pure light mf

[Scudstorm]

Re: pure light mf

117 FCR bp is not worth it if it's gonna cost you 2 SoJs. The dmg increase on L/CL by +2 skills is gonna be much more than 8.3% (e.g. on my sorc, it's 14.9% for L and 10.5% for CL; she's 1 synergy point short and uses 1 skiller), and your other skills will simply be stronger without any drawback.

The % increase of +skills does become less significant the more you have, but in full Tal's even if you had 9 skillers (or any setup with a total of +22 skills including BC), the +2 from SoJs would still give 11.1% for L and 8.63% for CL (assuming maxed synergies, +2 LM Tal Orb).

TL/DR: Don't go for 117% FCR in full Tal's unless you don't have a 35% Spirit.

EDIT:

@above post: No it doesn't kill fast, since it's very poor in the -ELR department. If you are not using Griff's, CM or a faceted JMod (this last one is not recommended), then it's a setup that's inferior to full Tal's. Please read our posts thoroughly.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

Please read mine. I have this set-up right now, and yes, it does kill fast.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: pure light mf

Pretty much what scud said, but it is relatively easy to hit 117 without sacrificing any +skills, thanks as mentioned to griffon's, so you should.

Any pure light sorc needs -enemy lightning resist. If you don't have it, you don't kill light immunes at any kind of acceptable rate. Full tal's comes with -15 which makes it better than your setup (but it is still pretty bad for pure light, full tal is a dual-tree setup). You want griffon's. Period. End of story. The other -elr items like CM or faceted jmod that scud mentions will kill your +skill and your FCR. Use griffons.

Use griffon's.

Use griffon's.

Use griffon's.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

It will sacrifice +75% MF then. So much for the idea of an "MF lightning sorc".

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: pure light mf

Kill speed is more important than MF for an "MF" character, unless you are strictly boss running. 100 MF total is fine.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

Which I am. If 100% mf total is fine, then I might as well add a +15 res all jewel into occy, or even better, not even use occy at all. The drops will probably be bad then. Remember that I'm NL, so socketed items are more or less worthless, since all the good runewords are Ladder only.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: pure light mf

Which I am.

Then don't do a light sorc, they aren't good boss runners. Blizz sorc is the best boss runner. Then again, at your gear level you could spec pretty much anything you want and kill bosses without issue. Most of your time is spent teleporting, so the only thing that really matters is that you have 105 FCR for teleport.

Although frankly, if you can afford infinity, boss running is just a waste of your time. Trade value per time invested is pretty terrible from boss running. You get much more value from zone clearing. The only reason to boss run is if you don't yet have any unique/set items to wear. I generally am done boss running within the first week of ladder.

 

[Dodgydave]

Re: pure light mf

Such a an amulet would be spendy,

No more spendy than an Infinity. Heck you can get a 3 lightning/10FCR for about an Ist last ladder on East.

I cannot swap out my SoJs, since i need the +skills

Losing +1 skills wont make or break you at this stage, trust me losing the -eLR on Griffons will hurt you a lot more (but for some reason you seem determined to do that).

switching out coh with a FCR armor would leave resistances miserable

If you use an Um'd Skin you'll only drop 15%AR, that's not world ending.

switching out Shako would leave MF miserable

You realise MF is mainly about killing things quickly rather than putting up bulk MF. Get 100-200MF and slaughter everything is more efficient than getting 500 MF and killing slowly.

switching out Occy would do the same, plus I would loose the +3 skills, so no, I am not missing your suggestions here.

This is the least efficient option for increasing cast rate, but, it is an option, you seemed to believe there were none.

However, the real answer is.... use Griffons, forget about MF.

Tell me one unique/set item you have a realistic chance of MFing from a boss (who you seem to want to run) that can come close to paying for this build?

I'd say I can get better returns walking around behind a bot in the Chaos sanctuary picking up the socketables and lower runes that are left behind.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: pure light mf

I'd say I can get better returns walking around behind a bot in the Chaos sanctuary picking up the socketables and lower runes that are left behind.

