Mafia Game: Cheers/Frasier Theme

[Pyrotechnician1]

Keep in mind that Malevolent was proven innocent by our cop.

Supposive cop, reminder that we already have a cop dead from Night 1, I'm not completely sold on there being two cops but we will know for sure after today.

Just so everyone knows, you are aware of the vote numbers, but you instead think mafia will voluntarily vote one of their own, on D1 or D2, just so they look townie.

I know that I'm aware of the vote numbers, but why would the mafia be unwilling to vote a neutral (omg) if it will help them look a little more town then scum, especially in early game.

Yes. Look toward vote 2 voters to find scum. A LOT of scum. Possibly all of them, but there may still be 1 or 2 scum not on that list.


Now that's dangerous thinking. What if ML isn't sane? How many votes are on me now and NO ONE bothers to think about that possibility?

Why didn't you voice this possiblitiy in the thread earlier?

Be glad TC looked over my rules. I wanted to mod kill those who continually screwed up voting.

Well that would have cut the numbers down quite a bit, might have gotten that award for most modkills in a game and steal TC's thunder.

can we lynch OMG today as well for the love of god.

coju
nulio
frozzzen
pancakeman
MartinLong
Jcakes
noodle
pyro
moar
Solar ice

are all yet to cast a vote2

more than a few scum suspects in there

Am I allowed to go out on a saturday night and then sleep in on a Sunday morning? Do I have your permission? Oh, great thanks! :unimpressed:

Looks like I was wrong about Martin. I was indeed really sure that he was scum. Got some rereading to do I guess.

Vote 1: Goryani
Vote 2: omgwtfbbqpwned

I'm not so sure yet, although a one for one trade does not usually make sense for the mafia so I'm leaning more toward Martin likely not being scum.

I'd say omg was better than Autti, flubbucket, frozzzen, Laarz, Loz, Noodle and nulio. And equal or close to equal with coju, Gwaihir, Jcakes, Malevolent, pcm and me. Thirteen out of twenty two players. CG and Pyro I'd rank as just a little bit ahead of the last group.

---
And now to try to catch up with what has been posted today.

Great, so with your analysis we'll have this one wrapped up in no time. I better step up my game though, I need to be better than CG.

Correction: It took a very long time before I said so out loud in the thread.

So why would you think of it but not voice that opinion? Especially when your the one on the block?

 

[pancakeman]

Bolded portion above, yes we need to find out, but if someone else did it for him then it would be very representative of the laywer role in the last game and we would not want to out that person and his ability at this point because we don't want to risk another power role. Its best if whoever may have this ability keep that to themselves for the time.

I didn't know of the lawyer role, it does indeed sound like a power role and one that should be kept alive. In that case, disregard what I said and by all means STAY ALIVE! The only problem is that now, if there is a lawyer and if they did keep ML alive, we will not be able to get a reason for their intervention without risking their life. I couldn't find lawyer on mafiascum, so if somebody could explain the role a little bit that would be awesome.
In that case, we still have the same objectives for the day: Lynch Gory, which has already been locked, and take care of omg, which has not. We are rapidly approaching the point where a non-vote for omg is looking super-scummy indeed. So far the mechanics of V2 have been a distraction used to great effect, but the point is that we have lost 4 good townies, and even if Gory is successfully lynched and flips town we may well lose another townie to the SK. omg is our best lead to the SK now, with nulio another possibility.

 

[Caluin Graye]

I have seen cases where lynching scum fails (iirc it was Leopold Stotch in one community game where she went all crazy, forced lynched and survived) and just look at his claim:
1. after lock
2. does not want to share info
3. didn't even inspect himself first night so we don't even know if he is sane, insane, random or real cop
4. claimed cop after Laarz asked him if it's time to claim Cop - considering real cop is dead it wouldn't be bad idea for scum to claim cop and live couple more days
5. all above and more

This here is you trying to cast suspicion on ML. I.E., discrediting the claimed cop. Specifically point #3. You may or may not be doing it on purpose. I tend to lean towards purposeful.

Subtly hinting lawyer type role is also just weak attempt to put another stain on me cause I said it would be better for that person not to come out due to its potential usefulness. Nothing to see, go on.

