. His follow-up that I am trying to focus on Goltar to clear the way to kill L_E is even more strange.

I never said you were focusing on goltar alone. Especially, when you're quite clearly focusing on w_m. Slip? Talk about misreading. With all that talk of human psyche, I thought you'd craft better posts, to be honest.

Better than say, claiming that the potion and meal can kill you - which is deliberately spreading misinformation, and then berating ME for not reading the rules. Oh, and by the way - Plum and the Cook are equivalent. It doesn't matter who they choose. The only difference is that the Cook must die for a townie win.

And sure, my vision not being obstructed by a smoke screen sure is weird.

I might've missed something, will check back in a couple of hours.



 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

I HATE when I have a dozen errands to run on the first days of a new game. By the time I'm back there are 6+ pages.

w_m- Why was goltar suspicious before he even posted? Does he have some real life tell that you can easily spot?
Okay, to clear the air, I ment mine as a joke. I would hope the host would act differntly :rolleyes: He's a bit more hyper (In RL) about this game than usual but I'd chalked that up to the start of a new game. I did not expect him to go off the deep end.

@L_E why did you really go for cygnus? Remember that whole part about you being smart enough alone doesn't count if you don't share?

#2, I was techinally incorrect in saying that who recived food/drink was non indicative. There's the card counting factor. With 3 + and 3- effects, when 2 good pots have been served, you serve those you want hurt and vice versa. If a bunch of worthless ones are out, then you know there's a higher chance of a whammy.

It makes perfect sense, especially if you look at past games. I do tend to be ignored.
Yah no one paid any attention last time either. [/sarcasm]

That's the plan. Though we all know how well plans hold together a day or so after they're made.
In other words once you get me dead and out of the way then hopefully everyone will move back ignoring you?
Goltar's claim is interesting. Past play would indicate a number of things:
.
2. If I'm not mistaken (and I might be here) both of them have at one point been mafia.
.
.
I'd like to note the only time he was mafia he killed me on the very second night he could, to keep me from finding anything out. (he was a recuitment target)

He has, prior to this game, never started as any roll but that of plain old townie. Which means about as much as Cygus, magic, and Muzz frequently being mafia -- Nothing.

I do not vote randomly. And I will not retailiate. But I do go for anyone acting differntly from usual, and I've noticed one person is a lot more talkative than normal.

Vote: Lukin



 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Friends, I think we have a winner.

Thyiad has been role hinting at Professor all day. A spelling correction: Grammar, nor Grammer, and then correcting the usage of the 'there' instead of the possessive their. At first I thought she's just being your friendly-neighbourhood spelling nazi, but that isn't the case: Sint has used the word novilty several times without being corrected. The corrections are directed only at game participants. There are no spelling corrections in pre-game banter either. She's definitely role playing.

There's no reason for the professor (or any other role for that matter) to volunteer to come out on the first day. It's the appearance of the cake with her name tagged on it that prompted the action. She didn't take the cake either. How the devil does it matter in the context of the game what kind of cake it is?

If she were a plain townie, she could have declined the cake with a polite "No, thanks."

It she were a townie with a power role, the best action would have been to quietly accept the offering. It is likely that a different person will be offered the potion/meal each day, so each person will most likely not have to partake of more than a potion and a meal. That's two random effects, a gamble definitely worth taking considering most of the effects are duds.

The group that gains most from declining the daily offerings is the scum. 7 potions + 7 meals is a fairly good chance that something bad happens to one or two of them. It is in the mafia's interest that offerings declined are not seen in a negative light. Declining a meal/potion after 3-4 days of play will be viewed as suspicious if everyone else has been eating/drinking theirs, but it's something you could get away with on the first day. Especially after a couple of people indicated their distaste (sorry :rolleyes:) for the random effects from the food and drink.

Thyiad then lets us know that she can't cook. Combined with the English corrections, this is no doubt an anti-role-claim. She's the cook, let's get her.

vote: Thyiad
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

I do not vote randomly. And I will not retailiate. But I do go for anyone acting differntly from usual, and I've noticed one person is a lot more talkative than normal.

