The Official "Temple vs. No-Holds-Barred" Thread <

[sbc84]

1. If by balancing you mean making a blob of unskilled teleporters that any kid can pick up and duel with, then yes off-class skills do "balance pvp"

a. No lifetap because it just becomes a race to see who gets lucky and casts it (sometimes it happens twice in 1 duel, sometimes none in 5 duels)

If you consider all teleporters as tele-alot noobadins, then maybe you should stop dueling noobs. Tele-aloters die faster than when they run/walk. An example about the balance issue, tell me how would u rank these 3 in head-to-head duels: hammerdin, bone necro, wind druid. With teleport? Without teleport?

Life-tap: D2 damages are all about chances; look at all the weapons for example. Life-tap is just another factor; it helps keeping 2 melees from click-and-hold duels which whoever has better damage/life win.

 

[Halbreed7250]

Life-tap: it helps keeping 2 melees from click-and-hold duels which whoever has better damage/life win.

I've yet to see a vet click and hold in a smite duel in Temple . . .

Food for thought: Life tap keeps them clicking and holding even longer . . .

The duel would be over faster w/o it, but either way, they're clicking and holding . . .

"helps keeping 2 melees *from*" ----- wtf?

What you said could very easily, and was by me, be taken to mean that the only reason you would support life tap is so they could run away as soon as it was casted. Is that exactly what you meant? Well let's use an 'example': 2 smiters in Temple using exile and drac's. life tap casts, they both run away. Now minus the life tap, in temple, the good players do that already.

-Crayon

 

[sbc84]

I've yet to see a vet click and hold in a smite duel in Temple . . .

Food for thought: Life tap keeps them clicking and holding even longer . . .

The duel would be over faster w/o it, but either way, they're clicking and holding . . .

"helps keeping 2 melees *from*" ----- wtf?

What you said could very easily, and was by me, be taken to mean that the only reason you would support life tap is so they could run away as soon as it was casted. Is that exactly what you meant? Well let's use an 'example': 2 smiters in Temple using exile and drac's. life tap casts, they both run away. Now minus the life tap, in temple, the good players do that already.

-Crayon

doesn't it make the duel more interesting when one person is life-tapped? he/she needs to run/charge away trying to shake it off or maybe counter attack if the other person is too aggressive. And for the other person, it's his/her job to use all possible attacks charge/foh (or whatever) trying to finish his opponent while he/she still has the advantage. It's like power play.

 

[OpiuTry_OnE]

oh and,
Yes we are trying to re-create 1.09 dueling somewhat.
Also, this is an only paladin game, so the whole character balance is rather, build balance. I would say that just about all of those items, if allowed, would unbalance pally dueling... a tele and/or doom, cta, etc hammerdin doesn't sound very balanced compared to a v/t with the same items...
does it?

hm.. but wasnt fury druids/bears allowed in 0.9 pala duelin games.. n some of the melee assasins

 

[FoodPoisoning]

yes in the main zealot games...
Temple is for pal vs pal

 

[Module88]

Drew is a living example of that number 2. He used to fight with not so godly gear. And win all the time. As did i and many others.

Used to -.- But nevertheless, point proven, I had an SS for smiting and I could beat Jiggabone and others, with far less superior gear or build. Hell, Master-Onion has about 125 Base str (SS, formerly) and about 115 dex (Nooblarness) and I still manage to do well in temple with it, with moderate gear. Gear isn't everything. SAs for the Group one people, Ive seen some of u in temple and ur all bm.

O and btw, a non bm person CAN and DO beat bm people, My liberator is living proof, i beat so many people with exile / doom / cta's so just cuz i dont use it, dont mean im a noob who can't afford it. It means that i dont want to be bm. many people from temple Beat all sorts of BM people. Its all about how u build ur pala and not what gear u have.

Yet you can't beat my 1800 life Onion -.-

and how do the elite players not conform to the rules? That makes no sence at all..lol..... Ive been there a long time and i haven't noticed any elite player non conforming. By elite do u mean (A) People who have Godly gear or (b) People who have been playing pala since 07 -1.10 and have good gear and play temple since it was openend in 08 ?????
So how would u define elite?

I use pots


So now, in the unlikely event that none of you picked up my sarcasm and jokes, group 2 is right, and not by opinion, though you may think so. The simple statement all elite players don't follow the rules is utter crap. There is NO way you are ever going to be able to prove that in any way shape or form, whereas group two can prove their point through testing and various duels.

