MFO When and Format?

[PhineasB]

Hi All!
This is the time in the calendar when I've hosted MFO for the last few years. Things have changed quite a bit since the last MFO, with Terror Zones and also the level and type of activity among members.

Format: My sense from a MF standpoint is that Terror Zones don't changes things too much (besides making TC87s available for more areas, which isn't an issue for the Areas category), except for Terrorized Andy and Meph--they would give a massive advantage to D2R players, even if those zones only spawn periodically throughout the 10-day period. I think Pindle is also broken with D2R load times.

So I was thinking about swapping Pindle for TZ Andy and Meph, which would mean: (1) Baal, (2) Areas (without Terrorized Andy and Meph), and (3) Terrorized Andy and Meph. For Terrorized Andy and Meph, it would probably make sense to allow players to run other areas throughout the 10 days, but my sense is that the top-5 will likely come from those two targets.

What do people think?

Timing: I'm gone next weekend and then gone for 12 days in early/ September, but could host before or after that, with the following options:

• Friday August 25 - Sunday September 3
• Friday September 22 - Sunday October 1
• Friday September 29 - Sunday October 8
• Friday October 6 - Sunday October 15

It would be helpful to get a sense of interest and if one option is likely to generate broader participation than any others.

 

[Sardonic]

I think it'd be really fun to participate this year (I haven't really done it before), but I just got D2R recently and with a new work schedule incoming this week, I'm going to be hard pressed to get a character that could do this kind of farming early enough to hit the first date specifically.

 

[ziambe]

Just when I was about to ask! Edit: ah i was thinking RFL

For mfo, any of the proposed dates are fine for me.

However as I am still in 1.14d, does category 2 also include non andy/meph terror zones?

 

[PhineasB]

Yes, for people in v1.14 (like me), it would be the traditional A85 areas.

 

[Excalibur]

Thanks for taking the time to host another MFO @PhineasB!

Three suggestions that I have:

• Remove the areas completely and let the participants farm freely. This way, there's no need to complicate things with different scorings and divide players into categories which most times end with the majority being on A85 areas and barely on any other.
• Ban TZ Andariel (maybe Mephisto too) from the Tournament. It's way too easy to obtain items which will ruin the challenge. Players won't have the same opportunity to run her depending on their schedule.
• If older versions are allowed, perhaps the new MF Ritual needs to be left out as well.

Regarding the timing, anything after 20th September would be okay for me.

 

[maxicek]

I don’t see how TZ Andy / Meph are viable on their own. I don’t want to start encouraging people to mess with their system clocks, or for this to become “normal practice.”

I know there is always a certain amount of RNG luck in the MFO, but they fell a bit too much like rolling the dice to me.

 

[LouB]

The August date is out for me. The other thre are fine.

Running Baal should be the same for all of us even when he is terrorized. For any other area I think those with D2R will have an advantage even without running Andy.

I get tired of farming the same areas over and over again, so I like the idea of having an open category where I could just run whatever TZ happens to be up and we could exclude Andy. However, I'm good with whatever everybody else agrees with.

I'd like to propose a separate side contest during the MFO. You get to run TZ Andy no more than 5 hours and see what score you come up with. I think that the scores might be enlightening.

 

[PhineasB]

Thanks for the feedback, all. I like the idea of a single category for Areas, but excluding any drops from Terrorized Andy or Meph. If a couple people really want to run Baal, we can add that category also. And the side contest idea by @LouB also sounds fun, so maybe I'll throw that into the mixer. I'll give it to next weekend to pick when to allow more people to weigh in on availability.

 

[Gynli]

Im busy on both weekends of 22nd and 29th,
so the latter two options are best for me.
ill still join for any of the dates though.

+1 to any area without andy/meph,
but this still allows catacombs and durance right?

 

[PhineasB]

@Gynli Yes, the idea would be to exclude only the Act Boss drops, but drops from the rest of the area would still count.

 

[BBS_Agonistes]

I'm tentatively in! This sounds fun. Thanks for hosting, Phineas!

 

[ffs]

+1 for the latter 2 options, will be gone most of September. Personally I liked the format of allowing all areas with A85 scores irrespective of target as it seemed having a single category got more players involved in a less scattered field. For sure no TZ Andy otherwise I'll be joining no matter the format if MFO happens when I'm back from my vacation.

 

[PhineasB]

Hi All! Given feedback, let's go with the latest of the options, with a single category (Terrorized Andy and Meph drops excluded). I will aim to post a sign up thread in early September before I head out for vacation:

MFO Window: Friday October 6 - Sunday October 15

 

[ziambe]

with a single category (Terrorized Andy and Meph drops excluded)

Im still not clear about what the format will be...and i wonder if it has been pointed out that terror zones seriously messed with the tc system upon which the MFO scoring table is based.