True but not any fun. Running chaos yourself however is more fun than boss running, and more profitable.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

@dodgydave you are basing your advises on personal feelings. See here:

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Magic_Find#Magic_Find_Percentages

250% - 300% is the most optimal according to this site, so that's what I was trying to aim for with my build.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: pure light mf

The wiki entry is just based on somebody else's personal experience, and is given generically, without regard for what build is being discussed, and what type of runs are being done. 250-300 is overkill for zone-clearing, you're better off gearing to kill faster, rather than get more useless uniques. For boss running the more MF the merrier, as you only need enough FCR to teleport and enough resists to not die - every other gear bit might as well be MF.

There's no one right answer for everybody, the answer depends on what you're doing, and with what character you are doing it. A light sorc with infinity should absolutely be clearing chaos or other lvl85 zones. As such MF should take a backseat to kill speed.

 

[Dodgydave]

Re: pure light mf

True but not any fun. Running chaos yourself however is more fun than boss running, and more profitable.

Never said it was fun, just would be more efficient! Of course I'd rather run it myself, but then I'd go with a 200%FCR build for real face-melting fun.

@dodgydave you are basing your advises on personal feelings. See here:

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Magic_Find#Magic_Find_Percentages

250% - 300% is the most optimal according to this site, so that's what I was trying to aim for with my build.

Yeah so going from 200 to 300%MF gets you effectively 25% more unique MF. That sounds incredibly optimal, I'd definitely sacrafice Griffons to do that.

I think that somehow proves my point.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

I think that somehow proves my point.

Umm no it doesn't. And your idea with vipermagi over coh is really bad. You will loose around 25 resist all, 25 mf, +1 all skills, 8% DR and around 800 defense *only* for 30% FCR. That's a very bad trade and a retarded advise to give.

There is a point with griffons, since you will hit the 117% breakpoint, making you free to choose when it comes to gloves (since the 20% FCR from magefist won't be neccessary as long as you have Griffon's, as magicrectangle mentioned previously). So you could throw in a couple of 40% chancies instead. This is a sound advise.

 

[Dodgydave]

Re: pure light mf

Umm no it doesn't. And your idea with vipermagi over coh is really bad. You will loose around 25 resist all, 25 mf, +1 all skills, 8% DR and around 800 defense *only* for 30% FCR. That's a very bad trade and a retarded advise to give.

My (and everyone else's) advice is to use Griffons. If you refuse to do that, then yes you will have to make sacrafices to reach the 117% FCR breakpoint.

As for COH v Skin, the loss of skills is a factor, the rest is mainly irrelevant. If your sorc needs defence or PDR you are doing something very, very wrong. You should never, ever be within melee range with a lightning sorc. The resist difference will only be 15 if you Um the Skin and with 30% extra FCR you can drop your Magefists and use Chance Guards if you must and pick up 40% MF there.

There is a point with griffons, since you will hit the 117% breakpoint, making you free to choose when it comes to gloves (since the 20% FCR from magefist won't be neccessary as long as you have Griffon's, as magicrectangle mentioned previously). So you could throw in a couple of 40% chancies instead. This is a sound advise.

I think your are still missing the point of Griffons isn't just the FCR but also the -eLR. Do you understand how this works? It is extremely important for increasing your damage vs broken LIs.

I know you quoted the table previously but do you actually understand how MF works? You do understand the table says moving from 100MF to 300MF won't even double you "true MF", correct?

Again, optimise your character to kill, ie hit breakpoints, get -eLR, +skills etc, then look to add some MF if you must. Don't think I must get 350% MF and sacrafice you kill speed around that.

If you can use WT + Gheeds that will get you 90% MF if you can pick up another 20-50% from charms you are well set.

Plus, still tell me all these sets and uniques you're going to find that have such great value. 1.13 MF is all about killing as many monsters as quickly as possible especially given the realistic chance of finding actual high runes. I know you don't want to believe this but it is true.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

On a perfect vipermagi you will loose 15 +res all, on a not perfect one you could loose +30 res all. Leaving your resistances far from maxed. You will loose a whole lot of damage as well from the -1 to all skills. It's a bad choice over CoH, whether you like it or not.

As for COH v Skin, the loss of skills is a factor, the rest is mainly irrelevant.

