How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

[logoutzero]

How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

So, I've basically never played a Barb. I decided that I had enough decent stuff in stashes to at least get him into Nightmare. Well, I just started Act II Hell. So far, so good. Build is basically:

20 Battle Cry (for hitting things, and taking half damage)
20 Battle Orders (for living)
20 Concentrate (for killing)
11 Axe Mastery (currently working here)
1 point for the cool stuff.

He's at level 76 (is this good for Act II Hell for a melee?) with 2500 life/300 mana after buffs, and maxed resists.

Here's what I beat stuff with, had it on since the second I could equip it:

Butcher's Pupil
Small Crescent
One Hand Damage: 141 - 225
Durability: 18 of 24
Required Level: 52
Required Strength: 115
Required Dexterity: 83
Fingerprint: 0x4aef8a74
Item Level: 75
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Indestructible
+30% Increased Attack Speed
193% Enhanced Damage
Adds 30 - 50 Damage
35% Deadly Strike
25% Chance of Open Wounds
Required Level +7

An Ethereal one would have been nice, but meh, I use what I got. LCS says 990-1559 before Venom and Might. So, that's straight Concentrate damage. Is that enough to finish the game? I mean, he kills reasonably for me, but I have nothing to compare him to. Basically, he is sturdy as can be, and that's a huge plus for me. Do you think I need something bigger? Between the 35% Deadly Strike and the 26% from Mastery, I figure about 45-50% of those hits do roughly double damage, and I think that's really what is saving me. With the 30% from gloves, and 45% IAS on 'Treachery' he swings at 10 frames, so, that damage (which I seem to think is a bit low) gets out somewhat rapidly.

Anyways, let me know what you think. I think I have about 100 PGems if there's a better weapon in that price range that you can suggest. Thanks!

 

[cheerupemokid10]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

I would say that if it's working for you then keep going with it. Someone will probably come along and say that your level is a little low since I believe a lot try to finish out NM at the level you're at. Basically, the higher you are, the better chance of you hitting them and them not hitting you. But again, if you're doing all the killing and you're not dying, keep going for it.

I know oath axes are pretty popular among the barb crowd (especially trav runners for the demon %ed mod) and can be made from pretty cheap runes: shael+pul+mal+lum. For what that's worth, you might reach considerably higher damage in a BA base and still stick with your axe mastery. You'd lose out on the deadly strike but get a nice +50 to ias for a pretty fast weapon.

Other option might be a Ribcracker. The +% def bonus helps boost your defense up that much more and apparently upped ones do nice damage. You'll lose your shield in that case, but maybe the added defense will make up the difference? I can't say from experience though... Either way, GL with finishing up. Those PI's are a real pain!

 

[coju]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

I have for my ww'er (at level 77 act 3 hell)

Butcher's Pupil 
Small Crescent 
One Hand Damage: 135 - 216 
Durability: 20 of 24 
Required Level: 52 
Required Strength: 115 
Required Dexterity: 83 
Fingerprint: 0x7737124e 
Item Level: 49 
Version: Expansion 1.10+ 
Indestructible 
+30% Increased Attack Speed 
178% Enhanced Damage 
Adds 30 - 50 Damage 
35% Deadly Strike 
25% Chance of Open Wounds 
Required Level +7 

Oath 
Small Crescent 
ShaelPulMalLum 
One Hand Damage: 188 - 297 
Durability: 13 of 13 
Required Level: 49 
Required Strength: 105 
Required Dexterity: 73 
Fingerprint: 0xfc6ac90d 
Item Level: 79 
Version: Expansion 1.10+ 
30% Chance to cast level 20 Bone Spirit on striking 
Indestructible 
+50% Increased Attack Speed 
230% Enhanced Damage 
+75% Damage to Demons 
+100 to Attack Rating against Demons 
Prevent Monster Heal 
+10 to Energy 
+13 Magic Absorb 
Level 17 Iron Golem (14/14 Charges) 
Level 16 Heart of Wolverine (20/20 Charges) 
[B]Ethereal[/B]

Only hitting at around 55%, but still kills quite nicely. Have thought about running p8 pindle in nm for a few more levels, but all is reasonable enough.

 

[zaphodbrx]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

Butchers pupil is a nice weapon for nightmare, though you'd need to up it to get through in hell.
I suggest not placing so many points in battle cry. Put them in the mastery instead. imo battle cry is a one point wonder with greatly diminishing returns.

