This just in...

Re: This just in...

@Mydienon: The game who mustn't be named has quite different hp to monster damage ratio than in Diablo. You can really, very so much really, die in <1 second from 90% of hell monster boss packs if playing say, a CtA-less sorc. Not the case in world-of-ruin-all-of-blizzards-other-franchises-because-of-greed-craft.
 
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Hmmm. Did my post indicate I wanted D3 to be more like WoW? Definitely not the case.

However, that's my only experience with a game that automatically takes control of your character whenever the player fails to provide commands.

Would I want that functionality for a Diablo game? No, I want offline singleplayer. But if I can't get offline singleplayer and must play with lag, this is one method of dealing with it. Players who don't suffer lag or disconnects aren't penalized, since their characters remain in their full control. However, players who do suffer from lag or disconnects would be able to play, most of the time, by chaining combat commands and knowing their character is able to fight as effectively as a moronic minion's AI if lag interrupts the command chain (which is still better than no AI at all).

Anyway, I was just tossing it out as a possibility. It would reduce my concerns, but then, it would increase my concerns in other ways (which is why I'd also want the ability to turn on and off this potential "feature"). There may be other ways the programmers deal with lag, too, instead of Jay's careless comment that it's auto-death.

Regardless, without offline singleplayer, I won't plan to buy the game. Dealbreaker for me, as that's how I had intended to play. Given this information, the only thing that would make me purchase the game is if I decide I want to play online multiplayer.

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@Jimmy: It's not really boasting to say you haven't tried playing a game. I'd say it's more neutral. An opinion based on a lack of experience would probably be seen as mostly invalid. Similar to what we're discussing with Diablo 3--you might react to what you've heard about it or seen of it, and talk about that in a positive or negative way, and declare what you plan to do in the future (to purchase and play, or not, and why)... But, valid? I mean, if someone came to the D2 strategy forums and declared they had never played D2, but had read a lot and had come up with a great strategy (or some other post about their beliefs on the game), I'm not sure I'd really value it much.
 
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Perhaps my comment regarding WoW should be seen as more "dismissive" rather than "neutral". Compare and contrast to the ends of the earth, and all one is left with is no ground to stand on.

And where was my opinion on the matter? I am simply stating a fact. Nothing more. No opinion there. But here's an opinion:

I would be hesitant to agree with an AI/command line play, but I do like the thinking outside of the Diablo box. If anything, this is a completely different game from the first two, so perhaps a fresh view would do it some good.
 
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Not sure I want to rely on broken goods, but it sounds like you two no more about pirating and cracking than I....

Either way, thanks for the advice and insight.

Since I make my living writing and selling software I would be surprised if I didn't know more about it than you, unless you make your living the same way. If I had ten bucks for every time someone pirated a piece of software i wrote, or helped to write, I would be able to buy a beach-front mansion. If I had ten bucks for every person who pirated the software, but would have bought it if they hadn't been able to pirate it I might be able to buy a used Corolla.

My company fights piracy by implementing copy protection a retarded five-year old could crack. The only reason we put it in is that we want people to know that they are doing something they shouldn't when they break the rules. The alternative is doing something that would anger our legitimate users, and still not stop the piracy. We are committed to not harming the experience of people who have bought our software in order to stop people from pirating it.

We discourage piracy by not offering support to people who have pirated our software. For that to work we have to offer excellent support, and we do. If you call us with a problem and it can't quickly be resolved by the person who answered the phone you will be called back by the lead programmer on your product.

We lose money on some customers by doing that- one idiot can wipe out our profit on ten sales. But one happy customer can sell a lot of copies for us- there is no advertising in the world like someone saying "I had a problem with the software, but I called them and they were like 'you're right about that' and issued a patch within 24 hours."

Blizzard's problem is that none of that makes any sense for them. I'm not sure I think their decisions are the right ones, but I wouldn't want to be faced with their problems.


 
@Jimmy :

Now you have to try WoW, sorry.

I played WoW for 5 minutes, I unlocked a single achievement: Tried WoW, and knows it sucks.
 
