Etdlahq Memorial Bar - your shelter from forum crashes

Ah, the perils of being a sessional teacher. I received a few emails from my head of section yesterday and the discussion went like this:

HoS: It has come to my attention that you don't have a particular unit in your teaching qualification that is now mandatory. We are running a training program for this unit within the next month, it is subsidised but there will be out of pocket expenses

Me: My wife is having brain surgery in two weeks, I don't have the time or interest in doing it at this time.

HoS: I am sorry to here of your wife's operation, I hope everything goes well. Rules are rules though. Thank you for the years you have spent working at this institution.

*sigh*
 
Wow. Just wow. If that's a straight copy/paste, there is absolutely no sympathy or empathy that I can read in that. Is it a copy/paste? I do not believe someone would write it like that...

Next, an employer (general full time employer so not relevant to casual/seasonal employment) is supposed to pay for upskilling in Australia. That is incredibly disheartening to read that an employer has requested money for keeping you skilled, and then despite the amount of stress, bills, appointments, worry, or challenges that you're going through, give no leeway or flexibility for your circumstances at all.

Best wishes, Nix. I can't imagine what you and your family are going through now, but all the best for you and your family.
 
Wow. Just wow. If that's a straight copy/paste, there is absolutely no sympathy or empathy that I can read in that.

Thanks Dry. It isn't a C&P, more of a resume. The actual wording probably is even less sympathetic.

We are sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, the expectations of professional development for VET teaching staff has increased tenfold, and that makes it hard for people such as yourself who only teach for a brief period. Best wishes for you and your family, and thank you for the assistance you have provided and the teaching you have done in the Cert IV Food Science and Tech field.
 
HoS: I am sorry to here of your wife's operation, I hope everything goes well. Rules are rules though. Thank you for the years you have spent working at this institution.

Did you receive anything explicit, like "you are fired"? A "thank you for the past years" is certainly not unambiguous enough to count as a dismissal. To stress that, you could keep coming :)

Also, was it just an email? In that case, you could perhaps ignore it. Where I am from, the law demands that dismissals have to come on paper and need some kind of proof of receipt, like somebody can attest that you received it. We also have cancellation periods here by law, their length depending on how long you were employed. Finally, a dismissal needs an appropriate reason and failing to meet a demand of extra training within a month for a reason like yours certainly isn't.

You probably don't want your job back at that place, but if the law is on your side, your could make them pay in cash for accepting a dismissal like that.
 
I am sessional, I get given a new contract on a yearly basis. New year, new contract, if they require me. We are only talking about a maximum of six days teaching and two days prep work for the year so this isn't going to break me, especially since I work two half days a week at another institution.
 
I think the "spoilered" email is actually more harsh. @ILikeRocks @TheNix

"We have more opportunities to get more obedient staff ["professional development for VET teaching staff has increased tenfold"] basically says that unless you dedicate everything to the school/university/company, instead of your life during tragedy/life and death situations, marital challenges, or death of a loved one, we will find someone who will put us above eveything else in their life, including family health, marriage, children, and wellbeing.
It is a terrible part of working [in Australia] for seasonal, casual or temporary work. There are an abundance of people who can do the work, and if you put you and your families health and wellbeing before the employer, the employer will find someone who is available immediately. This, despite any amount of experience, professionalism or skill. If you aren't available for any reason, you aren't of value to the employer, and they can dismiss you.

@krischan - Similar laws apply here, but to "full-time employment." Those who are on contracts, temporary, or casual employment do not get much consideration. A lot of employers (in my industry) employ people as "full-time casual." That is they are employed as Casual and do not benefit from any of the security of long-term employment, but work full-time hours. This allows the employer to basically dismiss anyone at any time, not pay holiday wages or sick leave benefits. Casual workers do however get a slightly increased wage to compensate for the lack of security.

It sucks, and I really feel for you, TheNix. I'm glad you've got a decent backup where you get more work, but it's still frustrating that the employer can treat you like this at such a difficult time. You know yourself to focus on what's most important, so again, best wishes with your family and the upcoming time.
 
I am sessional, I get given a new contract on a yearly basis. New year, new contract, if they require me. We are only talking about a maximum of six days teaching and two days prep work for the year so this isn't going to break me, especially since I work two half days a week at another institution.

Well OK, but that makes it even less comprehensible that they couldn't wait for a month or two. Also, working for 8 days a year is probably more like doing a favour to them.
 
Well OK, but that makes it even less comprehensible that they couldn't wait for a month or two. Also, working for 8 days a year is probably more like doing a favour to them.

