Mafia game thread

[Solar Ice]

I tracked Caluin Graye last night.

Tracker Role

You feel an intense change in yourself after coming out of the Sphere. The Sphere was right. Imagination has been our greatest gift, but it could also be our downfall here. Or are we already too late? Are we going to to contain this great and terrible gift as Harry seems to think? Some part of you can’t believe that. You have to find the people blocking your way back to the surface.

Tonight and tonight only you can track one person and find out who that person was projecting their manifestations on.

A very interesting and unique game, Sathoris!

Track: Caluin Graye

All the characters have entered the Sphere. The mafia team is now complete, as are all the roles in the game. Again, randomization is a key, key element in this game. You will learn no further things from studying the mechanics.

This statement implies no additional recruitment but doesn't specify whether mafia completed via recruitment or some other mechanic. Regardless, no matter how mafia got there, mafia are there now.

I disagree. To me the above statement by Sathoris, precisely suggests additional recruitment. "now complete" means that they were incomplete before, and "before" is when Norman entered the Sphere. That is why I ended up tracking Caluin Graye, as none of the Normans were out of the question anymore. Zokar was the other choice out of the claimed Normans but it is a crapshoot. Had Sathoris not mentioned that line about the complete Mafia, I would have ended up choosing one of the other characters.

 

[Zokar1]

isn't the Sphere what is causing the things that happen, it seems to me, its the Sphere that manifests the fears I think.

The ability to imagine is the largest part of what you call intelligence. You think the ability to imagine is merely a useful step on the way to solving a problem or making something happen. But imagining it is what makes it happen
This is the gift of your species and this is the danger, because you do not choose to control your imaginings. You imagine wonderful things and you imagine terrible things, and you take no responsibility for the choice.

Seems we went over this before and Sath pretty much indirectly supports the invalidation of a Sphere role as well as his direct PM to me confirming that the Sphere is not a valid target for voting... so I really have absolutely no idea where you're going with this line.

 

[Goryani]

How does mafia-harry know no other Harry's receive the roleblock role - making it safe to fake a roleblock claim? Either mafia get to use the same abilities as their townie namesake or they receive info that none of their townie namesake will be receiving/using that ability on a particular night. I'm going with the former.

 

[MartinLong]

I tracked Caluin Graye last night.









I disagree. To me the above statement by Sathoris, precisely suggests additional recruitment. "now complete" means that they were incomplete before, and "before" is when Norman entered the Sphere. That is why I ended up tracking Caluin Graye, as none of the Normans were out of the question anymore. Zokar was the other choice out of the claimed Normans but it is a crapshoot. Had Sathoris not mentioned that line about the complete Mafia, I would have ended up choosing one of the other characters.

I think Gory meant after N4. Meaning, there was recruitment for the first 4 nights and thats it.

Since you mentioned nothing, I assume that nothing came up on CG. That doesn't mean he can't be mafia though. He could have been recruited, but not the hitman (so tracker would show he didn't target anyone). I haven't been getting any scum vibes off him, just stating what the results mean.

 

[Goryani]

Agree with most of this. The real question is random or rotating? No one has claimed getting a power twice so far. Could the hitman PM be working by the same rules?

If the hitman aspect works the same as the rotating powers we've seen, then wouldn't there have to be two mafia Harry's?

 

[Gwaihir]

After more thought, it seems too easy for town if hitman rotates - we figure out the pattern and then can block (and maybe track) to find mafia very quickly. Seems more likely that either:

1) Mafia chooses hitman
2) random mafia gets a PM to be hitman

Went back and read stories, attack flavors I saw were none, Harry, Harry, Beth. Not patterned as far as I can see, but could still be either option above.

May be thats its an easy assumption that there are 4 different characters as mafia, but I remember this from the start of the game

posted by Sathoris
A free round of advice to all participants; I cannot stress enough how everything, except the individual actions of the mafia and town, have been generated randomly. Do not develop theories and suspicions on patterns. Do not try and outguess the mod.

