Zombies invade Atlantis. Stargate zombie Mafia game.

[Jcakes1]

It's very possible that Kestegs just had the misfortune of giving Pharphis an opening to make a play... but if Kestegs wasn't teamed with Pharphis, how do we explain the odd interaction they had where Pharphis pushed Kestegs to give a reason, and then Pharphis goes from a series of posts promising a reason that would convince us to vote AAA to then walking it back to "it was just a bluff to see how AAA and others would respond". The only reason I'm tentatively viewing Kestegs as tentatively zombie team is because of that interaction. It's possible I suppose that Pharphis was rubbing his zombie stink all over Kestegs knowing that someone would see a connection? I don't know that Kestegs can really say anything to convince us that he wasn't connected ... but going forward how he plays will probably help determine.

If kestegs is a scum partner of pharphis, then how do you explain his 10th vote in the closing minutes? The 10th vote that pushed pharphis into lynch territory.

Personally, I consider kestegs to be the most townie person right now, simply because of that. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a long bus play, but I consider it far more likely that kestegs is simply town.

In addition to what CG says above, the way I see it is as follows:

Basically what it felt like to me is:
1. Kegs makes a Sath vote play on Antswers
2. Phar sees the vote and votes as well
3. Phar claims he has evidence
4. Phar asks kegs why he voted
5. kegs refuses to anwer
6. Phar reveals "I got nothing"
7. Phar flips scum.

My thoughts are that Antswers and pharph are a team and that pharph decided to jerome his scum buddy when he saw the early vote from kegs. TGhe plan backfired when kegs wouldn't provide reasoning for pharph to follow on with.

This all assumes that Antswers is scum though.

 

[Goryani]

I'll wait a bit to see if anybody else notices it. I might be mistaken and reading too much into it. If the slip is there, then others will notice it as well.

I don't see what I'd call a slip. I disagree with several reads/reasons. I don't know why he was interested in the second voter to AAA (pharphis) but not the second voter to Drixx (Sathoris) or pharphis (Drixx). I don't know why he thinks doing the exact bare minimum to avoid a modkill (intentionally trying avoiding a modkill) makes one qualify as risking a modkill especially after the player in question intimates they were checking on the thread throughout D1 (but not posting...). I don't understand why he calls Noodle's posting unsubstantial when Numbers thanked Noodle for the explanation that kicked off the Noodle debate. I can't reconcile Numbers's words about AAA the lurker with Number's behavior toward AAA.

 

[Drixx]

You really think he'd pull a Jerome at the very start like that? It's very possible that Kestegs was just pulling a Sath play, for sure, but the whole interaction between them felt like more than Pharphis just taking advantage. I can't say for sure which is why I suggested we wait and see how Kestegs plays going forward. It could be either scenario really.

As far as my response to votes on me yesterday, I made a joke about the vote stick and got hit with it and then a couple more votes came on and I joked about being a masochist but not THAT much of one. I didn't think think there was anything to it other than some early joking.

 

[Drixx]

I don't see what I'd call a slip. I disagree with several reads/reasons. I don't know why he was interested in the second voter to AAA (pharphis) but not the second voter to Drixx (Sathoris) or pharphis (Drixx). I don't know why he thinks doing the exact bare minimum to avoid a modkill (intentionally trying avoiding a modkill) makes one qualify as risking a modkill especially after the player in question intimates they were checking on the thread throughout D1 (but not posting...). I don't understand why he calls Noodle's posting unsubstantial when Numbers thanked Noodle for the explanation that kicked off the Noodle debate. I can't reconcile Numbers's words about AAA the lurker with Number's behavior toward AAA.

Which is why I speculated AAA and numbers possibly being linked and teamed with Pharphis. It looks like numbers maybe was trying to get something started on Noodle and it kind of backfired on him a bit.

 

[Goryani]

I think that this is premature to decide this based upon one person's opinion that the vote stick going to the zombies is a bad thing. At the very end of the game when it could alter which day MYLO/LYLO land on, but we might have a cop out there investigating people. It's possible we can have some confirmed townies near the end of the game who haven't had the stick, and it could get passed into known townie hands at the end of the game.

