You'll probably want to exclude 1.07 RoF as well (as if anyone is going to do this) since there is a vex pattern. Not sure if it's fair to allow 1.13 RoF if banning LK since there are jah patterns but I dunno.
RFO and Zodthon: Planning Stage
- Thread starter Grape1
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From what I see according to known patterns on 1.13 RoF, best so far is players 7/8 and assuming someone spends whole 20 hours there running, he could aim for like 11k chests opened total (if he can hit 2 chests in 13 seconds), which means that player has roughly 1/6 to get Ber, 1/3 to get Sur, 1/2 to get Lo... In short, according to known patterns, such player has expectation of finding only 1 Lo+ rune per 20 hours of investment if he is really outstandingly efficient. I think we can allow the area. If anything, it seems weaker than random alvl85 ran with random character.
in that case then 1.07 is probably fine for RoF (unless there's another HR pattern, perhaps) since so far there's only pul + vex
Just for information's sake, in my first ~20 hours of running the RoF superchests, this is the haul I got:
2 x Mal
1 x Ist
2 x Gul
1 x Vex
1 x Ohm
1 x Sur
In the next ~10-12 hours (that's all I spent on /p8) I got:
1 x Um
1 x Mal
3 x Ohm
1 x Sur
So the results definitely don't blow you out of the water. The only discrepancy is that Carawolk got 2 Jahs in from what I can tell is about 4k runs (around 20 hours spent, most likely) on the /p5 setting. This is almost certainly an anomaly though, and the /p5 patterns seem to have much fewer patterns in general, so you'd be really banking on a Jah or two at most. Doubt that's enough to win this thing, especially with Trav in there.
2 x Mal
1 x Ist
2 x Gul
1 x Vex
1 x Ohm
1 x Sur
In the next ~10-12 hours (that's all I spent on /p8) I got:
1 x Um
1 x Mal
3 x Ohm
1 x Sur
So the results definitely don't blow you out of the water. The only discrepancy is that Carawolk got 2 Jahs in from what I can tell is about 4k runs (around 20 hours spent, most likely) on the /p5 setting. This is almost certainly an anomaly though, and the /p5 patterns seem to have much fewer patterns in general, so you'd be really banking on a Jah or two at most. Doubt that's enough to win this thing, especially with Trav in there.
T72on1
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If its gonna be ultimate, then gotta make it ultimate indeed!
Suggested ruleset:
1) Any area can be run apart from LK superchests and Countess (because odds there are different than in the rest of the game)
2) Running time is divided into sets of which every lasts 20 hours maximum. Each player can do as many sets as he would like during the tournament, but they should in some way keep track of playing time (via clock of any kind, there are online clocks too, or you can use runcounter)
3) Sets are not connected to certain character or certain area. This means during their 20 hour set, players can combine characters and areas in any way they like.
4) Once set is started, you must finish it full 20 hours before you start another set (optional rule to prevent players from restarting sets until they find first rune and declare "from this moment on this set will count toward my score!"). Argument against this rule is that players might wanna keep sets separate between characters or running areas, and this rule disables that option since player is clearly forced to finish his set before starting a new one.
5) Cubing runes into higher ones is not allowed. In other words don't cube Pul runes into Um to get score.
6) You can play 1.07 and 1.13+ and combine them as you wish.
Scoring:
1.13 version:
Mal 5.0
Um 5.1
Gul 7.1
Ist 7.5
Ohm 10.1
Vex 10.6
Sur 13.7
Lo 15.1
Jah 18.3
Ber 20.5
Cham 27.5
Zod 71.8
1.07 version:
Um 13.4
Mal 17.8
Ist 26.8
Gul 35.6
Vex 53.4
Ohm 70.6
Lo 106.0
Sur 142.3
Ber 213.4
Jo 284.3
Cham 426.4
Zod (you really need score for this one?!) (in ATMA calculator it seems Cham is harder to find than Zod? ISO comparison for Zod vs Cham in 1.07)
Scoring system 1: RFO system
All Um+ runes are counted and summed up for a total score for each set individually
Scoring system 2: Zodthon system
Top 5 runes per set are counted toward final score for each set individually
Both scoring systems are applied.
Playing time: total of 1 month? I hope players won't forget about the tournament this long, it can seem too long like that
Opinions?
1) 'both scoring systems are applied' ... what benefit would this have?
2) with this set of rules, one can just do Travincal only right? I thought that area is so much better than the rest that it wouldn't be fair, except if someone gets lucky and finds a Zod in another area? Or isn't this the case because of applying both scoring systems?