Indestructible weapons can not spawn ethereal, so you needn't beat yourself up.
IMO, one of the best weapons for untwinked is Obedience ( HelKoThulEthFal ). The runes are easily obtained by running the countess a bit and sooner or later you will find a white thresher you can take to Larzuk's. 370 ed 45 cb is too good to pass up. Ctc enchant also solves your attack rating problem if any.
This is assuming you want to go two handed of course, and to be honest I don't see any reason why not. Concentrate already puts your defense rating very high, and you can max shout for even more defence ( leaving points out of battle cry ).

Oath requires some luck with the hellforge, but still doable untwinked.
Windhammer ,Bonehew, and IK maul are Hell Mephisto droppable, maybe you can look into that.

If you want some numbers, a concentrate IK barb ( full set ), gets to about 4000 including elemental damage. Obedience thresher can get to about 2500.

 

[logoutzero]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

But again, if you're doing all the killing and you're not dying, keep going for it.

I think the Battle Cry is holding him together, it's pretty rough to hit without it active, but with it active, there are no problems.

I know oath axes are pretty popular among the barb crowd...

I'll look into this, but I know I don't quite have the Runeage for it yet.

Other option might be a Ribcracker.

This Barb actually started out with the intention on becoming a WW Ribcracker. Thought adding the Rattlecage and Goblin Toe for 100% CB at 4 frames per hit would be great fun, but I didn't really enjoy it. Never thought to try the staff with Concentrate. So, I tried it out, and even though the numbers look higher, the slower speed, loss of Deadly Strike, and loss of a shield really cramped it. But, it was worth a shot!

Either way, GL with finishing up. Those PI's are a real pain!

PI's so far have been limited to Stoneskin undead bosses, and ghosts. The ghosts go down super easy, even with 1 point in Berzerk. It helps to have an 'Insight' moron in this scenario!

I have for my ww'er (at level 77 act 3 hell)

Only hitting at around 55%, but still kills quite nicely. Have thought about running p8 pindle in nm for a few more levels, but all is reasonable enough.

So Concentrate has way more skill ED%, and I've got the Battle Cry to help with accuracy, so, I should be good, if you are good. Unless you are wearing 'Fortitude' or something like that?

So it seems like I am right on par?

Edit:

Butchers pupil is a nice weapon for nightmare, though you'd need to up it to get through in hell.
I suggest not placing so many points in battle cry. Put them in the mastery instead. imo battle cry is a one point wonder with greatly diminishing returns.

Indestructible weapons can not spawn ethereal, so you needn't beat yourself up.
IMO, one of the best weapons for untwinked is Obedience ( HelKoThulEthFal ). The runes are easily obtained by running the countess a bit and sooner or later you will find a white thresher you can take to Larzuk's. 370 ed 45 cb is too good to pass up. Ctc enchant also solves your attack rating problem if any.
This is assuming you want to go two handed of course, and to be honest I don't see any reason why not. Concentrate already puts your defense rating very high, and you can max shout for even more defence ( leaving points out of battle cry ).

Oath requires some luck with the hellforge, but still doable untwinked.
Windhammer ,Bonehew, and IK maul are Hell Mephisto droppable, maybe you can look into that.

If you want some numbers, a concentrate IK barb ( full set ), gets to about 4000 including elemental damage. Obedience thresher can get to about 2500.

I upped it to Elite before I equipped it, I was looking through the stash and happened to see it, caught my eye for some reason. I was at 52 miraculously, so it worked out nicely.

The 19 skill points in Battle Cry was/is a test. He's wearing an IK Helm with 2xSols and a Wyrm's Amulet of Life Everlasting (23). The idea was to get the mob's damage down as low as I could before PDR, so that I could more easily attain a high PDR setup. It worked great in NM, took practically no damage. I don't think the ~40 PDR is enough in Hell, and I've been thinking about losing the Battle Cry as a result. Although I can't foresee a huge difference between 12 Mastery and 21...

I really like having a shield. Even though I'm not blocking, I am using an upped "The Ward" with a P.Diamond in it for +66 @res. Without it, even Faded, I just barely have positive resists. This is HC, so that's a very bad thing.

4k damage for full IK, or ~1800 getting doubled ~50% of the time, they are pretty close. I guess this Axe is pretty decent after all. Thanks!

 

[coju]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

So Concentrate has way more skill ED%, and I've got the Battle Cry to help with accuracy, so, I should be good, if you are good. Unless you are wearing 'Fortitude' or something like that?

So it seems like I am right on par?

No fortitude. I'm HC also, btw.

