Golemancer Attempt No.2

Thanks, Feonn :smiley:
My gut feeling is for exactly what you suggest - at least for today. :rolleyes:

The max Amp Damage suggestion is actually dangerous to this build. There are times when I need to DV a large part of the screen, and AmpDam a small portion (the creatures nearest the fighters). With a wider radius AmpDam over-writing the DV'd creatures, I could quickly get in big trouble. This build is all about crowd control, I'm finding.
It's the surgical blade method rather than the Zod'd-ethereal-CV-big-hurty-stick-kill-them-all approach.
 
I think its a decision between the experiment with IG's thorns vs the easier time with DV.

With the Daggermancer I am playing now, DV is the ONLY choice. I think that max DV will make life easier for you, but it might be more fun (and challenging) to have maxed Rusty:smiley:
 
Cool, thanks for the info.

My only thought with the DV vs. IG debate is to make sure you can at least cover a whole screen with DV. If you can do that with +skills, then I'd say go with IG. Otherwise, bump DV up a bit.
 
Do You See What I See? (Alternate title: "AARGHH!")

Balboa insisted that we prepare thoroughly for our assault on the Swampy Pit. "Preparation is the key here, lads", he announced, "I want you all to do two things for me." Pause. He then explained that we would be crossing our fingers and hoping for the best. Things may have got a bit ugly then between the golemancer and the merc but for the comical sight of Rusty's attempts at fulfilling the first requirement. We fell about laughing and it wasn't until we descended the stairs that the last smirks vanished from our faces.

A cursed, extra-fast pack of Undead Stygian Dolls was our introduction to the 'Pit (how on Earth can you tell if 'Dolls are extra fast?). Dim Vision and healing potions meant that Jemali could do his work, ably aided by the iron golem. Things become distinctly funky when the 'Dolls were joined by Gloams. Drowned Carcasses soon joined the party - was everything in this accursed dungeon to be extra-fast? The bosses seemed to be hunting in pairs, as Wind Maim charged in with the last of the 'Carcasses. Worse was to come, though ...
We cleared the first level of the 'Pit - a notable find was Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest, dropped by some random creature.

Descending to the second level, Jemali had stopped, dead still, looking across the water. Balboa joined him for a look and it was then I noticed what was holding their attention. The golemancer was ashen-faced and muttered something like, "the blue-skinned women" but I could tell he was unaware that he had spoken. The cursed, extra-fast, spectral hit 'Doll boss was bad, bad enough, but there was another boss, unseen, sporting an evil aura. A quick vote was taken on whether proceed further or to pretend that we had cleared the 'Pit and high-tail it back to the Docks (it should be noted that Rusty dutifully raised his hand for both options). It was decided that we circle around the danger-spot and clear other areas of the dungeon to ensure that we had space in which to fight (read that as run away). We worked our way around to the North-East of Boss Central, defeating any monsters we happened upon, until we were on the fringes of the double boss-pack. Quick as a flash, four or five Might enchanted Minion 'Dolls swarmed over Jemali, slaying him in the blink of an eye. Balboa ran like a scolded cat, heedless of the danger of losing Rusty in his panic - fortunately, the golem stayed with us. A quick trip back to the Docks was required, and the merc was revived.

Once we had all calmed down, Balboa put his thinking cap on (that's what he calls his Wormskull, I guess). There was no way we could take on the pack as it was, and to make matters worse, Jemali had temporarily forgotten how to create his Defiance aura. Balboa thrust the merc in front of one of the many projectile traps in the walls, thinking Jemali would soon remember his trick, but no luck. The golemancer wracked his brains for a method for dealing with these creatures - we had no missile weapons to speak of, so an assault through the bars from a safe distance wasn't possible.
In the end, the idea came - AmpDam and Attract - and I asked myself why it had taken so long to come up with this tactic. Praise the gods, it worked rather well. A couple of 'Dolls and three 'Carcasses were slain by their own kind and the odds started to look much better. We circled around once more to the site of Jemali's earlier misfortune and lured the last few minions away from their boss's Might aura - easy prey. The 'Doll boss approached us on his own and was dispatched. The 'Carcass boss followed meekly and was similarly dealt with.

Jemali took some of his angst out on a Water Watcher, slaying the beast. The third level, when we descended, turned out to be a petting zoo with Flayers and their Shamans simply standing around, Dim Visioned and no threat whatsoever.

"A stressful session, lads", remarked Balboa, "But undoubtably very good preparation for the Flayer Dungeon". A some point shortly after that pronouncement, a Rockstopper sallet hit the golemancer in the back of the head, with no indication of how that may have happened.

Stats, etc
No changes from my last update and nothing to add, really.

