A Lack of Information (A S/U Worshipper Tournament)

waaaaaaaaaaa The_Kid is dead, level 38, in the Pits of Archeon (or whatever the spelling is), in an easy fight due to my not paying attention. So rabies was killing everything it touched, so I got in the habit of just biting and then not really paying much attention to what was going on (unless against a bosspack), as the rabies killed everything and I had a lot of life in werewolf form. So I was at a bridge biting a group of maybe 3-4 frenzytaurs and also half-way paying attention to something away from the computer, and then I noticed they had surrounded me, and my life bulb was depleting rapidly, and I didn't have any rejuvs... chugged all my reds but they killed me before I could escape. Oh well! At least he died before rabies started being not so awesome.

I'm going to re-enter the tournament... trying to decide what character...

EDIT: Taking suggestions on a new character! I'm pretty much open to anything that isn't a zealot, hammerdin, trapsin, or skelliemancer. What I like are characters that are fun from normal to hell. What I hate are characters that are super tedious in normal.
 
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EDIT: Taking suggestions on a new character! I'm pretty much open to anything that isn't a zealot, hammerdin, trapsin, or skelliemancer. What I like are characters that are fun from normal to hell. What I hate are characters that are super tedious in normal.

Phoenix Striker. Pb_pal's first character needs to be avenged!
Tip: If you find too many S/U weapons before PS is about level 5, you can use Fists of Fire without a weapon.

Also:
1. Hit Esc whenever you want to pay attention to something else.
2. No rejuves should NOT be possible in Normal. Keep at least two columns in belt.
3. Always respect Frenzytaurs, even in Normal.
 
I have to second jiansonz's suggestion there. I tried my first Phoenix Striker as my last character in this tournament, and it was easily one of the most, if not THE most entertaining build I've played. Super versatile, and amazing crowd control with Mind Blast and CoS. I will try one again some day for sure.

Karna made it to Act V NM before biting the big one, and not once did I feel that she was tedious. FoF destroys the early game, and PS picks up quite handily in late normal once it gets some points in it.

EDIT: Also, sorry to hear about the deeds! Good luck on the next one, whatever you choose. :)
 
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@JudgeHolden - Sorry about the deeds, may The_Kid R.I.P. As the other's mentioned PS-sin would be a very active, fun build, however with the limited gear selection you will definitely be challenged that's for sure! Whatever you chose try not to select a build like I did that relies on very specific pieces of gear, or you will be pulling your hair out waiting for it to finally drop and it might never happen. For example, I held off this time around developing any bow skills till I found a S/U bow and then once one dropped then I found another lesser one right afterwards. :rolleyes: When it rains it pours so to speak. Good luck with your next choice and enjoy!
 
Phoenix Striker... sounds cool! Maybe I'll try that, or some kind of sorceress is also on my mind.

I actually had tons of rejuvs... in my stash! I figured I wouldn't need them in normal.... oops! With the lame 2-row arctic belt I had 2 columns of blues and 2 columns of reds... only put in rejuvs for act bosses.
 
Beren, the FoH/Holy Shock/merc helper Paladin has made it through the jungle in Nightmare. His buddy Yrmenlaf isn't powerful (upped Soulflay and Hwanin's Refuge) but the IK helm's large MF is too good to pass up, so we move on slowly. Yrmenlaf does not get all the kills, but most, including all bosses. He was better against the small enemies in this act (all fetishes, Cloud Stalkers) than against many monster types in Act II.

Aura changes around quite a bit, from the default Might, to Defiance if Yrmenlaf gets mobbed, to Cleansing between fights if he got poisoned and to Redemption against flayer shamans. Then Holy Shock whenever Beren wants to get his axe (upped Axe of Fechmar) dirty and Conviction if he lays down the (so far, rare) FoH blasts.

Cool spider fight:
BerenNM14%20Spiders_zpse0weu4u9.jpg


Only two can attack us. One is frozen and the other one is stunned. Just the way we like it.

Sszark came to play:
BerenNM15%20Sszark_zpshjksif9r.jpg


A Stone Skin Gloam boss provided some trouble. Merc did very little damage to it (especially when chilled), and Holy Shock axe-ing would not be good either. Beren's AR is bad as it is - he would whiff a lot against a Stone Skin boss. Plus the boss has large resistance anyway. Ah, but that resistance (and the Defense!) can be nerfed:
BerenNM16%20Moon%20Hawk_zpsie8yodae.jpg

Conviction is still only level 1+2 (Sigon's Guard and Tarnhelm) but it clearly made a difference here.
I kept the Conviction up and whipped (using Maelstrom) the boss with normal Attack so my poison charm took effect and Yrmenlaf could get the kill.