I kinda like the idea of @Neksja : 20 hours at Travincal, 20 hours at Moo Moo Farm and 20 hours at any A85 area. I wouldn't force people to do it with the same character though. Time for each set of 20 hours would be 2 weeks, so 6 weeks in total.
Hey, nice propsals.
I'd be fine with either along the lines of Gripphon's ultimate tournament or this RFO+Zodthon+alvl85 type of tournament league.
Any preferences so far? I, myself, haven't made my mind yet. Both of them sound cool
I'd be fine with either along the lines of Gripphon's ultimate tournament or this RFO+Zodthon+alvl85 type of tournament league.
Any preferences so far? I, myself, haven't made my mind yet. Both of them sound cool
T72on1
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I think I like both ideas, but don't completely get the Gripphon's ultimate tournament, I guess. So maybe if he could clear that up a bit (see also my previous post), I can say which one I prefer.
Also, if 3x 20 hours and especially 6 weeks is too long for people, this could also be 3x 10 hours in a 3 week time frame for example.
This thread has actually made me doubt if I want to push my Blizzard Sorc to 98 prior to the RFO / Zodthon, so I can also do Cows with her, or if I want to level up a Javazon for cows instead. I definitely lean towards the former though, as I haven't got Griffon's or an Infinity for the Javazon yet, and I doubt I'll get her to a high enough level to be worth it.
Also, if 3x 20 hours and especially 6 weeks is too long for people, this could also be 3x 10 hours in a 3 week time frame for example.
This thread has actually made me doubt if I want to push my Blizzard Sorc to 98 prior to the RFO / Zodthon, so I can also do Cows with her, or if I want to level up a Javazon for cows instead. I definitely lean towards the former though, as I haven't got Griffon's or an Infinity for the Javazon yet, and I doubt I'll get her to a high enough level to be worth it.
Oh, this is how I thought about the "both scoring systems applied":
You could go on and try to score a Zod (or the other high ones) for like 10 hours on Cows and then switch to Travi for the rest, or vice versa. Like, nice haul with the first half, and you could try to improve it with the travi running.
I'd rather have it 6 weeks than 3 weeks with shorter play times.
Btw, getting to 98 would be nice in that regards that you wouldn't care for deaths so much. Those moo moos can be quite deadly
You could go on and try to score a Zod (or the other high ones) for like 10 hours on Cows and then switch to Travi for the rest, or vice versa. Like, nice haul with the first half, and you could try to improve it with the travi running.
I'd rather have it 6 weeks than 3 weeks with shorter play times.
Btw, getting to 98 would be nice in that regards that you wouldn't care for deaths so much. Those moo moos can be quite deadly
T72on1
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I'd still hate to lose that 40M xp from Ancients, but after that ... yeah .
Although I'd think that a Blizzard Sorc should be quite safe in Cow runs, barring some bad teleporting. Then again I have never done much Cow running at all.
O yes, about the scoring system ... I thought that is what he meant. It just made me wonder if only running Travincal wouldn't be the most beneficial way to do this, hence the 'ultimate' tournament wouldn't be so ultimate. Unless you run an other area and are lucky enough to score a Zod of course ...
.Although I'd think that a Blizzard Sorc should be quite safe in Cow runs, barring some bad teleporting. Then again I have never done much Cow running at all.
O yes, about the scoring system ... I thought that is what he meant. It just made me wonder if only running Travincal wouldn't be the most beneficial way to do this, hence the 'ultimate' tournament wouldn't be so ultimate. Unless you run an other area and are lucky enough to score a Zod of course ...
Don't know should both scoring systems be applied, or only one. I think better one is from Zodthon, top 5 runes are scored and that's it.
This also could be event by event type of tournament, first Travincal, then Cows and then alvl85. 2 weeks per area seems reasonable, that is reasonable time to complete 20 hours of playing and also makes people play everything at some point.
Hours of playing could also be reduced from 20 since it seems to me people in general won't complete 20 hours anyway. 15 hours limits also seems nice. That way even 2 sets of running could possibly be done too, and it will be easier for most players to have full playing time since 1 hour per day is required to make that happen. Just an idea. It will, however, require to also include runes from Hel on to make sure everyone has top 5 score of some kind. Similar as on Zodthon.
This also could be event by event type of tournament, first Travincal, then Cows and then alvl85. 2 weeks per area seems reasonable, that is reasonable time to complete 20 hours of playing and also makes people play everything at some point.