Vote: Lukin

For what it's worth, I believe that I am talking as much as I did on any weekend during both rounds I have played so far. If I am posting more, it is only a few posts at best. Also my wife is out of town which means I am free to post all day long. Once the work week starts (tomorrow at 5AM I had a three day weekend) and I go back to 14 hour workdays, I will clam up quickly. Also, what is normal when, if you are correct and I am talking way more than usual, I was mafia once and townie once.

In fact, when I was mafia, I definitely talked less.

The more you post the more convinced I am that you are mafia. If Goltar were mafia, he wouldn't need to lynch you.


 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

@massive: hehe, I was wondering if I was gonna be next. :grin:

I've been sitting back and checking up on the thread several times throughout the day, but as Day 1 is usually pretty random, (and full of bad/missed jokes/jokevotes :rolleyes:), I didn't have much to say off the bat.

Originally I didn't think goltar had much to suspect, but have recently thought of the RL tells that he might pick up, but that's not exactly something we can see, or he can prove. I'm taking her original post against him as a joke, so I don't see it having much merit. I'll be looking for his next post before I make a vote for either one here, if I vote for one of these two (though I'm leaning more towards goltar being townie here).

Not sure what to make of lukin/nikon yet.

As far as the meals go, Thy shouldn't be cleared or suspected because she got a meal. We could argue the reverse-reverse-reverse-psychology all day here. The cook (and prof) can give it to anyone they feel like for any reason; whether it's to make someone look guilty or innocent (in the case of the cook) we can't know for sure. Especially since we all know that the meals/potions can both have positive and negative effects. (Though further into the game this could possibly change, for now I will ignore the fact that someone received a meal)
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Just a little off-topic:

For those that have the pleasure of having a spouse also involved in the game, please do not bring 'real-life tells' and other accusations into the game.

I may be the only one, but for me it just ruins the role playing enviroment of the game and may lead to unfair advantages.

/end rant


@Cyg - interesting theory, will have to sleep on that one. It may have some validity, but I am no where near sold


@maaty - my vote for Jason was for voting for Liq, nothing more. I just belive that Liq is a little to valuable to put up for a lynch at this time. With 7 bad guys running around, it won't take much for them to get a quick lynch if a couple of people bandwagon vote.
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

@ Cygnus- Where you at? I need you to be more active so I can start to work on my anti-Cyg post that's sure to get you lynched.

Liquid's algorithm for catching mafia:
1. Call out someone as mafia
2. Wait for that person to post, preferably something incriminating
3. If said person doesn't cooperate, interpret some harmless remark that person made as something totally insidious
4. Get that person lynched and hope he proves you right
5. You are generally not alive at this point, but if you were, go back to step 1 and repeat.

It's sheer genius, you should patent it, really :tongue:

I've never been lynched as a townie and this game will be no different.
And that's precisely what makes you so dangerous to the town. Same rules as last game apply. If you are not dead by day 5, I'm coming after you.



 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

As promised, my suspicion list. I'm leaving off the ones I am really uncertain about, as there's not much point saying I have no clue.

water_moon: As I've said before, she's mafia.

Merlin: He's too focused on defending water_moon and attacking me, even beyond a reasonable townie's confusion or misdirection.

L_E: Townie. Same reasons as before.

ahcw: Voting based on avatar? That's poor, random play. Either really bad mafia, or more likely, townie.

lukin: See ahcw, same thing.

And for those concerned that I'm mafia and trying to set myself up as trusted by sacrificing a teammate, feel free to lynch me tomorrow even if w_m shows mafia. It'll waste a lynch, but if it makes you feel better, and gets people to find the mafia (which last time I checked is our goal), then my death would be worthwhile.
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

And for those concerned that I'm mafia and trying to set myself up as trusted by sacrificing a teammate, feel free to lynch me tomorrow even if w_m shows mafia. It'll waste a lynch, but if it makes you feel better, and gets people to find the mafia (which last time I checked is our goal), then my death would be worthwhile.

