D2r Patch 2.4

[NorthDakota]

I'm certainly glad that my ribcracker druid is still safely in 1.14d. This is a BIG nerf to fury druids, right?

I can't imagine this will go live as is (get ready to eat your words, future me?). It's already buzzing pretty big in the wider community that this is a problem.

 

[saracen85]

Looking at how finishers now auto spend charges, does this mean Dragon Tail (over normal attack) is the finisher of choice for quick single release?

 

[NorthDakota]

Undocumented PTR change:

Holding down the mouse button to cast will no longer stop casting after a kill

Not only that, but melee abilities on left click also will continue attacking a new target if you mouseover a new target after one dies. It's sort of weird, like you have a little time (like a second maybe?) before it'll go to the old behavior, or like slightly changed behavior? where you'll just run and not attack new targets without clicking again. Kind of like a right click for a bit. This is a change right? Original behavior holding left click on a target when it dies is you just stand there like an idiot right? Now you can either mouse over a new target and continue attacking or you'll just start running. It's great!

It's a really nice change for melee characters actually. I didn't notice this change at first because I was playing on a controller so much.


There are a few more undocumented changes:

Barb:

• Find Item receives +1% synergy bonus from Find Potion (!) - this may be.. unintended or something weird - it is not reflected on the character skill menu. Instead it was dug directly out of skills.txt, previously the chance was just "dm12" whereas now it is "dm12+skill('Find Potion'.blvl)*par8"
• Grim Ward can break physical immunities

Heaven's Brethren:

• 2 Piece bonus changed from 50% Stamina Regen to 10% Life Steal
• Added additional 3 Piece bonus: Adds 3-297 Fire Damage (+3 per level)
• Added additional full set bonus: Damage reduced by 24%

Soo that's actually pretty beefy. But still like at level 68 and using that weapon I can't think of a situation where you'd be like yeah.. that's what I want, this totally limp weapon. It's just an insanely tanky set.

 

[TopHatCat64]

Undocumented PTR change:

Holding down the mouse button to cast will no longer stop casting after a kill

Not only that, but melee abilities on left click also will continue attacking a new target if you mouseover a new target after one dies. It's sort of weird, like you have a little time (like a second maybe?) before it'll go to the old behavior, or like slightly changed behavior? where you'll just run and not attack new targets without clicking again. Kind of like a right click for a bit. This is a change right? Original behavior holding left click on a target when it dies is you just stand there like an idiot right? Now you can either mouse over a new target and continue attacking or you'll just start running. It's great!

It's a really nice change for melee characters actually. I didn't notice this change at first because I was playing on a controller so much.

Hmm how does this work if the new target is out of weapon range?

 

[NorthDakota]

Hmm how does this work if the new target is out of weapon range?

You just trot on over and smackem

 

[TopHatCat64]

You just trot on over to them and smackem.

Interesting! I think this might finally give melee paladins that QOL boost they've needed since...uh, launch. Having to left click every single monster to attack always gets annoying, especially in comparison to other classes being able to just hold down right click and "attack move" through the game.

 

[snickersnack]

I can't imagine this will go live as is (get ready to eat your words, future me?). It's already buzzing pretty big in the wider community that this is a problem.

We'll see. My confidence in the D2R team isn't that high (vision, not competence) and news like this drives it lower.

 

[snickersnack]

Interesting! I think this might finally give melee paladins that QOL boost they've needed since...uh, launch. Having to left click every single monster to attack always gets annoying, especially in comparison to other classes being able to just hold down right click and "attack move" through the game.

Yeah, that would be a good change if it works like that. I assume that the change won't affect skills that don't benefit from that, e.g. Blessed Hammer. If somehow it does affect less ideal skills right now, that's probably something that'll get fixed.

 

[NorthDakota]

I wrote a big long thing while trying to figure out exactly what changed but... TL;DR -



Left click - behavior made consistent across all abilities - when a monster dies under held left click, either

1. you move your mouse over a new target right away and the ability casts at that new target, or
2. you move your mouse over open ground and your character moves as though you just clicked and held it normally (you won't acquire new targets)

Right Click - behavior improved for melee abilities

1. For melee abilities - right click and hold - doesn't matter if you click an enemy or the ground, you will attack and move and continue to attack and move acquiring new targets as you mouse over them.
2. For "spell" abilities - right click and hold - cast in place until released, behavior unchanged.