 

[Module88]

1. Wouldn't it require more skills to duel and because of the off-class skills? do the off-class skills balance pvp because of varieties. One example, without teleport, necro is on top of things; with teleport, there are some serious challengers that can consistently beat them in any series match, namely tele hammerdin.

I fail to see how this works. Hammerdins would have to go on the offensive, and run into a bunch of teeth flying everywhere. Want to play defensive? You get pegged two screens away.

3. Can someone give reasonable explanations behind each of the restrictions? why do they make the duel better? (your inability to give explanations can only back up my opinions on them).

I'm not going to bother checking all of the rules, but give me threee that you have the biggest issues on and I can probably tell you why.

 

[Module88]

If you consider all teleporters as tele-alot noobadins, then maybe you should stop dueling noobs. Tele-aloters die faster than when they run/walk. An example about the balance issue, tell me how would u rank these 3 in head-to-head duels: hammerdin, bone necro, wind druid. With teleport? Without teleport?

Life-tap: D2 damages are all about chances; look at all the weapons for example. Life-tap is just another factor; it helps keeping 2 melees from click-and-hold duels which whoever has better damage/life win.

Now, assuming no one would ever be stupid enough to make a pure hammerdin without using teleport, I'll consider that it is say, a liberator. Without teleport, Necros would eat the windy's and hammerdin's for breakfast. If well played, the druid and liberator would stand even. I wouldn't run into a 16k hammer as I wouldn't run into a 16k tornado. With teleport, the druid, with equal skill and gear, will still lose (proven by the fenris test) and hammerdins, well, already explained. And for the last point, as far as I'm concerned, if the other guys is life tapped, I'd try to get off as many hits as possible, not run away. Therefore, in increases the click and hold time of duels.

 

[One_Line_Drawing]

1. If by balancing you mean making a blob of unskilled teleporters that any kid can pick up and duel with, then yes off-class skills do "balance pvp"

2. Godly in this case meant stuff such as his current rb flail of quick,
19-20/1x lr scs, 35+ combats, etc. He dueled without those and won. We choose not to try new things because we dont want to be part of that blob mentioned already.

3. Explanations for the temple restrictions? I think Lovely already went over them..but here they are again

a. No lifetap because it just becomes a race to see who gets lucky and casts it (sometimes it happens twice in 1 duel, sometimes none in 5 duels)

b. No doom because one of the harder skills to do w/ a paladin is aura flashing, especially now since it can be done for a second or less only.

c. No stacking auras, pretty much same reason as b., that it's a skill that includes timing, patience, and strategy.


Those are the ones that stand out the most, except they've been discussed already, these and others.

Btw, do you want a cookie?

Damn your avatar looks sweet.

 

[Module88]

My point was that if I brought that necro, with about 25 runes invested in him . . .

I would pwn temple I think . . .

-Crayon

No you wouldn't. Food would call me up and we'd all mob you with ow, put you in stunlock, and EAT YOU ALIVE. Or we could just switch chars. :winner:

 

[FoodPoisoning]

then we would use smyte hack

 

[sbc84]

I fail to see how this works. Hammerdins would have to go on the offensive, and run into a bunch of teeth flying everywhere. Want to play defensive? You get pegged two screens away.

Hammerdin is more effective than wind druid in duels vs good necro (vs bad necro, then wind druid is better because wind druid is the best noob killer). Hammerdin is faster for one thing. Anther thing the necro who is trying to aggressively spear the hammerdin from off screen is usually a dead necro. As a hammerdin, you just need to come quickly to attack and get out of range quickly. If the necro is making a mistake of casting more than one teeth b4 teleing away, it's usually a dead necro. If you have or know anyone with a good necro on uswest/ladder, we can duel just to show you that necro and hammerdin are very much even when using teleport.

 

[FoodPoisoning]

1. Temple is Pal vs Pal so thats irrelevant
2. The reasons for all the rules have been posted by me, if you don't like them dont join damnit
3. Just because someone doesn't agree with your version of manners doesn't mean they're "noob"
4. A pox on GhettoBox for starting this stupid arguement!
5. I say, a rap-off danny?

 

[Module88]

Hammerdin is more effective than wind druid in duels vs good necro (vs bad necro, then wind druid is better because wind druid is the best noob killer). Hammerdin is faster for one thing. Anther thing the necro who is trying to aggressively spear the hammerdin from off screen is usually a dead necro. As a hammerdin, you just need to come quickly to attack and get out of range quickly. If the necro is making a mistake of casting more than one teeth b4 teleing away, it's usually a dead necro. If you have or know anyone with a good necro on uswest/ladder, we can duel just to show you that necro and hammerdin are very much even when using teleport.

