1.13 RoF Superchest Patterns

Grape said:
To continue this a little longer, I can't sometimes help but think what the heck I'm doing when I'm trying to make some of my target running more and more efficient. Cause in the end I feel that playing some video game is not maybe the most "efficient" thing I could be doing on that moment. ;)
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I mean the same basic tenant works in this case, too. When we accept that we need fun in our lives (which we do) then it just comes down to truthfully breaking down what you're looking for out of a day or week or month and executing a plan that moves towards that goal. As the number of things you need to get done in a day goes up, the amount of time you have to play games may go down, but because including fun activities is a good habit, it is overall a positive to budget time for them. And going through and actually deciding what you need to get done makes it way less likely that you'll spend 10 hours playing the game instead of doing whatever work you need to get done. Although I'm not saying it'll necessarily stop you from spending 3 hours when you really should've stopped at two, and that kind of thing.

Though @maareek being knwon as quite an essayist is not maybe news for you anymore. :)
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It's true. Grip and I both tend to write super long posts, though for different reasons. For him it's because he has a ton of knowledge and it just takes a lot of words and time to express that wealth in a meaningful way. For me it's because my mechanical keyboard sounds delightful and I love to hear it clang. ;p
 
Okay finally a real contribution to this thread,

I decided to start the project 5K LK runs with ROF patterns at players 5/6! I should rather call it I simmulate 15K ROF runs in the most efficient way. As I don't wan't to use a run calculator I decided to measure the amount of runs I make with the number of keys I buy. Yes the character has 8191 life so everybody can SEE it is a test character, no spoilers here. /disclaimer everything will be deleted and items won't be traded at the SPF communtiy. I'll post screenshots from Ist+ and I post a table after every status post when new patterns have been found.

Status: Keys used 250/7500

Result today: 3 new patterns
3 times Pul, -.- epic luck Q_Q

Players 5/6
Code: 
Rune     Item #1          Item #2          Item #3          Item #4           Finder
Pul #1   Battle Axe       Flanged Mace     Lrg Siege Bow    Light XBow        Treeharl
Pul #2   Cleaver          Long Battle Bow  Tusk Sword                         Treeharl *LK
Pul #3   Gargoyle Head                                                        Treeharl *LK
Pul #4   Cleaver          Flail            Gauntlets        3 others          Treeharl *LK
---
Gul #1   Circlet          Pilum            Small Charm      -                 Grisu
Gul #2   Axe              Bone Knife       Full Helm        2 others          Pb_pal
---
Lo #1    Breast Plate     Phase Blade      Plated Belt      2 others          Pb_pal
---
Jah #1   Belt              Poignard                                           Carawolk
 
Some people take fun really seriously and I think they should :)

I am commited to RoF at p5/6 now and I will do LK --> RoF runs at p5/6 like crazy until start of the MFO, even if @maareek probably made a good point stating that I would have more chance to find or grind a Ber rune on LK p7.

So Today I did what feels like 500 LK/RoF runs and I got nothing from RoF. I don't have a right to complain and quite frankly if there is an RNG god he shouldn't let me find anything above Ohm for at least a week :p.
But I am satisfied with LK p5, gave me a Vex and an Ist (picked up the rune before SC by accident). So I'll continue that, I don't know if there still is an active LK table somewhere on this forum but anyway...

back to it :D

Edit: I run RoF with my Infinity merc and I was wondering since there are these corpse eating scumbags crawling around sometimes is there a risk my merc gets eaten when killed ? And if it happens is the gear lost for good ?
If it is, it's twisted.

alright that's enough for today.
confirming Pul#4 though.
 
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Carawolk said:
Edit: I run RoF with my Infinity merc and I was wondering since there are these corpse eating scumbags crawling around sometimes is there a risk my merc gets eaten when killed ? And if it happens is the gear lost for good ?
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Not anymore. As far as I know the last patch that was an issue was 1.07. But back when that was an issue the gear would be gone for good, yes.
 