Hours of playing could also be reduced from 20 since it seems to me people in general won't complete 20 hours anyway. 15 hours limits also seems nice. That way even 2 sets of running could possibly be done too, and it will be easier for most players to have full playing time since 1 hour per day is required to make that happen. Just an idea. It will, however, require to also include runes from Hel on to make sure everyone has top 5 score of some kind. Similar as on Zodthon.
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T72on1
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I'd definitely be game for the event type of tournament in that case. 3x 20 hours is fine by me.
Do I stand a chance with my Blizz Sorc at Cows, or will Javazon always outperform her, even without Infinity and especially Griffon's (people run Cows without merc, right?). O yes, and Enigma. There's still some time left before the tournament, so obviously there still is a chance that I will find / make any of these items.
Do I stand a chance with my Blizz Sorc at Cows, or will Javazon always outperform her, even without Infinity and especially Griffon's (people run Cows without merc, right?). O yes, and Enigma. There's still some time left before the tournament, so obviously there still is a chance that I will find / make any of these items.
Neksja
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@T72on1, I think Blizzsorc should do fine with Cows, the only problem is accidentally killing the Cow King. Happened to my Blizzsorc, because I was kinda close to the Cow King enclosure and he just casually strolled under my Blizzard and died. So that's something you'd need to be very aware of, so you don't end up killing the King 5 hours in to the tournament and trying to get a new runner going. But Blizzsorc is definitely doable and I found mine to be pretty efficient at it as well, just wanted to make sure you don't end up killing Cow King
I'm planning on preparing for Javazon for this, if I have the time as I don't want to spend my Ancients with my Hammerdin just yet to access Moo Moo Farm. I don't have Griffon's, but I am planning on making Infinity for her merc, so I should be covered. And for Cows, I don't think you really need an Enigma for Javazon, their fcr breakpoints are horrible IIRC and you are just moving quickly through the farm, just get a map where Tristram is really close to Waypoint so you don't spend too much time getting the leg. Just load up with +skills and if you have a Headhunter's Glory (or a decent open socket magic shield or Moser's), stick in whatever lightning facets you may have. Luckily, my Hammerdin just found a 3os HHG last night, so I can use that, although I have 0 lightning facets...
I'm planning on preparing for Javazon for this, if I have the time as I don't want to spend my Ancients with my Hammerdin just yet to access Moo Moo Farm. I don't have Griffon's, but I am planning on making Infinity for her merc, so I should be covered. And for Cows, I don't think you really need an Enigma for Javazon, their fcr breakpoints are horrible IIRC and you are just moving quickly through the farm, just get a map where Tristram is really close to Waypoint so you don't spend too much time getting the leg. Just load up with +skills and if you have a Headhunter's Glory (or a decent open socket magic shield or Moser's), stick in whatever lightning facets you may have. Luckily, my Hammerdin just found a 3os HHG last night, so I can use that, although I have 0 lightning facets...
T72on1
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Yes, I killed the Cow King first time with my HC Blizz Sorc, because the entrance portal was next to the Cow King's Fort, and I immediately started killing cows upon entering. The only thing I could think of was that I didn't want my Sorc to die there, and next thing I knew I had killed the King. Shouldn't happen to me again.
I tried Cows for a while with my HC Furyzon after that, but never felt I was really good at it, despite having both Infinity and Griffon's, hence my question here. Ultimatetly, it might have been a matter of not knowing how to herd large packs properly though.
I tried Cows for a while with my HC Furyzon after that, but never felt I was really good at it, despite having both Infinity and Griffon's, hence my question here. Ultimatetly, it might have been a matter of not knowing how to herd large packs properly though.
Regarding cows:
Javazon might always outperform sorc, but question is which character is easier to play for someone. Well optimized javazon normally always uses merc, but only if she uses Enigma as well. Without Enigma it is pretty much as if you don't have merc at all since he is never where you need him to be to provide aura which is exactly main purpose of Enigma - to position your merc aka aura always where you need him to be to increase your damage output a lot.
Here is what best cow runners are as per my tests:
1. Summon/nova necro (or just summon, they are roughly equal with slightly different playing style)
2. Javazon (with Infinity)
3. Fireball sorc (with Infinity)
4. Nova necro
5. Blizzard sorc
Necro is the most lazy man's character ever and happens to be fastest too. You have incredible meat shield with Revives (or skeletons, though I used revives), you have nice fcr unlike javazon who might feel too old, especially when going for a leg, and all you have to do is gather many cows, kill one of them and then it is bambambam with CE which kills whole screen of cows almost instantly (this is where nova is great, it damages cows enough to make them super easy to kill with only 1-2 casts of CE).