A townie can simply choose to hold on to and destroy the stick if we get to mid game and there's not any kind of way to keep it out of zombie hands for the endgame. Destroying it now destroys our chance to see how each person uses it, which could be interesting and potentially useful.

A lot of coulds and mights and possibles in there...

Who is the one person? If given the vote stick, would you pass it along or destroy it?

 

[Jcakes1]

You really think he'd pull a Jerome at the very start like that? It's very possible that Kestegs was just pulling a Sath play, for sure, but the whole interaction between them felt like more than Pharphis just taking advantage. I can't say for sure which is why I suggested we wait and see how Kestegs plays going forward. It could be either scenario really.

Yes I really do believe he'd do that, mostly as a distancing tool. Sucmphis is known to take gambits and play risky.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

This is actually the first time Ive actually kept track since D1 of such things, and they actually have all gone into the exact same unsaved text file. I never turn my computer off, so I just don't bother saving it. What exactly are you asking for more information on?

You know, this being the first time that you've kept track of it actually makes it sound pretty scummy. Were you scum in any of the previous games? Because if you weren't it makes it sound like you need to keep track of it so you get your facts straight when someone questions you.

Actually 2 posts.

Going to argue with me AND steal my posting style? BLASPHEMY.

Can't go wrong with either one, in my opinion. Of course, I probably can't go right, if you catch my drift, with either one so the point is moot.



I'm not completely sure. The Voting Stick will be a popcorn machine the rest of the game and that may be the purpose it exists. It's something to do in twilight. I don't get the feeling other roles directly interact with the Stick or it's effect but there is always the chance of another Vala role or politician/lawyer role. I think it can theoretically benefit any and every faction. I think the "best use" will come at and just before MYLO/LYLO. MYLO/LYLO will even change days depending on which faction holds it. Unfortunately, there is no way to predict which faction will hold it, when, but mafia is best able to choose the faction of the recipient (at the expense of leaving a paper trail).

The best use of it will be without a doubt be closer to MYLO/LYLO, the only thing is that Mafia if they get a hold onto the stick close to MYLO/LYLO I fear it is much more dangerous.

I do too, however I feel like Laarz should not be voted for today. If you put yourself in the shoes of a mafia gory, him giving the stick to a mafia laarz is just insanely risky. Too risky in fact. *if* Gory is mafia his best play is to give the stick to someone he doesnt think is mafia

Agreed, especially with the new facts that TC posted as he would want to stick to be able to go to his other mafia coherts closer to MYLO/LYLO rather than waste it early in the game where it is no where near as useful. However looking at it from a Townie Gory, passing it to Laarz, while not the best play, also now means Laarz can't have it later in the game, which I'm not sure if is a good or bad thing at this exact moment. What do you think a townie Gory would have done, you obviously think he would have done differently in that case....

I feel that it's more than likely that there are two factions, as there were two in the last SG game TC hosted. The mafia in that game had extremely versatile and powerful abilities, so I'm expecting more or less the same from at least one of the factions (with the other being a traditional zombie/cult role).

Is it possible that zombies have alternating abilities, such as being able to infest/recruit one night and being able to kill the next? Or maybe I'm over thinking things and one of the groups were role blocked night one. I guess there's no way to find out as of now.

This is actually very helpful information, I guess I should have went back to read the other stargate games but it is definitely a different perspective than I would have originally thought. Alternating abilities, creative, and doesn't sound unlike TC.

 

[Goryani]

but if Kestegs wasn't teamed with Pharphis, how do we explain the odd interaction they had where Pharphis pushed Kestegs to give a reason, and then Pharphis goes from a series of posts promising a reason that would convince us to vote AAA to then walking it back to "it was just a bluff to see how AAA and others would respond".

kestegs doesn't have to be scum in order for a pharphis to realize he's being zeroed in on. kestegs doesn't have to be scum in order to wonder why pharphis did what he did nor to be leery of "going first."