Quick Casting - behavior improved for melee abilities

1. For melee abilities - using a keyboard, while holding the hotkey for a melee ability, you will attack and move, acquiring new targets, and continue attacking and moving until the hotkey is released. (before, you would simply move around unless you pressed it while mousing over an enemy, never acquiring a target)

One class benefits less from these changes, and it's paladin. Zeal users need an aura on their right click so it has to be melee on left click. However, with quick casting enabled, it solves this problem. You can have right click functionality by using a keyboard hotkey and just pressing and holding it. I think this is the best way to play melee paladin (aside from a controller) as you can avoid spam clicking all the time and don't have to worry about picking up random items and etc.



So @snickersnack - blessed hammer right click functions normally, while blessed hammer held left clicks function as described above. You'll cast till the target dies, when it dies, if you mouse over a new target blessed hammer will continue casting and you will remain stationary. If the target dies and you don't mouseover a new target, you will begin moving towards your cursor as though you clicked normally with left click. To me, it still feels worse than using the "quick cast" option for hammerdin, which to me feels like a million times better. Or even better, using a controller (except teleport is a little butts, but I think the benefit of doing my best jabba the hut impression slouched in a comfy chair outweighs that)

To me, these types of changes are the most exciting.

 

[TopHatCat64]

One class benefits less from these changes, and it's paladin. Zeal users need an aura on their right click so it has to be melee on left click. However, with quick casting enabled, it solves this problem. You can have right click functionality by using a keyboard hotkey and just pressing and holding it. I think this is the best way to play melee paladin (aside from a controller) as you can avoid spam clicking all the time and don't have to worry about picking up random items and etc.

*Pumps fist*

 

[maxicek]

I'm certainly glad that my ribcracker druid is still safely in 1.14d. This is a BIG nerf to fury druids, right?

All wereform characters would be my guess, but I'm too lazy to check. If she uses the normal character animation, Dual Dream Bear Sorc is capped at 10FPA with a Phase Blade.

 

[NorthDakota]

Uhhh I guess it was intended to nerf wereforms into the ground. Somehow missed this release yesterday:

PezRadar
Community Manager

Hi all -

We have seen a bunch of discussion and some confusion regarding some of the changes in PTR for the WW and WB attack speed. The dev team wanted to get a note out regarding the motivations behind this change and some clarification. You can read that below.

---

Since the Druid was introduced in 2001, the attack speed calculation for Werewolf and Werebear forms has been… quirky. The attack speed contributions of the equipped weapon were used multiple times in the calculation, giving them more than twice the impact compared with other attack speed calculations. This quirky calculation involving the weapon attack speed would also ignore the usual IAS cap.In the PTR, we have changed the attack speed calculation for Werewolf and Werebear forms to match other attack speed calculations. Weapon attack speed will be given the same importance in the calculation as for any other player character’s attack speed. In fact, the Werebear’s attack speed should exactly match the attack speed for an untransformed Druid. The base Werewolf attack speed also matches the untransformed Druid, but is enhanced by the IAS bonuses from the Werewolf skill.

Motivations:
There are a few motivations for this change:

1. Because of the extraordinary weight weapon attack speed had on transformed attack speeds, high weapon attack speed was overwhelmingly the most important consideration for which weapon to equip. This change should encourage more diversity in weapon selection.
2. The quirky attack speed calculation was a poor player experience for those not in the know - in particular at lower levels of play without optimized weapons. While this change has reduced attack speed when using weapons with very high IAS, it has increased attack speed for the majority of weapons - especially weapons encountered at lower levels of play.

We would like to encourage PTR players to experiment with different weapon choices for their Werewolf and Werebear forms. It is not our intent to reduce the viability of the transformed Druid. We will be looking at ways to improve the performance of the transformed Druid without sacrificing the benefits obtained from unifying the attack speed calculations.

I'm trying to stay positive about this (hoping people will get really loud and it won't go live as is). The only nerf on the patch notes and it's a big one. Who liked using ribcracker an tombreaver on a build anyways? "Try experimenting with other weapon choices!" There's only one weapon people will be "experimenting" with now and it's grief, or no weapon because you'll never be playing these builds. Very upset.

 

[TopHatCat64]

I'm trying to stay positive about this (hoping people will get really loud and it won't go live as is). The only nerf on the patch notes and it's a big one. Who liked using ribcracker an tombreaver on a build anyways? "Try experimenting with other weapon choices!" There's only one weapon people will be "experimenting" with now and it's grief, or no weapon because you'll never be playing these builds. Very upset.

I totally agree.

