You got quite a nice pile coming along. Did I understand correctly, 6 grandfathers now?
With all those tc90 weapons, its only a matter of time.
Regarding horking, unfortunately im afraid the arent many forumites still around that unravel that mystery...
Recent thought: in those cow runs i did, i had 2 characters in the cow level to (im almost certain) increase drops. What I can confirm, is that the char that was not 99 got a substantial amount of experience. From about 93.15 to 93.65.
This means that both xp reward and party drops probably behave like 1.07 where the effect is not limited to two screens like in modern patches.
If this is true, bringing 7 mules to each of the 'good' areas we're clearing might further reduce the no drop to just 1.64%!
Yeah. 6 Grandfathers dropped in 1.08 alongside with two that I forwarded from 1.07 to start this project off (I'm still semi upset about it, but I never expected this to be so insane). I'm recording majority of my runs post first Windforce drop, and then deleting weak ones or those that were mediocre and such. I'd hate not having Stormspire drop recorded.
But yeah, the fact that I have GT drop recorded from WSK3 imp means that probably whoever did ATMA drop odds did it correct, because visually those imps were super underwhelming for some reason and I genuinely thought that it's some kind of error. With that in mind, Frozen River, if we can confirm TC90 drop, would actually be great area to add to the list. Those Temptress are super fragile, they autoagro from rather big range and you can kill and hork them easily while ignoring rest of non TC90 eligible monsters. There's also occasional Frozen Scourge bosspacks, and Evil urns often spawn Temptress bosspacks that have 1:44k to drop Archon Staff as well. The whole area is saturated with bosspacks + Frozenstein at the end as well. All that IF we can confirm TC90 drop, which is all the more likely tbh.
I will test your players hypothesis when I'm home, but since I don't do .txt diving, could you please give me no drop odds for following:
players 1, 1 player in area
players 5, 1 player in area
players 5, 5 player in area
players 7, 1 players in area
players 7, 7 players in area
There's a lot of visual clutter in 5/1 already but I'd like the numbers if you could provide some.
Im using this table from reddit. Its more recent than 1.08, but after leveling 10+ chars to 99 in p8/8 cows (1.07) I have no reason to suspect that the numbers have ever changed: edit: changed to less blinding image
Not sure I fully agree with the frozen river...reason being that it seems some mobs are coded to drop certain non-equipment tcs more often. This is why people farm ghosts for runes. Runes fall under a non-equipment tc and ghosts drop that more often.
I suspect the same is true for succubi and imps. I still plan to look into it, just too much to do atm.
Okay, this is useful. So far I haven't been able to do anything and will resume Friday-ish. I wanted to test better no drop odds only to realize that my mules don't have access to ac5 Hell because of incomplete rush.
I guess I'll do new set of rushes. I didn't really think this properly before, but if I'm gonna be leeching XP I might as well make useful characters for that patch.
Hey, I just want to clarify a few things as a bit of a summary
It works in all patches, but 1.07/1.08 is best because before it didn't have those high items, and no diminishing caps on MF.
sounds like there are a few options but you are doing a multiplayer game as no /players X command, are you using the modified DLL for that? As mentioned above, reduces chance of no drop
Next step find souls, get ritual performed multiple times (assumes you have a character in hell that can take the damage first) then do the killing in preferred locations which is most likely parts of act 5.
How long does the setting up from first firing up the game till everyone partied up? about 15 years ago i did some HF rushing .. seems so long ago now,
and no dying/leaving game so you want empty stashes but hopefully with the mules they can help carry stuff too.
This is completely subjective. What's 'best' depends on what you're looking for. Several patches have slightly different variations of items so someone else could regard the ritual as best in a patch besides 1.07/1.08.
again, this conclusion is very dependent on what you want to find. Most of the posts in this thread consist of a dialogue between @frozzzen and I trying to find very specific items.
Not clear if you mean before or after rituals. After rituals it only takes 2 minutes to get 7 other chars in game. Partying only makes a difference if you move those characters to the location you are farming.
