Guide: WS K Amazon

[LoFi]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Hi,

I'd have couple of questions about this build. I've got this lady now to level 73 and I'm about to start hell difficulty pretty soon. How should I divide my stat points? Should I go the basic route, enough str and dex to wear my gear and the rest into vitality, or something else?

Nightfish mentioned using Stormshield. My strenght is now 110 (60 pts + 25 from IK's Detail, 15 from gloves and 10 from War Travellers). How did you get your strength to 156? Do I just have to dump insane amount of stat points into strength or is there some particular gear that could help?

My gear setup looks like this:

Titan's Revenge
Lidless Wall
Harlequin Crest Shako (w. 15% IAS jewel)
Skullder's Ire
Rare Gloves that give me 20IAS, 15str and ~22 cold & fire resistance.
Immortal King's Detail
War Travellers
Rare Amulet that gives 87 mana and 20 all res.
Raven Frost
Rare Ring (15dex,~20 to resist fire/cold/lightning)

I had a +3 to bow skills Matriarchal Bow, but cube gave me one socket to it, so now I'm looking for another one. I guess there isn't any way to remove sockets from an item to make it plain white, so that I could try mu luck again with the socket recipe?

 

[Noodle]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

A Hel rune in the shield will lower the requirements by 15%, getting the required strength down to 133. Charms could help. And once you get sockets in an item through either Larzuk or the cube recipe you're stuck with the outcome. Sorry about your unlucky roll!

- Noodle

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

As far as attributes go, you cannot go wrong with enough str to wear your gear, enough dex for max block with a good shield, and the rest in vit. That applies for every character (those that don't use shields obviously skip the dex part...). If it's SC you can technically make do with 0 vit but I find the benefits of more str/dex not worth it, not on this build and not on any other build.

You can use stormshield but you dont need to. If I feel like getting my Str up to 150+ I either use some items or hard points. It's not like +/- 30 points in any one attribute ever killed me. There's a difference between getting 400 str for a titan build or spending just a bit more than usual to use an item...

 

[galzohar]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Do you prefer max block over spirit? And if so, what shield do you use for it?

Then again I'd probbaly go spirit and forget block anyway since:
1. I play SC
2. The alternatives (other than sigon's shield) will probably not be available to me
3. More damage = more fun

I took this build as my ladder starter and it's doing great. Razortail is a must! I think it's not stressed strongly enough in the guide - even maxed pierce (85%, slightly more with +skills) cannot match the 95% (or was it 100%, never seen this being agreed on, but unless I'm imagining "lack of pierces" the 95% seems correct) pierce you get with 1 base point, some +skills and razortail.


/me wonders how come meteorb isn't called a fishysorc

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

A Hel rune in the shield will lower the requirements by 15%, getting the required strength down to 133.

If you're going to go this route, I recommend a jewel with a lower requirements mod instead... you can get a nice second mod (or even more with a rare jewel). I went with this in my Stormshield to help my fire resists:

Havoc Eye
Jewel
Required Level: 13
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 82
Fingerprint: 0xbd1871bf
+5% Enhanced Damage
Fire Resist +26%
Adds 1-15 lightning damage
Requirements -15%



As for the stat points, I ended up putting a few into Energy with this build (~30). It really helped with Frozen Arrow.

And personally, if I want some high-strength equipment, I'd rather just spend a few extra points into that attribute... that way you'll have more equipment flexibility if you want to change something later.

 

[LoFi]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Thank's for your answers!

I'm now using Kuko Shakaku, but it's kinda slow. I'm not sure if I want to shael it, maybe I just play for a while and hope I'll find another +3 matriarchal bow. On the other hand, I don't have Razortail. Well, I'll make up something.

Galzohar, in which shield you'd make the Spirit rune word?

 

[asdfgah]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

If you don't feel like spending a lot of points in strength and dex you could go with whitstan's guard, low strength req and low dex req for max block.

Galzohar, in which shield you'd make the Spirit rune word?

