LK vs Travincal vs Cows - runefinding guide

[ffs]

@abxl it's more that I haven't done it, so I can't give specific instructions anyway but they're easy to find. However, note that you can easily avoid losing a map when accidentally switching difficulty -- just don't save and exit when that happens, but instead force-quit the game (via terminal command or task manager) and you will have your previous map still intact.

 

[T72on1]

Welcome here .

As @ffs mentions, it's not allowed, and a misclick can be countered through force-quitting the game.

Note that <removed> also isn't allowed here.

 

[abxl]

Ye I respect that you guys got some sort of rules that you stick to but well imo as long as theres no competition between players anyone can play however he wants, for example if anyone else were straightly cheating and enjoying that I wouldn't really mind because it has totally no impact on me.

I'm just a random guy who came to ask for advice and I thought that even though <removed> or saving map seeds isn't allowed, it shouldn't be forbidden for you guys to talk about it

 

[ffs]

@abxl You're totally right, it's just that whenever things that are against SPF rules are discussed, people here tend to clarify that rather one time too often than not often enough. No offense meant by that, of course you can play the game in whatever way you wish, as long as your participation here (posting, tournaments, trading etc.) is in accordance with the rules.

 

[Drystan1]

Then we'll get dozens of one-off "members" joining simply to ask for advice on hacking/cheating, and then only return to ask about more cheating advice. That's what google is for, not us. There are (/were?) other forums that advocate cheating: check with them as well. Read the rules in the stickies: those, we can help with.
[/grumpypants]

 

[abxl]

@Drystan - I don't understand why would you be coming here with such negative attitude. If you don't want to help, just skip that thread, you're not really needed here as @ffs turned out to be helpful enough. I understand your point of one-off "members" but it's a common "issue" with other forums as well, especially for someone who only waits for an opportunity to be rude towards random people at the forum. The way life works, sometimes you give an advice and sometimes someone else gives you an advice, if you don't want to participate, then don't.

 

[Drystan1]

If you don't want to help, just skip that thread

If you don't want to follow the rules here, just don't come here. Advice there too.
Also, you're not needed here, as in your 4 posts, you have discussed ways to cheat and a program considered a hack here, clearly described by the stickies and rules. Contribute something that follows the rules, and then I might be more polite.

 

[abxl]

1. The fact that a group of few people considers something a hack, doesn't make it a hack, <removed> is a mod that doesn't really give anyone any advantage.
2. Didn't really know that talking about mods is forbidden here. That's called a censure. If there's a rule about that, my bad. Other than that I fully follow the rules.
3. Even though my D2 knowledge might not be good enough yet to be helpful for people that play the game for years, I do try to help everyone who asks me for advice, whenever my knowledge is sufficient. That's mostly not connected with D2 as I'm basically a new player that is trying to gain knowledge to be able to share with people in the future.
4. No one is forcing you to help me, @ffs answered my questions and i'm happy with that and thankful. Your participation in this threat is only just some insults that i'm an ugly cheater and that's it.

 

[Drystan1]

1. The fact that a group of few people considers something a hack, doesn't make it a hack, <removed> is a mod that doesn't really give anyone any advantage.

This isn't democracy here. The mods (moderators) make/alter/remove rules that help the community run smoothly. The mods decide based on how much controversy and difficulty this creates for them to moderate, and also take into consideration the users feedback - but ultimately, the mods/admins here decide.
The stance within the forum rules is that <removed> does go beyond what we consider legit, and is classed by these forums at this stage as a hack. You say no? The forum mods have said yes, and most of the forum have accepted that. If you join a community, group or forum, you join their system; you don't go in and tell people how it should be run, or go against their rules. Until you know enough about the group to begin with, and know the people well enough to know how they work.