Faster? How so? Their cast rates are almost identical (if not identical). Come quickly to attack as a hammerdin? Because your hammer appears at the 10 o clock position, that gives the necro time to shoot you and teleport. It's not as if you could ever get close enough to have your hammer hit him right as it is cast, since a necro shouldn't be standing still for so long. Someone with a good necro, I haven't played for months. I don't even remember my hotkeys. Ask the other guys or visit the necro forum. I'm sure they can pull someone out to duel you.

 

[FoodPoisoning]

k my Pox list now includes Phil, Sam, and Dan

 

[Module88]

k my Pox list now includes Phil, Sam, and Dan

Pox? Que es ese? Oh well. I will just simply smiteth thee.

 

[Mr.Glasscock]

Get your telehammerdin and challenge the best necros on their forum. You can enlighten yourself this way.

Don't confuse your pubbie games, where 99% of the necros fight like oblivion knights, with real duels.

They fight like that because those off-class items allow them to do just that; massive life, fcr, mana (some of them pot, pathetic I might add), etc. Since you support these items and skills, (and managed to go off the topic of palvpal, guess u were gettin killed in that argument) I guess you support those weak duels, fake duels, if you will.

And the cause for lifetap is really worthless now; you want to reward the player with most % to cast lifetap. I'm sorry, but how does that balance duels and take skill?

 

[FoodPoisoning]

Alack the day!
halt this quarreling say I!

 

[Snake-Byte]

1. Doom: took away one of the most important tactic that has to master by a PvP pal before, which is holy freeze flash.

and how is that any different than holy freeze flash? You sacrafice the potentially high damage of an eth botd zerker for lower damage, but holy freeze on your opponents. Right? Plus, you can always compensate for the holy freeze's slow effect by stacking ias. Inconvenient to you? You bet, but it really screws anyone dependant on holy freeze from doom to win over.

2. Beast: You get more damage and speed without having to sarcifice anything (a hammerdin can hit 6fps smite without tweaking.)

Why would a hammerdin smite in the first place? I did for fun on mine, but never once in a serious duel. And again, without sacraficing anything? Eth BoTD zerker bub. Compare the weapon damage. I highly doubt the damage from fanat would make up for it.

3. TPing w/ Enigma: Wind Druid & Bone Necro, basically a sorc without having to worry about lowlife. Without TP, Wind Druid will have trouble killing a zealot. Necro won't be as good as now.

Fight fire with fire. If they teleport, you teleport. As far as sorcs worrying about low life, look at eshield + telekenesis some time. That ups their life potential alot, especially considering most mana pot (which I don't consider BM, considering 15/70 charms are still on USEast. Lesser of two evils, I say.)

4. Lacerator: one axe to rule them all. ama, asn, pal using Guided Arrow with Lacerator Combo is crazy. Shoot and switch, then it is gg for your opponent.

Fight fire with fire. It might actually be fun?

5. Slow: S...S....oooo.... S...L....O....W.... S...m...i...t...ing...at....1...2......f...p...s

I wont' argue with you here, slow is pretty lame.

6. Exile: You lose, wait you dont lose -_-

Smite them using a lacerator. Amp>Life Tap, gg k thx?


I don't see the reasoning behind the banning of all these items. I personally think teleporting, battle orders, oak sage, and all these other skills granted by items/charges add a new depth to the game. It makes dueling a lot more high-risk in taking damage, instead of the ever-boring click & hold known as melee "dueling..." (Yes, I melee duel on occasion, if anyone's wondering. And no, I don't suck at it. I have a 6k 10fpa conc barb with 4k life, 50% pdr, and 38k def w/ conc (35k ar with enchant, 28k or so without) he doesn't win them all, but he sure doesn't lose them all either.)

I don't use potions, I try to refrain from using amp unless someone else forces me to (I have no qualms about doing so), I don't use slow, and I don't NK / Jump unless the other person turns it into a BM duel first.

I have a tele bone necro, and a tele druid. They're VERY fun to duel with, especially vs other teleing casters. Despite what alot of you may think, it's not boring, and it's not ********. It's FUN. Try it before you knock it, please?

 

[FoodPoisoning]

ok look, we don't care. This is pal vs pal
and people who are knocking other people for using tele or whatever, stop
there is no real debate here, all i see is
someone calling something stupid,
someone saying that's not stupid, then calling something else stupid... etc