D2R or not?
- Thread starter Excalibur
- Start date
@Luhkoh I think this statement alone sums up everything about your point of view so it's only natural that you will never accept positively any changes in D2R regardless of being good or bad. 
When the game is abandoned and receives no updates for years, players learn to live with the flaws and eventually incorporate them into their gameplay. Biggest example with the Vipers Poison Cloud bug which as you stated you prefer the bug within the game. While I understand that you developed a character around it that gave you the challenge you wanted, forced you to create a unique build and the satisfication of handling such a deadly attack (that would lose all of its value if moved to D2R) I hope you acknowledge that fixing it is definitely the right way to go.
D2R also fixed the ebug that we abused for years and some veteran players on these forums complained about it. We complain that the game is too easy and then we complain that the game doesn't offer us all the power we used to get.
TZs have really a great effect only on Act bosses in which case Andariel is a gold mine, I can't argue on that but as @drmalawi stated you have to take into account that you can't run her anytime you want. Had it not been for the SP calendar a member provided you would never know when Andariel is Terrorized and could end up without farming her for weeks or even months.
In the end, Sunder Charms allow you to farm anywhere you want (but still you need to make a good optimized build) and Terror Zones encourages you to try areas you never did in the past while also increasing the difficulty. Trust me, it's very refreshing to have many more options instead of farming the same spots all over again.
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When the game is abandoned and receives no updates for years, players learn to live with the flaws and eventually incorporate them into their gameplay. Biggest example with the Vipers Poison Cloud bug which as you stated you prefer the bug within the game. While I understand that you developed a character around it that gave you the challenge you wanted, forced you to create a unique build and the satisfication of handling such a deadly attack (that would lose all of its value if moved to D2R) I hope you acknowledge that fixing it is definitely the right way to go.
D2R also fixed the ebug that we abused for years and some veteran players on these forums complained about it. We complain that the game is too easy and then we complain that the game doesn't offer us all the power we used to get.
TZs have really a great effect only on Act bosses in which case Andariel is a gold mine, I can't argue on that but as @drmalawi stated you have to take into account that you can't run her anytime you want. Had it not been for the SP calendar a member provided you would never know when Andariel is Terrorized and could end up without farming her for weeks or even months.
Personally, I don't like them either. Not the fact that you can now farm anywhere (if your character is planned correctly) but mainly that you have to keep them in an already troubled inventory. But as I was following the official forums, immune monsters was something that the majority of players wanted to deal with. Most of the members complained about not being able to fully enjoy the game which forced Blizzard to introduce something. Out of all the suggestions the community posted, you can understand the pressure they underwent into this one to actually do something.
In the end, Sunder Charms allow you to farm anywhere you want (but still you need to make a good optimized build) and Terror Zones encourages you to try areas you never did in the past while also increasing the difficulty. Trust me, it's very refreshing to have many more options instead of farming the same spots all over again.
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Yes you can. It's a setting in the main menu before you load the game so the character itself has nothing to do with it.
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Sunder charms and TZ's are great for the game. No longer "need" to run pits and AT over and over again. And even with sunder charms, you need more sources of resistance reduction, otherwise mobs are stuck at 95% res (and some sources of resitance reduction like cold mastery, conviction, amp dmg, decrep, LR is only working at 1/5 efficiency). They also made the game "fresh"-now you need to rethink your builds a bit.
Some people think/thought that infinity is "cheating" too, like why do we allow ladder only runewords in single player via the textfile mod?
"Runedrops in 1.13+ is hacked, in 1.07 there is not even special color for them, the zod rune I got there was much harder than in 1.14d because now there it is just 100h cows"
Tyraels might is not even a useful item (maybe on mercs for nila runs). And I found mine after ~1k pit runs, grailing was not fun or challenging for me. Also found several other +10 point items while questing/leveling regular chars. Which is kinda anticlimactic. "We" want the items to be rare and hard to find, and we wanna grind for them? But if we are "too lucky" we get dissapointed? So having luck in that regard was a major part why I got tired of D2 back in the day - the challenge is RNG+time, not skill and creativity.
But again, one can list several theoretical and historical arguments. If one wanna play a really challenging version of D2 where grinding and leveling is much slower, and not having access to OP runewords like infinity and grief, play an ancient patch without RWM.