I've found several nice resist charms lately. Those have been really scarce in the early game. There´s still at least 3 inventory squares left for more (and I'll probably make room later for a few more by removing some mediocre +life charms).

S/U finds in the jungle:
Hsaru's Iron Heel
Angelic Wings
(Very nice! I have the ring also, which makes for some nice bonuses but I would get too low fire resist if were to remove Nokozan Relic at this point)
Isenhart's Case
Venom Ward
Skystrike
(Sweet! A much better bow than Wizendraw for Beren (or for a bow merc))


[Highlight]Beren the FoH Paladin and Yrmenlaf the Barbarian, level 61, NM Lower Kurast next[/Highlight]
 
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My paladin's legs were getting to tired, so he took a few weeks off and relaxed in the outer cloister. With his renewed vigor he was ready to conquer the monastery. The rest must have done some good, because the rest of the act was a breeze.

Right out of the gate I got a fun PI beast. Took about 50 charges with my Aldur's to take him down, but it was good to see that it's still a reasonable option at least. Found a Lem in the barracks, which is nice. I could upgrade an armor, but I'll sit on it for a bit for a possible weapon upgrade (need 2xLem or Pul for that still). The smith went down pretty easy, although there were too many objects around to keep him in much of a charge chain.

Jail 1 gave me two PI boss goats. Neither were a problem at all though, as they were in jail. Both were killed by Fiona before opening the doors. I killed most of the minions through the bars with my maul.

The start to level 2 was a little tricky, with some tough bone archers. And then Pitspawn was dealt with much like the goats. The pillar gave me enough cover to be able to keep conviction up instead of salvation, and Fiona did all of the damage in this fight. Catacombs were all easy, nothing tough at all.

Right before Andy I found a Todesfaelle Flamme. It's an interesting one for sure, the enchant would help me greatly with 105% AR bonus and a 6 min duration. The problem is that I need 30 more dex. So not anything to do with it for now, but it may see use eventually.

I switched out bloodfist for death's gloves, added a few poison charms, and drank some antidotes and was ready for the Andy fight. It went pretty smooth, the merc died a couple times, but she wasn't really that necessary anyways. Just charge, run back, and charge again. I took breaks and ran around waiting for the healing potions to catch up when I needed to. Only got down below half life once I think. Drop was pretty useless. Both S/U items might have been useful a long time ago, but not now.

Finds:
Infernal Torch -Cata 1
Todesfaelle Flamme -Cata 4
Tancred's Armor -Andy
Humungous -Andy

Dauntless_Train, Paldadin, level 78, Act 2 Hell
 
Started a Phoenix Striker. Her name is Snoop, named after the fantastic, and presumably functionally illiterate, female assassin from the best TV show ever (by far), The Wire.

Since we're trying to avenge the death of Pb_pal's Karna, I'll keep the "no points in the trap tree" restriction.

Having never played a phoenix striker, or in fact any assassin that uses martial arts, I have a lot of questions. Sorry bout that:

1) So could anyone give me a rough idea of where I should be spending my skill points? I mean I know at least one point in everything in the shadow disciplines tree other than venom, and probably enough hard points in mind blast to get a good stun length, especially given that there are no guarantees that I'll be getting any +skills from items. Should I be spending any more hard points in the shadow disciplines tree (cloak of shadows, fade, shadow master)? And beyond phoenix strike, how do I spend my points in the martial arts tree?

2) How does phoenix strike work anyways? Is the idea that charge 1 gives me fire, charge 2 gives me lightning, and charge 3 gives me cold? OR is the idea that charge 1 gives me fire, charge 2 gives me fire+lightning, and charge 3 gives me fire+lightning+cold.

3) Am I using any "finishing moves" or just normal attack to release the charges?

4) Since its, to say the least, unlikely that I'll be getting dual S/U claws, what kind of weapon setup am I looking at? 1-handed + shield or 2-handed? Do I care about the physical damage component of my weapon?

5) What are my likely str and dex needs?​

Snoop is level 16 right now, just finished clearing the Black Marsh, including Countess and Hole. Been hoarding skill points until I get some guidance on how to spend them. Just putting one point in stuff I know I'll need for now. One point in fists-of-fire is toasting everything nicely, anyways. Only one S/U, so far, the Hsarus' Buckler, which is on switch.
 
Started a Phoenix Striker. Her name is Snoop, named after the fantastic, and presumably functionally illiterate, female assassin from the best TV show ever (by far), The Wire.

