Etdlahq Memorial Bar - your shelter from forum crashes

Seems like the forums are working for me again. I could reach them, but did not see any changes all weekend. Yesterday at work i couldn't even reach it. And the post i made yesterday after work got eaten it seems.

Post of yesterday summarised: We got a new coffee machine at work and it sucks.

Maybe they got the wrong house.

Obviously. They were looking for Nix' house.

I knew in advance it would disappoint me and it did. It was laced with loaded questions painting women (and only women) as great victims in the western world of oppression by men (and only men). It even had questions like "Sometimes I feel like I need to be around people who share my feminist ideals" which I can only imagine alludes to the "safe space" attitudes I've noticed come to attention at colleges/universities when people are so threatened by ideas (yes, ideas!) that they need to be coddled.

So how feminist are you? :p

One question that gave me a good laugh was (paraphrased) "I think things were better in the 1950s when women were housewives and their husbands supported them".
Uh, who in their right mind thinks things people were better off when medicine, education and just about everything was worse in the 1950s?

The 50's? That's for a large portion still happening. Especially in the Netherlands where most women work parttime. Men work fulltime for household. Women work parttime to socialize a bit and generate some cash so they can do fun stuff on their days off.

I saw this the other day, I thought you might like it.


I am not anti-feminism at all, but the cartoon does sum up some modern feminists.

Over here there's even debates going on about getting quota's. Apparently there should be minimal like 30% women in the boards of big compagnies. Which basically means men would be discriminated. Besides that it's weird that this only should go for board rooms, i mean where's the quotum for women working to pick up garbage or jobs like that? Or a minimum number of male nurses?
Besides that there's the discussion that women feel they're not getting paid the same as men for doing the same job. While i'm sure that would hold truth in many countries, almost nothing of that is true over here. Yes women do make less on average. However if you take into account all kinds of factors like the fact that about 90% (i could be wrong about the exact %, but it was really high) of the women that have a job here work parttime and they're often quitting work for a few years after getting a kid and their preference to do a 'fun' job rather than working in a well paying industry then suddenly that huge gap in pay has shrunk to 1 or maybe 2%. Sure that should be zero, but it's nowhere near as big as some people would have us believe.

Other than that i feel that if feminists would really want to be treated equal it should no longer mean 'women and kids first' in case of something like a sinking Titanic (i saw some comedian make a good joke about that, but i can't seem to find it right now), it should mean that women also ask men out on dates (it happens, but not normally), it should mean that it's not standard that men pick up the check after a dinner (i mean: why else are we paying women equally for?), it should mean...well i can go on, but you get the point.
 
Went out for work drinks ended up completely wasted. Jokes on me though as I have to work tomorrow...
 
So how feminist are you? :p



The 50's? That's for a large portion still happening. Especially in the Netherlands where most women work parttime. Men work fulltime for household. Women work parttime to socialize a bit and generate some cash so they can do fun stuff on their days off.



Over here there's even debates going on about getting quota's. Apparently there should be minimal like 30% women in the boards of big compagnies. Which basically means men would be discriminated. Besides that it's weird that this only should go for board rooms, i mean where's the quotum for women working to pick up garbage or jobs like that? Or a minimum number of male nurses?
Besides that there's the discussion that women feel they're not getting paid the same as men for doing the same job. While i'm sure that would hold truth in many countries, almost nothing of that is true over here. Yes women do make less on average. However if you take into account all kinds of factors like the fact that about 90% (i could be wrong about the exact %, but it was really high) of the women that have a job here work parttime and they're often quitting work for a few years after getting a kid and their preference to do a 'fun' job rather than working in a well paying industry then suddenly that huge gap in pay has shrunk to 1 or maybe 2%. Sure that should be zero, but it's nowhere near as big as some people would have us believe.

Other than that i feel that if feminists would really want to be treated equal it should no longer mean 'women and kids first' in case of something like a sinking Titanic (i saw some comedian make a good joke about that, but i can't seem to find it right now), it should mean that women also ask men out on dates (it happens, but not normally), it should mean that it's not standard that men pick up the check after a dinner (i mean: why else are we paying women equally for?), it should mean...well i can go on, but you get the point.
Not very. I might even identify as anti-(modern/third-wave)feminist based on the mainstream stuff I see.