If you actually did not want the presumed lawyer to speak up, then you should not have even mentioned it in the first place. The very fact that you mentioned them coming forward, even speaking in the negative, plants the idea in their head that maybe they should.

Call into question anyone voting for someone with a guilty result on them? Seriously? Where. Quote me, find that statement.

K. Did it once, but here it is again.

What struck me odd, is how everyone accepted Martin's claim as set in stone. I for one don't trust him. At all.

This, to me, translates to - "You believe Martin's claim, so you're voting for his guilty result." This can be translated to - "If you did not believe Martin's claim, then you would not vote for his guilty result."

I'm willing to accept that my translation of that may differ from other people's.

And last, your feeling of me dodging questions is off, as no questions have been directed at me. Only thing worth mentioning is Autti questioning why I didn't vote for OMG today (and I did) so I didn't feel obligated to respond.

Note that it was a specific question that I called you on dodging, which you have now just answered. For which I thank you.

See frozzen's post above for some very good reasons not to trust ML. The only one that confuses me is number 3, about investigating himself. Is that normal cop behavior? I do not have the most experience in these things.

It used to be, but that's changed. Moderators have realized that it's pointless to have a sanity change that be easily beaten on the first investigation, so any moderator worth their salt will always return an innocent result on a self-investigation, regardless of the sanity. Non-sane cops are fairly rare as well.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Probably one of the more important questions of the day, although since Martin says he doesn't know we wouldn't want to expose who did it unless it was only a one shot and they have no other abilities.

I disagree with the bolded potion - let the mafia keep guessing if another lynch might fail in the future.

 

[pharphis]

I'm locked and can't avoid that. My lynch shouldn't be avoided even if it could. Determining my honesty before the end of the day can't happen without exposing another power role. I don't want that to happen. There are over 30 hours left in the day. I see no need to rush things.

Your response plays on the idea that you started the day locked, which is never true, and is what I've been getting at. Is their something I'm completely missing here or are you just avoiding answering me straight?

 

[Caluin Graye]

I couldn't find lawyer on mafiascum, so if somebody could explain the role a little bit that would be awesome.

Lawyer is the D2 name for the role, since that's what the character was in the SP game. The original role, the one the lawyer was based off, is called the Governor.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Governor

 

[pharphis]

I didn't know of the lawyer role, it does indeed sound like a power role and one that should be kept alive. In that case, disregard what I said and by all means STAY ALIVE! The only problem is that now, if there is a lawyer and if they did keep ML alive, we will not be able to get a reason for their intervention without risking their life. I couldn't find lawyer on mafiascum, so if somebody could explain the role a little bit that would be awesome.
In that case, we still have the same objectives for the day: Lynch Gory, which has already been locked, and take care of omg, which has not. We are rapidly approaching the point where a non-vote for omg is looking super-scummy indeed. So far the mechanics of V2 have been a distraction used to great effect, but the point is that we have lost 4 good townies, and even if Gory is successfully lynched and flips town we may well lose another townie to the SK. omg is our best lead to the SK now, with nulio another possibility.

IIRC, Sathoris was Lawyer in the SP game, and his role went like this;

Every 3 days you can choose to prevent a lynch, with a 50% chance of it working (he did this on himself and saved himself), and if it DOES work, then you can place 2 votes the following day.

Actually, this raises a question and something that the lawyer (if there is one) should consider (at the risk of revealing themselves, of course). Assuming the role follows the same rules, do you get 2x vote 1 and vote 2? If there's a lawyer I highly suggest they ask Thy if they don't already know, and this would be an EXCELLENT way to get omg at the end of the day if we're 1 vote short.

 

[Goryani]

See frozzen's post above for some very good reasons not to trust ML. The only one that confuses me is number 3, about investigating himself. Is that normal cop behavior? I do not have the most experience in these things.

Some think so but I disagree. I don't ever investigate myself as cop and I'm pretty suspicious of those who do.

 

[Goryani]

In the SP game several people said it was NOT common behaviour to investigate yourself.
Statistically, I think the most sensible thing to do is never investigate yourself, as from the lynches you obtain you can determine whether or not you are sane. 1 read on self = 1 less read on another player, meaning an extra day of waiting before you investigate someone scummy.

Not only this, but games with an insane cop tend to either have many cops (multiple cops make it easier to figure out each others' alignments) or have a special rule that messes up self investigation.