Since we're trying to avenge the death of Pb_pal's Karna, I'll keep the "no points in the trap tree" restriction.

Having never played a phoenix striker, or in fact any assassin that uses martial arts, I have a lot of questions. Sorry bout that:

1) So could anyone give me a rough idea of where I should be spending my skill points? I mean I know at least one point in everything in the shadow disciplines tree other than venom, and probably enough hard points in mind blast to get a good stun length, especially given that there are no guarantees that I'll be getting any +skills from items. Should I be spending any more hard points in the shadow disciplines tree (cloak of shadows, fade, shadow master)? And beyond phoenix strike, how do I spend my points in the martial arts tree?

2) How does phoenix strike work anyways? Is the idea that charge 1 gives me fire, charge 2 gives me lightning, and charge 3 gives me cold? OR is the idea that charge 1 gives me fire, charge 2 gives me fire+lightning, and charge 3 gives me fire+lightning+cold.

3) Am I using any "finishing moves" or just normal attack to release the charges?

4) Since its, to say the least, unlikely that I'll be getting dual S/U claws, what kind of weapon setup am I looking at? 1-handed + shield or 2-handed? Do I care about the physical damage component of my weapon?

5) What are my likely str and dex needs?​

Snoop is level 16 right now, just finished clearing the Black Marsh, including Countess and Hole. Been hoarding skill points until I get some guidance on how to spend them. Just putting one point in stuff I know I'll need for now. One point in fists-of-fire is toasting everything nicely, anyways. Only one S/U, so far, the Hsarus' Buckler, which is on switch.
 
Started a Phoenix Striker.

:yep:

Since we're trying to avenge the death of Pb_pal's Karna, I'll keep the "no points in the trap tree" restriction.

Ooh, you're really making it tough for yourself. Blade Fury (4-point wonder to use against extremely dangerous bosses) and Death Sentry make the late game a lot easier.


So could anyone give me a rough idea of where I should be spending my skill points? I mean I know at least one point in everything in the shadow disciplines tree other than venom, and probably enough hard points in mind blast to get a good stun length, especially given that there are no guarantees that I'll be getting any +skills from items. Should I be spending any more hard points in the shadow disciplines tree (cloak of shadows, fade, shadow master)? And beyond phoenix strike, how do I spend my points in the martial arts tree?

For me, one point MB has always been sufficient. You spam it in dire situations, until merc/shadow/converted monster tanks, or you spam it to push a boss back into massive flames.

No extra points in Cloak of Shadows. You can't afford that, and it's even counterproductive at times (because you can't recast it until it has timed out).

Given the item situation in this tourney, being prepared to sink a few points into Fade is probably good. Watch the diminishing returns.

Some players like Shadow Master (she does a heck of a lot more damage) but I prefer the Shadow Warrior for HC play, because she is more predictible. And if you can get her to cast Fade, she is usually a better elemental tank than the Master. Since you won't use the traps tree, there are probably enough points for a decent level in your preferred Shadow.

MA tree skills is easy for me: Max PS and Claws of Thunder, about 10 in Fists of Fire, 1 in all kicks (for the utility of group knockback (DTail) and teleport to enemy (DFlight)).

2) How does phoenix strike work anyways? Is the idea that charge 1 gives me fire, charge 2 gives me lightning, and charge 3 gives me cold? OR is the idea that charge 1 gives me fire, charge 2 gives me fire+lightning, and charge 3 gives me fire+lightning+cold.

It's the former.

Charge 1 is your big boss killer, and main damage dealer vs tight mobs. For spamming it (it's the stacked flames from several Meteors that really ups the damage, especially against bulky enemies), I recommed holding down the mouse button on an enemy and toggle between PS and Attack hotkeys.
Charge 2 is your weapon against FI monsters, and against spread out enemies (think flayer blowdarters and such)
Charge 3 is crowd control. Freezes most monsters for a long time, even on Hell difficulty. Don't bother with the damage here.


3) Am I using any "finishing moves" or just normal attack to release the charges?

I mainly use Attack, mostly because it has the same speed as Phoenix Strike. Easier to get a rhythm going that way. I did this even with my dual claws PS Assassin.

4) Since its, to say the least, unlikely that I'll be getting dual S/U claws, what kind of weapon setup am I looking at? 1-handed + shield or 2-handed? Do I care about the physical damage component of my weapon?

Again, because of item restrictions, you'll probably need a shield or two, both for resists and blocking.

