City Mafia Game Thread

[Bad Ash]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Unvote: Pyrotechnician

Believe he fully explained himself. It's easy to feel trapped when getting double teamed by a couple of vets. I know I felt trapped when trying to explain myself when I've got into situations like this. And it always seems like a steep road to climb when a couple people are convinced you're scum and are adamant about it...

Imo I think BA tossed vanilla scum asrrin under the bus to gain massive town points. I know I did in the NCIS game, even locked a scum partner, but I made it to the end (godfather iirc), still lost the game though. Just want y'all to think about that as well.

Although, I cannot really think of anything else scummy about BA except for maybe hounding pyro for 2 days, but there are a couple others who did also (gory is the only one I can remember, and if I remember right, that was mainly just questions. Pretty intense questions, but questions nonetheless)

A. I have barely hounded pyro at all. I provided the information I had, explained my reasoning, and stuck to it. Have asked him very little questions compared to others.

B. You realize that both Pyro and I could be pro-town correct? You've been suspicious to me this day phase as well. You quickly defend Pyro's choice of the hider, then I think you realized it came off as such and voted for him, and now unvote him and try to finger me and turn the tables. Interesting.

If we are to go after one other person today its obvious who it should be: Flubbucket. Quick, while I am still eager to throw another one of my scum teammates under the bus.

My opinion on pyro is still not changed though. And as previously stated I think it is worth the lynch solely on role thief at this point, but I still believe him to be anti-town.

 

[coju]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

A. I have barely hounded pyro at all. I provided the information I had, explained my reasoning, and stuck to it. Have asked him very little questions compared to others.

B. You realize that both Pyro and I could be pro-town correct? You've been suspicious to me this day phase as well. You quickly defend Pyro's choice of the hider, then I think you realized it came off as such and voted for him, and now unvote him and try to finger me and turn the tables. Interesting.

If we are to go after one other person today its obvious who it should be: Flubbucket. Quick, while I am still eager to throw another one of my scum teammates under the bus.

My opinion on pyro is still not changed though. And as previously stated I think it is worth the lynch solely on role thief at this point, but I still believe him to be anti-town.

Yes, I realize both of you can be town... One of y'all could still be scum also.

Defending his choice on choosing the commuter role... Hmmm... I guess I sort of did defend him. Didn't realize I was, as I was simply giving my reasoning behind why one would choose the role. He then have almost the same answer and iirc I voted for him then.

I unvoted him because of reasons I gave in the post you quoted and because I believe his defense on the matter.

Lol at throwing another scum buddy under the bus... Guess that makes you a towny then, huh?

What's the reason behind a flip lynch? I've seen it mentioned, and if I must I will tread back through the thread on my phone, as my lappy is broke.

 

[Goryani]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Rule 11 was updated in post #1.

Pyro's sealed this deal. I didn't role cop you. I stole your role. Theres a difference and it seems you keep forgetting that.

The biggest red flag is the "I cant perform actions on an away night". You try to cover this up by saying it was what you read online. Yikes. The only night action you could have that isn't a part of your role is, well, a night kill.

I take it there is no clause similar to "You may not perform a mafia night kill while hiding" contained within the hider role description.

The role steal pm essentially said that I no longer had my original role, and that I could chose a person the next night phase and would take that role, they would then be the role thief.

@BA - Please clarify your 50% comment in #268.

The only thing I actually agree with you is that yes, it is in fact a big distraction for the town, and I seem to be the subject for a lot of them, so maybe it is best that I be removed from the game so that I can no longer be a distraction. Remind me next time to ask for a full readout of every role available from the mod so I don't run into this again, and I'm sorry that there is a website available with a full listing of roles and abilities. Listing out who I would target won't really do me much good as this specific topic has been the subject for most of the day phase, as apparently I don't have any credibility.