I know I suggested the jerry theory earlier, but isn't the Sphere what is causing the things that happen, it seems to me, its the Sphere that manifests the fears I think. Don't know quite where i'm going with this, was just a thought I had. Maybe something to do with the unbalance of the roles.

Your quote from Sath says to me that random hitman is most likely.

As for the sphere, do you think it a character in the game?

Seems we went over this before and Sath pretty much indirectly supports the invalidation of a Sphere role as well as his direct PM to me confirming that the Sphere is not a valid target for voting... so I really have absolutely no idea where you're going with this line.

Do you remember the quote where Sath hints the sphere is not in the game? As for the PM, I am confused, why would the sphere ever be a valid voting target? You need to vote for a person (Ex: Ted is not a valid voting target either I would think)

 

[Zokar1]

Do you remember the quote where Sath hints the sphere is not in the game? As for the PM, I am confused, why would the sphere ever be a valid voting target? You need to vote for a person (Ex: Ted is not a valid voting target either I would think)

It was in the post you quoted me from. I was assuming that Laarz was heading back down the path of trying to pin something on the sphere/jerry/something else which just seem not to be the case at all, it looks as if everything leads back to one of the 4 characters. I'm all for exploration of ideas, but I just thought we were done with this one.

 

[Solar Ice]

So, I guess Sathoris pretty much cleared the issues. I still have a doubt, though... Aren't four players (one "shard" of each character) somewhat low for a mafia team? Considering we started with 21 players, it would seem to me that a standard mafia team would consist of around 5 members, plus the usual neutral one. This makes me think a Beth is lying. Logic would tell me that the standard distribution would be 5 shards per characters plus either an extra neutral role or and additional shard for Norman, since he's like the leader in the book / film. Having just 4 Teds and 6 Beths makes no much sense to me.

Pushing the Neutral angle?
How does the Neutral win if there are no listed wincons for Neutrals in the rules?

So, as for last night, I got the blocker role. My first instinct was to block one of the other Harrys, but the question was which one. I initially wanted to follow Goryani's hunch and target Laarz, but after reviewing his', Pharphis' and TheFranklin's posts, I came to the conclusion that Frank's hostility towards the other shards and his reasoning for voting Thundercat (particularly the comments made on posts #678 and #707), made me believe he was the most likely to be scum. Here's my role PM:

Blocker Role


You always knew you would be the first to unlock the Sphere’s secrets. You’re by far the smartest guy in the group. Norman is only here to analyze us smarter people. Beth thinks muscle is power; she won’t know how to handle real power. Ted is just a small child, too nice, too naïve. Nonetheless this power could make any of them rival me as long as we can’t control it. They have to be stopped; this power can never leave this place.


Tonight and tonight only you can target one person and make sure that none of their manifestations will come out that night.

I am very suspicious of a claimed roleblock and a no-death Night preceding it. Could it be that Goryani was not targeted and Jcakes' save did not matter but rather Valhauros blocked TheFranklin who is a Mafia Beth? A possiblility that I am not completely willing to dismiss.

Sometimes confirming a player as town can be just as important as getting a guilty result.

How does being tracked confirm a player as Town? That player could be Vanilla Mafia.

It is very strange that you made this post because if Zokar did not track a Norman and you did not, then that leaves myself as the last claimed Norman - hence by process of elimination, you had a good idea that I was the tracker. If I targeted you, Town points to you. If I targeted Zokar then if you are Scum, you would well know that Zokar was Town (or a Scumbuddy) so no harm done in making that statement to the eyes of the Town.

You seem very eager to point out that being tracked absolves a player from being Mafia. Even though you did not do anything last night, I am inclined to push for your lynch right now.

I know that I am not Mafia so either you or Zokar are Scum if the theory of one of each char being mafia holds true and there are no other Normans hiding.

i watched val because IMO he was the most suspicious person at the time


By the looks of it it may be best to target a beth today?

By choosing to watch Val, why did you expect a player that you suspect to be Scum to be visited by Scum?