While I understand Blizz's desire to open up the pool of viable weapons for wereform druids, they failed to take into account the overall pool of BIS weapons for all melee characters. Because that pool is incredible shallow and its lone occupant is the aforementioned Grief. 99% of all melee builds kill most efficiently with Grief and 2nd place (whatever it is) isn't even in the same ballpark.

Wereform druids were the sole class* holding the line against Grief being BIS for every melee character, due to the weapon speed quirks. They actually gave us a reason to use different weapons. As good as Ribbie and Tomb Reaver are, chalk up another win to Grief if we're putting them head to head on an "even" playing field.

*and avenger paladins

 

[maxicek]

In fact, the Werebear’s attack speed should exactly match the attack speed for an untransformed Druid.

Data:
Character:	Druid
Primary Weapon:	Phaseblade
Skill:	Standard
IAS:	0
Weapon-IAS:	0

IAS	attack speed [ticks]	attacks per second
0	14	1.78
7	13	1.92
20	12	2.08
39	11	2.27
70	10	2.5

Welcome to the world of the 10FPA Werebear.
I don't think even Grief will save this one.

Edit: From a quick check 10FPA would be the fastest with any single hander, you can get 9FPA with a Feral Axe and 105IAS.

Blizzard on 2.4 Druid Werewolf and Werebear attack speed changes

https://www.purediablo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/druid.jpg Blizzard tackles "quirky" Werewolf and Werebear attack speeds. Check out the full article

www.purediablo.com

My comment on the sorc assumes that she also uses her standard attack speeds.

 

[Kartongen]

If they use native attack speed, wont barbarian, paladin, amazin and assassin be the only decent options? I dont know all ias tables in my head, by I recall the other three have quite poor attackspeed with almost all weapons.

Edit: To clarify my point: will this not just make the old saying "druid is neither the best bear nor the best wolf" even more true.

Edit 2: Also, please widen possible grief based from swords only, if it is to be kept. Give me a grief spear.

 

[AntiRush]

What a terrible change. Ruins an entire class for melee dueling, too.

 

[TopHatCat64]

The other frustrating aspect of this change is that it doesn't fit from a lore perspective.

The Diablo teams love to use the phrase "class fantasy" when they talk about why they make the decisions they do on classes. Skills and mechanics should fit what you expect the class to be able to do. The assassin should be stealthy and nimble. The barbarian should be strong and hardy. You get the picture.

Which brings us to druids. Druids are supposed to be at one with nature. They use nature's powers to enhance their fighting prowess. Now, why would a druid transform into a werewolf/bear? So that he could be just as fast and strong as he is as human being? Of course not! It's to be bigger, stronger and yes, faster than he can be as man.

Having an innately faster attack speed as as werewolf/bear makes perfect sense as a part of the druid's class fantasy.

Why the heck would they change that?

 

[snickersnack]

The other frustrating aspect of this change is that it doesn't fit from a lore perspective.

The Diablo teams love to use the phrase "class fantasy" when they talk about why they make the decisions they do on classes. Skills and mechanics should fit what you expect the class to be able to do. The assassin should be stealthy and nimble. The barbarian should be strong and hardy. You get the picture.

Which brings us to druids. Druids are supposed to be at one with nature. They use nature's powers to enhance their fighting prowess. Now, why would a druid transform into a werewolf/bear? So that he could be just as fast and strong as he is as human being? Of course not! It's to be bigger, stronger and yes, faster than he can be as man.

Having an innately faster attack speed as as werewolf/bear makes perfect sense as a part of the druid's class fantasy.

Why the heck would they change that?

At the risk of being cynical..... maybe the D4 druid looks slow in comparison to the D2 druid, so they slow down the D2 druid?

More realistically, I suspect that they'll either buff IAS given by the wereforms or they'll adjust something else in the skills to get the wereforms to be capable of high speeds without relying so much on the on-weapon IAS. The other problems you point out (e.g. making Grief #1 here as well) will probably persist.

 

[flakrabbit24]

So that he could be just as fast and strong as he is as human being?

Made me lol. They should add this to the skill tool tip.

 

[Vang]

Good grief... #cancelGrief?

That alone is a problem. I think I made a Grief once. I play too little on twinked or stick with a character to use it, but it alone frustrates me that they pigeonhole all good RWs into a couple bases, the new Plague for example was a perfect fit for an Assassin. Instead, they make it a sword only.

@NorthDakota That is funny. I said the other day in a pm about how Heaven's got nothing and mentioned it in my survey. They need to add another thing or two and it'll be a decent set, to bad you'll find every other set you could use before it.