Not an issue really as most stuff is still garbage and if you somehow manage to fill 8 chars of stashes and inventory then any of the non-hosts can leave and rejoin the game
Not sure I fully agree with the frozen river...reason being that it seems some mobs are coded to drop certain non-equipment tcs more often. This is why people farm ghosts for runes. Runes fall under a non-equipment tc and ghosts drop that more often.
I suspect the same is true for succubi and imps. I still plan to look into it, just too much to do atm.
That's the "Wraith" TC. In 1.07/1.08 nothing uses the (existing!) Act 5 Wraith TCs. Indeed, the only TCs used in act 5 for regular monsters are "H2H" and "Cast", both of which are very ordinary.
This definitely depends on what you want. For an 1.08 grail, you should only run areas with TC90 mobs, and only go to other areas when you have a Stormspire and miraculously don't haven't gotten all other uniques. For a 1.07 grail, some act 5 hell makes sense, but you'll want to do other areas, too - including in nightmare (nm acts 2&3, for TC 42 stuff). For items for later patches, it depends on which items you actually want. The best pre-1.09 items for later (IMO that's Saracen's Chance, String of Ears, Vampire Gaze, Harlequin Crest, and Arkaine's Valor) don't require act 5 unless you go for Harle in 1.07 (which can't drop Arkaine's).
This is completely subjective. What's 'best' depends on what you're looking for. Several patches have slightly different variations of items so someone else could regard the ritual as best in a patch besides 1.07/1.08.
While what you said isn't wrong per se, I think you're going overboard with the "depends on what you're looking for". The only meaningful options are pre-LoD, 1.07, and 1.08. It is pointless to do it in later patches, as (due to the changes to MF) the time investment makes it less efficient then regular MF runs. Especially in D2R, thanks to terrorized Andy. I'm not counting grails, because unless going for cross-patch grail, there is no "best" patch, as there's only one option.
Pre-LoD has juicy rares, 1.07 takes lower numbers of rituals (and has the upside of being able to use the items in 1.07 itself), and 1.08 has access to Arkaine's Valor and Windforce. This is true regardless of whether you want to the items for D2R or for an earlier patch.
Ritual stacking is quite a pain - literally! The souls seem to crit constantly even on a level 93 barb with 1800 defense. Less so when I have an armor shrine, but even then I still need to chug health pots! I will probably need to find a nice shield to swap out and dump my 31 remaining skill points into iron skin and/or shout
Big lack of pdr gear obviously, I'll have to research what, if any, options there are
The ai is significantly worse. Among various problems, I had a few occassions where 1 or 2 of the souls would do the ritual (and run through it completely) while the other 2 souls sit there smacking me.
Significantly harder to get the ritual to start and chain. Although I had one instance where it did manage to chain and in that case it was faster than in 1.08 where there seems to be a 'cooldown' before the ritual will start again
Looks like a small effect after 2 rituals (lots of set items), a good effect after 5 (reasonable amount of rares and still quite a few sets). Didnt manage to test more than that
WW barb is (obviously) a pain to get souls alive into a corner. I think a counter to this problem might be to lure as many as souls as possible into a corner with taunt and then (carefully) reap them down to 4 with single normal attacks
Souls in plains of despair seem rarer to spawn. I also tried great marsh but the flayers, swamp creatures and general form of map are all extra challenges
P8 hell cows is not realistic, they have too much hp and are too strong even for ww with very good pike
Maggots seem like they could be ok but im not that impressed after 1 session
1.00 observations mostly... please take this with a grain of salt, all of this is based on my limited playtime rather than actual proof backed up by game data/code.
I'd say the ritual MF boost doesn't last for 19.2 hours. Approximately after an hour the drops seem to return to normal. Funny thought: souls performing the full ritual cycle = 4200% MF. 4200 seconds = 1h 10min...
Im using this table from reddit. Its more recent than 1.08, but after leveling 10+ chars to 99 in p8/8 cows (1.07) I have no reason to suspect that the numbers have ever changed:
This is correct for most monster except Wraith and mini Bosses and Bosses. IMO, NoDrop percentage isn't that important. The overall Equipt (or item) percentage is. Which is different for different type of monsters
Significantly harder to get the ritual to start and chain. Although I had one instance where it did manage to chain and in that case it was faster than in 1.08 where there seems to be a 'cooldown' before the ritual will start again
Ritual stacking is quite a pain - literally! The souls seem to crit constantly even on a level 93 barb with 1800 defense. Less so when I have an armor shrine, but even then I still need to chug health pots! I will probably need to find a nice shield to swap out and dump my 31 remaining skill points into iron skin and/or shout
Big lack of pdr gear obviously, I'll have to research what, if any, options there are
What are the stats on souls, and can their attacks be blocked? It may be possible to get their damage low enough to patch over with life regen, either from items or Prayer.