Especially since my first teaching day wouldn't be until July!
 
@Jcakes I am showing 5176 pages...

Have you been frequenting this thread since you joined in 2008?

Yes, I believe I have the second most posts in this bar (behind kestegs). I have 5231 posts in here.

Sorry, but my bullshit meter just hit red alert. I think corax once tried to read it all, I also made a vain attempt at it, but I don't think anyone ever did it.

I did actually do it, back in 2011 / 2012. Remember back in those days there were less posts in the bar and I only had to read up to the point where I started posting.

I really don't remember why I ended up with just the base game, but there was a reason at the time and it may have even been logical.

The base game is indeed pretty lackluster, I have actually played before back when I had my 360. Think I got to level 20-25 or so.

Throwing knives are pretty awesome, so satisfying to get a kill with them.

I think when cakes and I used to play D3 together I would play at 5am and he would play at like 9pm. But I don't get up that early these days :p

Liar!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding, I actually believe you. Now that Jcakes guy though.....still not buying that.

Those were the good old days of D3...

Thanks Dry. It isn't a C&P, more of a resume. The actual wording probably is even less sympathetic.

We are sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, the expectations of professional development for VET teaching staff has increased tenfold, and that makes it hard for people such as yourself who only teach for a brief period. Best wishes for you and your family, and thank you for the assistance you have provided and the teaching you have done in the Cert IV Food Science and Tech field.

I am sessional, I get given a new contract on a yearly basis. New year, new contract, if they require me. We are only talking about a maximum of six days teaching and two days prep work for the year so this isn't going to break me, especially since I work two half days a week at another institution.

I am not sure they can legally require you to fund the P&D yourself. I could be wrong though. I managed to get my company to pay for a Diploma of PM, though technically it should have been a 50/50 split.
 
Well OK, but that makes it even less comprehensible that they couldn't wait for a month or two. Also, working for 8 days a year is probably more like doing a favour to them.
Especially since my first teaching day wouldn't be until July!

That's the way our casual/contract/temp laws operate. It is really imbalanced to those who work and rely on these, but the way the employers see it, is that if you're unavailable or under stressful/challenging circumstances over a short period, there are MANY others who can replace you. Even if your experience, education, reliability and history are top notch, in these employment circumstances, they can replace you without even looking twice.

Jcakes said:
I am not sure they can legally require you to fund the P&D yourself. I could be wrong though. I managed to get my company to pay for a Diploma of PM, though technically it should have been a 50/50 split.
As a contract/casual worker, I believe they can. If the contract is up (a new year/contracts end,) it is up to the employer to decide if it is worthwhile to renew a contract. And even then, if they decide to give another person (skills/experience/history notwithstanding,) it is the employers decision.)
Whether they are empathetic/generous enough to, I feel it is up to them, based on several personal individuals experience, in multiple industries. Contract/Casual staff have to provide a reason for their employment, and there are MANY people to fill in as a replacement. Even if it is not a reason to remove someone, the employer will simply find a reason, or make it difficult enough for the employee to find no reason to continue. At best. At worst, they simply 'withdraw' the contract, and create a new one for someone else.
 
As a contract/casual worker, I believe they can. If the contract is up (a new year/contracts end,) it is up to the employer to decide if it is worthwhile to renew a contract. And even then, if they decide to give another person (skills/experience/history notwithstanding,) it is the employers decision.)
Whether they are empathetic/generous enough to, I feel it is up to them, based on several personal individuals experience, in multiple industries. Contract/Casual staff have to provide a reason for their employment, and there are MANY people to fill in as a replacement. Even if it is not a reason to remove someone, the employer will simply find a reason, or make it difficult enough for the employee to find no reason to continue. At best. At worst, they simply 'withdraw' the contract, and create a new one for someone else.

You're probably right, it still doesn't seem quite right. My experience with contract / full time casual work was different and I managed to get the company to pay for Training. That was in a slightly different employment climate though.
 
That's the way our casual/contract/temp laws operate. It is really imbalanced to those who work and rely on these, but the way the employers see it, is that if you're unavailable or under stressful/challenging circumstances over a short period, there are MANY others who can replace you. Even if your experience, education, reliability and history are top notch, in these employment circumstances, they can replace you without even looking twice.

That's out of question, but I find it pretty unnecessary to insist on having the training within a month if your next job is coming in four months. It sounds like being meant as a punishment by a superior or unwillingness to take a few efforts to give the training a bit later.