 

[Moar]

First: My concentration is not great today. Please do not hold that against me.

Second: I do not trust Martin 100%. I am usually quite good to judge people, so having missed 100% leaves me wondering. That said, yes, he can be who he claims he is. The lynch of Gory will help to determine what's going on. Until that I will base my argumentation on that Martin is the alignment cop he claims.

I used some time today to google mafia roles. And what could prevent a lynch.

Lawyer: Usually a mafia role who can turn one mafia look town on investigation. But also found that it could be a role that can send in one player to save from lynch in the night. If that's the case, then the lawyer must have decided to protect Martin N1 before he drew fire (yes, my fire). I don't know why that would be obvious. The SP game had a lawyer that didn't act at night I think. That would make sense in our scenario since Martin claimed cop and the lawyer could believe it. I find day-lawyer more believable than night-lawyer.

TC had a one shot lynch immunity in his last game for the godfather.

Jailkeeper: As far as I understood that's a roleblock role which saves also. So if FoE had targeted Martin that night, he would not have been able to get an investigation report unless FoE died before using his ability. So I guess he didn't go for Martin hoping that the doc did that. Understandable as one wouldn't want to roleblock a cop.

Rabble Rouser: I found that on the wiki. Might explain why we have two lynches? If it is so, then we better really hurry to get omg lynched with vote 2.

Ok, that was much rambling. Short version: Yes, I belive Gory to be scum, OMG to best be removed from the game and am really wondering what Thyiad has actually put into the game.

 

[pharphis]

Some think so but I disagree. I don't ever investigate myself as cop and I'm pretty suspicious of those who do.

It does come across to me as just an attempt at not having to point any fingers at others, making the claim likely to last longer, too. Also giving the town more people to point fingers at since they didn't confirm anyone to be innocent.

 

[frozzzen1]

Okay then. I see some points and I'll keep them in mind for future. I don't see things the way of seasoned mafia player.
Although I think you were reading too deep into some things I said :/

 

[coju]

Be glad TC looked over my rules. I wanted to mod kill those who continually screwed up voting.

Mod's a Mod!

I've only made it to 526, but has ML been confirmed as [highlight]SANE[/highlight] before goryani gets locked?

 

[pharphis]

Mod's a Mod!

I've only made it to 526, but has ML been confirmed as [highlight]SANE[/highlight] before goryani gets locked?

Some people have casted doubt (we all should, of course), but no one has actually outright claimed ML to be wrong, including Gory himself.

 

[Goryani]

I know that I'm aware of the vote numbers, but why would the mafia be unwilling to vote a neutral (omg) if it will help them look a little more town then scum, especially in early game.

This just baffles me. How can lynching neutrals simply because they claim neutral look townie?

Why didn't you voice this possiblitiy in the thread earlier?

Which possibilitiy? There were two in the quote you posted. I guess I'll answer for both. As for the vote 2 stuff: I did, though I guess I didn't use enough words and numbers and questions. As for the insane cop stuff: Unfortunately, I was pretty close to lock before I realized I had votes. I was still reading and replying to the end of day stuff yesterday. I even said so when I saw thefranklin's comment. I just assumed the lock wouldn't occur until I had a chance to respond. I was wrong.

 

[Solar Ice]

Hmm.. Martin is claiming a guilty result on Goryani, should we go with vote1 or vote2 for him? I expect since Eddy was mentioned in last night's story that Martin is who he said he is.

Yes, let us use vote 2 on Goryani...It will give you a chance to save your scumbuddy. You are painfully obvious, scum.

I believe that OMG could be an asset to the town, if he is active in the game. I see no reason for o.w.b.p. (omgwt...) being able to post helpful posts. If o.w.b.p. posts drivel, then vote2 o.w.b.p. Just because owbp came out and claimed, doesn't mean it wouldn't work. Someone already stated that owbp did that last game, and is doing it this game.

The Vote 2 was stated (although I know it can be used for anything) as being a way to get rid of players not participating. A way to get rid of lurkers, right? A rid to get rid of people the town wastes 3 days on lynching the lurkers. This is supposed to be a light-hearted game. Let omgwtfbbqpwnd's crazyness work for once. Why not? I personally enjoy the flavor he brings to the game.