Physical damage (other than Crushing Blow) on the weapon matters little, but if you have any mana steal at all and is using a normal unique, it's probably worth upgrading it for better mana steal.

You will want your weapon to be fast and have a range of >1 (so you can hit enemies 'over the shoulder' of your tank(s)). Flails and War Axes have the longest range among one-handers.

5) What are my likely str and dex needs?

STR 75 for the easy-to-find Sigon's Guard is good goal. Let's you also use most decent and common other armor pieces and weapons. DEX: depending on shield and other gear, enough for 50% blocking is what I usually aim for.
 
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Excellent, thanks for the tips!

The reason I went with no traps is because I wanted the build to be *about* phoenix strike, not about killing one or two enemies with phoenix strike and then watching death sentry do its thing... kinda like how, if you use corpse explosion, every necro build amounts to "kill one or two enemies then explode everything".

I'm open to blade fury... death sentry is the main one I wanted to avoid.
 
@JudgeHolden - Awesome, Karna would be proud :) Looks like jiansonz covered your questions quite well (he is the expert on PS sins, after all!), so I won't go into that other than to say spend the points to get Blade Fury. Assassins can be quite fragile, so for later game having a dependable ranged attack is a huge bonus. Karna did not regret the decision to skip DS, but she had multiple instances where she REALLY wished she had BF.

Oh, I also want to echo jiansonz's statement about Shadow Warrior vs Master. I was extremely happy I went with the Warrior, having control over what skillls she uses is a huge bonus in HC, especially when you're going to be in melee range for the vast majority of the time.

Good luck!

@kestegs - Glad to see the Train is still doing well, good luck in Act 2!

--

I will be away this weekend, so I probably won't have a super reliable internet connection. Miasma has progressed, but not enough for an update just yet. Expect one early next week! For now, I will just drop an updated table in here, to get Snoop officially into the mix. :)



Code:
The Proven (Guardians):
Forum Name      Class        Char Name        LVL    ACT      Area
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Azimuthus       Amazon       Furiosa          83     --       Game Complete

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Table of Heroes:
Forum Name      Class        Char Name        LVL    ACT      Area
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kestegs         Paladin      Dauntless_Train  78     A2(H)    Lut Gholein
Southpaw8668    Amazon       Witchie          65     A4(NM)   Pandemonium Fortress
jiansonz        Paladin      Beren            61     A3(NM)   Lower Kurast
Pb_pal          Necromancer  Miasma           60     A3(NM)   Kurast Docks
EasyG           Barbarian    Ignorant         ??     A3(NM)   Kurast Docks
Naturallog      Sorceress    Permafrost       53     A2(NM)   Lut Gholein
Dazliare        Necromancer  Covenant         28     A2       False Tombs
Virtue          Assassin     ThisWontEndWell  26     A3       Kurast Docks
srrw            Sorceress    Zoey             25     A2       Palace
SunsetVista     Assassin     Kalandra         23     A2       Far Oasis
U.i.n.i.u       Necromancer  SetUnique        ??     A2       Lut Gholein
Lord Molybdenum Paladin      Zarquich         17     A1       Outer Cloister
JudgeHolden     Assassin     Snoop            16     A1       Tamoe Highland
Bry             Necromancer  BoneCut          15     A1       Black Marsh
Jocular         Paladin      Grok             12     A1       Stony Field

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fallen (RIP):
Forum Name      Class        Char Name        LVL    ACT       Area
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Southpaw8668    Necromancer  Mithik           80     A3(H)     Spider Forest
Pb_pal          Assassin     Karna            67     A5(NM)    Abaddon
Azimuthus       Necromancer  BoneVoyage       62     A3(NM)    Upper Kurast
Southpaw8668    Paladin      Wolfswift        51     A1(NM)    Cathedral
JudgeHolden     Druid        The_Kid          38     A5        Pit of Acheron
ranagrande      Druid        Orbin            34     A4        Diablo
Jcakes          Paladin      Ares             ??     A4        Diablo
Bry             Sorceress    ScruffMcBuff     31     A4        Plains of Despair
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Hi everyone, Snoop is level 25, Just finished the Lost City, headed for the Claw Viper Temple. Andarial was really easy. I had found crushflange, so I used that with cobra strike which kept my health and mana pretty much totally full while she wacked away at me, and the crushing blow took her down quick.

I have a cathan ring, hsarus belt (wooo 3 rows!), hsarus sheild, and 2 unique weapons (crushflange, deathspade). Currently using a act 2 blessed aim merc.

