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I'm stuck in an endless loop of circular logic. Can someone please explain time travel as a plot device?

I just watched the X-Men movie where Wolverine goes back in time to alter the course of history in order to stop the Sentinels. Let's think about this for a second...

Bad guys call checkmate in 3. Good guys send someone back in time to prevent bad guys from coming to power. History changes, and bad guys never come to power. It follows then, that good guy never has a reason to go back in time, therefore the bad guys are never prevented from coming into power!

If history is changed, then the timeline that involved the time travel never happens, therefore the problem is never prevented...

Time travel makes no sense!
 
You made one simple error in your reasoning: You tried to make time travel as a plot device make sense.
 
I will have been making a simple error, but I came from the future to tell myself to let it go. But since I would have let the thought go in the future sense of the past, then I wouldn't have needed to travel back in the second place, because I never would have been thinking back to the past (in the future) about how to prevent this giant circle of illogical thought, and therefore never would have been being in the position to have gone back to begin with.

Thus, how can anyone, who will have been going back in time, ever actually go back in time? At least to purposefully alter the course of history.

And I'm completely sober?
 
logoutzero said:
I will have been making a simple error, but I came from the future to tell myself to let it go. But since I would have let the thought go in the future sense of the past, then I wouldn't have needed to travel back in the second place, because I never would have been thinking back to the past (in the future) about how to prevent this giant circle of illogical thought, and therefore never would have been being in the position to have gone back to begin with.

Thus, how can anyone, who will have been going back in time, ever actually go back in time? At least to purposefully alter the course of history.

And I'm completely sober?
Click to expand...

Alternate realities. The point at which you arrive in the past, splits the time line in to two separate paths. The Path you came from continues on as it was and you never actually alter that reality. lets call it path A.
Path B is the split path you created when you travelled back in time. So this is the reality you affect and you are now separated entirely from Path A. thus when you finish doing whatever you intended to do you don't actually go back to the future. Because that future is in Path A which you can no longer reach. Instead you travel forward along Path B until you reach the equivalent point at which you left.

TLDR: White Man Voodoo a.k.a. kegs did it
 
KESTEGS SHOULDN'T READ WHATS HIDDEN BY THE SPOILER, it might lead to explosions.
Kegs is the source, cause and solution to everything. Don't let him read this though his over inflated ego might just explode.

Like Corax says, alternate timelines, still doesn't make a whole lot of sense but at least its better then the circular thing.
Just go so far back to your parrents and tell them to tell their kid never to bother with timetravel that its too much hassle, if that doesn't work just kick your dad in the nuts hard enough so you'll never be born and you wont have to ponder about timetravel.
You'll now when you've kicked hard enough when you suddenly dissappear like you have never excisted.
 
Pb_pal said:
@Ariadne - I know I don't poke my head in here too often, but I really have to second what kamap said. My wife and I have both dealt with similar situations from both our families (my parents, her grandparents - we no longer speak to either). The hardest part is truly understanding that it isn't your fault, there's nothing you can do to change them now, and there was never anything you could have done that would have changed the course of this. The frustrating part for me was that no matter how hard I tried to work things out and salvage relationships, it's completely impossible if one party will not admit any wrongs. I look at it this way; would I maintain contact with a friend who treated me this way? Would I feel bad about removing them from my life? That's a resounding no, for me. Family shouldn't get preferential treatment just because they happen to be related to you. Relationships are earned, not inherited.

If you haven't already, look into narcissistic parents and the psychology behind it. It really helped me to realize how their brains are working in these situations, and although I can't relate to it on a personal level, it helps to understand just why the hell they do some of the stuff that they do (and it always helps to see that there are many many people out there dealing with the same -or similar- situations). As kamap said, sometimes you just need someone to freaking LISTEN to you, so seeking out a professional (if that's an option) could be immensely helpful as well.

I'm terribly sorry you're having to deal with this. I wish you the absolute best, and hope that you can shed the guilt from this. You don't deserve it at all. Feel free to PM me anytime if you want to talk.
Click to expand...
Thanks (also to Kamap and Kestegs)

I've had counseling and it helped me a great deal - it's also what made me decide that for my own sanity and health I must limit contact to a minimum. It's now down to phonecalls. I don't visit them, and they are not allowed to visit me (I don't want them in my house, touching my things, telling me how to do things in my own house and if I'm not listening they will just do it the way they feel it should be).

I know of narcissistic parents, and having read about it I don't think my parents are that. Just blind to their own actions, genuinly believing they are supportive, loving and caring parents when they're not.

The analogy of "and if it were a friend" is a good one and helpful. But as I said, when it's family you always feel that nagging voice. Kestegs, I know that's in my head, but it's not helping when everyone else gets on with their parents generally. I'm not in a well of selfpity thinking that everyone else is in a perfect situation, just that the situations where they don't get on with their parents are tolerable and within limits and that they're dealing with parents with whom they can actually talk. When my parents keep coming with their "but we want to talk about this" (me distancing myself) that just comes down to "that means we talk and you listen."