Monarchs are what spirit is made in usually (if not for paladins).

@galzohar: Hmm I will have to try spirit on my next fishyzon rebuild.. (coming soon! )

 

[Noodle]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Thank's for your answers!

I'm now using Kuko Shakaku, but it's kinda slow. I'm not sure if I want to shael it, maybe I just play for a while and hope I'll find another +3 matriarchal bow. On the other hand, I don't have Razortail. Well, I'll make up something.

Galzohar, in which shield you'd make the Spirit rune word?

I don't see the Razortail on the NTPP trading restricted list, nor Wizendraw ( the -% to enemy's cold resistance can be very nice with FA.) Unless you're strict about playing self-found, I'd be happy to donate to the cause. Just PM me an e-mail address, and they're yours.

Please note: I am 1.11 SC RWM / RRM. I'll probably "upgrade" to 1.12 at some point, but haven't yet.

Thyiad, sirpoopsalot, if I'm wrong about my eligibility to donate these items due to NTPP status, I sincerely apologise for my mistake.

- Noodle

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Do you prefer max block over spirit? And if so, what shield do you use for it?

Personally I pretty much never use spirit. The extra +1 skills that would give isn't really significant while 75% blocking certainly is.

Razortail is a must!

No it's not. It's an option, no more, no less. The goal isn't to get 100% pierce, it's to kill monsters in a timely fashion. That happens with or without Razortail to a point where it's nigh impossible to tell the difference between having one and not having one without opening the inventory.

 

[LoFi]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Thanks again for your answers! I think I'll make Spirit regardless I use it or not with this build, because it's darn cheap for what it does. About the weapon for Insight rune word, would it be giant tresher or great poleaxe? As far as I can see, giant tresher is commonly preferred, but though great poleaxe is slower, it has better avarage damage and lower stat requirements.


Noodle, thank you for your offer, but I'm pretty strict about self-found.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Razortail just makes too big of a difference. Having ~60ish pierce or having 95% is quite noticeable. Think 1/3 of your bolts will fail piercing, 1/9 will fail piercing the second time etc... Even if you say you never get to pierce more than once, getting pierce up to 95% is about 15% increase in your damage (which is what you get if it pierces and hits a wall to release bolts a 2nd time, pretty much a worst-case scenario). If you allow more it's even better, but 15% damage increase is pretty big for just a belt slot, especially when it's a common belt that you're likely to even get for free if you're trading.

Yes you can play without razortail, but if I'd have to put my resources on just 1 item, it would've been it (well, or titan's, but titan's is much much more expensive/rare with somewhat compareable benefits).

For max block you'd have to use a heavy shield with slower running and get dex higher which means lower vit which means gloams will have an easier time to kill you. I'm not ruling out max block, but for SC I find the extra +skills and higher HP more comfortable. Especially when stuff that kill me are usually elemental attacks anyway.

 

[Nightfish]

Whether or not Razortail makes a big difference is not the issue. You said it should be mandatory when it clearly shouldn't. The fact that there is a big difference between 95% and 60% *on paper* does not matter either. I realsie crunching numbers on paper is easier than trying to figure out what impact they have ingame but that's what matters in the end. A lot of the times there isn't even anything behind the monster you're hitting at all so pierce is 100% wasted.

Fact of the matter is that when a lot of monsters are in one place Lightning Fury will obliterate them in the blink of an eye, no matter if you have 0% pierce or 100%. Next you'd be making a LF synergy mandatory because that's 20% more damage. (actually in this case it would be 16 2/3rd percent more damage since there is already one synergy but let's not nitpick, also there aren't enough skillpoints left but I'm just making a point anyway.)

Simply put, I care what makes a big difference in game. Not what makes a big difference on the stat screen or on a pretty piece of paper.


Razortail is a decent belt, it's useful and if you actually read the guide you notice it's listed as my current choice but it should not be overestimated and I am not going to do that. It is one of multiple options and it will remain thus in my guides because I am most definetly going to start telling people that they *have* to use this one item when all my time in D2 I've been preaching that you can make everything work if you set your mind to it.