@Excalibur oh great, I thought one only could turn off TZ notifications. Thanks
Some people think/thought that infinity is "cheating" too, like why do we allow ladder only runewords in single player via the textfile mod?
"Runedrops in 1.13+ is hacked, in 1.07 there is not even special color for them, the zod rune I got there was much harder than in 1.14d because now there it is just 100h cows"
Tyraels might is not even a useful item (maybe on mercs for nila runs). And I found mine after ~1k pit runs, grailing was not fun or challenging for me. Also found several other +10 point items while questing/leveling regular chars. Which is kinda anticlimactic. "We" want the items to be rare and hard to find, and we wanna grind for them? But if we are "too lucky" we get dissapointed? So having luck in that regard was a major part why I got tired of D2 back in the day - the challenge is RNG+time, not skill and creativity.
But again, one can list several theoretical and historical arguments. If one wanna play a really challenging version of D2 where grinding and leveling is much slower, and not having access to OP runewords like infinity and grief, play an ancient patch without RWM.
@Excalibur oh great, I thought one only could turn off TZ notifications. Thanks
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b1ur
Active member
I will admit those sound nice! But I'm still very unsure and skeptical. Maybe when I get bored of LoD again I'll go ahead and buy it
SirName
Well-known member
Installing it is then the next big step after that.I will admit those sound nice! But I'm still very unsure and skeptical. Maybe when I get bored of LoD again I'll go ahead and buy it
I had to check this: I have owned it since february 2023. Still waiting install. I’ll do it soon. I promise.
@Excalibur I disagree with your first statement since I've listed several items that do sound like strict improvements, and I said that d2r seems like it might be the better game (ofc I mean in my personal opinion)... with terror zones off. I'm thinking of buying a new computer to pay it after all. Graphics, ubers, fohdin, swampy pit, and stony tomb all sound super fun.
But yeah the d2 single player post-game meta (runeword grail, holy grail, 99) is what I fell in love with. So it's true, changing that by more than like 25% is something I was never going to like. Right now I feel like its something like ~250 hours to 99, ~400 hours runeword grail (not considering the substantial overlap), and ~750 hours to grail. I would have welcomed something that brought the avg grail time down to like ~500 (preferably by reducing the likelihood tyraels is your last item, because the std deviation on grail time is too dang high). But not to <100.
@drmalawi i consider the fact you can only play in the "good" areas at random times a strict negative haha. Makes it feel like a waste to play any other time.
As for times I'm looking at @Nano 's sheet of adjeff he posted in the MFO, which was his experimental runtimes (very unoptimized) with that dropcalc that was discussed in the thread. Nano posted adjeff's for tons of areas and you can get roughly time per tyraels by adjeff x 300.
Again, I'm not really troubled by the logical inconsistency of "isn't this just like infinity?" or "it also felt like cheating when they upped the rune drops". I just care what makes a more fun game. And my opinion is that enigma (via increased rune drops) was a strict improvement (otherwise you just play sorc). And infinity too (increases good build diversity). But you still had to plan around immunities in the areas you wanted to run, and certain characters were good at some things and not at others. (druid kinda sucked at everything, but like I said LoD not perfect, just super good).
Agreed it will be nice not ONLY having pits and AT. I think stony tomb and swampy pit sound like great additions.
And who knows, maybe I'll get the game and fall in love with tzs, but I doubt it. Waiting around to run andy or meph sounds way less cool than blasting AT.
But yeah the d2 single player post-game meta (runeword grail, holy grail, 99) is what I fell in love with. So it's true, changing that by more than like 25% is something I was never going to like. Right now I feel like its something like ~250 hours to 99, ~400 hours runeword grail (not considering the substantial overlap), and ~750 hours to grail. I would have welcomed something that brought the avg grail time down to like ~500 (preferably by reducing the likelihood tyraels is your last item, because the std deviation on grail time is too dang high). But not to <100.
@drmalawi i consider the fact you can only play in the "good" areas at random times a strict negative haha. Makes it feel like a waste to play any other time.
As for times I'm looking at @Nano 's sheet of adjeff he posted in the MFO, which was his experimental runtimes (very unoptimized) with that dropcalc that was discussed in the thread. Nano posted adjeff's for tons of areas and you can get roughly time per tyraels by adjeff x 300.