 

[Solar Ice]

I think Gory meant after N4. Meaning, there was recruitment for the first 4 nights and thats it.

Since you mentioned nothing, I assume that nothing came up on CG. That doesn't mean he can't be mafia though. He could have been recruited, but not the hitman (so tracker would show he didn't target anyone). I haven't been getting any scum vibes off him, just stating what the results mean.

I did not get a PM from Sathoris confirming a result on Caluin Graye. The story-line does indicate the result however.

Yes, Caluin Graye could very, very well be Scum.

 

[pharphis]

I think my internet got mad for a minute. I'll try responding again.

How does mafia-harry know no other Harry's receive the roleblock role - making it safe to fake a roleblock claim? Either mafia get to use the same abilities as their townie namesake or they receive info that none of their townie namesake will be receiving/using that ability on a particular night. I'm going with the former.

Why are these the only 2 scenarios? Why MUST mafia-Harry know whether or not it is safe to fake-claim something?


This does bring up a point, though. If I've mixed up my timeline then let me know.

MrTeach was a Harry and was modkilled for inactivity, and it wasn't until later than Laarz claimed he got an ability N1. Perhaps he's being honest (I think he is), or it is as your predict, Gory, and Laarz took a calculated risk in claiming a role (after me - though I don't remember how much later) he presumed MrTeach had, rather than one of the other Harrys.. Seems to gutsy in this case, but something to consider I think.

 

[Goryani]

I just thought of something else. Assuming we have a rotating hitman, then the next best bet for a block would be on a norman, next, iirc the hitmen so far (Harry, Ted and then Beth? In order of them entering?) Still, it may just be random which one delivers the kill.

This implies mafia didn't have a N1 kill (but then why start the game with the 24h twilight if there was no N1 kill possible?). This implies Ted was the hitman on N3 despite the kill flavor (glowing green squid and/or the thing that brushed the water past Beth's legs - Norman's snakes?).

 

[pharphis]

Hmm, I guess that idea doesn't really hold then. I would have to agree that their hitman is probably random, or they might choose who they want, but Sath did say most things are random.

 

[MartinLong]

This implies mafia didn't have a N1 kill (but then why start the game with the 24h twilight if there was no N1 kill possible?). This implies Ted was the hitman on N3 despite the kill flavor (glowing green squid and/or the thing that brushed the water past Beth's legs - Norman's snakes?).

We know that the role are random, not everyone gets them each night. So,
Towns options:
Role, Nothing

Mafia options:
Role, Hitman, Nothing

It could be that the dice rolled in the favour of 'nothing' N1, so there was no mafia hitman.

Sounds somewhat far fetched, I know, not allowing the mafia a chance to get a kill each night, but it's what I came up with.

 

[Goryani]

I disagree. To me the above statement by Sathoris, precisely suggests additional recruitment. "now complete" means that they were incomplete before, and "before" is when Norman entered the Sphere. That is why I ended up tracking Caluin Graye, as none of the Normans were out of the question anymore. Zokar was the other choice out of the claimed Normans but it is a crapshoot. Had Sathoris not mentioned that line about the complete Mafia, I would have ended up choosing one of the other characters.

Sathoris' words are valid for several interpretations of the game setup: recruitment, delayed activation, algorithmically generated and more. I also notice that your words here are also valid for several interpretations of game setup. In particular, you could be describing delayed activation just as easily as recruitment. When talking of recruitment, I look for two things in particular. Who is the recruiter - aka, which player(s) decide who is recruited? When was a particular recruit recruited - aka, when did their alignment/wincon/role change? What if all mafia start the game as mafia but are powerless and can't communicate with each other. Upon entering the sphere, those mafia activate. They gain the ability to NK and they gain the ability to night talk with other mafioso who entered the sphere. The order in which mafia enter the sphere are probably decided by the RNG but the names have already been decided (also by the RNG at the start of the game). I wouldn't call this scenario recruitment because the two points I mentioned above seem to be missing. I would call it delayed activation.

preview edit: Sorry for the formatting. It looks like preview is stripping out all paragraphs/formatting and I can't seem to fix it.