Excellent. You are supporting the non-lynching of a claimed Neutral, that stated himself that he would turn on the Town is a heartbeat if it suited him. You are using the theme of the game to justify his continued and detrimental presence in the game as well as to imply that people should relax and take it easy. Also, way to turn attention on OMG, instead of focusing on finding Goryani's buddies.

Enough for me.

Of course it is. The scum have to bus him now, don't they?

Okay, this is not going well. We need to get on top of this, and we need to do it fast. I agree with Cal, I think first priority should be sorting out the missed lynching of omg. That should start with some answers. I understand there were reservations, but we had a chance for two lynches and instead we got none.

Not going well? There is a Guilty result on a player and it is not going well?

Secondly, we need to find out how ML avoided that lynch, and whether he did it or someone did it for him. mafiascum says Jailkeeper can block any form of kill, but our Jailkeeper (Fred) didn't seem very sympathetic to ML, so I can't see why he would protect him. So if anyone knows any role that can explain this?
I think we also need to examine those that were attacking kesty so vigorously, too. Not necessarily those who were suspicious, but those that were sure.

Needing to find out who and how the lynch was stopped? Why? So you could NK that person as well?

Why would FoE NOT protect MartinLong, the belatedly claimed Cop? ML is one of the few chances the Town has of finding a Scum and by protecting him, we gain a Cop verdict. Do you just not get that or are you just trying hard to contribute to the discussion?

Your activity in this game has been limited to fishing for roles. Welcome to my Scum list.

I can't help but notice you don't have a vote for the "right decision."

Up until almost to the end of Yesterday, kestegs was my top scum suspect.

Yeah. No. What kind of game design requires rescuing from the abyss after the very first night? This ought to be good.

The kind that has one Cop Nk'd N1 and the other lynched D2.

Enough has been focused on you today. Time for us to focus on your scumbuddies.

While I agree his play was weird, as I've heard in several games, doubting the cop without good reason is an instant sign of scumminess. Yes, it seems somewhat convenient, but what a few have stated (like Gory just did, though I suppose you didn't read the SP game) there could be another role that saved him, like the Lawyer in the SP game.

Aside from his weird behaviour and random surviving, there is no reason to doubt him, and I think as a town the best thing to do is assume he is as he claims until one of his results doesn't match up. He's confirmed both a townie and a mafia member, so it's not like he didn't give us a quick way to check.

@Gory,
If mafia know there is an SK (and they should by now, shouldn't they?) they would want to lynch omg as well.

Absolutely this.

Several are coming out in full force, casting doubt on ML. Not unexpected from the Mafia. When Goryani flips these people will need to be seriously looked at.

Yes. Look toward vote 2 voters to find scum. A LOT of scum. Possibly all of them, but there may still be 1 or 2 scum not on that list.

While it is not impossible, the fact that it is coming from you makes me believe otherwise. WIFOM?

Just in case:
Vote 1: Goryani

Trying hard not too stand out, much? I just got home now, so RL is an excuse for my lack of posting/voting Today. You on the other hand posted several times earlier, yet did not vote for Goryani before, while voting Omg..

Since the Goryani has been locked already,

Vote 2: omgwtfbbqpwned

 

[Goryani]

I couldn't find lawyer on mafiascum, so if somebody could explain the role a little bit that would be awesome.

I think it's called governor or mayor in the wiki.

In that case, we still have the same objectives for the day: Lynch Gory, which has already been locked, and take care of omg, which has not. We are rapidly approaching the point where a non-vote for omg is looking super-scummy indeed. So far the mechanics of V2 have been a distraction used to great effect, but the point is that we have lost 4 good townies, and even if Gory is successfully lynched and flips town we may well lose another townie to the SK. omg is our best lead to the SK now, with nulio another possibility.

Jackpot. You don't think I'm mafia and assume I must be the SK. Hello mafia.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

You know, I wouldn't be too surprised that omg is SK, given we are receiving 2 deaths/night so far and he would come us as neutral under investigation, as he would as a survivor.

I do not have the divine gift of foresight, if that's what you're suggesting. If you think lynching me is going to get rid of your secondary NKer problems, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Secondly, we need to find out how ML avoided that lynch, and whether he did it or someone did it for him. mafiascum says Jailkeeper can block any form of kill, but our Jailkeeper (Fred) didn't seem very sympathetic to ML, so I can't see why he would protect him. So if anyone knows any role that can explain this?