I don't have a problem with this. It just is the way things are. That doesn't mean I think it should be that way, and I do believe that our choices are a reflection of cultural norms AND our biology. The thing I think some feminists deny is that our biology does play a role in our preferences and capabilities, and I suspect plays a major role in how our cultures developed, too.

I disagree 100% with quotas. I can't think of an example where I agree that discrimination based on sex alone is justified. AS you point out, people only want quotas in places where it makes the minority group look better to society as a whole (CEOs, politics, STEM fields) and don't bat an eye at the lack of representation in dangerous/smelly/labor-intensive jobs. No one cares because it's not about "power"... and I don't care, either, that men have lower job satisfaction. Or at least I care very little.

My understanding of the wage gap in the US is that when you account for all the obvious variables, it's not bigger than 5%. Now, 5% isn't very close to 0 so it is a problem imo, but one that is continually inflated ("78% for the same job") and we can't possibly address an issue appropriately if we don't know the magnitude of a problem like this, and what variables are responsible for a given problem.
So this 5% might be due to discrimination on sex. There is some evidence of that based on studies using resumes where only the name is changed. There is also some evidence that it's based on salary negotiations. I feel this type of problem is complex enough that there needs to be more nuance than "sexism!". Also, different fields should be addressed separately. No one cares that women in porn/modelling have much higher demand and therefore pay than men. However, on the flip-side there are people saying that womens' sports don't get enough attention and that this is discrimination. . . Well it is discrimination, but don't fault the whole of society for caring less about womens' sports. There is less demand, and it's as simple as that (and porn). Not every single instance of discrimination is a "problematic" imo. One of the most obvious examples is the reality that we discriminate based on looks all the time in the dating world (not to mention sex, gender, wealth, family, religion, politics...)

True feminists do want all of those things to be equal, but most of them are not that diehard.
Well this is the problem with the word feminist. There is no "true feminist" because feminist ideals are so diverse that it is meaningless. This is why people simultaneously can believe the feminism = wanting equality while rejecting the label as being toxic or meaning "man-hating".

Now, I think the question should be do most of them want to fix inequalities that harm men (maybe, I'm not sure) and whether or not the mainstream feminists want to do so as well (definitely not).

I can understand to a degree that people will be more interested in fighting for their own interests. We're simply more driven in these cases, whether it's a social issue, healthcare (donating to cure cancers for example) or whatever else. My problem comes in when people claim that they're for equality of everyone while 1) demonstrating that they only care about 50% of people through their actions/statements or 2) claiming that half of the human race is oppressed simply because they are treated differently or choose differently than the other half (which obviously goes both ways, depending on the context).
 
Forum issues still seem to be happening for me. Hadn't seen any posts at all over the weekend. On Monday forum didn't even load at work. Posted about it from home on Monday evening. Then Tuesday at work i saw all kinds of new posts by people. Not the one i made on Monday however. So i figured squid ate it, but at least forums work again. Then i come home again and when i go to here i still see my post that i thought got eaten and no new posts since Friday or so.
Tried logging out and back in again, but that didn't help. And now i'm at work again and it still seems to be up and running.

GL Nixie, hope everything goes well with the mrs.

Well said. It's just a real mess.

It's nearly impossible to fix any -ism without becoming an -ist.

An -ist isn't too bad. A -ber or -jah would be better, but -ist ain't bad. :)
 
MrsNix's surgery has gone as well as can be expected. She has lost a considerable amount of hearing but still has some function hearing left. As the swelling goes down she may even regain some more, or she could loose what she has. Only time will tell.
 
Good to hear that Nix. Hopefully after a few days things will improve even more.

A collegue of mine has been out for the better part of a year now as he has cancer. They removed his stomach. And it seemed that after that he was doing well. But now they found out it has spread to two other places. So that's not so good news for him.

And talking about not so good news... I think bambie is trying to poison us. Over here two stores have removed dew from the shelves (Mountain dew voltage and mountain dew red code). Apparently it can cause problems with behaviour, heart problems and lessened fertility. So people be careful with taking drinks from DJ! :eek:
 
The solution is simple: have less friends! (and/or less family, but they're harder to get rid of :D)

@kestegs Thought about that, but then you get at every site that question if you accept cookies otherwise no access. Really annoying. But if after work things at home are still the same i will give that a go because i want forums to work!
 
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