One point of confusion that I was hoping to clear up. Above, jiansonz had mentioned using fist of fire while weaponless in case I get a bunch of s/u weapons before getting phoenix strike. So for a decent chunk of act 2, I had been going weaponless even though I can equip both crushflange and deathspade. Then it occured to me last night that doing so might be against the rules. So looking at the rules now, it seems that since I *can* equip both unique weapons (and my merc can't equip either), then I must equip them both. Do I have that right? If so, apologies for going through part of act 2 in violation of the rules... I can restart if need be but I'd rather not put myself through boring act 1 again if possible. Using FoF weaponless certainly improved my kill speed, but cobra strike and/or tiger strike would have easily taken out any enemies I've encountered so far so I don't feel like I've gotten a huge advantage.
 
@JudgeHolden - you are correct in stating that you must equip as many S/U items as possible and then equip your mercenary if possible. If wrong weapons type then they must go weaponless. I vote continue on, it couldn't have been too much of an advantage up to this point but the call is the host's to make. [emoji2] Glad you're having fun with the build.
 
Okay, for now I'll use deathspade and crushflange... not terrible weapons anyways at this point. Tiger strike and cobra strike until I get phoenix strike going.

Pb_pal, let me know if I should restart! To be more exact, I cleared part of the maggot lair, part of the far oasis, the lost city, and the ancient tunnels using FoF without a weapon.
 
As Southpaw pointed out, I added in that pesky word "must", in the first clause under rule 16. This means that once you find a suitable S/U it has to be used, assuming it can be physically equipped. So technically, if you find another S/U weapon that you cannot equip due to stat reqs, you can designate that to your weapon slot and go weaponless.

Either way, it was such a minor part of an early act, so there was no significant advantage gained. No need to restart. Continue on, and good luck. :)
 
Yeah, you had only two weapons, which meant you could use any white/grey weapon for a merc (apart from socketed jewels) so your progress was never in doubt.

Also, sorry for misleading you. I must have mixed up the rules with some other tournament.
 
Cool, thanks everyone! No need to apologize, jiansonz!

So from the viper temple onwards I switched to using tiger strike on LMB and keeping Fists of Fire on my right mouse button, so that my shadow warrior would use it. My merc was wrecking everything with a 3os polearm with an emerald, a ruby, and a skull. I got a crummy arcanna helm that went on the merc. Then, I found Gleamscythe in the canyon of the magi... my 3rd s/u weapon.. boo! So my merc had to go weaponless for the false tombs.

The first 3 false tombs were fairly tedious and occasionally dangerous now that the merc had such low damage. One point in particular we had a long fight against the room full of unravellers (including a champ pack) and beetles and burning dead... had to feed the merc almost all the full rejuvs I had made. Dragon flight to teleport to the unravellers was useful, but once doing that got me into trouble when I teleported into a giant mob... I followed jiansonz's suggestion of spamming MB, then I teleported to an enemy on the edge of the mob to allow me to back up. The tombs without unravellers were easy. Then I got razortine in the last false tomb... now my merc could do halfway-decent damage again.

Duriel was not so bad on /p3, cobra strike with crushflange for the crushing blow. I think the merc got one rejuv and the shadow warrior died once, but all else fine. He dropped a 2nd razortine, and a nagelring, which replaced one of my pair of cathan rings that had dropped earlier.

Cruising into act 3, I reach level 30 and start having access to phoenix strike, which made me think about needing mana steal. As if in response to this, the game is nice enough to drop a manald heal from one of those stone stashes lying around the jungle. No big mana issues now.. and if need be I can go back to using deathspade with the +4 mana/kill.

I'm almost level 31, cleared the flayer dungeon, just have to clear out the remainder of the flayer jungle then its onward from there.

Boots, gloves, amulet, switch shield, armor, helm, merc armor still have no S/Us.

Question that came up that I'll forget to ask later when it becomes imporant: In NM and Hell, how do ya'll recommend dealing with the exploding midget skeleton flayers in act 3? I'm worried about phoenix striking a mob of them and exploding myself.
 
Question that came up that I'll forget to ask later when it becomes imporant: In NM and Hell, how do ya'll recommend dealing with the exploding midget skeleton flayers in act 3? I'm worried about phoenix striking a mob of them and exploding myself.

That's simple, in theory. :)

Non-bosses: Cloak of Shadows so they stay put, release Meteor and back off during the time the Meteor is faliing.
(It's sometimes not easy to see exactly what's going on, but 'Meteor is coming' has a distinct sound - listen for that)

Bosses/Champs: same thing, but you need Shadow/merc to tank them first.
 
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