No, we (and by we, I mean the town) really don't. You can speculate as much as you want, it doesn't affect the fact that the town's alignment cop was saved for a lynch. Finding out the mechanic of how he was saved brings nothing to the table. Whoever saved ML - if they want to come out, they will come out and reveal. For the mean time, it's better to have whoever hidden in the dark. Or I suppose ML has a one time lynch protection ability or something along those lines, which of course, will make him mafia. We'll see soon enough how Goryani flips anyways.

If you want me to throw my guess at it: My knowledge of jailkeepers is that they only operate at night, and only protect from NKs. Therefore it was some sort of lawyer (other aliases come to mind) variant that either triggered it during the day with a phrase or via PM to Thyiad. It doesn't matter.

I think we also need to examine those that were attacking kesty so vigorously, too. Not necessarily those who were suspicious, but those that were sure.

kestegs is an inherently scummy player. I'm sure plenty of town players jumped on his bandwagon too. However, I do agree, and the only name that sticks out atm is Solar Ice, who I believe was on kesteg's case quite vigorously.

If he comes back as town, ML needs to get a serious look.

Agreed with the rest of your post as well, other than "omg has to go". If Goryani does turn up scum (which I believe is quite likely at the moment), all's fine. If he turns up town, I wouldn't even give ML the time of the day tomorrow. String him up, move on.

Cut out.

A bit scummy imho. I hate to say this, but you seemed to be completely in line with Gory on D1. Now that Gory's locked, you hamper ML's credibility before Gory's flip (as if a last effort to defend Gory), and you're seemingly jumping on my bandwagon to fit in (to perhaps distinguish yourself from Gory).

P.S. <3/miss you too. You're never on IRC. Busy with exams? :<

---

My top bets for scum at the moment are frozzzen and Solar Ice. The only person I personally have checked off with a high probability of flipping town so far is Moar. If I have time later before day closes, I'll be happy to give a more thorough explanation (I did type a paragraph or two and saved it on Word.doc), but alas I have to be off to work now.

End note: blah blah blah numbers. Relax a bit town, the game isn't that tight yet. SK needs to be actively hunting mafia too - if (s)he keeps hitting townies, (s)he's gonna be very screwed late game. You can probably expect a mafia or two being NKed over the next few nights. And with a game this size, I'm sure Thyiad littered it with more than just two neutrals. There's a good chance mafia will hit neutrals off too.

Lastly, @ML: it's always nice to get an investigation on players with consistent play styles (ex. Malevolent usually seems scummy regardless of what role he gets, where CG tends to lean towards town regardless of what role he gets). If you are a sane alignment cop, I'd say go for CG tonight. At the moment I'm sure he's at the very bottom of your list, and he probably is town, but it would suck for someone like him to coast by all game. I think such players are usually the biggest threats.

Note to self: you stopped reading at post 554. Resume reading at post 554 later on.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Oh, and I believe I am L-1 from a V2 system at the moment. I hope this clears me from being a VI, as I could easily just hammer myself in.

And just to correct an earlier post.

I am a Survivor, Neutral, with no abilities. I’m not sure how much I can reveal before Thyiad offs me, but I’ll answer any questions to the best of my abilities.

For the first time ever in a mafia game, I’m 100% honest.

TL;DR: DON'T KILL ME GIEB FREE WIN

I do have an ability. And I was 99% honest. ;P

Either the first or last person to lynch me dies along with me. Al loves his company. <3 I won't reveal the entire mechanic. Desperate lying attempt to save myself and proceed to achieve my sweet sweet wincon? Or clever ace in my sleeve to avoid a potential vigilante as long as possible? You decide. :tongue:

 

[pharphis]

Agreed with the rest of your post as well, other than "omg has to go". If Goryani does turn up scum (which I believe is quite likely at the moment), all's fine. If he turns up town, I wouldn't even give ML the time of the day tomorrow. String him up, move on.

You say you wouldn't even give ML the chance. Does that mean you're ignoring the possibility of there being a bus driver? I've only been in 2 other games, but a bus driver has been in both, I think. Still, if a bus driver had switched Gory with someone, then no doubt he would have admitted to it if he didn't think Gory was scum.