On my 1.06 guy I just run back and forth in a small area so they are less likely to hit me with melee and instead shoot me with lightning. This way I can usually get the two needed rituals to force rares in hell without using more than 8 super healing potions. If I were to let 4 souls gang up on me with melee they would kill me faster than super healings could restore my health.
I'm looking for nice rare jewelry, so my goal with this new shiny trick is to get 500 rare rings and do a mass identification session, and while I'm at it I'm collecting SOJ along the way to reroll amulets with when i'm done.
@DariusTriplet based on the very limited duration of 1 hour 12 minutes, the fact that the souls are 10x less likely to start a ritual and the fact that you need several rituals to force rares (as far as i have been able to see), I am doubtful as to whether ritual farming would prove faster/more efficient than simply sticking to the tried and true cow king method of forcing rares in 1.00
@jimsfriend 1.06 (or perhaps 1.05b...) might be the way to go then. Keep us posted on that ID session, that sounds great and exactly like something I might/would do. Why don't you reroll (gambled) amulets with pskulls? On the other hand, why did you choose 1.06 over 1.05b?
In the Gamebreaking bugs thread, @art_vandelay pointed out the findings of @galaxyhaxx which indicate why 1.05b is a better choice:
1.06/1.06b eating items (1.06/1.06b exclusive)
Due to the nature of item generation in Classic it is possible to find two items with the exact same fingerprints in a legitimate way. This happens mostly during the popular 1.00 Cow King runs where players will always take the same route from the red portal to the Cow King (As with racks his drops are influenced by the route you take to get to him). As a consequence pre-LoD trading is banned in the SPF as it is not possible to tell whether two items with identical fingerprints were generated in this (legitimate) way or by actual duping.
In this post GalaXyHaXz reveals that patch 1.06/1.06b did not bring any relevant game play changes but instead are meant to delete all dupes on a character when forwarded from 1.00-1.05b to 1.06-1.06b. The consequence of this is that patches 1.06/1.06b should be avoided by time travellers. All the gameplay changes usually attributed to 1.06/1.06b are already present in 1.05b and so this patch is the best option for anyone looking to reroll rares, play builds that are not viable in 1.00 (such as Bowazons) or whirl around with a Lance
The buff definetly lasts more than 1 hour and 12 minutes. My guess is that the 3 different durations which @Pavke mentioned were from 1.00 > 1.07 > 1.10
CtC Frost Nova when struck is pretty helpful and does not seem to interfere with what appears to be a check by the AI every AI cycle to start ritual
Holy Freeze is therefore probably a very good way to farm stacks - if only a paladin could kill as fast as WW or Lightning Fury...
Once the ritual has started, not all of the members of the ritual need to remain present; 2 or 3 souls can continue even if one wanders too far away or even stops all together and starts attacking you instead
The souls can also get de-synced (if it takes one soul too long to move to its position for example) whereby portions of 2 different letters are being shot at the same time
In this case each of the souls will still continue through all steps until they have completed the entire ritual
Boss monsters can participate in the ritual
Town portals have no effect on the ritual: they can be open before, during or after
The minimum amount of time between rituals seems to be 60 seconds
I HF rushed myself a new set of 1.08 mules with potential use in future, but for now let's just keep them as mules and gather some experience. First run was 53->56 with some dumb moments and without cow level. Speaking of Cow level, I deliberately made one Amazon for Cows to quickly level rest of the characters in 8 players game.
Do we have any sort of meta build for clearing 1.08 Cows as efficiently as possible?
