This just in...

[Nightfish]

Re: This just in...

Later on, once they stop worrying about getting their lunch eaten by pirates and start thinking about milking the title, it might make sense to hit them up for a patch that allows offline play (assuming their architecture can be adapted to that.) And you never know- they might even change their mind about this before the release, again assuming they have built the ability to change their mind about it into the software (way too late, otherwise.) But, though I would save my breath here, I wouldn't hold it.

And why would they do that? If anything, because people cry "foul" loud enough. I've seen a few games that got changed because the community raged enough. Though that rarely helped the game. And a bigger chunk of the community was raging.

Either way, I know I will be laughing the day I read that D3 has been cracked and they spent all their effort excluding single players for *nothing*.

 

[baldanders]

Re: This just in...

And why would they do that? If anything, because people cry "foul" loud enough. I've seen a few games that got changed because the community raged enough. Though that rarely helped the game. And a bigger chunk of the community was raging.

Either way, I know I will be laughing the day I read that D3 has been cracked and they spent all their effort excluding single players for *nothing*.

Why would they change their mind before release? Because someone with charisma argued forcefully for the change in internal meetings. That person might be influenced by the community, but it's a long shot.

"If anything" is the clue here- they have made up their minds and nothing is likely to sway them from that decision, particularly if it would delay the release.

EDIT: But you're right that someone will crack it, day-1.

 

[JimmyOfJudecca]

Re: This just in...

I've worked for a number of software houses, of varying sizes, and my advice is to save your breath. They knew how unpopular this would be when they made the decision, but they also decided it would be in their best interests. You won't sway them by pointing out something they knew ahead of time. The "community" is a small part of their audience, and the part of the community that will actually not buy the game because of this is even smaller. NF is likely right- D3 will sell well anyway. If it doesn't sell well it won't be because of this.

Fair enough, and I have indeed thought about this. My initial response was more of an interest to see what kind of muscle we could muster as a group. We're not big, we're not influential, and we are not well enough connected to really do anything about it. Sad, but true. A "suck it up, buttercup" and move on. Your next point is good.

Later on, once they stop worrying about getting their lunch eaten by pirates and start thinking about milking the title, it might make sense to hit them up for a patch that allows offline play (assuming their architecture can be adapted to that.) And you never know- they might even change their mind about this before the release, again assuming they have built the ability to change their mind about it into the software (way too late, otherwise.) But, though I would save my breath here, I wouldn't hold it.

And here is what I expect may occur. My guess is that half of the game started offline and was then revamped at a key point to be further built around online play. Not sure if that sounds right, but it is was I envision in my nodgin. And I like my nodgin, so I will certainly continue to provide it oxygen. The point being that they certainly have the capability to offer offline play without the security issues mentioned, but it is all about how much money they can get out of a single game, and how to continue growing as a company. Being as large as they have become, it only makes sense that they would shoot for the weapons of mass cash accrual versus one hit wonders.

And why would they do that? If anything, because people cry "foul" loud enough. I've seen a few games that got changed because the community raged enough. Though that rarely helped the game. And a bigger chunk of the community was raging.

Either way, I know I will be laughing the day I read that D3 has been cracked and they spent all their effort excluding single players for *nothing*.

Although I see your point, it seems unlikely that the game itself would be greatly altered by the Diablo community. I mean, most of us have been waiting at least 5 years since the announcement, and others even longer. Any delay by those actually wanting the game to be released would seem gratuitous.

Why would they change their mind before release? Because someone with charisma argued forcefully for the change in internal meetings. That person might be influenced by the community, but it's a long shot.

"If anything" is the clue here- they have made up their minds and nothing is likely to sway them from that decision, particularly if it would delay the release.

EDIT: But you're right that someone will crack it, day-1.

Not sure I want to rely on broken goods, but it sounds like you two no more about pirating and cracking than I. NF, your other car must be a Kraken; and Baldanders, your other car must be a Badlander.

Either way, thanks for the advice and insight.

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: This just in...

Gameplanet: What happens if you drop out during mid-play?

Wilson: If you completely drop? Your character could die, but we don’t have a case where the penalty for that is harsh, unless you’re playing a hardcore characters, in which case I wouldn’t do that with a bad connection. But then, hardcore characters are generally the type of characters people want to play online because they play them for bragging rights. You can’t really brag if it’s on a home computer where you could have cheated to create the character.

You know what, Jay Wilson? Go **** yourself

 

[Nightfish]

Re: This just in...

Although I see your point, it seems unlikely that the game itself would be greatly altered by the Diablo community. I mean, most of us have been waiting at least 5 years since the announcement, and others even longer. Any delay by those actually wanting the game to be released would seem gratuitous.

No, I don't think you do, at that. My point was not that anyone can do anything to make blizzard give back single player. My point was that they will never do it on their own incentive. Simple buisness logic, really, why would they question one of their basic choices when nobody is complaining? How would they know there is even a market for single player games? That is my point.

Not sure I want to rely on broken goods, but it sounds like you two no more about pirating and cracking than I. NF, your other car must be a Kraken; and Baldanders, your other car must be a Badlander.