Actually I fail to see your point entirely by now having read again what I said about razortail. If you want a guide that lists mandatory items you'll have to write it yourself.

I am not going to waste my time on the debate of life vs blocking again beyond pointing out that the guide lists whitsan's guard which is neither heavy nor hard to get...

Bottom line: Play as you like. I am not telling you not to use razortail but I am not making this or any other item in my guides mandatory just to make you happy.

 

[ioupain]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

This build is awesome! Kudos Nightfish!

I particularly like the fact the build is one of the most versatile characters I have got. Currently lvl 83 (waiting to find some resist all charms so that I can swap out Mosers for Stormshield - Debating how to get enough strength since I do like Razortail and I have plenty of spare points left over)

The reason I think this character is so versatile is that Lightning Fury is a great ranged attack and charged strike is a great close range attack and stuff dies very quickly on players 1 hell. For the lightning immunes Frozen Arrow is *pretty* safe although it can get hairy with large packs of Burning Souls. Frozen arrow is a good for big packs as well as individual monsters that you don't want to be too close to MSLEFECE etc. Finally, although AR is not particularly good, I find my Eaglehorn shooting normal arrows works very nicely against cold/lightning immunes and along with my decoy and mercenary I feel confident to take on any monster in the game.

My current issues are ones of resistance. My whole inventory is filled with charms meaning annoyingly I have no space to pick up stuff and I have to put stuff in my horadric cube (dangerous in WSK as half the screen is taken over!)

Matriarch Hippolyte:

Level: 83

Life: 835
Mana: 313

Attribute: Base (With Items)
Strength: 115 (144)
Dexterity: 145 (210) (Max block with Mosers and more than enough for Max block with Stormshield)
Vitality: 145 (152)
Energy: 15 (22)

UNSPENT: 85

Resists: Weap/Shield (Bow switch)
FR: 75 (43)
CR: 75 (28)
LR: 75 (68)
PR: 75 (14)

Skills:

20 LF
20 CS
5 Prerequisites

1 in each of: Critical Stike, Penetrate, Pierce, Inner Sight, Slow Missiles and Decoy

20 FA
20 CA
1 prerequisites

UNSPENT: 2

Equipment:

Helm: Harlequin Crest (Socketed with Um)
Armour: Treachery Wire Fleece
Amulet: Mara's (+26 all res)
Ring 1: Ravenfrost (+20 Dex)
Ring 2: Manald Heal (6% ml)
Belt: Razortail
Gloves: These
Boots: Natalya's (23% cr and 23% lr)

Weapon/Shield 1: Titans (181% ed 9% ll) + Mosers (2 Ums - Yes I know this is wrong but this was my only decent shield for ages and The extra +6 res all gave me nice maxed resists at the time :whistling

Weapon 2: Eaglehorn

Mercenary:

Act2: Prayer Merc lvl 83
Armour: Duriel's shell (Um)
Helm: Crown of Thieves (Um)
Weapon: Insight Bec-de-Cobin (17 Meditation)

I do have a Stormshield and Thundergod's Vigor just to make life easy against burning souls but I haven't tested it yet 'cos I do like Razortail. Other than getting better charms, can anyone suggest perhaps a change to my equipment (bearing in mind this is *some* of my best gear) that would help. I considered swapping my Armour but I'm unsure which to use.

Using 1.11b, ATMA, RRM, RCM, RWM and I have quite a few of each rune up until Um. Then I also have just found a Gul and Mal but I might try saving these for a higher end runeword!

Thanks and sorry for the long post, I just thought people could give me a better answer with all the info!

 

[Kalyptein]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

How are you keeping your merc alive? Mine gets instagibbed VS pretty much anything with extra strong and/or cursed.

Just got absolutely reamed on Bloody Foothills because of the insane number of Quill Rats spread out

 

[Greebo]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

My current issues are ones of resistance. My whole inventory is filled with charms meaning annoyingly I have no space to pick up stuff and I have to put stuff in my horadric cube (dangerous in WSK as half the screen is taken over!)