Gear/Stats:

Spoiler

Name:       BYOB
Class:      Barbarian
Experience: 566005002
Level:      77

            Naked/Gear
Strength:   107/125
Dexterity:  97/97
Vitality:   261/261
Energy:     10/30
HP:         1211/1298
Mana:       86/142
Stamina:    404/404
Defense:    24/844
AR:         470/853

Fire:       158/118/58 (Actual in Hell are 79/-5(or-9)/75/2)
Cold:       70/30/-30
Lightning:  161/121/61
Poison:     81/41/-19

MF:         82       Block:      13
GF:         37
FR/W:       40
FHR:        45
IAS:        80
FCR:        0

Bash: 1/1
Leap: 1/1
Double Swing: 0/0
Stun: 1/1
Double Throw: 0/0
Leap Attack: 1/1
Concentrate: 1/1
Frenzy: 0/0
Whirlwind: 20/20
Berserk: 1/1

Sword Mastery: 0/0
Axe Mastery: 12/12
Mace Mastery: 0/0
Pole Arm Mastery: 0/0
Throwing Mastery: 0/0
Spear Mastery: 0/0
Increased Stamina: 1/1
Iron Skin: 1/1
Increased Speed: 1/1
Natural Resistance: 1/1

Howl: 1/3
Find Potion: 1/3
Taunt: 0/0
Shout: 20/22
Find Item: 1/3
Battle Cry: 0/0
Battle Orders: 20/22
Grim Ward: 0/0
War Cry: 0/0
Battle Command: 1/3

Oath
Small Crescent
ShaelPulMalLum
One Hand Damage: 188 - 297
Durability: 13 of 13
Required Level: 49
Required Strength: 105
Required Dexterity: 73
Fingerprint: 0xfc6ac90d
Item Level: 79
Version: Expansion 1.10+
30% Chance to cast level 20 Bone Spirit on striking
Indestructible
+50% Increased Attack Speed
230% Enhanced Damage
+75% Damage to Demons
+100 to Attack Rating against Demons
Prevent Monster Heal
+10 to Energy
+13 Magic Absorb
Level 17 Iron Golem (14/14 Charges)
Level 16 Heart of Wolverine (20/20 Charges)
Ethereal
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: Shael Rune
Socketed: Pul Rune
Socketed: Mal Rune
Socketed: Lum Rune

Shael Rune
Required Level: 29
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: +20% Increased Attack Speed
Armor: +20% Faster Hit Recovery
Shields: +20% Faster Block Rate

Pul Rune
Required Level: 45
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: +75% Damage to Demons
+100 to Attack Rating against Demons
Armor: +30% Enhanced Defense
Shields: +30% Enhanced Defense

Mal Rune
Required Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Prevent Monster Heal
Armor: Magic Damage Reduced by 7
Shields: Magic Damage Reduced by 7

Lum Rune
Required Level: 37
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: +10 to Energy
Armor: +10 to Energy
Shields: +10 to Energy

Butcher's Pupil
Small Crescent
One Hand Damage: 135 - 216
Durability: 20 of 24
Required Level: 52
Required Strength: 115
Required Dexterity: 83
Fingerprint: 0x7737124e
Item Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Indestructible
+30% Increased Attack Speed
178% Enhanced Damage
Adds 30 - 50 Damage
35% Deadly Strike
25% Chance of Open Wounds
Required Level +7

String of Ears
Demonhide Sash
Defense: 111
Durability: 22 of 22
Required Level: 29
Required Strength: 20
Fingerprint: 0xdc1052e4
Item Level: 59
Version: Expansion 1.10+
8% Life stolen per hit
+176% Enhanced Defense
+15 Defense
Damage Reduced by 13%
Magic Damage Reduced by 12
+10 Maximum Durability

Coral Large Charm
Large Charm
Required Level: 18
Fingerprint: 0x22a674f3
Item Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Lightning Resist +11%

Immortal King's Pillar
War Boots
Defense: 125
Durability: 22 of 24
Required Level: 31
Required Strength: 125
Fingerprint: 0x35be392
Item Level: 71
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+40% Faster Run/Walk
+110 to Attack Rating
+75 Defense
+44 to Life
Set (2 items): 25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Set (3 items): +2 to Combat Skills (Barbarian Only)
Set (4 items): +160 Defense
Set (5 items): Half Freeze Duration

(2 items): +50 to Attack Rating

Blood Eye
Ring
Required Level: 34
Fingerprint: 0x3fc3dfe4
Item Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+3 to Maximum Damage
+111 to Attack Rating
Lightning Resist +12%
Damage Reduced by 1
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
10% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Nokozan Relic
Amulet
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x123b0d6a
Item Level: 59
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
Adds 3 - 6 Fire Damage
+10% to Maximum Fire Resist
Fire Resist +50%
+3 to Light Radius