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Well, I haven't read anything about the AI taking care of your character if you drop or lag. As has been said, it is doubtful that Diablo can be solved like this. Unless they really, really, really rebalance HP and damage ratios for monsters and players.

Honestly, if the AI can play D3 for me and not die, I want the game even less. Having the AI take over when I lag is *not* acceptable. Also, for people that have a bad connection and thus would lag pretty much all the time, that does not help at all. Even if hypothetically, you were to suceed, would it be fun for you to watch a powerpoint presentation of your victory? Probably not.
 
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Ahhh thank you for this thread! I've been over at the Diablo 3 section on the forums arguing posters who seriously think always online is a great feature, no skillpoints is an even better feature and real money auction house is the best thing ever. Nothing sinks in.
 
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SC2 style DRM was enough for me NOT bothering with that game.

Now D3 is completely off.

1. No single player = No way I'm going to buy it
2. Always online = impossible for me to play it (I live in Australis, here, internet is still in stone age, and it will stay this way) as I wanted.
3. You can't change skill or stat points yourself? WTF were they thinking?
4. DRM is evil, I try to not support evil as much as I can.

I must say I was considering give it a try if there is decent single player + allow freedom to assign skill points + LAN support, with once only b.net account verification at time of installation. I guess there is no sanity left with Blizzard now.
 
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Is there any new game out there that is actually better than its prequel... This surely wont be. Any thoughts of buying or even trying out D3 have dropped even faster than the life bar after meleeing an undead flayer unique while cursed.

The responses from Blizzard about why not to make a separate online and offline gaming universe are just laughable. This is not the same company that made Starcraft and Diablo I and II.
 
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Is there any new game out there that is actually better than its prequel...

* Fallout 2
* Final Fantasy 3 (aka 6)
* Diablo 2
* Warcraft 3
* Baldur's Gate 2 (actually BG 1 is pretty ****ty)

some games actually do manage to spawn decent sequels, believe it or not. ;) I'd have to flip through my games library to see what else.

edit: Missed the "new" game. Well, you got me there, I guess. But maybe that's just because there is no new game out there that I like. Jesus, what was the last game that I got that didn't suck? Might have been Dragon Age Origins and that sequel is about as much fun as eating broken glass. With tabasco sauce. While listening to justin bieber.



 
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Re: This just in...

The arguments against AI control of a character during lag are pretty convincing. I agree. Chaining commands is still an option, though -- for lag at 1-2 seconds, a player can fairly reliably predict what the battle is going to look like from one moment to the next (or rather, guess the differences between what is shown client-side versus what is actually happening server-side). The sudden 15 second pauses can still kill, but in my experience those usually precede a disconnect anyway.

So I'd consider playing if I can spam a series of actions that will take place in the order I request over a period of a few seconds, and if the attacks work without 100% accuracy on the clicks (since I'd be targetting opponents that appear in a different place than where I clicked 2 seconds ago).

But that just means I'd consider playing. I still wouldn't take the game seriously, or invest a lot of time into it. I'd mess around with some friends online, drinking a beer and laying down suppression fire while they do the real killing. I can see that being fun for a one-off weekend, and it would be worth the admission price (cost of the game). If, that is, my friends and I decide we want to play this--and I doubt that would be the case, since there are so many great alternatives (the lack of LAN play and max of only 4 players would probably knock D3 right out of consideration).

I doubt I'll ever try another MMO (my tolerance for multiplayer antics is limited to people I know, respect, and appreciate the humour of). The auction house, real money or not, doesn't really bother me one way or the other. The lack of assigning skill points I can deal with, too (plenty of great games that don't include customized skills). But cutting offline gaming? That eliminates my desire for singleplayer gaming--if I have to play online, I'm going to play with others.