Again, I'm not really troubled by the logical inconsistency of "isn't this just like infinity?" or "it also felt like cheating when they upped the rune drops". I just care what makes a more fun game. And my opinion is that enigma (via increased rune drops) was a strict improvement (otherwise you just play sorc). And infinity too (increases good build diversity). But you still had to plan around immunities in the areas you wanted to run, and certain characters were good at some things and not at others. (druid kinda sucked at everything, but like I said LoD not perfect, just super good).
Agreed it will be nice not ONLY having pits and AT. I think stony tomb and swampy pit sound like great additions.
And who knows, maybe I'll get the game and fall in love with tzs, but I doubt it. Waiting around to run andy or meph sounds way less cool than blasting AT.
All computer games are waste of time
I kinda like that there is a schedule website so I can plan a head my gameplay a bit (which is limited these days due to kid etc) like "ohh trav is TZ on wednesday 8 PM then I can play, let's gear up ", instead of "oh I can play let's hit the pits... again..." I think the way to enjoy TZ's is to have multiple chars up and running, and keep a note of their maps like "oh my javazon has a great black march map but her WSK map sucks", it offers more variaity to farming and playing.Have you asked yourself this question "if I were new to the diablo genre today, would I rather play D2LoD or D2R?"?
And "if I had completed the holy gail challenge in less than 100 hours in D2LoD, would I still be playing"?
same with sunder charms, they are not game breaking, they just open some small doors here and there. I think the advent of infinity was a much larger change than sunder charms. We agree that build diversity is a good thing.
@drmalawi for me it would be more like trav is tz wednesday 8pm, sucks for me... i cant play till 930 
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Yes.
- d2r no terror zones (assuming I had a decent computer)
- yes, id restart it in hc.
Also I don't think its possible to complete the grail in <100 hours in LoD. Find tyraels, sure. But grail except for tyraels is still like a 300-400 hour project. I'm sorry if finding tyraels early killed your grail motivation. It would've lit mine up, and I would have been grinding nonstop since I knew I could actually finish it.
.Yes.
- d2r no terror zones (assuming I had a decent computer)
- yes, id restart it in hc
. Also I don't think its possible to complete the grail in <100 hours in LoD. Find tyraels, sure. But grail except for tyraels is still like a 300-400 hour project. I'm sorry if finding tyraels early killed your grail motivation. It would've lit mine up, and I would have been grinding nonstop since I knew I could actually finish it.
It is possible, everything is possible if RNGesus blesses you enough 
I perhaps over exaggerated about finding TM early killed the motivation, but it was at least a part of it. The major part was that I got too deep into Grim Dawn - and I quit that too because the patches came out too frequently so I wasted so much time making builds and farming for items that later became more or less "useless". I will get back to Grim Dawn at some point, but they are still patching it (there is a rather big third expansion comming next year). So for that sake, I also enjoy playing a game that is "finished" so that I can theorycraft and farm in peace On the other hand, Grim Dawn is not as grindy as D2. Imagine farming LK to make that enigma, and then when you are just about do do it - the devs remove +1 teleport and adds "level 18 vigor" or something, and/or reverting back the concentration+blessed hammer 'bug' 
I perhaps over exaggerated about finding TM early killed the motivation, but it was at least a part of it. The major part was that I got too deep into Grim Dawn - and I quit that too because the patches came out too frequently so I wasted so much time making builds and farming for items that later became more or less "useless". I will get back to Grim Dawn at some point, but they are still patching it (there is a rather big third expansion comming next year). So for that sake, I also enjoy playing a game that is "finished" so that I can theorycraft and farm in peace
On the other hand, Grim Dawn is not as grindy as D2. Imagine farming LK to make that enigma, and then when you are just about do do it - the devs remove +1 teleport and adds "level 18 vigor" or something, and/or reverting back the concentration+blessed hammer 'bug'
@drmalawi yeah that would drive me bonkers in grim dawn, especially since I play slowly and like to progress over a couple of years. It's one of my main concerns about moving to d2r. I don't want to have to constantly reassess updates. I can see that being fun for ladder play, but frustrating for single player if you don't play a ton.