Beast Loop
Ring
Required Level: 47
Fingerprint: 0xa71981f8
Item Level: 59
Version: Expansion 1.10+
8% Chance to cast level 5 Chain Lightning on attack
+110 to Attack Rating
4% Mana stolen per hit
+13 to Strength
+4 to Mana
Poison Resist +11%

Smoke
Cuirass
NefLum
Defense: 353
Durability: 47 of 50
Required Level: 37
Required Strength: 65
Fingerprint: 0x719356fc
Item Level: 52
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+75% Enhanced Defense
+280 Defense vs. Missile
+10 to Energy
All Resistances +50
-1 to Light Radius
Level 6 Weaken (18/18 Charges)
2 Sockets (2 used)
Socketed: Nef Rune
Socketed: Lum Rune

Nef Rune
Required Level: 13
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Knockback
Armor: +30 Defense vs. Missile
Shields: +30 Defense vs. Missile

Lum Rune
Required Level: 37
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: +10 to Energy
Armor: +10 to Energy
Shields: +10 to Energy

Immortal King's Will
Avenger Guard
Defense: 174
Durability: 52 of 55
Required Level: 47
Required Strength: 65
Fingerprint: 0xdcc21fea
Item Level: 57
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to Warcry Skills (Barbarian Only)
+125 Defense
Lightning Resist +60%
37% Extra Gold from Monsters
32% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+4 to Light Radius
2 Sockets (2 used)
Socketed: Ort Rune
Socketed: Ort Rune

(2 items): +50 to Attack Rating

Ort Rune
Required Level: 21
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Adds 1 - 50 Lightning Damage
Armor: Lightning Resist +30%
Shields: Lightning Resist +35%

Ort Rune
Required Level: 21
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Adds 1 - 50 Lightning Damage
Armor: Lightning Resist +30%
Shields: Lightning Resist +35%

Glyph Fist
Sharkskin Gloves
Defense: 57
Durability: 12 of 14
Required Level: 47
Required Strength: 20
Fingerprint: 0xb5bb37c2
Item Level: 71
Version: Expansion 1.10+
10% Chance to cast level 3 Nova when struck
+1 to Martial Art Skills (Assassin Only)
2% Life stolen per hit
9% Chance of Crushing Blow
+43% Enhanced Defense
+20 to Life
Fire Resist +13%

Lucky Large Charm of Strength
Large Charm
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x818d33c3
Item Level: 60
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+5 to Strength
6% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Ruby Large Charm
Large Charm
Required Level: 27
Fingerprint: 0x332edf6c
Item Level: 59
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Fire Resist +14%

Sharp Grand Charm of Venom
Grand Charm
Required Level: 21
Fingerprint: 0x11e655d8
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+10 to Maximum Damage
+52 to Attack Rating
Adds 15 Poison Damage Over 4 Secs (100 Frames)

Forked Large Charm of Flame
Large Charm
Required Level: 44
Fingerprint: 0x4b5b27fe
Item Level: 60
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to Maximum Damage
Adds 1 - 2 Fire Damage

Small Charm of Balance
Small Charm
Required Level: 29
Fingerprint: 0x9b0c6093
Item Level: 82
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+5% Faster Hit Recovery

Lucky Grand Charm
Grand Charm
Fingerprint: 0x2bd607d2
Item Level: 68
Version: Expansion 1.10+
9% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Serpent's Grand Charm of Sustenance
Grand Charm
Required Level: 35
Fingerprint: 0x40a39181
Item Level: 69
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+23 to Life
+52 to Mana

Ocher Large Charm of Storms
Large Charm
Required Level: 26
Fingerprint: 0x1bddb1c8
Item Level: 57
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Adds 1 - 35 Lightning Damage
Lightning Resist +8%

Dual Spirits on switch for BO castings.

 

[Jason Maher]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

Butcher's pupil is a brilliant twinking weapon, and is Hell viable when upped (though not the fastest killer around).

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

if you could scrape together an 'Oath' BA, then you could probably ditch the 'Treachery' for a GBane to help with the PDR & add in a smattering of MDR, CBF, & 30%FHR which is always nice in one piece of equipment, and maintain the same FPA. This is assuming you have a GBane, though.

Gladiator's Bane is a nice PDR/MDR armor, but it also requires lvl 85. I usually pat/mat at 82/83, so using Gbane would require some Pit runs before proceeding with the rest of Hell.

 

[logoutzero]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

No fortitude. I'm HC also, btw. Dual Spirits on switch for BO castings.

