Mafia Game: Cheers/Frasier Theme

[Moar]

I loved and hated the game. It really messed with my head, but I learned a lot. Reading the mafia threads was very nice. Guess I should consider me lucky to not getting killed the first 2 nights.
ML was really scummy and I was 150% sure he would show scum. I meant it when I said "kill him, then kill me". Luckily you didn't. At one time later I actually hoped that you'd put me out of my missery and let me go read the dead QT. And torture the spiking thing out of Thy.

The masons had the problem that 2 of them were pretty much inactive and Solar got killed early. So it was basically flubb and me and I still don't understand most of what that guy is saying.(Love you anyway flubb.) He moderated it late in the game and talked like a human being and that was when we got our act together and CG and Gwaihir went down.

I'm looking forward to the next game. I hope you do another one with similar evil machanics,Thy. You did a very good job on hosting it and minor mistakes (like counting *ducks*) are not a problem at all. You corrected everything we found without being green and mean.
Thank you again!

And thanks to everybody playing. Good bunch of people. Nice and civilised (except flubb).

 

[Thyiad1]

Thanks, Moar.

I've got a couple of ideas for another game, but I better coordinate better with Commy on the next one.

Did you and the other Masons agree to post your QT thread?

 

[Moar]

Thanks, Moar.

I've got a couple of ideas for another game, but I better coordinate better with Commy on the next one.

Did you and the other Masons agree to post your QT thread?

Looking forward to it!

We haven't discussed that. Fine for me. I made enough of a fool of me in the game thread, so a bit more doesn't matter.
But you'll need to clear it with the others also.

 

[Gwaihir]

I loved and hated the game. It really messed with my head, but I learned a lot. Reading the mafia threads was very nice. Guess I should consider me lucky to not getting killed the first 2 nights.
ML was really scummy and I was 150% sure he would show scum. I meant it when I said "kill him, then kill me". Luckily you didn't. At one time later I actually hoped that you'd put me out of my missery and let me go read the dead QT. And torture the spiking thing out of Thy.

The masons had the problem that 2 of them were pretty much inactive and Solar got killed early. So it was basically flubb and me and I still don't understand most of what that guy is saying.(Love you anyway flubb.) He moderated it late in the game and talked like a human being and that was when we got our act together and CG and Gwaihir went down.

I'm looking forward to the next game. I hope you do another one with similar evil machanics,Thy. You did a very good job on hosting it and minor mistakes (like counting *ducks*) are not a problem at all. You corrected everything we found without being green and mean.
Thank you again!

And thanks to everybody playing. Good bunch of people. Nice and civilised (except flubb).

so I read through the rest of the threads, and yeah. Live thread, dead thread and both mafia threads thought ML was definite scum until he started coming back with guilty results.

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

I was as useless in the mason thread as I was in the game thread - no objection to it being opened up.

And I apologise again to my teammates. I shouldn't have signed up for the game, I couldn't do it justice - and it was a damned good game :yes:

 

[Solar Ice]

I am all for revealing the Masons QT! By all means, do post it. I actually thought that it had already been posted, by now. :O

 

[Caluin Graye]

The masons had the problem that 2 of them were pretty much inactive and Solar got killed early. So it was basically flubb and me and I still don't understand most of what that guy is saying.(Love you anyway flubb.) He moderated it late in the game and talked like a human being and that was when we got our act together and CG and Gwaihir went down.

To be fair, it was Uraj who caught me. I had most of you convinced I was town for quit a while.

Your play goes to show that you don't necessarily need to accurately identify scum in order to have a good town game.

 

[Goryani]

No, more the "Mafiascum do it this way". It could work ok with a seasoned host but this nublet may well be doing things differently and by following the 'norm' ("Norm!"), it could be leading you in the wrong direction.

I agree with you on that part. There is no single "right way" to do things. Even on mafiascum, there are games/hosts that don't do things the "right way" but those games are still played and enjoyed. Diversity and change are good (because they are fun).

Originally the Waiters were a mafia team. "You can't have half the town as mafia.", I was told and so I changed it.

Sign me up! You can most definitely have over half the town as mafia. TC even did it! OK, that game doesn't count since mafia weren't really mafia. But in all seriousness, a game setup of town vs mafiaA vs mafiaB vs mafiaC can easily have half the town as mafia. It will be bloody, feature mafia on mafia action and leave town feeling overwhelmed. But it can work.

None of the cops got the whole picture. Each one got partial info (IE alignment (pro/anti town), faction (Angry Wife, Waiter, Barfly, Jilted), role (Jailkeeper etc). That was very deliberate. With the drinks spiking, it gave the opportunity to mess them up as much as with the mafia.