 

[Caluin Graye]

How does being tracked confirm a player as Town? That player could be Vanilla Mafia.

It is very strange that you made this post because if Zokar did not track a Norman and you did not, then that leaves myself as the last claimed Norman - hence by process of elimination, you had a good idea that I was the tracker.

Actually, I was assuming that Normans were cops when I made that post.

 

[Zokar1]

I am very suspicious of a claimed roleblock and a no-death Night preceding it. Could it be that Goryani was not targeted and Jcakes' save did not matter but rather Valhauros blocked TheFranklin who is a Mafia Beth? A possiblility that I am not completely willing to dismiss.

thefranklin is a claimed Harry not a Beth, so unless you're suggesting that thefranklin is lying about his role, seems you might want to revisit your theory.

You seem very eager to point out that being tracked absolves a player from being Mafia. Even though you did not do anything last night, I am inclined to push for your lynch right now.

I know that I am not Mafia so either you or Zokar are Scum if the theory of one of each char being mafia holds true and there are no other Normans hiding.

I was only ever so slightly irked when:

I hate this post. It just screams as if a scum is trying to get another Norman to reveal information prematurely.

except everybody knew that Norman was going to get an ability, most of us assumed it would be an informative role and assumed that eventually sometime today it would be posted, so why the hatred? why the attitude? It was going to happen today anyway... unless he's trying to stall for time perhaps? I'm not sure.

In my eyes, if there are really only 3 Normans left (and I think this to be the case), I know I'm not mafioso and so I have to assume either CG or Solar is. This leaves me with the question: how likely is it that scum get these powers? If they don't, then if all three of us survive the next day and somebody besides Solar gets a power, then the other one is clearly scum. However, if we lynch the one who didn't get powers and he turns up town, then we know that scum get powers as well and that puts into question the theory that there is a Harry in hiding. Of course, as unlikely as it may be, we may end up lynching all of the Normans... what happens if none of us are scum?

Oh, and why are all Teds still alive?... /boggle We have 1 dead Beth 1 dead Harry 3 dead Normans and all Teds alive and kicking. Just a random observation.

 

[MartinLong]

Oh, and why are all Teds still alive?... /boggle We have 1 dead Beth 1 dead Harry 3 dead Normans and all Teds alive and kicking. Just a random observation.

To correct this...

1 dead Harry - modkilled.
3 dead Normans - 2 were Lynched.

Technically, the harry's are also all alive and kicking.

 

[Zokar1]

This is what I have:

3 Norman - 2 lynches and 1 NK
1 Harry - Mod Killed
1 Beth - 1 NK
0 Ted

Norman: (6/3)
Zokar
CG
Kestegs - L D2 T
Solar Ice
ThunderCat - L D3 T
OMGWTFBBQPWNED - NK N2 T


Harry: (5/4)
pharhpis
Laarz
thefranklin
Mr. Teach - MODK T
Valhauros


Beth: (6/5)
MartinLong
Gwaihir
coju - NK N3 T
Pyro
Jcakes
pancakeman


Ted: (4)
Moar
Goryani
Malevolent
Flubbucket

 

[Goryani]

I am very suspicious of a claimed roleblock and a no-death Night preceding it. Could it be that Goryani was not targeted and Jcakes' save did not matter but rather Valhauros blocked TheFranklin who is a Mafia Beth? A possiblility that I am not completely willing to dismiss.

What do you think about not-really-Harry thefranklin faking a so-far-only-Harry-has-it roleblock? That would be a pretty epic fake claim.

 

[Goryani]

Why are these the only 2 scenarios? Why MUST mafia-Harry know whether or not it is safe to fake-claim something?

A mafia-Harry fake claiming a roleblock the same night a town-Harry claims a roleblock will throw up giant red flags. Two roleblocks the same night hasn't happened yet. Two of any ability the same night hasn't happened yet. It's a pretty good indication one is lying.