Looks like we're about on the same level with gear, but I like your gloves! Dual Spirits for Cries would have been a good idea at 25 (I think?) but instead, I completely forgot about it, and started shopping for Resonant (+2 Warcries) at Normal Anya. Took a few minutes, but now I need to find Echoing...

Butcher's pupil is a brilliant twinking weapon, and is Hell viable when upped (though not the fastest killer around).

Now that I have been exploring some other options, this Axe is really growing on me!

if you could scrape together an 'Oath' BA, then you could probably ditch the 'Treachery' for a GBane to help with the PDR & add in a smattering of MDR, CBF, & 30%FHR which is always nice in one piece of equipment, and maintain the same FPA. This is assuming you have a GBane, though.

Gladiator's Bane is a nice PDR/MDR armor, but it also requires lvl 85. I usually pat/mat at 82/83, so using Gbane would require some Pit runs before proceeding with the rest of Hell.

I would love to put him in a G.Bane, or even an Iron Pelt to start out. Yet, I have neither. Wonder if they can be had for Gems?

 

[logoutzero]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

It won't let me edit....

'Voice of Reason' doesn't seem terrible as long as I'm not fighting cows... Although it will be slow, and suffers from a lack of Deadly Strike. Maybe not such a good one after all...

Not that I am ignore the 'Oath' suggestions. I've been running Hell Countess (however slowly) to try it out. Andy also gave me a Highlord's Wrath, and Arreat's Face, so she really wants me to make this guy work!

But while I'm working for 'Oath' runes, it doesn't really seem to be much stronger than the upped Butcher's Pupil? Unless I am to automatically assume an Ethereal Base? Then, the damage starts to pull away.

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

But while I'm working for 'Oath' runes, it doesn't really seem to be much stronger than the upped Butcher's Pupil? Unless I am to automatically assume an Ethereal Base? Then, the damage starts to pull away.

Yes, Oath should always be made in an ethereal base. Higher damage is the obvious and primary benefit, but not having to repair your weapon constantly is also a great convenience.

 

[RobbyD]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

HW and AF from Andy, huh? Yep, sounds like she really wants you to take this project to the end! I agree on Oath - eth base is the way to make this RW stand out. The IAS is also a big boost, as you can make it in a faster base than, say, the Cleaver base of Butcher's Pupil.

I'd suggets a 1H/shield setup, because a Conc barb is all about not getting hit, and a shield can (a) increase defense, (b) help with resists, and (c) block up to 3/4 of the hits that do get through (other than the Smite from Blunderbores). "Rhyme" in a Heater or Hyperion is a very cheap, very nice shield.

If you manage to get a Lo (not unheard of - I've gotten a Cham and a Ber while questing characters through the game), I'd sure look for a Berserker Axe (or a PB if you aren't married to axes) to completely bypass the drawback of a 1H weapon.

 

[logoutzero]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

I'd suggets a 1H/shield setup, because a Conc barb is all about not getting hit, and a shield can (a) increase defense, (b) help with resists, and (c) block up to 3/4 of the hits that do get through (other than the Smite from Blunderbores). "Rhyme" in a Heater or Hyperion is a very cheap, very nice shield.

I really plan to stay the 1H/Shield route, on the fence about blocking, though. +66 @res is a huge chunk to throw away for a bit of damage, so I'm pretty sure I'm staying 1H. Also, I'm playing this Conc Barb more offensively, focusing mostly on the un-interruptable aspect of the attack, instead of the defensive boost. While it's nice, I feel a fast, hard(ish) hitting Concentrate, coupled with some DR and healthy leech, makes this guy play like a freight train. Quite fun!

If you manage to get a Lo (not unheard of - I've gotten a Cham and a Ber while questing characters through the game), I'd sure look for a Berserker Axe (or a PB if you aren't married to axes) to completely bypass the drawback of a 1H weapon.

Not sure what a Lo is for? I think your thought got truncated, but I think you were going towards 'Fortitude'? Not really sure I follow, otherwise.

 

[ioupain]

Re: How bad is this weapon? (Conc Barb inside)

Not sure what a Lo is for? I think your thought got truncated, but I think you were going towards 'Fortitude'? Not really sure I follow, otherwise.

For Grief!

Y U no use demon limb? Enchant is a way better way to get AR and then you can take those points from battle cry and pump axe mastery and bash or Shout (although since you mentioned that you are going offensive rather than defensive you may not want to).

Other than when monsters have ITD, not getting hit > PDR. With concentrate, high blocking and shout you can get defense that is actually useful.

Sounds like you could do with dumping 9 of the Battle cry points in to Axe mastery, about 5 or so in Natural resists which will free up some shield and armour options?