I'm not sure about this 8/8 procedure; it's a quite annoying, it takes some time to drop them off in specific areas, but it's probably worth it mathematically. No drop is very notable when you have 8/8 instance and empty one. I guess I've had to see 8/8 first to appreciate the amount of drops. Some observations:
When your mules die, they are not considered "in zone" for drops odds, despite their bodies technically being in zone. They do not get experience that way either. This is different than how game handles dead characters while doing quests.
Baal can apparently kill them while they are afk, and when he wiped them I've seen massive change in no drop. You can keep them safe if they are on waypoint area apparently, but when moving trough floors you have to be conscious about where you leave town portals for zoning them in. I don't know how the areas would react if you were to run trough it to find the exit safety zone, then rerun it with 8/8 settings. I guess that's still needed to be tested. Still nothing from Frozen River except the most disgusting p8 Fanaticism Cursed Extra strong strong frenzytaur that did roughly 1500 damage and two hits with frenzy. I've never seen anything hit as hard, and almost died couple times just by whirling over it.
No new TC90, but progress looks roughly like this:
I am not so sure that 8/8 is actually working. I think its 8/1 but I am not paying very close attention. My mind says that only 5% of monsters should drop nothing but in practice it doesn't seem to work out that way. At least for cows...
When your mules die, they are not considered "in zone" for drops odds, despite their bodies technically being in zone. They do not get experience that way either. This is different than how game handles dead characters while doing quests.
Of course you must carefully groom and care for your mules! This is my plan:
But I am not actively pursuing any more 1.08 goals atm and probably not for the next few months. I was just farming in 1.07 to get those boots and now I am after a few more eth versions of a few uniques. So these pallies are just a bonus to fill the game and eventually move to 1.08 and be the mightiest of AFK'ers in the WSK.
Didn't know this, but it might solve the problem if the areas near the stairs are considered safe zones. Did you try the stair areas on the 1st and 3rd floors? What happens there?
I didn't really explain it all that well. I mean these:
Areas near stairs aren't considered safe. Just those... idk how to even describe them, but if you are on area with those red tiles then you are safe. They can be found on all 3 WSK floors so there's always way to ensure your mules are safe. If you go trough the doors and find yourself in the open like in the center of the screen then you are eligible for Baal afk damage, and that's how my mules got wiped there.
I meant Amazon Cow build just to soak experience. I'm kinda curious how it would work to just hork with barb afterwards and if those would be 100k MF horks, but this is mostly curiousity. You did iirc 4 x lvl99 in 1.07? So you should probably have some ideas on how to build your zon. All I know is that I don't have elaborate crafts so Titan's is probably my only javelin.
I'm not sure if 8/8 is actually 1.65% no drop or whatever, probably not. But I immediately noticed lack of drops when mules died, and I noticed when I went from 5/1 to 8/8. Kill speed is only slightly notable so it's mostly making sure that game can handle it without crashes and without it being too obnoxious to play around it.
As for 1.08, I still have couple weeks of trying this stuff but then I'll probably have to slow down considerably. But even if I don't get Stormspire, blueprint and messages here should probably make it possible for someone that is crazy enough to consider this in future.
I simply picked the last classic version before expansion, without looking into the differences. I reroll each map after a clear anyway, because I specifically *don't* want dupes.
Pskulls are extremely rare and hard to get. Shrine farming is tedious and not in my classic goals for now. Using the pskull only recipe also doesn't give me the good ilvl afaik. So soj+pskull is imo the best recipe to reroll amulets. I'm only collecting the soj's because they drop, I don't think it's by any means efficient. I think gambling is probably still the most efficient way to get ilvl92+ amulets in classic.
Hey guys,
Few questions regarding this, couldn't find a good answer.
1. What do you guys mean with '1/2' a ritual?
2. How do you guys consistently do this? I try just sitting there with 3-4 souls and have yet to see them perform this ritual.
Very interesting Easter egg after so many years! Maybe have to blow the dust of my 1.07 and 1.08 characters..
I didnt explain myself either ;P I meant exactly what you are referring to, i just wasnt sure if you had tried it on the 1st and 3rd floors. Good to know. I may have made these pallies for nothing then - oh well.