Now now. I think you are getting into trouble by speculating and assuming. If you don't see something in the role description or from questions answered by the mod, then assume it isn't part of the role. The specifics of the role ALWAYS trump what appears on mafiascum. There WILL be differences between our games and the wiki. Two different mods can have two different takes on a role. A mod can have two different takes on the same role in the same game.

Good luck on getting the full readout of every role available. This is the first game I remember where we are given a comprehensive list of role names. Even with that, we won't be given descriptions for any role other than the one we have. Such info is borderline cheating and takes most of the fun out of the game.

Personally, I think you are townie. I've had that opinion ever since post #314 but you sure like to have

You're inexperienced but learning. Some of the assumptions you have about roles are off just enough I have a hard time believing you have been night talking with mafia. If you were mafia, I don't think you would pass up a chance to ask questions from fellow mafia and I don't think they would give you the answers needed for you to think what you think about certain roles.

I shan't be voting for you today.

Its always an option, you can edit your posts

Not funny. Not funny at all.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Although, I cannot really think of anything else scummy about BA except for maybe hounding pyro for 2 days, but there are a couple others who did also (gory is the only one I can remember, and if I remember right, that was mainly just questions. Pretty intense questions, but questions nonetheless)

You seem to be mistaken on both counts. BA really said nothing about Pyro for the first two days, focused mainly on asrrin. I was the one who was pressuring him day 1, although Gory did ask a few questions.

Lastly: Don't take offense...its hard to read tones on forums, and again, its never as personal as it seems

To Pyro: I completely agree with this. I am trying to figure out if you are mafia, not to make you not enjoy the game or make you mad, hope it has not come off that way. I remember you mentioning that you have answered the questions, which I must admit has made me significantly less sure about you being mafia. If you had dodged them I would have probably voted for you both yesterday and today as well as soon as you seemed to dodge them.

Its always an option, you can edit your posts, but I would not choose to do so.

Completely disagree. Please don't as town or mafia. I greatly dislike mod kills.


Also, forgot to quote coju: flip yesterday came at 6 or 7 votes on Asrrin and voted for Val. He then switched to Asrrin only after being questioned on his choice, and made a comment about not needing a brain. Definitely my second choice for the day and has so far not answered that question.

 

[Gambor]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Goryani, have you considered that your role-thief plan involves the same drawbacks as the town-rolecop vs. the mafia-rolecop? If so, do you feel that the information going to the entire town shifts the balance enough to outweigh the downsides, or are there other considerations you are taking into account? Also, as what you are suggesting there could be described as a claim-generator, what is the main difference you see between that and mass-claiming, which you were against earlier?

Pyro, do you have any main suspects for who might be mafia?

 

[Goryani]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Roleclaim time:
I'm the tracker. N1 I tracked Ankeli but Ankeli didn't target anyone. N2 I tracked Noodle the voteless but Noodle didn't target anyone. I'm confident I can tell if I'm roleblocked. I wasn't rolebloked either night.

Goryani, have you considered that your role-thief plan involves the same drawbacks as the town-rolecop vs. the mafia-rolecop?

Yes, I've considered it. Being targeted by a mafia role-thief is less dangerous to the town than being targeted by a mafia role-cop. Players can't detect if they were targeted by a rolecop and won't know if the rolecop is lying to the town. In other words, townies with an important role won't know if a mafia rolecop put them in danger of being night killed the following night.

If so, do you feel that the information going to the entire town shifts the balance enough to outweigh the downsides,

Yes.

are there other considerations you are taking into account?

The data point of knowing who each role-thief targets is an extra bonus, but not worth it without the open info.

Also, as what you are suggesting there could be described as a claim-generator, what is the main difference you see between that and mass-claiming, which you were against earlier?

I wasn't against mass claiming earlier. On the contrary, I questioned those who said mass claiming was useless or a bad idea. I think mass claims should happen and I think it should happen within a couple of days.

But to answer your question, there are some differences.

Mass claiming requires everyone to claim the same day (hopefully) while claims through pass-the-role-thief will take a while before all players make a claim. Which one is better depends on the roles of mafia versus the roles of townies.

