Diablo IV! [Spoiler Thread]

[art_vandelay]

That being said, after reading a few conversations on this very topic, I saw a lot of people floating the idea of bundling any such project with that long-sought-yet-will-never-be-developed 1.15, complete with more elite uniques, runewords, etc. For about 2 minutes, the idea really intrigued me, but I quickly settled into more-or-less your thought of "don't screw with our beloved D2" (beyond a possible graphics enhancement). Sure, it's got plenty of flaws, but at this point, they're flaws that we've all come to know and, well maybe not love, but at least appreciate. They're part of what gives D2 its unique flavor (at least to me).

This the only reason I consider a thread about an online-only (potentially pay2win) game to be appropriate at all in the D2 Single Player Forum. After all patch 1.13 was released before D3 to promote the new installment and 'reactivate' the old fanbase. So we will most likely see 1.15 sometime between now and the release of D4 and as you say it will be a gamble whether the changes will be good or not. (why they would release a remaster just to promote D4 is beyond me... won't happen)

The changes will most likely be shallow: fixing some (but not all) things that people have been complaining about on the official forums for a decade now (there's a huge list of bugs floating around that places, saw it here as well) or simply reusing old assets (which is what the Pandemonium Event was). Even if we get new items they might just be more 'Last Wish'-tier stuff.

Best case scenario they will only change things for the worse that can be circumvented with timetravel like swapping the 'Damage +' on Grief with '+% Enhanced Damage' or nerfing drop rates. On the flip side they might destroy important gameplay mechanics in an attempt to fix 'bugs' (pit vipers, gloams+pitspawn's crew, LF not needing to hit to pierce, CE LE bug, aurastacking) which might ruin the game too much to play 1.15 at all.

Best thing to come out this either way is the fact that the SPF will take the new patch apart and find all the changes (good or bad) together in about a week.


(I swear I didn't intend to be this pessimistic when I started this post )

 

[Lemstar]

Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but I don't know why people keep think d2 remastered might happen.

other considerations about why it'd make sense or not aside, rumors of an announcement circulated around the same time that D4 and OW2 were leaked

 

[maxicek]

First views look encouraging but there is much opportunity for change in the next 2+? years.

Gameplay > Graphics or we would all be playing D3. IIRC D2 was criticised for dated graphics at launch?

For me the beauty of D2 is the choices you get forced to make. If you have less important stats, you have less to choose, this makes it less engaging.

For example:
D2 - 3 jewellery slots, 5 armour, weapon & shield. Balance leech, life, resists, FHR, getting enough strength & dext, IAS, MF and CBF

D3 - Get primary stat & crit across many more slots.

Hopefully D4 will encourage build diversity.

I’m also wondering what the system requirements will be and if they will release a Mac version at launch.

For me the most compelling reason for some kind of a new patch is a 64 bit version to support modern OS.

 

[Kitteh1]

This the only reason I consider a thread about an online-only (potentially pay2win) game to be appropriate at all in the D2 Single Player Forum. After all patch 1.13 was released before D3 to promote the new installment and 'reactivate' the old fanbase. So we will most likely see 1.15 sometime between now and the release of D4 and as you say it will be a gamble whether the changes will be good or not. (why they would release a remaster just to promote D4 is beyond me... won't happen)

The changes will most likely be shallow: fixing some (but not all) things that people have been complaining about on the official forums for a decade now (there's a huge list of bugs floating around that places, saw it here as well) or simply reusing old assets (which is what the Pandemonium Event was). Even if we get new items they might just be more 'Last Wish'-tier stuff.

Best case scenario they will only change things for the worse that can be circumvented with timetravel like swapping the 'Damage +' on Grief with '+% Enhanced Damage' or nerfing drop rates. On the flip side they might destroy important gameplay mechanics in an attempt to fix 'bugs' (pit vipers, gloams+pitspawn's crew, LF not needing to hit to pierce, CE LE bug, aurastacking) which might ruin the game too much to play 1.15 at all.

Best thing to come out this either way is the fact that the SPF will take the new patch apart and find all the changes (good or bad) together in about a week.


(I swear I didn't intend to be this pessimistic when I started this post )

We kind of discuss everything here because in some ways, the SPF operates as its own little forum

 

[maxicek]

I would argue we are the Single Player Forum, not the offline forum. But then we have an MP sub forum too...

 

[art_vandelay]

Well Single Player doesn't just mean that you play alone. It also means Time Travel, complete control over your characters (no deletion after inactivity), the ability to mod (RWM and GoMule, anyone?) and direct access to the game files which allows us to understand the game at the level we currently do. All of that is essential to how SP is played around here.

And if I read correctly they are already planning content that requires player interaction, such as 'World Bosses'.

But yeah, the SPF is the de facto general forum here and one D4 thread won't do it any harm

 

[Dispo96]

Just to throw in my two cents... Honestly I like the direction the game is going but they have a lot to prove and a lot to stand up against with D2, when I default back to playing diablo (which I have recently again) I never re-install diablo 3, it's always diablo 2, which is crazy because the game is so old now but it's the feel, the different builds, the grit, the p8 solo sf hc style I like that I just can't get anywhere else. I do think if there's a company that can do it, it's blizzard so we will see. I own Wolcen Beta, I own Torchlight Frontiers, I own a bunch of other betas/alphas to games I thought had potential and truly none of them stack up. I do enjoy playing PoE but the game changes so frequently it's hard to stay caught up and the mechanics are so in depth I just honestly don't have the time or want to take the time to learn the entire game so HC isn't even enjoyable.