D3 is targetting a very narrow niche. I'd play it only with 2-4 players (myself included), when we're all available to play at the same time, when we're not all accessible via LAN, when we all want to play a fantasy genre rogue-like click-fest action CRPG or whatever the term is now, when the Blizzard servers are available (since we can't host our own server), and when our ping rates are all within playable range (which, with chained commands, could be pretty laggy--but if it's auto-death like in D2 or D1, this alone could kill D3 as a viable alternative).

I just don't see any reason to buy this game yet. I mean, except to have it look pretty on my shelf, and to talk about with other people about how I'd like to play when those specific circumstances all align. The cost isn't an issue here--it's that Blizzard is eliminating my reason to purchase, because they're taking away my ability to play. With offline singleplayer, all those specific requirements affecting my ability to play disappear and it becomes just my choice, whenever I have the time. I'd buy the game without a second thought--it may be a bad game, but I'd take that risk in a heartbeat. $60 for a game that completes the series, which might be good or bad, but I can play whenever I want? Sure. $60 for a game that completes the series, which might be good or bad, and I can play when and for as long as Blizzard and my ISP make it possible and my friends make it worthwhile? No, not worth it because I know it'll sit on my shelf annoying me.

Anyway, Blizzard is a company and targetting a niche isn't necessarily a bad business decision--especially with an IP game like Diablo. Seems like a lot of people will buy into this model, and D3 will sell well no matter what they do because of the fan base. Whether or not it damages Blizzard's reputation remains to be seen. I imagine people who buy D3 will think they can play it, no matter how clearly they say it requires online play only, because it's not an MMO. MMO gamers know they're subject to the whims of the company, server, and Internet connection quality (and it's stated clearly on the product). If Blizzard doesn't make it extremely clear to consumers that this game for 1-4 players is subject to the same restrictions as an MMO, they may get some pretty negative feedback...
 
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I'll add my 2 cents in here. At first I've been very negative about D3, I really thought it was a step back in different ways to play. Now seeing more of what it is, I feel this game will offer around 10x the variety D2 ever offered.

Sure the no singleplayer mode is a bummer, and I have yet to read whether we can adjust the difficulty or not, but if we do get near max level just doing a run through great. As long as I can still play odd characters, go on loot runs, and have fun doing it, the game is a winner in my books. The auction house just adds more to it and means I can make a few bucks playing since I never bought stuff anyways and if I'm not going to use something that is worth some cash..

Of course the biggest eyesore will be how hardcore is it with lag. For people that will play that method and only Hardcore I can see how this is a big drag.
 
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Is there any new game out there that is actually better than its prequel...


Not a new game, but... Quake 1 was fun, but the multiplayer didn't work. Quakeworld was awesome. Quake II was disappointing. But Quake III was pretty good, and with the cpma mod I think it was the best of the series. We won't talk about Q4 though...

I have a pro subscription to QL, sp I can make and host servers. Maybe we should play some SP forum Quake sometime ;).


 
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Yes, the important word is "new". I agree that there are many old titles that improved their series. Diablo II certainly did.

You do indeed have patience if you regard Diablo II as new, Greebo :wink:. May I one day aquire such patience too.
 
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Well, I played D1 in 2000, started playing D2 for the first time in 2008. D3 being released before 2016 is way ahead of schedule for me ;)
 
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Like Greebo, I'm always late to the party. The fact I bought a PS3 only 4 or so years after it came out is poor form for me. I started playing D1 in 1998 (at a friends place, I was hooked instantly), then hired it out a couple of times for the PS1, then picked it up again in 2004 (PS version again, via Ebay and a fair amount of cash), then started D2 in 2006 (after 6 solid years of drooling due to not having a PC), then discovered this place in 2007 (via a Google search which led me to dodgydave's epic naked zon writeup, can't recall what I was searching for). I'll take up D3 at whichever point they release an offline patch. Which may be never.
 
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naked zon

that was probably what you were searching for. :wink:
not to be OT, I will definitely be getting this game, if just so I won't feel left out when all my friends are playing it.
I do hope to see this community in D3 sooner rather than later though.


 
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After the announcement of no SP mode and RMT item trading, I am seriously considering not buying this at release, but waiting for a price drop.
 
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