 

[coju]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Thanks for clearing that up and the flip info gwaihir

 

[Gambor]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

I wasn't against mass claiming earlier. On the contrary, I questioned those who said mass claiming was useless or a bad idea. I think mass claims should happen and I think it should happen within a couple of days.

Looking back, that's my bad. Sorry about that.

Personally, I think you are townie. I've had that opinion ever since post #314 but you sure like to have

Looks like something got cut off here, what did you mean to say?

 

[flubbucket1]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Sorry for being out of pocket. We had a broken water main at my building and I’ve spent the last 18 hours getting emergency water connected to my equipment. Who cares right??
I must say I’m sorry to lose Sathoris. Also I was quite wrong about the SK and the whole “feelings†notion put forth by BadAsh, Sathoris and others. The only reason I say these things is because I had to google what a jail keeper was. I never have read the wiki like it appears Pyro and some of you have. So I’m not even remotely familiar with these roles. I get my PM and go with that. So when I ask questions, such as why is the ninja a bad choice, it is to learn. I also asked about “bad Asrrin†as well if you all remember correctly, because I wasn’t familiar with this aspect. I never defended him, not one iota.

I stated early on I wasn't even remotely familiar with this "odd Asrrin" everyone was referring to. Just so you know I'm not really confident making a somewhat "sheeple" vote. And I felt this one was somewhat based on people's "feeling" about his behaviour.

That's all I'll say and it isn't a complaint at all, more of a personal pet peeve.

We have a lynch, therefore we have (or will have) information.

When I read Valhauros’ post and I saw something and wanted to point it out. Sathoris pointed out the time was ticking away and I changed my vote. However you want to spin that is up to you. The facts were I voted for Asrrin.

You seem to be mistaken on both counts. BA really said nothing about Pyro for the first two days, focused mainly on asrrin. I was the one who was pressuring him day 1, although Gory did ask a few questions.




To Pyro: I completely agree with this. I am trying to figure out if you are mafia, not to make you not enjoy the game or make you mad, hope it has not come off that way. I remember you mentioning that you have answered the questions, which I must admit has made me significantly less sure about you being mafia. If you had dodged them I would have probably voted for you both yesterday and today as well as soon as you seemed to dodge them.



Completely disagree. Please don't as town or mafia. I greatly dislike mod kills.


Also, forgot to quote coju: flip yesterday came at 6 or 7 votes on Asrrin and voted for Val. He then switched to Asrrin only after being questioned on his choice, and made a comment about not needing a brain. Definitely my second choice for the day and has so far not answered that question.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Current vote count:

Pyrotechnician (4): Bad Ash; FredofErik; ThunderCat; RlyehExiled
flubbucket (1): Ankeli

Day ends in 13 hours, 10 minutes.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

It was a long day yesterday and this game has proven to be more difficult then I thought it would be. Overall, I was getting frustrated with BA's two line counter arguements, just picking out specific lines that benefited his cause. I was never considering a mod kill as I essentially see that as quiting when a game isn't going your way, but if it is more beneficial to the town I was recommending that the lynch be secured so that the town can move on for the rest of the day phase. I don't want people to feel like BA has been hounding me on continouos days because that is an unfair assumption. Gwaihir took the lead on that on day 1. The only person that pushed a subject day 2 was Gambor, and day 3 BA used his role thief ability which started this debacle. BA presented the reasoning for his arguement and vote, Goryani has presented me with a list of questions as long as a football field, and each response BA would pick something out that worked with his arguement and essentially ignored the rest. I don't mind the questions though as they help provide some explanations so Goryani is ok with me. There has not been a day phase which did not include some speculation on my alignment which made it seem that the best idea would be for me to be removed from play through lynching so that the town wouldn't waste anymore time and, would also remove the role thief role which some of you are concerned about.