Having your resistances maxed, or as close to maxed as possible, is relevant, so I cannot agree with that.

I think your are still missing the point of Griffons isn't just the FCR but also the -eLR. Do you understand how this works? It is extremely important for increasing your damage vs broken LIs.

Broken immunities dies quick, even without Griffons. It probably helps to kill even faster, but extremely important is a bit of an exaggeration.

The resist difference will only be 15 if you Um the Skin and with 30% extra FCR you can drop your Magefists and use Chance Guards if you must and pick up 40% MF there.

You could do the same with CoH. Pick up Griffon's and chanceguards, that will both provide higher MF and higher resistances than Viperskin. CoH is the better choice for this build, regardless of how you flip the coin.

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

Anyhow, I think the final build, after reading all this, will be something like:

Wt, sojs, arach, chancies, coh, spirit, occy/isted, maras, griffon w/facet. This build gives the 117% breakpoint, kill speed, good damage, plenty of-ELR, relatively good MF, and, with a good torch, anni and maras, maxed resistances.

I think this is a close as you can come to a "have it all" build.

 

[Dodgydave]

Re: pure light mf

I completely agree with what you said above and i haven't said Skin is better than COH if you use Griffon's. I said if you don't want to use Griffons you can use Skin to hit the 117% FCR breakpoint. I never said it was better, in fact I said "you will have to make some sacrafices".

As for 30% less resists, I'd recommend not getting a crap Skin, if you can afford and Infinity you can afford a 35% Skin I would like to think.

Yes Griffons and Chance Guards will provide some MF and hit the 117%FCR and provide -eLR but I was providing you with options for not using Griffons since you said you wanted to use Shako instead. That wasn't my crappy idea, it was yours so don't start saying your way is better if you use Griffons because you specifically said you didn't want to earlier. I was just giving you options.

Maybe you are coming around and realising you should be using Griffons. That would be a positive step.

Again, I ask can you list all the sets/uniques this MF is going to quickly find you through boss running?

If you won't listen to me listen to MR when he said:

A light sorc with infinity should absolutely be clearing chaos or other lvl85 zones. As such MF should take a backseat to kill speed.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: pure light mf

Wt, sojs, arach, chancies, coh, spirit, occy/isted, maras, griffon w/facet. This build gives the 117% breakpoint, kill speed, good damage, plenty of-ELR, relatively good MF, and, with a good torch, anni and maras, maxed resistances.

Unless I've missed something, I count 110% FCR. We're still back to needing the 2/10 ammy. If you don't go for really good tertiary mods, you can get 2/10 with assorted resists for an HR or two (at least on ladder).

 

[diabloplayer45]

Re: pure light mf

As for 30% less resists, I'd recommend not getting a crap Skin, if you can afford and Infinity you can afford a 35% Skin I would like to think.

Viperskin is probably a very good choice for a 200% FCR build, in this build, however, it doesn't make much sense. You simply loose to much resistance and damage. It's a bad trade off.

Yes Griffons and Chance Guards will provide some MF and hit the 117%FCR and provide -eLR but I was providing you with options for not using Griffons since you said you wanted to use Shako instead. That wasn't my crappy idea, it was yours so don't start saying your way is better if you use Griffons because you specifically said you didn't want to earlier. I was just giving you options.

It was my crappy idea, but you tried to improve it. We both failed, however.

Unless I've missed something, I count 110% FCR. We're still back to needing the 2/10 ammy. If you don't go for really good tertiary mods, you can get 2/10 with assorted resists for an HR or two (at least on ladder).

I actually count 110% as well. Arach (20%) + Griffon's (25%) + Spirit (35%) + Occulus (30%). This could easily be fixed by swapping out chancies for magefist. This would be a matter of personal preferences, though. Chancies gives 40% MF, where magefist gives the 117% breakpoint but no MF at all. Alternatively, you could swap out Occulus for Hoto (40%) or Eshutas (40%), but then we're back to where we started.

 

[Dodgydave]

Re: pure light mf

Or ditch the Chancies and use Magefist/Trangs.


Edit: Snap, beat me too it. Also, we did improve your crappy idea. You are now using Griffons, it's a big improvement now just get an extra 7%fcr and you're set.