I was waiting for goltar25 to come strong with this evidence of w_m's mafia ties. It could be deemed suspicious, but he's certainly adamant in his opinion. While this bold claim is not coming strong with evidence, it is coming strong, so I

Vote: water_moon
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Well, I don't know how helpful it will be, but here are my thoughts so far.

Kinda townish vibes from these folks:
Massive: trying to get non-contributors to voice up, seems to be keeping abreast of things, just not doing anything too odd so far.
W_M: seems confused about why goltar is on her case, made a good point about keeping track of potion effects.
Cygnus: trying hard to figure out a likely candidate; though I think he may be grasping at straws with his theory about Thyiad he's at least not basing his vote on nothing at all.
Nolecub: I like his warning about reckless voting. Right now 2 votes is the highest count (I think); if the mafia start jumping on a bandwagon they have an easy lynch as it stands.
maatiarna, jjscud: haven't said much, but seem like they're trying to figure stuff out.

Suspicious to me:
Nikon + Lukin: both have some shaky logic; their feud seems a little forced.
Magicboy: says he's bored, essentially claims to be a no-role townie in his first post. Strikes me as an attempt to appear non-threatening.

Just plain weird:
Merlin:posts a lot, doesn't say much.
Goltar: he's pushing hard for w_m but won't really say why aside from vague hints at RL cues that no one else can verify. Seems sincere nonetheless.
Liq: seems a little less attentive of his flock than last game.

Not really contributing much, varying from a little suspicious to sorta townie:
Ray, aman, artbell, thyiad, jae, zhao, omg, jason, ahcw, muzz, nazdakka, fried.

Haven't posted at all:
nacruno and slayer37

I'm holding my vote until the end of the day in an attempt to gather more info and make sure it's useful.

mv
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

@goltar - Since each game deals you a new role, it makes no sense. None at all.
Let's recap W_m and then my action.
1) W_M makes a joke (duh)
2) You counter with an outright suspicion claim (which I actually took as a rebuttal joke at the time, guess I was wrong)
3) I make a joke at your expense. I didn't try to defend your wife. I just make a joke.
4) Then you come up with a list of mafia suspects, in which your wife is figured prominently due to RL tells(I kinda agree with Nole here though, allthough I suppose there is no way to counter this). I am listed here as well for defending her??? And then you go ahead and state that the theory behind it is that nobody is supposed to pay any attention to you on day 1.

Let's get something straight here. I am not defending water_moon. Frankly, like almost every round so far, I have difficulties getting a read on her. As far as I know, she could just as easily be mafia as a townie. You are correct in so far that I was attacking you though, and I still am.

Your theory does not make sense, especially seeing I have only played one round with you(my very first game as a town snoop, the other one you hosted) I have made it plain I find it silly to refer to previous games(they should have no bearing whatshowever on this round) but since you apparently find this valid ground to base a theory on:
That round come day 1 Liquid came right out of the night with the claim he saw nolecub outside when he was drinking. That became pretty much the centrepoint of that day's discussion then. You stated early on you saw someone out there as well, and came with a name at the end of day 1(NacRuno). I was butting heads with several people at the time(Sint amongst them).
That was day 1. Night 2, you were recruited by the gang and that lasted for many a day, because no one was paying much attention to you... still. I was the one who pointed you out as a likely suspect and flushed you out. I suppose this is your 'let's get even with Merlin for busting me' spree?
Fine, let me put it this way. I am not going to let you fly under the radar for another game, nor let you walk on evidence presented on such a shaky theory.

vote:goltar

As far as water_moon is concerned, I'll just wait and see what role you have. If it turns out I was wrong and you come out clean, she automatically becomes a suspect on my list.