I don't know that Kestegs can really say anything to convince us that he wasn't connected

It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe this was something they planned previously. Such a stunt by two mafia teammates is too.... I don't even know what it would be as it wouldn't help them in any way.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

I don't see what I'd call a slip. I disagree with several reads/reasons. I don't know why he was interested in the second voter to AAA (pharphis) but not the second voter to Drixx (Sathoris) or pharphis (Drixx). I don't know why he thinks doing the exact bare minimum to avoid a modkill (intentionally trying avoiding a modkill) makes one qualify as risking a modkill especially after the player in question intimates they were checking on the thread throughout D1 (but not posting...). I don't understand why he calls Noodle's posting unsubstantial when Numbers thanked Noodle for the explanation that kicked off the Noodle debate. I can't reconcile Numbers's words about AAA the lurker with Number's behavior toward AAA.

Not interested in the second vote on drixx because the drixx votes seemed like jokes, and in any case now he's dead.. Not interested in the second voter on pharphis because he flipped scum(a logic path that you may or may not agree with). I thought you were required to make *two* contributive posts per day phase as in the previous games I've played, not just one, so it appeared to me that korial actually failed to do that but came in 4 minutes late with a reason and TC let him slide on it. Noodles posting was unsubstantial in that beyond that post explaining things to me, he hasn't shown any opinions of his own other than that he isn't scum.

Tell me what part of my behavior towards AAA you view as not fitting in with my words, and I'll gladly tell you why I behaved the way I did.

Anyways, no one has told me yet if I had decided to not vote at the end of yesterday, when I wasn't quite certain if we had 10 votes or not, would make me more or less scummy to them.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

You know, this being the first time that you've kept track of it actually makes it sound pretty scummy. Were you scum in any of the previous games? Because if you weren't it makes it sound like you need to keep track of it so you get your facts straight when someone questions you.
.

Nope, not scum in any previous games. That's a very obvious conclusion to arrive at however, and I don't see why I would, as scum, say something so potentially incriminating. This is actually the action of someone who was vt last game and found it incredibly boring, so decided to apply themselves more regardless of role to try to make the next game interesting. Also, if you haven't noticed, I've already made a few mistakes in referencing other peoples actions and words. The point isn't to keep my facts straight, but to allow me to make informed decisions on my own, instead of having to rely on everyone elses logic as I have both of my previous games.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Numbers: If you got to kill one person you thought was scummy right now, who would you choose?

Pyro: I haven't heard too much from you, what are your thoughts on the game? Scum? Town?

Also, I'm still fairly skeptical of Noodle.

I know you missed me, work was busy and I chose to skim the off topic posts instead of getting engrossed in the mafia game, and then coming home to my garage being in the process of water flowing under the door so its been a fun evening, but now you get to enjoy all my quoting/posting glory for the time.

I stand by my vote.

@Jcakes
I would have passed it to me if I were Gory since I am the only twnie I am sure of. If I had it D1 I would have not passed it on since I wasn't sure who else was townie. And I don't wan't that thing in mafia hands. Here I assume that it will be destroyed if the owner doesn't pass it on. That said I will not vote for anyone having it in the first 3 days just in case it is in town hands. It can be a powerful weapon for town. It can be a powerful weapon for mafia later on, so it has to go after the early advantage for town has passed.

You being the only townie that you know of is a terrible answer. If Gory is townie, how would he have any knowledge of you being townie?

Laarz and AAA voted for pharscum, Korial almost got themselves mod killed, I don't think scum would have voted for phar for the reasons I expressed before, or risked getting mod killed. Noodle neither voted for phar nor got himself almost mod killed, so I don't have any reason to think he's town.



You were under fire for making one long post that explained something to me, not really for not lurking that I can see? Though you may be posting more than normal(this is my first game with you, so I can't really speak about that) I do see that the posts you've made have been rather unsubstantive, other than the ones you've made to defend yourself. Just defending oneself, without actually taking any action that seems to be scumhunting, isn't actually lurking true, but it does keep me from drawing any connections that I can use to place you even tentatively as either town or scum.

BTW, I've actually followed this game much more closely than any other game I've been in so far.

BPC, and everyone: Vig shot, who do you shoot and why?

Uh, mafia definately don't want to be modkilled, not sure how that makes korial not a suspect.

Following it closer than any other, sounds like it correlates to you keeping notes, why so much more attention than in previous games?