By the way, what's meant with "out of the pocket expenses"? That you have to pay them yourself? They want you to pay for something which is needed for them and for an 8-days-a-year job? Come on, seriously, are they kidding??? I would expect that attending it counts as work time! It doesn't? Well, good-bye, go and find another dumbass to screw over.
 
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Did you receive anything explicit, like "you are fired"? A "thank you for the past years" is certainly not unambiguous enough to count as a dismissal. To stress that, you could keep coming :)

10 years later...

*Who is that man that keeps coming here?*
*Him? Oh, he's someone who got fired, but nobody told him.*
 
krischan said:
By the way, what's meant with "out of the pocket expenses"?
Usually, in full-time employment (different to contractual/casual work in this case,) an employer will pay for all, or most of the training required for the job, including all time taken off of work to complete said training. If they hire you for full-time employment, and the job requires specific courses/training, the employer covers it. If legislation/certain clients require extra training, the employer will cover the training course required for the job, or at minimum, most of it, including paying for the time to complete the course/certificate.

If, however, the job is on a 'casual' basis, or yearly contract, the employer can give a job to someone else who has the required training/certificate. For "full-time casual" (casual employment working ~40hours per week but employed as Casual,) the employer will usually cover the cost as part of upskilling current staff. This keeps staff happy, but also provides incentives to work for the employer for longer periods, to continue gaining relevant experience and training. Casual workers can leave without warning for any reason, and also lose their job for practically any reason, so employers of casuals (in my field) are hesitant to upskill staff because it costs them "IF" the employee decides to quit immediately after receiving training (employees tend to shift between companies quite a bit in my field.) Keep in mind that most employers of my field only employ on Casual basis, despite generally requesting at least ~40 hours per week.
If the employer doesn't really care about employees, and the employee is on a casual/contract with the contract running out, the employer can simply offer that work to someone who has more official training courses/certificates, or request them to be taken, out of working hours (unpaid,) and at the persons expense. It is up to the individual person whether they want to pay for the course/certificate to keep the work, and even then, it is still up to the employer to take on the same person, or offer the position/contract to someone who already has it/has more relevant training.

There is no guarentee or requirements for the same person to get the contract/further employment.

In addition, some employees in my field say that potential staff must have their own PPE (personal protective equipment) including work-specific gear, clothing, overalls, chemical masks, gumboots, steel-caps, etc. If you don't have your own, the employer simply says they chose someone else, or that your employment relies on you providing your own safety gear. While legislation says that the employer is required to provide a safe working place, the employer simply employs someone who can provide their own safety equipment for no cost. Again, casual employment, and an abundance of staff willing or ignorant of employer requirements.
 
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My sympathies Nix.

*serves consolatory drink

*serves Dew

*serves wine

*Serves sangria

*serves water

Good news is rain here is decimating the snow pack. Bad news is, back to -9 Friday night. Oh well....
 
Training redux!

My immediate boss is having kittens!! I got a phone call from her saying that we will come to some sort of arrangement about the missing unit and for god's sake don't leave!
 
Ah, the perils of being a sessional teacher. I received a few emails from my head of section yesterday and the discussion went like this:

HoS: It has come to my attention that you don't have a particular unit in your teaching qualification that is now mandatory. We are running a training program for this unit within the next month, it is subsidised but there will be out of pocket expenses

Me: My wife is having brain surgery in two weeks, I don't have the time or interest in doing it at this time.

HoS: I am sorry to here of your wife's operation, I hope everything goes well. Rules are rules though. Thank you for the years you have spent working at this institution.

*sigh*
That is rotten and awful and wrong, in other words, it sounds like you're working in education. I've seen similar situations here over the years. In some cases, it was a teacher who was offered to do the unit or course required and just refused, and in some cases the teacher just failed at the necessary courses and such and in both those cases I'd say it is grounds to discontinue, but in your case they could have shown you some courtesy at least unless they could come up with another underlying issue.
 
Training redux!

My immediate boss is having kittens!! I got a phone call from her saying that we will come to some sort of arrangement about the missing unit and for god's sake don't leave!
Only just see this now, hope that works out!! Having kittens is a great expression providing it's not the one in Cyrax's avatar....
 
Training redux!

My immediate boss is having kittens!! I got a phone call from her saying that we will come to some sort of arrangement about the missing unit and for god's sake don't leave!

That is a strange conjunction of thoughts there. Lol.


Can you still see how many posts you have in a thread? I don't see it anymore.
 
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