The whole picture isn't needed as each cop was capable of finding mafia. Aside from the cop killed N1, each one did. Five investigators caught five mafia.

The drink spiking could have messed with things, but the odds are against that scenario. Only 1 investigator could be spiked each night, leaving at least 4 unspiked to investigate normally. For that one investigator to be spiked, two separate pro-town roles had to each target the same power role. I haven't looked in detail at the night actions, but I'd bet that no mason spiked a claimed power role with a night action after the claim (spiking doesn't sound helpful, so they instinctively shy away from proven power roles). Taken together, the odds of the 4-5 unspiked investigators finding mafia outweigh the odds of a single spiked investigator mislynching a townie. Also, as we saw, the odds of an unspiked investigator finding an erroneously cleared mafia due to a spiked drink is equal to, if not higher, than the mafia being falsely cleared in the first place.

For maximum shenanigans, I think the ALL the masons should be able to spike drinks. Instead of Martin Crane picking one of the 5 drinks to spike. he see's who each spiked drink is served to. Maybe have 5 players, each watching who a different drink is served to.

I undoubtedly made it harder for myself by noting the post numbers etc, but I wanted that info to be there. I sincerely hope that was useful and you all bug other hosts to do it.

I like that bit of info. Thank you. I'd recommend moving away from the treestump, vote2, and "votes only count at the end of a post" issues in the future, but I agree with pcm: it was kinda fun to watch.

 

[Laarz]

I loved and hated the game. It really messed with my head, but I learned a lot. Reading the mafia threads was very nice. Guess I should consider me lucky to not getting killed the first 2 nights.
ML was really scummy and I was 150% sure he would show scum. I meant it when I said "kill him, then kill me". Luckily you didn't. At one time later I actually hoped that you'd put me out of my missery and let me go read the dead QT. And torture the spiking thing out of Thy.

The masons had the problem that 2 of them were pretty much inactive and Solar got killed early. So it was basically flubb and me and I still don't understand most of what that guy is saying.(Love you anyway flubb.) He moderated it late in the game and talked like a human being and that was when we got our act together and CG and Gwaihir went down.

I'm looking forward to the next game. I hope you do another one with similar evil machanics,Thy. You did a very good job on hosting it and minor mistakes (like counting *ducks*) are not a problem at all. You corrected everything we found without being green and mean.
Thank you again!

And thanks to everybody playing. Good bunch of people. Nice and civilised (except flubb).

Just tell flubb, *No more Makers Mark* until he behaves, that usually does it:wink:

 

[Goryani]

I completely agree with Gory, the strongest town power was 5 confirmed masons - that is just scary, they were a bigger voting block than even the mafia factions.

Large mason groups are super super super powerful. Super. I don't think the waiters were mod confirmed townie, but they played like it.

PCM - I hate your role with a passion. See the NCIS game, when I was a neutral mafia spy - I had a real hard time figuring out what exactly I should do with it and what is fair to play. When that role is pro-town, it can break the game really easily. Note, this is nothing against you, you did a really good job with it. I just think it is really questionable for mafia to not be able to trust a mod supplied thread. I remember some other game where the mafia even created a second thread to avoid a possible eavesdropper, and it just gets to be not as fun.

The second mafia thread was in the very same NCIS game. I created it.

 

[pharphis]

whoo. Read through all but the mason thread. I hope that one isn't too huge.

I've learned a lot. I can't believe so many people (including myself) kept missing Gwaihir's slip-ups.

I do distinctly remember myself sort of passing him off as less important because he said a few things along the lines of. . .
"I think Ph is being honest. I was doc in such and such and trying to come up with a good claim to not be killed."
What a jerk

I want in on this triple mafia team game, too

Throughout the whole game I was just so sure that one of the masons had to be scum. they just HAD to. Town felt more and more OP as time went on.

It'll certainly be interesting when I get to play as mafia. I predict doing awfully

Once again, this was an awesome game, and I agree with Gory (and the others who said so - can't remember) that diversity is really fun. I mean, this is my 3rd game, with only the first one being a pretty vanilla game, and this has been extra fun because not everyone knows what to expect. It wasn't until ML died and pointed it out later on that the drinks must be a role reversal, and that really says something for the structure of the game, imo.
Being less experienced definitely makes it more fun when we can ask other players for their thoughts on the mechanics and the likelihood of such and such role existing, and with totally new stuff it just gets better and better.

Damn, I just want to congratulate Gwaihir on his claim once again. He had me believing it right away, and when it came from a balance perspective it made even more sense.

 

[Solar Ice]

whoo. Read through all but the mason thread. I hope that one isn't too huge.