Not completely sure between nova necro and fireball sorc, they seem equalish to me, though I probably just had better map with sorc than with nec. She is very easy too, you practically 3 shot p7 cows in a line.
Blizzard sorc is slightly slower, but still fast and comfortable runner for sure. Not really at a level of other 4 characters, but close enough.
Javazon might always outperform sorc, but question is which character is easier to play for someone. Well optimized javazon normally always uses merc, but only if she uses Enigma as well. Without Enigma it is pretty much as if you don't have merc at all since he is never where you need him to be to provide aura which is exactly main purpose of Enigma - to position your merc aka aura always where you need him to be to increase your damage output a lot.
Here is what best cow runners are as per my tests:
1. Summon/nova necro (or just summon, they are roughly equal with slightly different playing style)
2. Javazon (with Infinity)
3. Fireball sorc (with Infinity)
4. Nova necro
5. Blizzard sorc
Necro is the most lazy man's character ever and happens to be fastest too. You have incredible meat shield with Revives (or skeletons, though I used revives), you have nice fcr unlike javazon who might feel too old, especially when going for a leg, and all you have to do is gather many cows, kill one of them and then it is bambambam with CE which kills whole screen of cows almost instantly (this is where nova is great, it damages cows enough to make them super easy to kill with only 1-2 casts of CE).
Not completely sure between nova necro and fireball sorc, they seem equalish to me, though I probably just had better map with sorc than with nec. She is very easy too, you practically 3 shot p7 cows in a line.
Blizzard sorc is slightly slower, but still fast and comfortable runner for sure. Not really at a level of other 4 characters, but close enough.
Pretty sure an old-timer did something like that with a decked out rabies druid (maybe with beta bramble) and it was still mediocre.
I think his name was started with a p and he had a giraffe or something as his picture.
pre-edit: here's the video, by Pijus. as far as I can tell he doesn't explain his gear. I sent him a PM to see if he still exists and to ask for clarification
I think his name was started with a p and he had a giraffe or something as his picture.
pre-edit: here's the video, by Pijus. as far as I can tell he doesn't explain his gear. I sent him a PM to see if he still exists and to ask for clarification
T72on1
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But that seems like Rabies only. Do that with a Rabies / Fury Druid and you'll get much better results. Not on par with good characters like Blizz Sorc, Javazon, Necro obviously, but if you aren't going for max efficiency (read: don't use it in this tournament) it should work quite well and will be a lot of fun, I'd think.
Btw, I'd think this is the same video. In the comments below the video, there's a gear section: Grief PB, Spirit monarch, Jalal's Mane, Arachnid mesh, Trang's gloves, Aldur's boots, Bramble dusk shroud, SoJ on one finger, BKWB on the other, Mara's amulet, 5 shape shifting skillers.
Edit: I revisited my thread at the Amazon Basin about my Rabies / Fury build. Apparantly I did a test run in the Cow level after beating Baal. According to my notes there, 'Killing speed wasn't on par with builds like a Blizzard Sorc or a LF Zon, but quite nice for a melee build, considering I was on /p8.'
So I'd think that it should work quite well actually.
Btw, I'd think this is the same video. In the comments below the video, there's a gear section: Grief PB, Spirit monarch, Jalal's Mane, Arachnid mesh, Trang's gloves, Aldur's boots, Bramble dusk shroud, SoJ on one finger, BKWB on the other, Mara's amulet, 5 shape shifting skillers.
Edit: I revisited my thread at the Amazon Basin about my Rabies / Fury build. Apparantly I did a test run in the Cow level after beating Baal. According to my notes there, 'Killing speed wasn't on par with builds like a Blizzard Sorc or a LF Zon, but quite nice for a melee build, considering I was on /p8.'
So I'd think that it should work quite well actually.
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oh derp I didn't see that comment, somehow.
I guess it's not a beta bramble, then. I wonder how much more dmg it would do with that bonus. Does anyone know?
I could make one if I wanted to...
I guess it's not a beta bramble, then. I wonder how much more dmg it would do with that bonus. Does anyone know?
I could make one if I wanted to...
Hm. But would it be additive or multiplicative with the synergy? I don't know enough to answer that
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