Also, not sure why we are doing hypothetical vig shots. Why don't we just show our suspects with votes and put pressure on people rather than playing with imaginary vig shots? P.S. you are climbing up the ladder.

There are a few people who I'm surprised I haven't heard from today. Over halfway through the day and no Pyro?

Technically I made one post at the beginning of the day phase, maybe I should change my name to Laarz.

Also, I didn't know you had a crush on me BPC, that's so sweet.

I think the person that stikes me as having the biggest connection to pharph is antsers. My justification for voting Antswers, was it felt like an early bus from pharphis (following kestegs lead).

Early bus from pharphis? He wanted to be an early vote, at the very beginning of Day 1? When kegs vote had absolutely no support? Man, that's even more Jerome than the Jerome he pulled on you. Its almost ridiculous actually if you were going to use it as substantial reasoning for following kegs/phars vote. (PS, not sure why you need a justification for voting AAA when you never actually voted AAA?)

 

[Goryani]

My new question is now if Goryani had all this information before the night ended and he made his decision? Is it possible you could answer this TC?

I can answer. Yes, I had that info during the night phase but not during the day phase. The questions I asked during night phase led to those rules/restrictions being made known to me.

That's a song

fa la la la la, la la la la

Didn't I make this point yesterday? I think I made this point yesterday. Yeah...I did, in response to you requesting everyone to pick someone to use the second vote on if I remember correctly.

I don't think they are the same thing. One is talking about judging how someone votes, which you could always do, while the other is talking about judging how others respond to a question. My offer does not stop you from judging me but the lack of responses does stop you and others from judging each other.

 

[Goryani]

I love how normally someone putting the locking vote on a person and that person flipping scum would normally be a townie thing to do, but since it was so late its actually considered scummy. Just an amusement that I've apparently never realized before.

But a valid point none the less, it does seem more like a "I need to be on this lynch since it is in fact happening" kind of play.

Not just the last minute vote is subject to this line of thinking. There was no other viable lynch candidate. It was either pharphis or not-pharphis or no-vote. None of those options are great for other scum (each one of those reasons has been used to call someone scummy this day phase). A pharphis vote may be the lesser of three evils. At least that way mafia could get some townie cred.

Of course, this all assumes pharphis was mafia. I realize he is listed only as anti-town.

The answer to this varies greatly depending on if you knew that the stick couldn't be passed to the same person twice during the game, so I'm going to refrain from answering until I know that. From a town perspective though it is impossible to know who other townies are, so whoever its passed too would have been based on day 1 reads which are usually not very reliable.

Yes, I knew that the stick couldn't be held by the same person twice.

I still maintain that getting a judgement of character on Laarz from him holding the voting stick/passing on the vote stick will not be reliable.

Why? This is very relevant to me as I considered it possible to make such a read.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

You know what, that's just so out there cakes that I had to go back and find where you voted for pharphis.

Here is your thought supporting why you thought phar and ant were on the same team:

It is actually similar to some moves that scum pharphis has made. I recall in one particular game where he linked himself to kestegs who turned out to be scum from another team. Also note that he has somewhat of a reputation of busing team mates (started when he completely hung me out to dry in the Gods of Ancient Greece game), hence why i thought that maybe he and Antswers are on the same team and he responded to kegs placing a vote by following suit.

Here is phar's response:

I've said this a few times and I'll say it again. I had no evidence to believe kegs was scum in that game (since I was) and so I assumed he was SK. All I did in that D1 was say that people should at least wait until he says something (it was a party host result that condemned him and he was nearly locked by the time he posted) and people freaked out and said I was his scum buddy. This is in no way comparable to that game, unless you think there are two mafia factions?

Your second point is more valid since yes that is typically my behaviour as mafia

He openly admits that this is his usual behaviour as mafia (risky play and bussing partners), something that makes no sense to openly admit, unless for some reason he wants us to believe that this is happening.

Here is you actually voting for phar:

This is exactly why I am going to Unvote: flubbucket and Vote: pharphis. Pharphis generally takes gambits and risks as scum and I think that he is more likely to be scum then not.
I'll hopefully be back before day end to change my vote if needed, time to get some sleep.