With all that being said, I don't want anyone to "feel badly" about lynching me, I understand that this is all an integral part of the game and if it didn't happen the game wouldn't progress, so I'm not going to give up just yet until I can prove my alignment or help the town in some way. So heres my list of things I don't like (Don't worry BA, even though you started this your not on my list :crazyeyes and I think they are in order of scumminess to me.

FredofEric - He didn't vote for Asriin (yes I realize I didn't either, but I actually had a reason) and was eager to jump on lynching me without much contest even after I said I would explain myself.

Valhauros - Asking if the mafia has a night kill ability in post 233, and then when flubbbucket went to vote for him part of his defesne was because "I'm aligned with town" in post 251. I obviously appreciate him lowering the heat on locking a lynch on me today, but he only followed up with that because someone mentioned it and locking me without a defense arguement would be scum tastic.

flubbucket - His reasoning for voting Valhauros was shakey at best other than citing val's lynch all liars post in the middle of the asriin debate, I can see where he wouldn't vote by not being sure about it because in all actuallity, I didn't really know Asriin was acting odd either, but I guess that goes to my inexperience. Mentioning his sheepish vote process when he switched was not convincing.

Noodle - Minimal contribution, no vote history, and hasn't really spurred any discussions. I'm not sure if this is his playstyle, but it definately isn't helping anyone.

Laarz - His contribution has been meager at best, I understand he had a family situation but from what it seems he should be back and has yet to make a post this day phase, however he did vote for Asrrin yesterday so I'm not so sure on this choice.

ThunderCat - He voted on Asriin withough question, but he has been really lurkey which just says dangerous all over it. Otherwise I don't see anything else on him at the moment.

coju - Only because he dropped a vote on me citing my "defense" post, hes removed the vote now but I think it was more that he felt bad for me then he wanted to.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

And with that...

Vote: FredofErik

 

[FredOfErik]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

FredofEric - He didn't vote for Asriin (yes I realize I didn't either, but I actually had a reason) and was eager to jump on lynching me without much contest even after I said I would explain myself.

That you vote for me because of me wanting to lynch you I can live with. Side note: I still want to.

But the other part (that I have no reason) is blatantly wrong. I was in Denmark visiting friends and family (I moved here to Germany last summer). I apologized here in this thread before the whole asrrin business, telling I wasn't sure I would be around. In my first post this dayphase, I once again apologized and gave my reasons. I even PM'd CG about it in the beginning of the game and also told you and the 3 others (in the KMT thread - hasn't got anything to do with this game) that I wouldn't be around most of the weekend.

Yes, it is an RL-reason, which is sorta lame - even though I told you all about it several times. However, I do not think it would ever classify as a reason to find me scummy.

For reference:

Before asrrin lynch:

Verry sorry guys. RL busy. I'm in Denmark to see my family and friends over the weekend and won't have much time for the rest of this day phase either. However, monday I'm back at work and I'll have much more forum time. Hopefully (almost certainly) I will get time to read some posts and vote/etc later towards the end of the day.

After asrrin lynch:

Hi, everybody. I'm truly sorry about my absence. However, now I'm back for good.

@asrrin yesterday: I obviously didn't vote for him, as I wasn't online. I'm still not too sure I would've actually voted for him. I didn't like the whole "you are note asrrin, you are weird"-thing, but maybe that's because he didn't seem to act a lot different to me. Obvously I haven't played as much with him as some of you guys, so ye.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Wow, well doesn't that make me look like a complete ***, I knew there were other players that had not voted for Asriin yesterday, so when I was gathering up my arguements I was looking at final vote counts and was trying to think of posts related to reasoning but didn't recall it at the time I was making my write up. You are obviously right that RL obligations shouldn't make anyone scummy and I'm sorry for that. I really need to watch for making stupid mistakes which is winding me up in this position in the first place.

Unvote: FredofErik
Vote: Valhauros

 

[ThunderCat]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Don't have to be concerned about him anymore, but I actually think him to be town.

As for the other question, I'd love to vote for flub, FoE or TC. Preferrably in that order.