Short version ;

I think D4 has potential but I am not holding my breathe.

 

[Ultimatium1]

Well, the atmosphere and the artstyle is definitely a step in the right direction, but its not going to cut the mustard. If they truly want to make a good diablo game, and not just try to salvage their reputation, they are going to have to do more than just that. I think that what we need, is a game similar to diablo 2, but with a higher resolution and better graphics. So they need to get things like the loot system, itemization, skill points and runewords right as well.

 

[Arctodus]

The more I think about D4, the more what I want to see in the game becomes clear. Ultimately, I can go on board with things like Cooldowns, simplified skill tree, absence of stats, monetization of cosmetics and such if a few requirements are met.

1) Itemization not based on linear scaling, but on randomly generated affixes in a format that makes every item potentially good. (Good cheap items should be super rare, though.)
2) Real build variety. Every skill should be useable and be part of some build or another, but they shouldn’t be purely a ‘’cosmetic’’ or playstyle choice, aka all skills will get you through the game in an homogenous manner. I feel there should be ‘’general’’ builds (cookie-cutter?) that are real good at tackling the whole game without too much trouble. However, there should also be specialization, which would make certains builds excel in defined and niche situations, but less so in others. Think Smiter and Pitzerker in D2. However, for specialization to work, there should be...
3) Difficulty based on variety. You decided to go all out on lightning damage with your sorceress ? She’ll tear through parts of the game, but will have a real hard time against others. And you don’t necessarily need to reintroduce the ‘’breaking resistance’’ mechanic; simply have monsters with higher resistance to some form of damage than others and have a max of, say, 95% on highly resistant monsters. You can be beat anything in the game with a specialized build, but will have to slog through some parts. It’s a choice you have to make.
4) Decisions should matter. If you can switch between builds easily, the points above are moot, because you simply have to respec to meet any challenges along the way.

Anyway, I don’t believe these principles are super deterministic, which means that Blizzard could go along these lines without having to replicate a modern D2. I believe however they would respect the general spirit of the game - a game that still have an active community nearly 20 years after its appearance. Not many games can make such claim. The aesthetics are definitively a step in the right direction, but a crisp, coherent gameplay and real builds variety could make that game absolutely stellar.

 

[Klonki]

No, they did not.

Werewolf and werebear looked like in D2?

 

[drmalawi]

Werewolf and werebear looked like in D2?

Some skills, but far from all. ...

 

[NagisaFurukawa]

I only watched a bit just now, and it looks pretty good visually, but are there still only six keybinds allowed at a time? Maybe I'm just corrupted by 10k hours of FFXIV, but I much prefer 15+ skills bound to cycle through in a single combat as needed like in D2. I guess fewer skills makes it much more console friendly. The skill tree looks promising. Hopefully I'll be forced to make 200 characters with an identity again instead of 5 who can do everything. No idea if they mentioned it, but please let there not be account-wide paragon level again...

 

[maxicek]

Hi Nagisa!

Account bound Paragon level is really weird. This confused the hell out of me when I first found out about it.

 

[TheGuardianXXXIII]

I was hype at first, especially with all of the talk about "returning to diablo's roots", but after hearing all of the lead dev's responses to important questions regarding the systems (itemization, endgame, scaling, trading, etc), i feel like they have no idea what made d2 so great. It seems like from most of their answers, just being "dark" is all that separated D2 from D3, which is completely missing the mark. So they desaturated all the graphics and added more shadows and call it "returning to their roots" lol...

They are still going to have a paragon-like system, which is just an awful and lazy "end game" when combined with monster scaling. Infinite power sucks the life out of playing because you feel like you always need to be grinding your "main". And when combined with scaling monster difficulty it just turns the game into a hamster wheel (doesn't matter how fast you run, it just spins faster and you still go nowhere). I want to outscale areas so i can go back and feel like a god and destroy stuff. Static difficulty please!

They still have linear scaling itemization where each tier is inherently better always than the previous tier... This basically invalidates all early game finds and gear, and nothing before "end-game" matters. It also renders all qualities of loot lower than what you have obsolete and it becomes nothing more than crafting mats.

They still have "main stat" in the form of "Attack" and "Defense" generic stats, which increases linearly with ilvl, also making all previous gear you found shit in comparison because they have lower main stat.

They don't like trading, but seem to be looking at a compromised system that involves some trading, which could end up OK as long as they don't restrict normal drop super rare items. Would feel fucking awful to find something like Death's Web a 2nd time and not be able to trade it. Hopefully the bound, non-tradables are limited to something special like a unique world boss drop that you can only get 1 of. I still don't like the idea of them telling players how they have to play. All styles should be viable... the Traders, the crafters, the farmers, the xyz....


All that said, there has been a huge amount of high quality, well-thought and well-spoken feedback from big ARPG community members/streamers. Hopefully with all of this passionate feedback, blizzard will rethink some of their systems designs and steer the game back towards it's actual roots (the underlying gameplay systems, not dark graphics).