Phar pretty much just accepts it posting nothing in response other than the following, no fight, nothing:

aw

From all this, even though it may have some WIFOM in it, I actually think you are connected to Pharphis, and you saw Pharphis was going down before you were heading to sleep for the night so you made sure that you were on his lynch.

Vote: Jcakes

Also, I have no reason right now to believe that kestegs is scum, both him and pharphis voting for the same person with no support just doesn't make any sense in the slightest logically unless kestegs and pharphis are two completely unrelated scum.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Uh, mafia definately don't want to be modkilled, not sure how that makes korial not a suspect.

Following it closer than any other, sounds like it correlates to you keeping notes, why so much more attention than in previous games?

Also, not sure why we are doing hypothetical vig shots. Why don't we just show our suspects with votes and put pressure on people rather than playing with imaginary vig shots? P.S. you are climbing up the ladder.

#430 for your questions. BPC asked me about who I would kill, I answered and wanted the same information.

 

[Jcakes1]

You know what, that's just so out there cakes that I had to go back and find where you voted for pharphis.

Here is your thought supporting why you thought phar and ant were on the same team:



Here is phar's response:



He openly admits that this is his usual behaviour as mafia (risky play and bussing partners), something that makes no sense to openly admit, unless for some reason he wants us to believe that this is happening.

Here is you actually voting for phar:



Phar pretty much just accepts it posting nothing in response other than the following, no fight, nothing:



From all this, even though it may have some WIFOM in it, I actually think you are connected to Pharphis, and you saw Pharphis was going down before you were heading to sleep for the night so you made sure that you were on his lynch.

Vote: Jcakes

Also, I have no reason right now to believe that kestegs is scum, both him and pharphis voting for the same person with no support just doesn't make any sense in the slightest logically unless kestegs and pharphis are two completely unrelated scum.

Kind of amusing cos your theory is just as out there.

I didn't have a chance to post this before, but this is also part of the reason I think pharphis is connected to Antswers. Note his responses when pharphis voted for him.

QUOTE=AnnualAntAnswers;8566181]Everybody betray me, I fed up with this wurrrld.[/QUOTE]

Too much misdirection for my liking.

Vote: Pharphis

I won't take kindly to being put in your cross-hairs. It's about time you were gone.
Well, let me see - we've got slow death, quick death, painful death, cold, lonely death.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Nope, not scum in any previous games. That's a very obvious conclusion to arrive at however, and I don't see why I would, as scum, say something so potentially incriminating. This is actually the action of someone who was vt last game and found it incredibly boring, so decided to apply themselves more regardless of role to try to make the next game interesting. Also, if you haven't noticed, I've already made a few mistakes in referencing other peoples actions and words. The point isn't to keep my facts straight, but to allow me to make informed decisions on my own, instead of having to rely on everyone elses logic as I have both of my previous games.

The most obvious conclusions are sometimes the most accurate. Scum saying something so incriminating is usually not intentional which usually results in their lynch. If you are town I applaud your new found effort, however, it is not convincing me as of this moment.

I can answer. Yes, I had that info during the night phase but not during the day phase. The questions I asked during night phase led to those rules/restrictions being made known to me.


fa la la la la, la la la la


I don't think they are the same thing. One is talking about judging how someone votes, which you could always do, while the other is talking about judging how others respond to a question. My offer does not stop you from judging me but the lack of responses does stop you and others from judging each other.

Thanks for clarifying.

But if you try sometimes...you get what you need.

It may not be the same thing, however the thought is still the same. You are copying me. I see now that the lack of connections that could be made are lost, but half of those connections would be false leads anyway if the scum were smart enough to follow the town way of thinking, which I don't see why they wouldn't.

Not just the last minute vote is subject to this line of thinking. There was no other viable lynch candidate. It was either pharphis or not-pharphis or no-vote. None of those options are great for other scum (each one of those reasons has been used to call someone scummy this day phase). A pharphis vote may be the lesser of three evils. At least that way mafia could get some townie cred.

Of course, this all assumes pharphis was mafia. I realize he is listed only as anti-town.