About resistances: Yes, it can be tough. It's an amazon. One mistake you're making is using your shield for res. It doesn't work with this build - the most dangerous stuff (i.e. gloams) you actually have to shoot with the bow. Non-LI die before they touch you. I assume here you're running WSK. If you run something else, that might not be applicable.

BTW: I cannot believe how many Um's you've dumped into this. I mean you could cube like an Ist out of this. And your merc might keep 75resall under conviction... Sick. Anyway.

Loose the manald. You almost never hit with physical part of your damage. The elemental part always hits, and you have insight. Why would you want to leech? You can drink blue pot sometimes, it's not a crime . Since you want to have more space in your backpack, put on resistance ring.

Although really, I think my res are not much better. I think I run with something like 50/30/75/30, same on bow and titans. 75 lightning is a must. 50 fire is nice in the throne room, but you can get by with 25 or so. cold and poison could be zero, really. Use your decoy if you run into trouble, she will take 30-40% damage off you. Not to mention you have 85 unspent points and 830 life. I have like 1300 on my zon. That will work as extra resistances in a way .

About your bow: Windforce is a nice bow, but not really made for this build. Your AR is horrible, you only hit things with it, since it has Ignore Target's Defense mod. This build thrives on +skills. You know what, I'm actually repeating things Nightfish wrote in his guide, so I'll stop before he sues me for copyright infringement.

--Greebo

 

[Mardonius]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

What would you say to using a Silence bow on the weapon switch? By itself, it is less +skills than Melody (it's expensive to make, too), but the resists on it allow you to use the shield slot for resists (I am thinking Rhyme or Spirit) which in turn would free up inventory space that could be used for skill charms or MF, that was being used for resist charms.

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

How are you keeping your merc alive? Mine gets instagibbed VS pretty much anything with extra strong and/or cursed.

Just got absolutely reamed on Bloody Foothills because of the insane number of Quill Rats spread out

two words: spam decoy

It took me a while to figure this out, but once I started using decoy as my primary tank (not the merc), things got a lot safer for the whole party.


@Mardonius, it'll definitely work - possibly quite well - but in my opinion it's not worth a Vex+Ist. And I really hate the 25% flee that you get from having a Dol rune in the weapon too. If you already have the bow, then it never hurts to try, but I'd rather save the runes for something else when I know that 25% flee is going to annoy me right off the bat.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

The problem with silence is that it's a +2 skills vs a +6 you might have. The added physical damage is almost redundant (completely redundant if you use insight) and the resistances can surely be gotten elsewhere if you have a Vex and an Ist to spare. Overall you're likely trading too much for too little. I'd be all over this runeword if either it was 5 runes or amazon bows got 6 slots. As is... NEXT!

As for merc dying vs curses + damage enhancing mods... Well, duh... what doesn't die vs that? If stuff isn't LI LF should kill it in short order, though. And if it's not CI, it should be frozen solid. Overall I never really have problems there. My merc doesn't die any more often on this build than on any other.

 

[Mardonius]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I already have a Silence Crusader Bow. It doesn't see much use now except on the weapon switch of my current Lightning Fury Javazon when Pindleskin is Lightning Immune and the merc is messing around with the trash outside.

This character, BTW, is 8 years old, level 99, has many misspent points and could not be pressed into service as a viable WSK runner.

I don't think the lower +skills would be a huge deal since Freezing Arrow is a secondary attack that is used only on lightning immunes.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

You can use any item you want but the silence bow doesn't get any better than it is, which is not too good. Secondary attack or not, +6 skills > +2 skills. The end. There is no denying that even with a white short bow stuff would still die but that does not make the short bow any better than it is.

There is nothing wrong with using a weaker item just for the sake of using it. When my current barbarian reaches lvl 70 he will downgrade from a ribcracker to a messerschmidt's reaver, but that doesn't change that the reaver is the inferior item.