When my parents die, nothing will have changed. I cannot change them (and even if I could I don't have the right to) but it makes me feeling like this from time to time.
My sister and I both feel this, I think. But my mother resented me far more than she resented my sister, so the abuse she got was my mother's general behaviour. I was singled out and got the worst blows. She never realised and mother carefully but without thinking she was doing that has tried to create a rivalry and hatred between me and my sister. That failed - I get on with her and we talk.

She's chosen to remain in contact, even though it tires her out and doesn't do anything for her selfconfidence or strength. She knows why I have chosen to sever contact as much as possible, and understands.
 
@Ariadne : I've been mulling over your post for a few days and forgive me for taking so long to contribute. You know that I know your pain, and I know what you're going through. My parents are better now and it's my ex-husband who is the toxic one, the one I have to interact with every day and who shows up in my house in a 9 year old body all the time.

I hate when people trying to give support just talk about themselves because I'm not trying to talk about myself - I'm trying to let you know that you're not alone with this pain. The thing I wanted to share was this: there's a guy where I work (I work for Harvard) who is a student, and he has two artificial legs. Both legs go above the knee and he wears shorts a lot, so you can see them. He carries a backpack around and he walks stiffly, because he is walking on his knees, and honestly you have to actually look at him to notice it. I have so much admiration for him. I suspect he's a soldier who got his legs blown off by an IED because we have a lot of military types around here studying, but I don't know for sure and it doesn't really matter. I got on the elevator with him once and I blurted out "I have so much admiration for you," and he seemed a bit taken aback and said "Yeah, I've been through some stuff ..."

My point is that his pain is on the outside where everyone can see it, whereas your pain (and mine) is on the inside where no one can see it unless we share it. In some ways I'm jealous of him for that. But also, his pain (and ours) is never going to go away. He is never going to have legs again. He is never going to put his toes in the sand or try out new shoes or get a foot rub. We are the same. There are parts of us that are so badly damaged that they will never heal. But that's OK. We can live with it, just as he lives with his artificial legs. We aren't ever going to have the kind of carefree existence that people with working family relationships (or working legs) have, but we are still going to live our lives to the fullest. It's OK to carry this pain because it has to be, and somehow accepting that helps.

hope this wasn't too long ...
 
@logoutzero : You, on the other hand, are COMPLETELY alone with your pain. Don't ever watch Dr Who, dude! You can't cross your own time stream, don't ever meet yourself in the past, etc. HA! :p
 
Had a talk about my future with my manager last week. Wanted to try and study for a different profession than i have now. But as it turned out the manager had different plans. Ofc. i could still do so, but completely in my own time. Right. Also found out that household work should not be called work. According to her anyway.

So it would seem that i'll be ditched somewhere else. Probably first half of next year. Travel time, nice as it was now, will probably almost double. And there's a good chance i'll have to follow one or more courses (also in my own time, that somehow manager considers to be time i should spend working, without getting paid for it). Yay. Not. Supposedly it's good for my career. More likely they can get more money for me elsewhere. Needless to say i'm not very enthusiastic about the whole thing.

Hopefully holiday in a week. That's to say, i got one planned but we got quite a bit to do in this last week and it's not certain yet that everything will be done before that. So it's not entirely impossible i'll be asked to work a bit then. We'll see how that goes.

Destiny got some new feature. Sparrow racing. Initially i wasn't too enthusiastic about racing in a FPS game, but after trying it i was having some fun with it. (Sparrows are a vehicle in Destiny. Kinda comparable with motorcycles without wheels, propelled somewhat like a hoovercraft)

I've never been into pvp, but i was thinking about doing it. And since the sparrow racing kinda also is pvp i decided to give the 'real pvp' a try too. So Sunday evening i did a few matches. With very mixed results. Initially i had a matchtype which was 6vs6 where i felt like i was participating (despite finishing in bottom 2). Then i had a different 6vs6 type match where i got blown away left, right and center. Every time i thought i was kinda chasing someone to shoot them i got shot from behind, or from the side, or they saw me coming and shot me right in the face.
Last match type i tried so far was a 3vs3 match. At these matches i did surprisingly well. Did two of them and had the most kills in both of them. Don't know if i was just getting better, had some other noob players in there or if this type of match suites me better, but i guess we'll see after i have some more matches under my belt.
Still learning the maps cause they're quite different from pvm so i really started with a disadvantage compared to the more experienced players. Besides that i'm also still trying out what weapons are best to use and stuff like that, so hopefully i'll get my k/d ratio (kill/death) up a bit after i get some more practise.
 
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