I have used several mods/hacks(<removed>), but only on characters that have no interaction with this forum (they are tainted by other non-spf approved mods to begin with.) I do this because I know what the rules are, and keep everything separate. I do not ask about it, I do not post about it, I do not mention their drops, and I have a naming system that identifies which of my characters are tainted by the hacks - they are completely separate. But then, I have posted about most of my chars I've made by forum rules, items I've found, items (HC) I've given away, tournaments, D2-game based questions, etc over 12 years or so since joining.
Advantages of <removed>: Infinite stash, infinite respecs at will, fake ubers/DClone events (easy torch/anni farming.) No advantage, let alone the easy access to the unique charms?

I fully follow the rules.

How do you borrow a map from another character ?

Didn't really know that talking about mods is forbidden here.

Ignorance [of the rules] is no excuse [to break the rules.] They are clearly stated in the stickies. Read them. Do not claim to me that you "fully follow the rules" when you have not read them, nor follow them by asking for something the rules specifically state is not allowed.

Edit: I'm done here. Back to LK vs Trav Vs Cows and runefinding. Apologies for the derailment.

 

[abxl]

Other than that I fully follow the rules.

If you want to quote me, at least add a full quote

<removed> doesn't give you advantage compared to what you're having on battle.net, that's what I meant, infinite respecs are just for testing purposes.

Also asked about borrowing a map from another character because that's what is mentioned in the videos posted in the first post. How do you assume that I wouldn't use it for testing as well ? How come no one is offended by a thread author using maps from other characters and everyone is offended by some1 asking about that ?

None of my characters are connected with the forum, i'm not taking part in any tournaments, i'm not posting anything about my characters nor items I found just because as you said my characters are "tainted". There's nothing to be jealous about.

I'm extremely happy for you to be here spending 12 years or even 30 but I just found a guide interesting and I had some questions and that's it.

 

[ffs]

@abxl I agree @Drystan's responses may have been somewhat harsh and that you only asked questions. But you have to understand it gets annoying to explain why <removed> isn't allowed over and over again -- in particular if you've been here for more than a decade. So please just accept and respect the fact that <removed> is not discussed here. That includes personal opinions on whether or not it gives you advantages. Your questions are answered, so I hope that concludes this and we can move on now.

 

[abxl]

Ye I'm done as well, thanks for help and understanding @ffs once again, we can move on now indeed

 

[drmalawi]

I have done simulations of rune drops using random number generators and what not, in Octave - a computing software. I have mostly studied Travincal (players 3) and the LK chests on players 7/8

I have obtained probability distribution functions (histograms) and some 90-95% probability limits for certain things.

In this video, some of the results are shown

Spoiler: LK superchest simulation

If anyone might be interested, I can make a write-up here and add more results and also publish the programs and raw data.

Also, if there is anything else that might be worth to investigate, please let me know.

 

[Gripphon1]

I updated the guide with small details. I updated these two parts:

How many cows are there on Cow Level?

Good question. All the test we have done suggest number varies anywhere between 350 and 500, so you could aim to kill like 400 cows per run if you do have some leftovers, but still pay attention to herd them right and kill them. Overall there is no reliable way to determine how many cows do you really kill because it depends on character, on your playing style and possibly map (not confirmed!). Real number of killed cows can be slightly below 400 or even like 450. I can share a methods how to estimate number of cows.

Basically, there is no reliable way of determining number of cows, we can only estimate number of them.

What characters to use for Cow running?

Recent tests showed there are plenty of characters you could use, you just have to pick:
Javazon, Nova necro, Summoner necro, Blizzard sorc, Lightning sorc, Nova sorc, Fireball sorc, Fissure druid, Hammerdin, Trapper...

To read more about my tests check this post. In general I recommend whole thread for reading since it is full of great info. There are more tests done by other members as well. Here is some idea what to expect:

Potentially best runners: Javazon, PN/Nova necro, Summon necro
Great runners: Nova sorc, Blizzard sorc, Trapper, Fireball sorc
Could be very good: Fissure druid

Some characters are not yet tested like Lightning sorc, but I'll update this table with time. Idea is to present some numbers character can achieve. As you can see, you have plenty of characters to choose from. Which one is the best? Depends on your own playing style! Best results I know of come from p7 Javazon which means she could be the queen of cows. However same is not true for my own playing style, I achieved by best results with PN/Nova necro instead. So, depends on your playing style and your gear. For some best is Javazon, for some necro and for you might be Nova sorc. Who knows! I'd say most important factor for running cows is to be comfortable running and enjoying the experience to keep going.