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Bad results:

Meh...
Confirmed Pul #3
New pattern #Ist 1
Edit: New pattern #Mal 1

Status: Keys used 500(+250)/7500

Players 5/6
Code: 
Rune     Item #1          Item #2          Item #3          Item #4           Finder
Pul #1   Battle Axe       Flanged Mace     Lrg Siege Bow    Light XBow        Treeharl
Pul #2   Cleaver          Long Battle Bow  Tusk Sword                         Treeharl *LK
Pul #3   Gargoyle Head                                                        Treeharl *LK
Pul #4   Cleaver          Flail            Gauntlets        3 others          Treeharl *LK
---
Mal #1   Breast Plate     Field Plate      Halberd          2 others          Treeharl *LK
---
Ist #1   Arbalest         Circlet          Dusk Shroud      6 others          Treeharl *LK
---
Gul #1   Circlet          Pilum            Small Charm      -                 Grisu
Gul #2   Axe              Bone Knife       Full Helm        2 others          Pb_pal
---
Lo #1    Breast Plate     Phase Blade      Plated Belt      2 others          Pb_pal
---
Jah #1   Belt              Poignard                                           Carawolk

Items (after picking up the gold):
View attachment 3514
 
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I did some more RoF runs as well. On /p5 because I'm jealous of that Jah and I want one too :cool:.

After about 30 runs, so 70 in total, I already found my first qualifier:

View attachment 3519
.
Nothing too fancy, but still a good start :). Also a new pattern for /p56 it seems. If I want to add it to the table, which items go with it? Is it the first 4 in alphabetical order?

Did 184 runs in total, 20 seconds on average per run because I still kill things from time to time to get to the chests. Trying to increase my speed. I should have time to do a lot more today.
 
yeah you should put all the items you think or remember coming out of the chest along with the rune in alphabetical order. I'll be doing runs also today :) Good luck !

Edit: what timezone are you in ? is it true the MFO starts in 5 hours ?
 
Ok, thanks. I'm afraid it dropped on one of those occasions where I also did some killing, so I'm not sure wich items dropped from the chest I'm afraid :(. Any way to determine that? How many magic items can drop from a superchest?

As for the MFO ... depends on your time zone. For me it only starts in a bit over 10 hours.

Edit: o yes, 180 more runs ... nothing at all.

Edit 2: removed the table for now, since I'm not sure about the items that dropped with the Ist. O yes, and something I should have added the first time: since I was so happy to get a good rune so fast, I accidentally picked up the Ist before realizing that I should have taken a screenshot because of this thread. So I dropped it again to be able to take a picture, but as a consequence it's placement can seem odd.
 
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Another thing I want to mention here. I feel rather torn about what @Treeharl is doing by altering the game files so that he can do RoF superchests in LK. Don't get me wrong, if the rest is ok with it, so be it. But I'd love to have @Thyiad giving this green light first to know for sure if it's ok. That's actually what Treeharl asked for himself initially, so I'm not sure why he proceeded afterwords without Thyiad's confirmation.

What's my problem with Treeharl's approach? Well, he is changing the game files to begin with. I thought that wasn't allowed in the SPF. Moreover he is using a test character with over 8000 life. Combined with the fact that he is changing the game files in such a way that he can do RoF superchests in LK, it means he can do them a lot faster. I wouldn't say it's the same as botting, because it isn't, but the principle is the same: the game gets altered in a way that's faster and safer than what would normally be possible in the game. For me that's a no-go.

Now I know that Treeharl doesn't do this to get rich, swim in HRs, ..., but to help determine the patterns we are all trying to figure out. Thing is, while I want to figure out these patterns as well, it shouldn't happen in a way normally not possible in the game. If all we want is to find these patterns as fast as possible, we might as well be botting to find them out. We don't want to find them as fast as possible, they are another goal to work towards in Diablo. And one of the few goals left probably for some D2 veterans here. By doing what he does, Treeharl is doing it a lot faster and safer, finding the patterns much faster, as a consequence leaving a lot less patterns for us to discover.

Again, because I can't emphasis this enough, I have nothing against Treeharl himself, and I can see why his mere enthusiasm to help us out finding the patterns is inspiring him to do it this way. I just don't agree with the method he is using. I realize it's a thin line though, so if Thyiad is ok with this, I definitely rest my case.
 
I was under the impression that Thyiad had given him permission to do so. If so, maybe a thread dedicated to the analysis of the data would be an option? That way this thread would remain just for patterns discovered using the "vanilla" game and "true gameplay", so to speak.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for understanding the code of the situation, and all that jazz. I just think it would be cleaner to have the two seperated into different threads. Would you be alright with that @Treeharl?
 
Got dry ice burns on my mousing hand, so I might be out of commission for the weekend.

I'm personally OK with Treeharl hunting with his mod, but would be a lot happier if people would update all the tables so things aren't getting scattered all over the place. While he has the advantage of speed, he doesn't get to keep anything. I wouldn't pay for that trade off personally.
 
@Pb_pal If I understood you correctly, you mean I should post my data analysis posts in a different thread. With the expected patterns etc. Yes that is alright no problem.