@Luhkoh yeah and Grim Dawn is single player only, so I really got tired of it - that they had updates like if it was "ladder reset" every 3-4 months, but it also had time and score based end game actitives which we kept track of on the forums (having in mind that people could cheat in items from hero editors...). So I guess devs wanted to keep the game balanced and updated for those reasons. Keep in mind that people like you and me who plays single player and want to have long term achievments and long lived chars are a huge minority. I bet my latest OP char in Grim Dawn (about 3 years old) is almost unplayable today Which is kinda sad, but that is life.
But let's get back to discussing TZ's. I think they are a great add on to the game, but they are not perfect for me either.
1) While I like the "randomness" of them, it would be nice if there were even more areas that could become TZ's and that there could be two of them active at the same time so that one at least had the option of TZ1 or TZ2 to play, and not TZ or A85 of your choice
2) They could remove the act bosses being TZ'ed due to extreme high drop rates (as has been discussed). I personally think they are more like a small "boost" but it is still rather "cheesy"
3) The exp is too good. I think an over all 50% penalty would be ok
4) There could be some other things added to the TZ's apart from sunder charms. Like keys that open up more super bosses, or materials to craft fun items like charms with "rare" (yellow) status etc.
5) They could also add some kind of in-game counter/achievment like "clear all TZ's in the game with a single char and obtain another shot at the hellforge/refill larzuk socket quest" etc.
Which is kinda sad, but that is life.But let's get back to discussing TZ's. I think they are a great add on to the game, but they are not perfect for me either.
1) While I like the "randomness" of them, it would be nice if there were even more areas that could become TZ's and that there could be two of them active at the same time so that one at least had the option of TZ1 or TZ2 to play, and not TZ or A85 of your choice
2) They could remove the act bosses being TZ'ed due to extreme high drop rates (as has been discussed). I personally think they are more like a small "boost" but it is still rather "cheesy"
3) The exp is too good. I think an over all 50% penalty would be ok
4) There could be some other things added to the TZ's apart from sunder charms. Like keys that open up more super bosses, or materials to craft fun items like charms with "rare" (yellow) status etc.
5) They could also add some kind of in-game counter/achievment like "clear all TZ's in the game with a single char and obtain another shot at the hellforge/refill larzuk socket quest" etc.
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sir_cyclops
Active member
it would be better if you could "enable the terror zone" for X hours once per week per char
Or maybe "buy" a TZ for one hour, of your choice for like a mid-rune or something. Or perfect gems etc
Or that TZ's can drop a certain item that when sold to charsi can unlock a TZ of your choice for 5 hours or something.
Or that TZ's can drop a certain item that when sold to charsi can unlock a TZ of your choice for 5 hours or something.
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Can you elaborate on that? Items from previous patches will retain their initial stats when moved to D2R just like it happens when you move them to 1.14d.
It's nice to see that a player of your level is enjoying D2R.
Recently I assembled a high-end PC. There's a huge improvement in my loading times but yeah, they still take some time to a point where I think 10 times stronger hardware than mine will not change anything.
Loading the game from the main menu is not slow but neither fast.
Moving from areas within the same act is quite fast.
Changing acts is what I would say takes the longest.
I also miss that one a lot but mainly because I wanted to play with a friend and not using online characters.
Well then, I am happy to hear that.
Terror Zones can be turned of so you can customize your own SP experience. But before being so much against them, give them a shot first. I assure you that if you avoid Andy and perhaps Memp you will enjoy the variety of the areas and keep with the pace you want regarding your grail journey. But be careful not getting used to it because it might be hard going back.
I play LoD because of nostalgia, not because I actually really enjoy the gameplay. Back then 20 years ago, I played mainly bnet and PvP. I had fully geared Hammerdin, BvC, PnB Nec, ES/FB Sorc, Trapsin, Wind Druid and Charger. Was fun PvP haha. Playing LoD brings back memories (and of a deceased online friend I had).
These days though I play mostly to achieve a goal that's very different from online play. I only want to beat the game on P8 full clear in single pass, using weapon dependent characters. So far I've done a Frenzy Barb. Fury druid is about 95% done. Next would be Strafezon, and possibly Blade Fury Sin, Dclaw Sin and WW barb. One project at a time though, no rush.