At first I presented my tests giving some "ranking" to characters. Now I removed that and instead presented characters in other way. Idea is for every player to see for himself what is to his liking when running cows or any other area.

 

[T72on1]

The one and only Gripphon !!! Do you plan to play some D2 again?

 

[Carny]

Great Read. It was very informative seeing all those numbers and comparisons.
However the only place I'm missing in here is CS seal glitch Rune Farming.

Before I tried it out i was also a huge supporter of LK chest runs and Trav. But then i tried out CS seal farming and saw a lot of rune drops which also resulted in many HR drops. I finished my enigma there within a few days. I dont have any empirical numbers but fast runs take about 70-80 seconds and the return seems to be about 2-3 runes per run. Sometimes you get 0 runes, another time 5.

It's also very good to farm base items since all kills are with 0 mf. I would say i got a HR about every 2-2,5 hours atleast. I got 3 sur 1 Lo and 6 Ohm after 4 days with about 4-5 hours played per day. My runs were even slow at that time cause i did it with a blizz sorc (takes about 2 - 2,5 min). Now with an enigma i do it with a hammerdin in about 70-75s + 10s itemscanning. I can imagine a full geared lightning sorc can do it even faster.
Maybe someone from the SPF can share their opinion on this compared to lk/trav.

 

[EatSleepDiablo]

@Carny. Your post is pretty coincidental. I planned to post a screenshot tonight on my HR results from running a Hammerdin in CS (P7) from Lvl 87+- to Lvl 96. My MF is higher (about 325), and the runes come from all sources, not just the seal glitch. Zod, 3 Chams, 2 Jahs, 1 Ber, 1 Sur, etc. etc.

Before tripping the last seal, I tele to the entrance and agro as many monsters as possible. Nothing crazier than picking up Jahs lying in a corner...

 

[ffs]

CS is a good rune farming area especially when focusing on finger mages (and only Vizier seal) which have a 3.59x higher rune drop rate than other A85 monsters. So yes with a lucky streak it can deliver a lot. Generally however, LK, Trav, Cows and also Arcane Sanctuary are much more efficient (when only going for runes and disregarding things like MF and XP). AS is not included in the guide because it was only truly tested last RFL (when @Gripphon was not playing). There is some info on it here. /plug

 

[Gripphon1]

I did some theorycrafting about CS running somewhere and concluded it is inferior to 3 areas mentioned in here, however not by much, It might be worth going back to the subject to explore more about it. Killing ghosts along the way and focusing Vizier seal is ideal for it. Blizzard sorceress is the fastest CS killer for the job, although hammerdin is generally decent choice as well. I believe numbers to reach are around 30 seconds, but I can't remember the figures now. I know sorceress does 2 seal running plus bosspacks in ~45 to 50 seconds.

As for Sanctuary running I'll leave the topic to someone else to explore more about it, write thread about it and I can then link it up in here.

 

[Carny]

I did some theorycrafting about CS running somewhere and concluded it is inferior to 3 areas mentioned in here, however not by much, It might be worth going back to the subject to explore more about it. Killing ghosts along the way and focusing Vizier seal is ideal for it. Blizzard sorceress is the fastest CS killer for the job, although hammerdin is generally decent choice as well. I believe numbers to reach are around 30 seconds, but I can't remember the figures now. I know sorceress does 2 seal running plus bosspacks in ~45 to 50 seconds.

When you're talking about those numbers I assume it's on p1 or? Seal glitch farming is normally done at p7 for max droprates and clears about 80% of CS in 70-80s. Blizz sorc loses time in this tactic due to de seis always being cold and infector being cold immune every few games.