Still my lastest posts aren't about data analysing, they are just about getting as much patterns in the shortest amount of time and as such they are regular ROF patterns. The patterns I hit are legit and appear 100% the same as confirmed three times in a row on this thread. The fact they drop in Lower Kurast doesn't change anything about the patterns or about the runs people make. It is about a quest of making 5K LK runs on players 5/6 (= 15000 ROF runs). I am just curious if we have 3 Jah patterns as I expect. I disagree however with äll patterns should be found with true vanilla gameplay as we need 35K runs to get 70% of the patterns which takes a hell alot of time. I also have Thyiads permission for doing this although I am not sure if you where hinting on this aspect.

The permission question was a bit different, I asked Thyiad if I could have her permission to use a legit FAM character for running LK with ROF patterns. She said "yes you can and you can post your findings here" but you "can't use the items on the SPF comunity". I then decided to make a test character so everybody could SEE I am testing p5/6 r rof screenshots.

@Brak the biggest advantage is I can actually see the rune drops. Yes I can make a LK run in 15 seconds on my hunting mod. On ROF nearly 25% of the items moves out of the screen, meaning you miss alot of items including HRs. I rather don't keep the HR instead of missing it. I also want to know if my maths are correct and as such I made a hunting mod. The only concequence is I can't keep the runes found, but there is always vanilla p7 LK for that. 2K runs and I have a Ber. Also should I just post all tables instead of p5/6?
 
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I will have to agree with Treeharl here. I have no objection since we now have two player settings to fill (players 7/8 and players 5/6). If we are to complete them before everyone gets bored, I don't mind if one of us is taking drugs to accelarate the whole thing.
Besides, I think confirming an already found pattern is just as exciting as finding one yourself. Creating a parallel thread just because the method is not 100% vanilla doesn't make much sense to me. And if he is motivated enough to search for runes without keeping any for himself, it's even more admirable.

Just imagine if we DO find out there are more Jah patterns on lower settings? How weird and cool would that be ? I doubt it personally but I like the effort nontheless.
 
I would like to say @T72on1 that I won't be swimming in the hr's I found because they aren't FAM and they just get deleted with the character aswell. The character 8191 lifepool is basically a flag so you can SEE it is a test character. I won't be able to keep any of the runes and as such I run for filling my own curiosity instead of finding hrs. Also if I want to swin in the hr's I would be running vanilla LK p 7/8. 5K runs and 5 Surs and 2 Bers later.... But that is boring, yes I can keep the runes that way but it does nothing for the comunity. Also I got a pm from Thyiad, but I didn't post that here as PM's are meant not to be shared.

Also JJscud did something simmilar back in 2010 with even more questionable changes and software. I am doing everything by hand!

@Brak will do so on the next post. My appologies!
 
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Alright well since Thy already gave her consent for this information to be released, I see no reason to hold it back.

I know jjscud had the same sort of dilemma happen when he first simulated all the RoF and LK patterns back before 1.13. The consensus was to release his information then (despite he himself being torn on it), and so I think we should keep the same precedent here.

The reality is, we are doing this all for information purposes. Sure it takes away some of the "discovery" feeling of being the first to find a pattern for a certain rune, but I think the information gained from this outweighs that downside. Knowing if it is possible to get a Jah/Cham and how many patterns there are for them is very valuable information, and could be an invaluable resource to some players (hence the reason for this thread existing).

The only change I might be tempted to do in terms of the simulation would be to list how many patterns there are for each rune, instead of laying out the whole pattern. For example, keeping a seperate table listing how MANY patterns for each are available and have been confirmed for each /psetting, but leaving the actual patterns table for runes found while doing "vanilla" (ie, non simulated or code-changed) runs. We could do that in this thread as well, just add another table on top labelled "Confirmed Patterns", or something of the like. it wouldn't have to be complicated, just a column for what setting, what rune, and how many patterns.

Code: 
/p setting    Rune    #Patterns
1-2             X          #
1-2             Y          #
--
3-4
--
5-6
--
7-8

Does that make sense? What do people think of doing it that way? Or does that just make it way too confusing?
 
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Treeharl said:
On ROF nearly 25% of the items moves out of the screen, meaning you miss alot of items including HRs.
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Concerning that issue: if you keep pressing alt while the chest is spitting it's content. Will you always see the rune pass on screen or is there still a chance to miss it completely ? I don't mean when all the content is on the ground but while the content is unloading.
And if this is an issue. Is there a way (other than picking every object) to garanty you will see this rune ?
 
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