I do not own a single piece of illegal software. I've always gone by "if it's good, I'll buy it, if it's not good, I'm not touching it at all". But really, if you keep up with the news just a little bit you will noticed that nearly every game in the history of forever has been cracked within a week of it's release. And that's being generous. Frequently the illegal copies are available BEFORE the actual release date.

You can’t really brag if it’s on a home computer where you could have cheated to create the character.

What. The. ****.

Actually, if you think about what this says about the attitude of the person who wrote this originally... That makes me really sad for him.

 

[MCCCXXXVII]

Re: This just in...

I live in Australia, and there will be no D3 servers here (as much a fault of Telstra as of Blizzard). That means that I won't be able to play without about 0.2 seconds delay minimum, even with the best connection, which to me really sucks. I'm sure this is a problem for people in other countries too.... 0.2 seconds sounds pretty small, but in any situation where reacting quickly and fluidly is important, it can be killer.

What really gets me though is the brazen nature of Blizzard's bull$&% about "delivering the best possible play experience" - that's their publicised reasoning for every single profiteering/piracy paranoia related system they've implemented. Now, I have no problem with a company doing what they can to maximise the profit of their product (within our current society, that is - I don't know if it's the best sort of society ultimately), but the sheer amount of bull**** they surround it with is just hugely irritating. Has having no LAN play improved the experience of SC2 players? Hell no, in fact the requirement of connecting via Blizzard's servers has damaged the quality of play in many tournaments. Similarly with D3, no online play sure isn't going to improve my gaming experience. Profiteering is necessary within a capitalist society, but does it have to devolve into outright propaganda?

 

[corax1]

Re: This just in...

i love the fact that thyiad closed flux's thread....pwnt

 

[Klonki]

Re: This just in...

I think i will stay with Diablo 2. Cattle.net only with d3.

 

[bodry]

Re: This just in...

i love the fact that thyiad closed flux's thread....pwnt

She (corrected, I'm a fool) owns :yes:

Not to be offtopic: I wanted to play D3 so badly 3 years ago. That first 20 minute gameplay footage sold me the game. But the team somehow wonderfully managed to **** that up, big time. No statpoints, no skilltree or traits or whatsoever (I don't really care what's it called until I get my points for the level for Chris' sakes!), changing the lore etc. Maybe x years after the release when patches clean this mess up, ofc in hardcore without any bullcr*p Mastercard Auction House.

One sidenote about real money auction house. One of my very first memories about Bnet gaming was a baalrun, in which a particular paladin asked me how to place his skillpoints for HAMMERDIN. He was around lvl 85-86. He told me, he bought his perfect HAMMA set from a store, and he needs to start owning in full games. D3 softcore will be the new playground for Chinese item farmers and rich idiots.

Ps.: D3 won't work behind a proxy server either. No college gaming? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

 

[Arkardo]

Re: This just in...

You can’t really brag if it’s on a home computer where you could have cheated to create the character.

Thanks Jay, for kicking all us SP'ers in the groin. You know, most of us play SP BECAUSE bnet is a cheatfest. You know you can't hold back the cheats forever in bnet2, so just give us SP in D3, please.

EDIT: just noted I wasn't the only one that noticed that comment. Makes me glad!

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: This just in...

You know you can't hold back the cheats forever in bnet2, so just give us SP in D3, please.

Exactly. This "we're doing it for security purposes" is horse ****.

I know cheaters are eventually going to break the system.
You know cheaters are eventually going to break the system
HE knows cheaters are eventually going to break the system.

ESPECIALLY now that freakin' real money transactions are built directly into the game.

 

[Cyrax1]

Re: This just in...

Gameplanet: What happens if you drop out during mid-play?

Wilson: If you completely drop? Your character could die, but we don’t have a case where the penalty for that is harsh, unless you’re playing a hardcore characters, in which case I wouldn’t do that with a bad connection. But then, hardcore characters are generally the type of characters people want to play online because they play them for bragging rights. You can’t really brag if it’s on a home computer where you could have cheated to create the character.

:rolf: Has this guy even ever seen this game? Let alone played it? This is just crazy. He's basically saying: "Don't play HC. Ever.". Reading that i'm curious as to why they even put HC in D3.

Also let's see how many players this would affect. I'm just guessing here, but let's say 40% plays HC (either exclusively or casually). That would mean that he'd advise 40% of the people not to play (or go SC). Yes that's right, i'm not dividing this into people with good and bad internetconnections. You can have a great connection 95% of the time but if that 5% of the time gets you killed every time i doubt you'd be playing HC for long. Remember: you don't have to fully loose the connection, just a 0.2 or 0.3 second delay is enough to do the trick.

He owns :yes:

You might want to correct that before Thy catches it. She may not be happy with that. :wink:

 

[Kestegs]

I've always thought that comment was pretty stupid. I think he just doesn't realize how the game works. After playing years of HC on bnet, I never once lagged out and came back to a dead toon. I know it can happen, but its rare. It just further proves what a moron he is.

 

[bodry]

Re: This just in...

You might want to correct that before Thy catches it. She may not be happy with that. :wink:

OMFG, I'm absolutely sorry. I've never known that.

 

[dimasong]

Re: This just in...