In reply ...
@boodah, Nukeman8, blockcipher & kykle - yes, I belief that the experiment probably demands that I pump IG in preference to DV. I will soon, I believe, add up to five points to DV for more screen coverage. The rest can go into IG whenever I like. The skill plan (I finally found the envelope I scribbled it down on) allows me to put 10 hard points in DV, and max IG by Level 92 (should I ever get that far).
I don't know why I'm holding onto the ten Skill points I currently have available - I guess I'm still hedging.

I no longer believe that LR needs a point, so I'll skip it.

Champion GumbyBalboa - Level 86, Act 3, The Flayer Dungeon
 
First Post

LozHinge the Unhinged: I have been a Diablo 2 fan for years. Your thread is awesome. Inspired me to post. The Necromancer is a favorite of mine. I never could get a Golemancer to work for me. Mostly Summoners.
Good Read!
 
@JubalBane - many thanks! Golemancers aren't for folks in a hurry, it has to be said. :smiley:

@dutes - I agree, and so does my merc. Balboa kept a healthy distance from the 'Dolls.

@kykle - I don't think so. My golemancer never experienced one, but although the merc was hurting from their attacks, he didn't seem troubled by their explosions. An expert may have the answer for you.
 
mercenary's and summons dont take damage from them sort of explosions for example the sucide things in world stone keep (frenzied demons or somert)
the dolls death explosion or champions fire enchanted death explosion
so your merc would of quite happily laugh at them as they went pop
 
IG vs DV

There has been a little talk on this thread about whether Loz should go with a max IG or max DV. Any news? My summoners always go with max DV. It allows me to concentrate on a few members of a crowd at one time. For a Golemancer I would think crowd control to be even more difficult as you don't have as many walking bone shields running around. :wink3:
 
Currently the vote (well, my vote anyway :wink3: ) is with putting a last few points into DV to bring it up to about 10 hard points, and then all further points go to IG (maxing at about clvl 92 or so). If I recall correctly ...

Max DV and thus improved crowd control would be the better option, perhaps, but then a skellimancer would be a better option than a golemancer, so logic is clear out the window anyway!
 
LozHinge,
I was checking out the Golem synergies on:
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/necromancer-summoning.shtml

Do you think your 20 points in blood (life) and clay (more AR) have been of much use to Rusty? It sounds to me like maxing IG itself is really a low priority to you practically, only an experimental thing since you are already level 85+. How about the full 20 points in GM...have you had lots of trips into town or away from battle to heal Rusty? I wonder because you have had a fair number of times where you've lost your clanking metal pet to annoying glitches, anyway.:rant:
I remember you saying that FG doesn't add enough damage to IG to make it worth the point investment....but I've been wondering if that +6% damage per level is applied either before or after the weapon damage properties are taken into account....Couldn't find an answer to this even on the stickies in this forum...If a powerful enough weapon was involved and the %damage bonus was figured after the weapon's damage properties were added, wouldn't FG points make a worthwhile difference then? Maybe if no one knows the answer to this for sure it might be an interesting area to spend a few points on as an experiment.
I'm having to ask you all this because I'm still figuring how to set up my own golem points in the right way.

~timevalue
 
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Good questions!

The purpose of this golemancer experiment is (was?) mostly to determine viability of build. With limited points available, I needed to prioritise ...

1. Survivability of the golem is paramount as he can't kill if he cannot survive. I initially considered maximising life to be top priority, and this was bourne out once I found that an IG can kill in all three difficulties - as long as he is made from something useful. Thus, max GM and BG, to keep him alive and not lose the valuable artifact he's made from.

2. My next consideration was AR - the golem needs the best chance to hit that he can get (especially with his slow attack rate). Thus CG was the next priority (coupled with the fact that a high slvl CG itself really does slow things down at those times that you haven't an IG available).

3. My next priority was Defence - with the high ARs of monsters in Hell, it was likely that no amount of points in IG would make a golem hard to hit, but I considered the points worthwhile nevertheless. I initially dismissed the increased Thorns damage from points in IG, but I've seen things in the course of this experiment which have made me re-consider this issue.

4. Lastly, I considered the golem's attack damage. There was no option I could see to raise this in any meaningful way, except to use an IG with a useful weapon (rare, unique or RW). I made the assumption that FG would only increase Rusty's base damage, not the additional damage of the weapon. If I'm wrong, I have made a big error! The Pet Calculator (love that thing!) cannot assist with this particular issue, unfortunately.

When I was planning the build, the variables I had to consider (once I decided upon the primacy of priorities 1 - 3 above) were:
Pump FG
Pump Curses (esp. DV)
Pump Bone Wall/Prison as synergies for BA.