Care to give reasons? Preferably other than your Ankeli-dar.

I'm actually gonna go with my gut over peer pressure.

Vote: flubbucket

I don't like the Pyro lynch, as the only reason I can justify for it is to get rid of the role he has. If he has to be lynched, it'd be better to do it tomorrow. We can get some good out of the nasty role he has if he uses it overnight and tells us who he used it on tomorrow.

Again you jump to his defense. One would say you're both in the same team.

Time for my claim.
I stole Bad Ash's role on night 1. Bad Ash was not my first target, but apparently someone else had a say in that. Anyway, I am now the role-cop.

Last night, I decided that the main objective of the role-cop in a game like this, is to hunt for the serial killer. As a plain role from anyone else will not give the town much information. Thus, I went after Ankeli. He was pretty high up the list and perfectly capable of choosing and attempting a win as a SK. I'm pretty sure most of you can agree to that.

The result I received was that my investigation was blocked due to an unknown reason. Now unless a bus driver or a role blocker had anything to do with my investigation, I can conclude that Ankeli is the godfather.

I planed on keeping quiet this day phase and investigating him yet again the following night. But with the information Bad Ash brought up and seeing how Ankeli is defending Pyro, coupled with the fact that he didn't vote for Asrrin, I'm willing to follow my read and say that Ankeli is anti town. Lynching Pyro would give us more information than just Bad Ash's alignment.

The only thing I actually agree with you is that yes, it is in fact a big distraction for the town, and I seem to be the subject for a lot of them, so maybe it is best that I be removed from the game so that I can no longer be a distraction. Remind me next time to ask for a full readout of every role available from the mod so I don't run into this again, and I'm sorry that there is a website available with a full listing of roles and abilities. Listing out who I would target won't really do me much good as this specific topic has been the subject for most of the day phase, as apparently I don't have any credibility.

If you're townie, giving up isn't really a townie move. A true townie would try to find a better target and do scum hunting rather than just defend himself the entire day phase.

(regarding Bad Ash's modkilling comment)
Not funny. Not funny at all.

Agreed. And if I may be a little bit off topic here. I consider such an act as deserting, hence anyone caught doing such a thing in any game will be banned from playing in any of my games. Don't be a sore looser and die like man.

Roleclaim time:
I'm the tracker. N1 I tracked Ankeli but Ankeli didn't target anyone. N2 I tracked Noodle the voteless but Noodle didn't target anyone. I'm confident I can tell if I'm roleblocked. I wasn't rolebloked either night.

I'm sorry, but how does your claim help the town? Was that information that dire than you needed to out yourself now?

Pyro, I like you. I think you'll make a great addition to our mafia player base. However, I can't really shake the feeling that your posts are somehow directed by someone else in the background. That, coupled with Bad Ash's statements, the read on Ankeli (or better yet, lack of) and him defending you aren't really helping your case. In my opinion you need to be lynched today so we can gain some much needed information.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was going to resort to a mod kill in that statement but as I clarified later that if it would overall help the town then securing the lynch on me would be the best option. I will be sure to do my best for the rest of the day phase today, and I'm pretty sure that my lynch would in fact provide you with some of the information that you are looking for.

 

[Goryani]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Time for my claim.
I stole Bad Ash's role on night 1. Bad Ash was not my first target, but apparently someone else had a say in that. Anyway, I am now the role-cop.

Hold it hold it hold it. You were the role thief?

Vote: Laarz

If I would have had first pick,it would have been role thief, as I had better luck playing it than cop and doc in previous games

BA,I see that Asrrin picked after you did, do you think he is just a VT or that he managed to get a pick?

The first quote could be a breadcrumb or could be a personal thought with no relevance to the game. The second quote, however, is what a role-thief-turned-role-cop would subtly ask of the previous role cop during interrogation/debate.