So far day 1 reads confusion, due to Sint being our host(and thus not here to shepherd the flock) and liq, true to his pre game statement, not contributing overly much day 1. Just like I said the last round, we need a plan to flush the mafiosi out. Now, even without a plan, we might still lynch a couple of mafiosi (since 25% of the players are wicked, as I mentioned before). Since we have no idea on what the potions/meals can do (apparently turn someone silvery white), it is difficult to figure out a way to use these novelty roles in a way that works for the town (apart from the way lukin proposed, which can be useful, but is admittedly minor).

I should propose that the housekeeper protects liquid_evil tonight. (If I may be so bold). He usually submits an excellent suspect list come end day 2, and we can use that as a great guideline.

Apart from goltar, I have few suspicions. Mostly because few people have contributed so far.

- I find it odd that Nac has posted almost nothing yet, especially since he makes useful and valid contributions (he did so last round). Of course, he proved to be mafia then :)
- Slayer also needs to post.
- I think people who vote based on their own personal agenda are suspicious, to be honest, so I suggest we cast a leery eye at omgwtf. Then again, that might just be a bit of an insider joke.
- Liquid seems to have made cygnus his target of the day. Now he has a lot of credentials in my book due to excellent performances in the previous games, but he seems to have no basis for his claim here.
- I suppose Cygnus made a joke post re thyiad. It sounds entirely too far fetched to be feasible in my book. Besides, the faction that has most to gain from declining meals and potions are the mafia? Townie power roles however should quietly eat and drink what is presented to them? I hope you don't believe in this yourself. I'd hate to see the doc ingest a meal and suddenly turn unconscious for two days or so. As far as I am concerned, the townie powerroles should try to remain inconspicuous and certainly not partake of anything that has a chance of debillitating (spelling?) them for 1 or 2 nights.
I think mafia players would probably have most to gain to appear as a normal townie by simply eating or drinking what is presented to them.
Based on liquid's gut feeling and this odd post, I'll put you on my suspect list for now.

- Lukin seems helpful enough, then again, so does lord nikon. Both have made valid points IMHO, and neither currently resides on my suspect list.

- Massive is faintly suspicious due to his odd request at the start of day 1, but not overly much.
- All the others have posted too little for me to get a good bearing on them. I'm tempted to say that Muzzz is suspicious, but I was the one who said we should only look at this round, and not use previous rounds as a deciding factor here. Besides, his mafia spree HAS to end sometime, doesn't it? :p
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Sorry for the late appereance. I had some RL stuff holding me back.

Firstly about the debate between Nikon and lukin; i also think that Thy is far from being clear just because of the meal she was served especially after her decline, i do not see why Nikon is pressing too hard for lukin. His argument that it is unlikely for the mafia to serve meal to one of their own the first day matches with my reasoning actually. Even though serving meal to other mafia players will be most likely the play of the cook, i do not think it being the case for the first day due to the human psychology lukin was talking about.

Secondly about Massive's random votes for the inactive players; i do not see why it looks like a townie act as midnight has suggested. On the contrary i think it to be the perfect mafia play for those wanting to be seen helpful without making a fuss of anything. He is casting his vote and than just taking it back at the first post by that person. Also the matter that he is claiming to review the posts again only to cast a vote on a non-poster makes my argument much stronger imo. Why write such a claim, wanting to seem even more helpful?

Finally about the discussion between goltar and w_m. I must agree that w_m's initial post seems much like a joke but i just can not ignore the insticts of a spouse. w_m has clearly said that she had no suspicion of goltar at the beginning other than it being a clear joke, but than why the sudden retaliation without giving any other reason than making a retaliation. Also the way goltar offered himself for lycnh is convincing enough for me to vote for w_m. We need a mafia lynch if we are to use others posts to their full effect because only after such a lycnhing we get to see the real motives of others. And w_m seems to be the one most likely to give us that initial spark.

Vote: Water_moon

EDIT @Preview: My post was coming if you waited just a few more secs merlin :rolleyes:. I see your accusations at goltar and they make sense within themselves. But although you are suggesting to keep the previous games out of this one, i sense that you are doing that yourself. I was closely following when you outed goltar that game you mentioned and it was a good call indeed. However current situation is far from that one. Goltar may be a mafia trying to misdirect others but the fact that he put up himself in case w_m is not mafia is very hard to ignore. If we are to go after goltar or w_m, it is best to choose w_m as the first lynch target imo.