:rolf: Has this guy even ever seen this game? Let alone played it? This is just crazy. He's basically saying: "Don't play HC. Ever.". Reading that i'm curious as to why they even put HC in D3.

Also let's see how many players this would affect. I'm just guessing here, but let's say 40% plays HC (either exclusively or casually). That would mean that he'd advise 40% of the people not to play (or go SC). Yes that's right, i'm not dividing this into people with good and bad internetconnections. You can have a great connection 95% of the time but if that 5% of the time gets you killed every time i doubt you'd be playing HC for long. Remember: you don't have to fully loose the connection, just a 0.2 or 0.3 second delay is enough to do the trick.



You might want to correct that before Thy catches it. She may not be happy with that. :wink:

My connection was always your average canadian connection, and I died to lag 3-4 times total out of 100+ HC characters.

/yawn

 

[Kestegs]

Did you come over here just to mock us?

 

[JihadJesus]

Re: This just in...

Jay Wilson: You can’t really brag if it’s on a home computer where you could have cheated to create the character.

Thanks Jay, for kicking all us SP'ers in the groin. You know, most of us play SP BECAUSE bnet is a cheatfest. You know you can't hold back the cheats forever in bnet2, so just give us SP in D3, please.

EDIT: just noted I wasn't the only one that noticed that comment. Makes me glad!

You can't really brag about that mansion on the water - you could have purchased it with drug money.

You can't really brag about how hot your wife is - she could have had tons of plastic surgery.

You can't really brag about that winning touchdown - you could have been taking steroids.

You can't brag about your cum laude from Harvard - you could have slept with your professors.

You can't brag about your high paying job - you could have family connections.

Huh. It's almost like the possibility of something is not enough to imply that it actually happened in a given instance. You massive effing ******bag. And that's completely leaving aside the fact that battlenet was a freaking Mecca for hackers, botters, and dupers. Which you've surely fixed. You know, by giving them an in-game cash incentive to do those things.

I just can't believe how far their heads are up their collective rectums on this game. It's just stupifying.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: This just in...

<Cue emperor speech about giving in to your anger>


Anyway, seriously, just from my PoV, I don't think I could have done half the builds I did if I had to play online. Because half of 54 is still greater than 10. Also the lag thing. And on a sidenote, obviously 10 chars max means goodbye to grailing unless I've overlooked the part about the unlimited stash. Also means goodbye to my "outside the box" builds that required specific items to work. Like the ondal's helm + soul drainer combo to make weaken cast reliably enough. In a nutshell, I guess I couldn't do anything with D3, even if I did get the goddamn game.

 

[Vulpine]

Re: This just in...

My connection was always your average canadian connection, and I died to lag 3-4 times total out of 100+ HC characters.

/yawn

It does look like you've only played summoner necros and hammerdins. Try to make, say, a non-barbarian hardcore titan and you'll immediately start paying attention to ping and connection disruptions.

 

[Mydienon]

Re: This just in...

I had a thought:

What if the gameplay is tweaked so that lag no longer means, "stand there doing nothing until you die"?

I played WoW up to levels in the high-20s despite 1-2 second lag times that would spike (much) higher on occasion. My characters rarely died at lower levels, because when no command is given, they continue to act--attacking and defending without any special options. Also, commands would chain. You could press a series of special attacks/defenses, and your character would do them in the order received by the server.

From 20th-30th level, the lag deaths would accumulate and reach the point of near-total unplayability. I did this for awhile, leveling characters until they couldn't do combat anymore, then crafting, playing the auction house, and chatting. Quit the game after a few months because I realized I couldn't progress further in WoW, and my free-to-play games were more fun.

However, if Diablo 3 is programmed similarly, it may be possible to play with lag. If you can chain your attack commands, and if your character reverts to AI control whenever in combat and no commands are received by the server (perhaps as a special option for those who want it), and if items aren't permanently lost when a disconnect occurs, and if...

I don't know. The lack of offline singleplayer still means I have no intention of buying Diablo 3 (barring friends convincing me to get it specifically for online multiplayer games). But if the game is programmed to support players despite lag issues, it may ease the problem somewhat.

Well...but then I go back to the servers storing my characters/save game files, and what happens when the game is no longer supported, and is the game worth the price when I have so many other options of great games (and limited time to play, so deciding which game to invest my time in is a much greater decision than how much it costs)...

Do I really want to invest time playing this game when the decision of whether or not I can play, when I can play, where I can play, how long I can play, and who I can play with is more Blizzard's decision than my own?

I do have a choice of what I can play. Diablo 1 and 2 will continue to be great games after Diablo 3 is released, and I have a long list of other excellent games to choose from which I've not yet completed (or would love to complete again). Yes, I could afford to buy Diablo 3 and have it sit on my shelf unplayed, but why bother?

I sort of lost the point of my post arguing with myself--yes, there are ways the online-only play could be made less painful to me (through good programming decisions and options for the player). But I'm not yet convinced that will be the case with Diablo 3.

I haven't played Diablo 1 in a couple years. Perhaps, on the day of D3's release, I'll boot up the original as my game to look forward to, and as a memorial to greatness...