I actually have a secret dream for d2, which I doubt I'll ever be able to do. That is to find 7 other like minded players, and do a single pass run together using 4 zealots (blessed aim/conc/fana/might), 1 avenger (conviction), 1 glass cannon strafer, 1 fury druid and 1 berserk barb. Plenty of auras/BO/HoW or Oak for the team and berserk/vengeance for PI. Only concern would be the levels which may affect AR haha, not sure if those buffs would suffice.
These days though I play mostly to achieve a goal that's very different from online play. I only want to beat the game on P8 full clear in single pass, using weapon dependent characters. So far I've done a Frenzy Barb. Fury druid is about 95% done. Next would be Strafezon, and possibly Blade Fury Sin, Dclaw Sin and WW barb. One project at a time though, no rush.
I actually have a secret dream for d2, which I doubt I'll ever be able to do. That is to find 7 other like minded players, and do a single pass run together using 4 zealots (blessed aim/conc/fana/might), 1 avenger (conviction), 1 glass cannon strafer, 1 fury druid and 1 berserk barb. Plenty of auras/BO/HoW or Oak for the team and berserk/vengeance for PI. Only concern would be the levels which may affect AR haha, not sure if those buffs would suffice.
Not compatible with the older version of the version switcher by fearedbliss. And lack of self mp (tcp/ip)...speaking of which-
Sounds like a theme you could propose for an mp group
id be interested
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I have some old PCs that can't run D2R. I like the idea of playing D2 on those. Also Offline D2R still requires you go to online once every 30 days. LoD is a desert island game, D2R isn't.
Since D2R has come out I've been very addicted and had a great time, I've also found many things I never found in 2 decades of on and off LoD. In the past year I haven't played any D2 in any game.
LoD/Classic lets you do any version. D2R you always play the most recent.
Since D2R came out, I've never fired up LoD 1.14 or any previous patch as my "main game". I haven't moved characters or items and think the urge to go back will come one day .. its not there yet.
The updated visuals are very cool. I know for some the original graphics are jarring and they can't go back. Thats not a problem for me.
I'm very glad they made D2R and put in the effort they did. I'm glad they did the QoL things everyone has mentioned above. I'm glad things previously bnet only are finally here for us.
I'm glad I still have the option to resume my decades long on/off passion project.
I'm so glad they didn't do any Diablo Immortal/Diablo 4 economy/live service stuff!
Since D2R has come out I've been very addicted and had a great time, I've also found many things I never found in 2 decades of on and off LoD. In the past year I haven't played any D2 in any game.
LoD/Classic lets you do any version. D2R you always play the most recent.
Since D2R came out, I've never fired up LoD 1.14 or any previous patch as my "main game". I haven't moved characters or items and think the urge to go back will come one day .. its not there yet.
The updated visuals are very cool. I know for some the original graphics are jarring and they can't go back. Thats not a problem for me.
I'm very glad they made D2R and put in the effort they did. I'm glad they did the QoL things everyone has mentioned above. I'm glad things previously bnet only are finally here for us.
I'm glad I still have the option to resume my decades long on/off passion project.
I'm so glad they didn't do any Diablo Immortal/Diablo 4 economy/live service stuff!
Yes i also meant this when i mentioned lack of time travel. I.e. you cant go back and play 2.1, 2.2 or anything besides the most recent patch.
There's something about playing in a closed off system where you know rules of the game and they can't change at a whim of someone. I've been burned by live services games one time too many. Even if I'm not playing d2 anymore and just fire it off here and there, I'm sure that LoD > D2R for me.
From everything that I heard D2R seems like good addition to D2 that many people are having fun with, certainly better than what WC3 and blizz reimaginings got, but it's just not a game for me. Happy that some are enjoying the ride.
From everything that I heard D2R seems like good addition to D2 that many people are having fun with, certainly better than what WC3 and blizz reimaginings got, but it's just not a game for me. Happy that some are enjoying the ride.
One thing I'm very glad about D2R, most of these changes can be toggled. Perhaps the new QoL is toggled on, but they know and respect that some want to play how it was originally made, eg manually click each gold pile. If that is your thing, you can keep it. I respect their respect for choice