I have been able to hoard skill points through much of the experiment, giving me valuable indications of where the points should go. My heart said FG, my head said Curses, my summoner said BW/BP - well, forget him, he needs skellies to survive in Hell! The wimp ...

Anyway, my feeling is that extra points in DV are well worth the investment, and it's an acceptable compromise in terms of overall survivability versus the strict a-golemancer-maxes-all-golem-skills approach. There is no way that Balboa is a mere mojomancer with a merc, the IG is integral to the success (?- so far) of the build.

As regards GM, I've suffered fewer glitches than I may otherwise have had (I believe) because the extra speed that GM gives the golem means he's not left behind unless he is trapped by terrain/monsters.
He's had numerous trips to town to be repaired when facing certain enemies - at other times he doesn't seem to register any damage at all (meanwhile the merc is lying face-down in the dirt!). I haven't figured out yet what makes some enemies tankable for Rusty, yet lethal to the merc (and vice versa).

In summary, I've had to decide between a strict golemocentric approach (golem skills before anything else, no merc, limited curses) and a pure survivability build (a CG for show, a super-powerful Might merc, pumped-up curses and CE ftw). I've steered a middle course between these two extremes, favouring golem skills as far as is practical.

I too would like to know whether FG fully synergises with all of IG's damage - somehow I doubt this will be the case.
 
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I can certainly understand why you would want to keep putting points in DV, no questions there.
The FG damage issue, however, seems like a fascinating one that hasn't been properly looked at.
To help answer the question of whether FG damage fully synergizes with the IG's weapon damage.....How much life does your IG have now? GMastery only adds to the IG's base life (and the Arreat Summit website specifically says this), but how does the Blood Golem synergy points add to your IG's health? Does it only add to the base life of the IG or does it calculate on top of the enhanced life given by 20 points of GMastery?
I am asking this seemingly unrelated question to try to get a feel for what Blizzard might have done in terms of fully synergizing FG's damage to the weapon the IG is made of.
If the FG's 6% damage per level bonus is added after weapon damage is tacked on...well, it just might turn Rusty into that much more effective of a killer!
Even though Rusty can only attack once per second, I can think of some pretty nice possibilities with good weapons here, but I can also see that your remaining skill points and levels are running short to take a chance on something different.
Maybe Mad Mantis would know the answer to this.
~timevalue
 
A quick check on the Pet Calculator shows that the BG bonus to HP is added on top of the GM boost, i.e. GM does not increase the BG bonus, only the base life.
My reading of the forums gives me the impression that this is a regular pattern with Blizzard regarding necros (and other characters) - synergies tend to be additive not multiplicative.

This isn't proof that FG's damage bonus does not increase IG total damage including the base weapon - but it is suggestive and perhaps supports my belief that FG is not a full synergy for IG damage. Had I believed otherwise, my appoach to skills may well have been very different - it is likely I would have maxed FG rather than BG, to take full advantage of the damage boost.

My IG currently has somewhere in the order of 7400 HP - reasonably durable - and I can look forward to a fair bit more once I find better +skills equipment to further boost GM.
 
The Flayer Dungeon and The Suburbs

Backtracking through the jungle to the 'Dungeon, we observed some enemies on the other side of the river (where hadn't explored) and earmarked them for our later attention.
The 'Dungeon itself was all about cautious careful progress. Rocket-propelled Flayers, alive and undead, could quickly swamp us if we weren't attentive. As ever, Dim Vision calmed them and made them managable. Unfortunately, amongst the many, many Dark Shapes we encountered, one turned out to be un-killable. We fought a running battle with him and two or three accompanying Champions, in a series of divide and conquer maneouvres. A trip to town to shop for a polearm provided us with a stick with lightning damage, but monster regen made the weapon ineffective. The Possessed 'Shape had to be parked in the end, our second ever such creature.
The second level had a welcoming party to chill the heart - we had to give ground and attack the pack in chunks. Bosses with teleportation made Balboa especially nervous as they could easily bypass the golemancer's careful battleground positioning. At one point, Balboa's Bone Armour was shattered and a third of his life taken - he is not used to such treatment!
A mysterious force struck at us on this level. Balboa had wanted to follow Rusty through an archway and found himself prevented from doing so. We eventually had to circle around and find another route. A return to the Docks via TP somehow released the spell. Strange.
Level Three was a cat and mouse game as we searched the corridors for The Doctor. His special abilities meant that his minions were quite a handful, but in the end he was no real problem.