Yes, I knew that the stick couldn't be held by the same person twice.


Why? This is very relevant to me as I considered it possible to make such a read.

It doesn't look like it bought very much town cred to me, especially since Pharphis was getting lynched either way. Technically he was listed as Zombie, anti-town. However I don't know if that makes a difference yet or not.

Since we now know that the stick can't be held by the same person twice, if we were to maintain the voting stick being passed on we would want the most townie people to be the ones to receive the stick closer to end game, and I don't think Laarz will ever fall into that category, so maybe it was a good choice, maybe it wasn't, its hard to say. I originally would have said that you should have passed it to kestegs, but knowing it wouldn't be able to go back to him again, I have to rethink that.

I'm not sure how you can assign so much weight/value to such a read, especially so early during the game, coupling with the fact that Laarz will probably still only make 2/3 posts this day phase.

 

[Goryani]

Not interested in the second voter on pharphis because he flipped scum(a logic path that you may or may not agree with).

You're right. I don't agree with it. Your interest in pharphis as the second voter happened before pharphis was lynched. You were interested in pharphis 2nd vote in post 273 but none of the others. That's the post you said the second vote wasn't worth voting pharphis for... Let's see, pharphis had 5 votes at that point. There was 4.5 hrs left in the day? You voted no other potential suspects. You didn't even name other potential suspects.

Recap:
You had a not-pharphis post when pharphis needed 5 more votes with 4.5 hrs left.
You didn't look for a not-pharphis lynch target at that time or the rest of the day.
You made a lynch-parphis post at the last minute. A post not needed to secure a lynch.
You vouch, several times, for anyone voting pharphis.

I believe that pattern is about as textbook mafia as it gets. flubbs pattern is also suspicious and that has been mentioned. CoolGuyBad also has a suspicious pattern: absence during the period of the day when a serious lynch train exists and no posts from then till the end of the day.ff Yes, my own pattern is far from textbook townie.

Tell me what part of my behavior towards AAA you view as not fitting in with my words, and I'll gladly tell you why I behaved the way I did.

You call AAA a lurker yet you didn't seem interested in learning more about AAA the lurker. You intervened. You denied AAA a chance to show you he could respond like a townie. Your question could have came after AAA responded and your questions to kestegs and pharphis would not have been any less ____ (fill in the blank).

Anyways, no one has told me yet if I had decided to not vote at the end of yesterday, when I wasn't quite certain if we had 10 votes or not, would make me more or less scummy to them.

You don't keep track of votes in that handy text file? Wait, I see some votes there. While tongue in cheek, that's also serious. I think you are quite capable of counting votes and as mafia, would do so. I don't think that not knowing the vote count implies innocence.

See above and my past statements regarding a more or less scummy late vote. Experience tells me it's insanely rare for zero mafia to be on the pharphis lynch train. I'm looking for which pharphis voters were bussing - either vigorous or reluctant - and your D1 play looks very suspicious. Just as I'm looking for which non-pharphis voters are scum.

 

[AnnualAntAnswers]

In addition to what CG says above, the way I see it is as follows:

Basically what it felt like to me is:
1. Kegs makes a Sath vote play on Antswers
2. Phar sees the vote and votes as well
3. Phar claims he has evidence
4. Phar asks kegs why he voted
5. kegs refuses to anwer
6. Phar reveals "I got nothing"
7. Phar flips scum.

My thoughts are that Antswers and pharph are a team and that pharph decided to jerome his scum buddy when he saw the early vote from kegs. TGhe plan backfired when kegs wouldn't provide reasoning for pharph to follow on with.

This all assumes that Antswers is scum though.

Pharphis and I are friends in RL and I think his motivation for choosing me instead of somebody else was just to give me a hard time. As has been pointed out, he jokingly voted for me at the start of twilight too. He was acting weird, which is why I voted against him (that and being a little put out by having been targeted in the first place) but I don't think he had any special knowledge that distinguished me from the rest of the people he could have made his move against.

 

[BipolarChemist]

Also, I didn't know you had a crush on me BPC, that's so sweet.

Aw huney bunny! It's no crush, I just think you're scum!