In fact I was so tired when I posted I have to quote myself because I made a mistake...I have not tried p8 WW cows in 1.08 because i only have 4 mules which can enter cow level atm and thats why im leveling more - derp. I meant p8 ww is not viable in 1.00. But the issue with cows in 1.08 is that they don't seem to actually drop tc90.
If all you want to do is level in cows, I'm afraid that 1.07 is infintely better. Javazon does not work in 1.08 cows because both lightning fury and crushing blow were nerfed. Bowazon might work (let's ask @WoRG ) but i doubt at p8.
For 1.07 the gear is incredibly cheap:
2x fastest [wsm] javelin of amplify damage you can find - the cheaper the better. The dream for me would be the max increased stack size prefix with amp suffix - +skills are irrelevant (weapon 1 and 2)
2x Tiamat's rebuke (ias jewel)
Guillame's (ias jewel)
Cat's eye
Rattlecage (ias jewel)
M'avina's belt (the 1.07 version is better than 1.08)
Crafted blood gloves (up to 15% CB) with 20 ias if possible
Goblin Toe
1x Random ring, i use ravenfrost
1x 25+ mpk ring (surprisingly easy to roll)
For stacking mf buffs, i recently added a gerke's with sol and 3x sol crafted great haubrek (craft rolls up to 30 pdr + 3sols = up to 51 pdr!). This is plenty if the souls aren't cursed/bosses but i still completely afk too long.
Totally optional act5 merc (mainly to tank physical immune bosses for 5-10 seconds)
Movespeed small charms (no diminishing returns on movement) bonus if you find them with resists
Max pierce and lightning fury - thats it! Maybe a couple points in critical strike
All other points are up to you. Valk is ok for tanking phys immune bosses but you probably need to resummon her into position. I dump everything into dodge, evade and avoid
@WoRG still swears by multishot, but in 1.07 you would want to craft a GMB and that is a project in itself. I even made the last two zons to try it, but in the end I just cant give up LF
Barb would have to have farmed rituals just like the zon, but they would be uniques! I thought you mentioned that you tried this? I did quite a few runs horking the whole cow level and found myself questioning whether the time spent doing that could be better spent farming stacks for the next run.
Pskulls are extremely rare and hard to get. Shrine farming is tedious and not in my classic goals for now. Using the pskull only recipe also doesn't give me the good ilvl afaik
This means you don't technically need a high level character to gamble. You can gamble a level 1 rare amulet and the 2nd time you reroll it, it will be able to spawn +2 class skills.
Hey guys,
Few questions regarding this, couldn't find a good answer.
1. What do you guys mean with '1/2' a ritual?
2. How do you guys consistently do this? I try just sitting there with 3-4 souls and have yet to see them perform this ritual.
Very interesting Easter egg after so many years! Maybe have to blow the dust of my 1.07 and 1.08 characters..
Hoooo boy, nice to see you @imakeigloospat ! Have I got some questions for you!
The 1/2 ritual i was referring to is letting the souls make 4 letters and then tp'ing to town so you don't get (too much - gasp!) mf (see breakpoints on page 1, will link later) The only reason to do the 1/2 ritual I mentioned is to 'force' non-class specific set items from 1.07 hell, normal monsters. If you let the full ritual complete, you will have too much MF and get rares instead. edit: A ritual consists of:
4 souls stop attacking and 'think' for a few seconds
4 souls each move into their 1st position
They fire simultaneously, 3 times, to make a letter with lightning
They each move into their 2nd position
Fire 3 times to make a different letter
This repeats until 7 letters have been made, 3 times each
Souls go back to smacking you
@Pavke can perhaps correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that each successful simultaneous shot gives 200 MF (possibly 50 MF per soul - can't confirm). Each letter is made 3 times, so each complete letter is worth in total 600 MF. After 7 letters (one complete ritual), you should have 4200 MF (on hell).
Getting souls to start a ritual simply requires no other monsters (even/especially) other souls within 1-2 screens. If they don't start the ritual within 2 minutes, then you aren't meeting this criteria (this is for 1.07/1.08)
The 4 souls do also seem to need to be within 1 screen of each other. 3 souls will absolutely not work. Nor will 5.
In 1.00, it has been mentioned that the 'chance' to start a ritual is much lower, so the 2 minute max does not apply.
Google