Now look at the d1 votes. "Lynch a lurker" is one of the safest ways for mafia to get a townie lynched without drawing suspicion. I'm shocked a townie-Laarz wasn't lynched. But mafia-Laarz is a different story. Mafia not wanting to vote a lurking fellow mafia doesn't draw much suspicion either. Cannibalism isn't required in that situation because there are so many ways to justify not voting for the lurker.

Now look at the players who voted Laarz. Two are dead and another almost got strung up today. The mafia-Laarz scenario becomes more realistic.

The result I received was that my investigation was blocked due to an unknown reason. Now unless a bus driver or a role blocker had anything to do with my investigation, I can conclude that Ankeli is the godfather.

This doesn't sound like the cause-effect of a godfather to me.

I'm sorry, but how does your claim help the town? Was that information that dire than you needed to out yourself now?

The odds of me surviving to see D4 has been low as of late. I'd love to have dire information to report to the town, but I'm skating on thin ice so I'll report the information while I'm still skating.

Looks like something got cut off here, what did you mean to say?

That's a really good question and I don't know the answer anymore. "You don't like to make it easy" represents what I feel about it, but that doesn't really fit the words I typed.

 

[flubbucket1]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

I’m using my short lunch break to feverishly read all the posts. I think Pyro makes a good case. However, in the one game where I was actually mafia I spent a great deal of time defending myself when questioned. I believe someone stated the job of the town is to scum hunt. I’m not accusing you I’m stating the focus of the town.

Also to those who actually got the roles they bid for, I’m not really sure it’s such a great idea to have all of this role revealing going on now. With the role thief in play it seems dangerous to me.

Since I’m not sure when I’m going to be able to get back I’m going to get my vote in now. Nothing personal Pyro, lynches = information. Hopefully I will be able to get back on and change if a more viable lynch happens.

Vote: Pyrotechnician

 

[Valhauros]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

Gwaihir's "Val, why did you vote for someone who had no votes at all that close to the end of the day?":
Like I wrote in my post #233, I will not vote for someone that I don't believe to be mafia. I agree that Asrrin seemed entangled with his own posts, but I thought he was just being cautious due to this game's default nature. I still believe Flub is not much of a townie, though, so unless there is a much better candidate, I'll be voting for him.

Gwaihir's "Do you actually think L-2 was that much of a dangerous spot? What were you worried about happening?":
All it takes is a clueless player, and a mafia pretending to be one.

Pyrotechnician's "He only followed up with that because... locking me without a defense would be scum tastic":
Not really. If the day had been close to an end, and you still had not written a reply, I would have locked you anyway. Fortunately for you, you made a very solid defense, and, usually, the "believe in me or I'll virtually suicide to prove I'm right" is a product of the newcomer townie's frustration. I know it because I did the same thing the first time I played. Still, you're a backstabber, and I'll get my revenge on a following game.

Flubbucket's "I read Valhauros’ post and I saw something and wanted to point it out":
You forgot to add that you edited my quote so that it would seem that I was contradicting myself (which I never did). And now, despite his heroic defense, you still want to go after Pyrotechnician, despite Laarz being a considerably better choice? I believe there is enough proof in your posts to come to the conclusion that your demeanor is sly, and that the town's "focus" is not in your interests. Time for your city to go boom...

Vote: Flubbucket.

 

[ThunderCat]

Re: City Mafia Game Thread

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was going to resort to a mod kill in that statement but as I clarified later that if it would overall help the town then securing the lynch on me would be the best option. I will be sure to do my best for the rest of the day phase today, and I'm pretty sure that my lynch would in fact provide you with some of the information that you are looking for.

That was addressed to Bad Ash mostly, and as a warning to everyone else. You did nothing wrong, so calm down.

Hold it hold it hold it. You were the role thief?

Indeed.

This doesn't sound like the cause-effect of a godfather to me.

Like I said, unless a blocker or bus driver had anything to do with this, godfather seems to be the only plausible option. The godfather is explained as immune to cop investigation. Being that we only have a role-cop and not any other flavor, what other result would I receive?