Waiters thread is 343 posts long

 

[Goryani]

True. But while mafia voted for the other faction, there was no cross kill between factions, and that definitely would have come up if mafia had not been taken out so efficiently. And with tons of ways to block deaths (4!) getting kills on power roles was hard.

^ This. Early on, I was more worried about getting targeted by the other mafia team than investigated by a cop.

Also, any special reason you put in the vote 2 mechanic Thy?
It is a very interesting mechanic, not sure who it helps. Lynching a cop claim allows the town to actually productively spends days which is nice for town. But mafia or mason input can really change how it goes, and with town usually being the ones who get lynched early , it makes 2 townie lynches much more likely at the start.

Mafia most definitely made best use of the vote 2 mechanic. Every time a mafioso was lynched using vote 2, a townie was lynched with vote 1. Mafia were able to stop vote 2 in order to save one of their own: both directly (CG saving Jcakes) and indirectly (Jcakes not voting coju, earning a save by coju).

Note: I did argue for it not becoming a simple majority vote near the end, thought it would end up getting mafia lynched as the masons were as big a team as we were. Also rule change in middle of game is hard to deal with.

Vote 2 being a simple majority with a 5 team mason group..... /shudder.

 

[Goryani]

I did it because mainly I was concerned that with that many players, the game could trundle on slowly for eight weeks with everyone getting fed up by the end. Yes, I can mod-kill people but I felt that the second vote would give the players an opportunity to take out 'no brainer should be killed' players. EG the silent. The vote requirement was deliberately high to try and ensure that it wasn't a basic second lynch.

I agree with this sentiment. Some games just aren't bloody enough and they slow down at the end. I liked the vote 2 mechanic. Not for every game, but it worked in this one.

The last two or three days were VERY quiet with posts in here and in the QT and I feared the game dying rather than ending.

At some point, words become unimportant because almost everything is known or claimed. After mass claim day, there is only so much worth talking about. It's just a "feature" of highly themed games. Shortening the game day to 24 hours or starting night after a lock isn't uncommon.

Furthermore, the best way to ensure vibrant conversation is to give mafia latitude to lie. Gwaihir faking a coroner type role or CG faking a bomb isn't as conversation inducing as if they claimed Niles, role cop, and gave a list of investigations. Even little things, like pharphis 4x then 6x claims were discussion points.

 

[Jcakes1]

@Thy: One question for you, why did you decide to reveal all Night Kills?

 

[Goryani]

so I read through the rest of the threads, and yeah. Live thread, dead thread and both mafia threads thought ML was definite scum until he started coming back with guilty results.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure each of those threads thought ML was scum even AFTER he had guilty results. More than one person thought ML was bussing me or was trying to save Mal and got lucky with either me and/or frozzzen.

Waiters thread is 343 posts long

Proof or it didn't happen.

 

[pharphis]

It was disappointing when the dead thread went very abruptly silent. Sort of like the game thread I suppose
I really enjoyed reading that one on all of the crazy ideas you guys had.

I never thought ML was scum :/ (except maybe when he first claimed - didn't stop me from targeting him for a save, though)

 

[pancakeman]

I had clear evidence that Mal was scum so ML's result really confused me. I was trying to work out exactly how to accuse Mal without accusing ML for several days, and eventually getting locked meant I no longer had to worry about it. In a way me getting lynched was the best thing the town could have done, because there was really no way to refute the confessions of a dying pancake. It would have been just swell if coju would have saved me afterward, but I guess you can't have it all. By the way coju, I will have my revenge.

 

[Thyiad1]

@Thy: One question for you, why did you decide to reveal all Night Kills?

Didn't actually occur to me NOT to.

There's a few things I'd change about the game in retrospect, but that probably isn't one of them. I personally dislike "X is dead. That's all folks!" so I'd likely still do the same again.

In the same way, I dislike vanilla townies and so I tried to ensure everyone had a role. I wouldn't use the treestump role again and must apologise to nulio for not giving him something more exciting.

PCM's Eavesdropper did get a tad stiched up. I came up with the idea but didn't entirely follow through very well on how it was going to work. So he had the info and basically got gagged with "You can't actually post this.". I was hoping he could 'sway' the town. Considering he got a random bit of info from (what he didn't know were) two teams, he did well I thought.

It was amusing the first post he got was about time zones and I recall another being the mafia reviewing other players. TC told me off for not removing the names of the people being discussed in that post. I refer you to "Didn't actually occur to me.".

I was relieved that no one worked out what PCM could do because the mafia bypassing his role would have been a gigantic pain.

 

[coju]

By the way coju, I will have my revenge.

We'll see, we'll see.