PS: Me being reasonable has no relation with my motives, just to be clear with it :rolleyes:. Do not expect me to play dump when i am townie.
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

goltar: how on earth could you possibly be so certain about your wife's guilt? Welcome to my suspect list.
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

Wow... just a couple of days away from the pc and I had to read through 100+ posts. So far, I've not seen any really telltale signs of mafia on anyone. I guess it is too early to really have a solid picture. A lot of jokes and random (IMO) accusations thrown around so far... I'll vote before the day ends to have a better feel on things.
 
Re: OT: SPF Mafia Round 9 - Clue.

goltar said:
Voting based on avatar? That's poor, random play. Either really bad mafia, or more likely, townie.

I think we've covered that the vote wasn't the smartest and also that it was really a joke. I haven't seen any of the mafia games myself other than the last one that you hosted and Liquid helped the town A LOT so lynching him night 1 would not exactly be the best move. Even if he somehow turns out to be mafia it's to much of a risk for the first night's lynch.

As for your assessment I'd say it's right on the button :)

NacRuno said:
Secondly about Massive's random votes for the inactive players; i do not see why it looks like a townie act as midnight has suggested. On the contrary i think it to be the perfect mafia play for those wanting to be seen helpful without making a fuss of anything. He is casting his vote and than just taking it back at the first post by that person. Also the matter that he is claiming to review the posts again only to cast a vote on a non-poster makes my argument much stronger imo. Why write such a claim, wanting to seem even more helpful?

I agree with NacRuno here. I don't really think it's incriminating necessarily, but it hardly means that he's a townie. Besides calling someone a non contributor after the first 24-36 hours is a little harsh anyways. Take a look in another day or two, and then if those players still aren't posting then maybe push for a lynch or two.

Ray said:
Thyiad getting the cake doesn't mean she's not mafia. If anything, I'd say that it makes her more suspicious. It's a great way to try and distance her from them.

If this were true she would've more than likely eaten the cake instead of refused. It's already been said though that you could go back and forth on the food/potion thing and still not figure anything out.

maatiarna said:
Ahcw - because he was quick to bandwagon vote for Liq after he was voted for. As was stated Liq being lynched would not be in the best interest for the town at this stage.

While I suppose it's justified you DO realize that your own husband voted for Liq right? It seemed like a joke from an "unfair" vote in a previous game, but just refreshing your memory there. Btw, thinking I bandwagoned only because Ray voted for me isn't very wise. It's pretty obvious Ray was joking and just picked a random name at (least I think so, was there a reason you voted for me Ray?) so why would that make me freak out? Like Goltar said I would have to be HORRIBLE mafia to freak out over such a trivial vote especially if my vote is for someone who has 0 chance of being lynched today. Bottom line, my vote was just a joke and nothing more (his avatar does hurt my eyes though, no lie).


As for the whole w_m/goltar thing, well I don't know what to think. I thought both of them were joking when I read their first posts, but goltar seems to think his wife is up to something. He hasn't really said much as to why other than she's acting funny but I think if anyone would know it'd be him. Just last game Jason was outed by his wife so it's definetly something to consider here.

I'm going to hold my vote for now and see what happens in today's discussion, but it's probably leaning towards w_m. If she turns out townie then obviously suspicion goes straight to goltar, but he's already offered himself as a lynch (even if she turns out mafia).

Oh and also Thyiad being the cook just from those few things is a little far fetched Cygnus. There just doesn't seem to be anyway at this point to know 100%. If however later we find out she is the cook then I'll be sure to remember who saw it first.

@Liquid - Just curious, why are you pushing Cygnus so hard? Just from previous games or is this just what you do at the start of games to see how they react? Or is it just a joke that I'm somehow missing? (being the new guy sucks..)
 
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