Above ground again, we travelled through the final areas of the jungle, meeting very little in the way of strong resistance. Until, of course, we reached the entrance to the jungle city. Stormtree's gang spawned with some nasty abilities and Rusty was particularly vulnerable to them. In the end though, we lured the enormous creatures out two or three at a time, to great success. Lower Kurast itself was unremarkable, Great Apes, Leapers and Buzzards, and no great drops. Perhaps two Elds and an El for runes, a unique Skull Spliter Military Axe. Hopefully Kurast Bazaar will be better!

Stats
No changes after this shortish session, although it will soon be time to spend some Skill points - I'm thinking three each in DV and IG, leaving four in reserve.
Oh, and a reminder, I'm still playing at /players 5. :grin:

Champion GumbyBalboa - Level 86, Act 3, Kurast Bazaar
 
A Miracle in the Bazaar

After our uneventful jaunt through Lower Kurast, Balboa suggested to us that the Bazaar should similarly be a walk in the park.
A few packs of Hell Swarms and Zakarumites made us feel welcome, but a Champion pack of Sextons was not good news. The Zakies were lured away to be killed but the Sextons refused to split up. They frequently healed each other, and the two fighters barely made progress in the face of this. In the end, we temporarily parked a couple of them in a building so that we could clear the area around them. During the course of this, we encountered a boss pack of Hell Swarm whose boss was, unfortunately, stone-skinned. His minions responded well to Open Wounds from Jemali's Malice War Spear, but the boss himself was unbeatable. We parked him in a far corner away from where the action was.
Returning to the house with the Sextons, they simply Blizzarded us as we tried to lure them out, so there was no option but to go in after them. As luck would have it, there was one Champion and one normal Sexton, so Balboa cast Attract on the regular one. With healing each other now effectively blocked, it was simply a case of waiting for the fighters to finish them off whilst re-casting Attract as required, at the same time as dodging lightning bolts. It got a bit hectic and Balboa was tagged a few times, but we got the job done.
The rest of the Bazaar just needed regular casting of DV, luring Faithful away from the Sextons and basically killing everything. This we did.

The two Temples were a different matter, of course. The first one we tried had no stair trap, and had been going very well, but a Spider Magus appeared from nowhere and charged Balboa. Poisoned and getting dangerously low in health, he had to retreat until he had enough breathing space to Terror the Spider away. Unfortunately, in his flight, he'd left Humongous Rusty behind who chose that occasion to go poof instead of teleporting to the golemancer's side. Annoyed, Balboa antidoted and healed himself and we returned to the Docks. A Malice stick was made from a Bec de Corbin we had found and given to Jemali. He was pleased with the upgrade. Jemali's War Spear was used to create another Malice Rusty. Thus renewed, we returned to the Temple, clearing it without further trouble and securing Lam Esen's Tome.

The second Temple started well, with Sarina's pack bottlenecked and relatively easy to defeat. Then all hell broke loose ...
A powerful bosspack of Ghoul Lord types, led by Steel Web, struck us very hard. Twice, Rusty's life was slivered in the rain of Meteors and other attacks - despite Balboa's best efforts to Dim Vision the casters. A couple of trips back to the Docks were needed to restore the golem. Jemali and Rusty were simply unable to tank the group and Balboa foresaw a moment when we would be driven back up the stairs - leaving us in a classic stair trap situation. Dim Vision couldn't slow things down, terroring away the creatures next to Seethe Web was ineffective ... things were desperate. Balboa decided to see whether there was any space to be found beyond one of the other entrances to the stair room. The first one he tried held Spider Magi - he quickly DV'd them and fled and we were fortunate indeed that they did not follow. The second alternate entrance also held Spiders but our luck had run out. The Spiders followed Balboa and I was beginning to lose faith. Balboa though stuck to his task, Terrored the new threat away, cast AmpDam to try to speed the demise of Steel Web, cast DV over the rest of the creatures, an emergency TP and finally, prayed that Rusty would hold together long enough for something, somewhere to give way. A long last, some creatures started dropping and we could start to see that we were winning. Before long, we were able to engage Stell Web on our terms - as satisfying a kill as I can remember.
The stress of this session was such that Balboa called a halt for the day - the strain had been etched into our faces.

Stats
109 Stats and 7 Skill points unspent. 5 more stats came from the Lam Esen quest reward and 3 skill points were placed in IG - now slvl 16 with pre-buff, 375% Thorns damage.
The frustration at not being able to kill unbreakable PIs is unexpected for me. I guess I'm used to having skelemages for these things. I'm considering dragging around the unique scythe I found (Grim's Burning) for its elemental damage, but without points in LR, I wonder if there's any point. I suppose I'll have to get used to this.
The second Temple was one of the most frightening encounters I've had to date. I truly believed that we wouldn't survive it. These are the times you truly appreciate this game.

Champion GumbyBalboa - Level 86, Act 3, Upper Kurast
 
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