One of the issues is that monsters in terror zones can get much higher tcs, depending on the player's level. I would be VERY surprised if the probabilities of each of those tcs rolling are equal to those of a non-terrozed monster which can drop the same tcs.

 

[maxicek]

I will aim to post a sign up thread in early September before I head out for vacation:

MFO Window: Friday October 6 - Sunday October 15

Sign up when?

 

[PhineasB]

When I’m back from vacation at the end of this weekend

 

[PhineasB]

Im still not clear about what the format will be...and i wonder if it has been pointed out that terror zones seriously messed with the tc system upon which the MFO scoring table is based.

One of the issues is that monsters in terror zones can get much higher tcs, depending on the player's level. I would be VERY surprised if the probabilities of each of those tcs rolling are equal to those of a non-terrozed monster which can drop the same tcs.

I'm back and will post sign up thread shortly. But I realized that I didn't respond to this question. Because the main non-Pindle and non-Baal areas run pre-TZ were A85, monsters could drop all items. I don't recall the drop mechanics precisely (and am probably messing up some mechanics), but monsters with mlvl 84 can drop TC87, I think due to a roll that allows them to jump to higher TC than mlvl. That is rare for sure, and TZs will give better odds of regular monsters dropping TC87 if the clvl brings the base mlvl up. But the odds of regular monster TC87 drops will still be fairly low compared to the boss and champ pack drop odds, which should be the same for TZ and non-TZ A85 areas. So TZs give a slight edge, but I think the consensus was that it would be marginal.

Also, I realized that the consolidated format limits the teams component of MFO from the past. But I will see about letting pairs or triads team up for a joint score competition against other pairs or triads of competitors. If no uptake in the sign up thread, we can skip.

 

[ziambe]

But the odds of regular monster TC87 drops will still be fairly low compared to the boss and champ pack drop odds, which should be the same for TZ and non-TZ A85 areas. So TZs give a slight edge, but I think the consensus was that it would be marginal.

I'm reasonably certain this is not true.

This video explains the [problem with tzs] concept in general

 

[Vildecor]

I'm reasonably certain this is not true.

This video explains the [problem with tzs] concept in general

I did some calculations with the D2DropDash calculator to see how terror zones affected drop chances of items. Drops are calculated based on /players1, 0 MF, and from the drop tables for an Unholy Corpse in WSK 1. Terror Zone drop chances were based on character level 90:

Item                   Odds (Regular)     RR to IKSC     Odds (TZ)     RR to IKSC     RR % Increase
------------------     --------------     ----------     ---------     ----------     -------------
Shadow Dancer          1:118682           10.71          1:116590      10.80          0.886%     
Windforce              1:102831            9.28          1:101018       9.36          0.886%
Mang Song's Lesson     1:308494           27.83          1:303054      28.08          0.885%
Death's Fathom         1:185718           16.76          1:184164      17.06          1.837%

Harlequin Crest        1:45297             4.09          1:44440        4.12          0.753%
Wizardspike            1:25313             2.28          1:24834        2.30          0.753%
Ondal's Wisdom           1:86890             7.84          1:85314        7.90          0.834%
Eschuta's Temper       1:50694             4.57          1:50258        4.66          1.813%

IK Stone Crusher       1:11084             1.00          1:10793        1.00          -----

RR to IKSC = Relative Rarity to Immortal King's Stone Crusher, AKA the MFO points awarded for finding that item. The extra TC 87 drop tables do indeed give more chances of finding TC 87 items, though overall the increase is small the relative rarity compared to finding an IK Stone Crusher actually increases slightly (0.753% compared to 0.886% for example), meaning it is actually slightly harder finding these items in a Terror Zone than finding an IKSC. Overall, it looks like running Terror Zones would cause slight changes to the point system, with the rarer items getting a slightly higher bonus than relatively common items.

We could implement a new MFO point system for Terror Zones in particular, but I find this problematic for a few reasons. One, I don't see the differences in rarity compared to IKSC to be that great to warrant any changes. Also, the drop chances change depending on character level, and settling on a point system would require choosing an arbitrary character level as its base. Lastly, drop chances also would differ if we consider including superuniques and boss monsters. A few quick looks at Baal's terrorized drop chances show that the relative rarity values compared to IKSC end up being very similar to those we already have for A85 (slightly lower, in fact).

Basically, since we are scoring based on the relative rarity of finding a certain S/U item compared to the rarity of finding an IKSC, I don't feel the slightly increased chances for TC87 items dropping in Terror Zones warrants a new point system. That is just my opinion, however.

Edit: fixed comments on what the increase in relative rarity values actually signifies

 

[Timinator]

wasn't it found that character level 91 and higher the amount of TC87s skyrocket? would be good to redo those calculations with a character level 91 or more and see what happens