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Vessel of Hatred

Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

alphaz said:
Vs melee IMO eth valor is better because of the higher defence. Based on my experience with zealots, 30k is the minimum defense I would aim with a melee char.
Click to expand...

ok lets make calculation.
with his perfect gear and buffs his def should be 33246. if we remove arkaines and put 15 ed kraken shell forti after chilling armor kicks in, his def will be 31687.
after that lets asume that zealot have 30 k ar (which i never saw), chance that zealot will hit him with arkaine is 11 %. when using forti chance that he will be hit will be 12 %. and thats when zealot have 30 k ar

is it worth 1 %? i dont think so. i will rather use duress to get some open wounds since that type of duels lasts since lots of blocking and missing



 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Though you're calculations in THEORY should work, they don't always, or most of the time for that matter. Especially in D2 random mechanics. You cannot argue against tested results. Also, don't think I haven't tried these armors that others have worn, but in the end I always come back to Valor. Why? Because it has worked the best so far.
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Retrocide said:
Though you're calculations in THEORY should work, they don't always, or most of the time for that matter. Especially in D2 random mechanics. You cannot argue against tested results. Also, don't think I haven't tried these armors that others have worn, but in the end I always come back to Valor. Why? Because it has worked the best so far.
Click to expand...

You can argue against tested results, that's what he did. And why shouldn't he? It's like saying: Bringing about peace by killing is brilliant. Tested results rulez! With less irony.
Whatever. I just had to say that.

Numbers do work out SOMETIMEs. Perhaps they don't here. But perhaps they do.

You say that you have come to these conclusions by TRIALS, but yet you don't have anything to show for it... you only demand that vknez should concede your points because of your own experience.
It might be true to you, but to most, it has no real value. WHY? Because it doesn't prove a point in this thread. Only when you're dueling.



 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Tnx guys made a wolfbarb with vks recomendations and it's awsome in mellee duels I've beaton some of the best wolves on realm and a really decked out zealot who had 40 k def and 37 3/20/20s it's amazing stats roughly with chant and 2 angelics is over 40 k ar I've got 9.5k life , and 32k def with forti sa more people need to make these fun chars
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

I've set up a table with DPS values for a lot of common wolfbarb weapons, but before I post it I need to know whether anyone has confirmed without a doubt which calculator or breakpoints are correct. At the moment eBotD CB is the best choice just ahead of ethereal Tombreaver with Zod and two 40/15s :p

I've seen older posts where they say feral rage hasn't been figured out and that you should use normal attack as an option in the wereform/titan calcs, which is ridiculous if you've ever played a wolfbarb. A Grief PB most definitely does not hit at 7 fpa. Most newer posts assume that feral rage is now correct (and that you get 3 fpa with 4xShael gris caddy), but I haven't found much evidence for this. I've checked on the AB forum as well and they don't seem very sure either.
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Vk has tested it feral with 4 sheal griss caddy and it is 4 fps
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

*fpa

Ye, I saw that, but I don't like his analysis method at all. Even if what's displayed correlates completely with what happens in the game, analyzing the frames via fraps seems like a very imprecise way to do it. I checked the AB forum again and found T-hawk's analysis using mana use which looks solid to me. I previously thought someone had disproved him, but if it exists I can't find the post now.

Wereform central is way off, while Titanseal's breakpoint for a 4 frame feral rage with a phaseblade coincides exactly with what T-hawk found. It's not impossible that they're both wrong, but like I said, I find it impossible to believe (and anyone that's played a wolfbarb should too) that the normal attack breakpoints should be used.
 
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Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Constructive aren't we? It's really not a bad guide despite being 6 years old, but the weapon section definitely needs a spruce-up and it says nothing about the IAS breakpoints, which is why I made the above-mentioned table.

Regarding feral rage, they seem to have a better understanding of the mechanics on the German forum where titanseal's calc is hosted, but my Germanic first language only helps so much. As far as I can figure out his calc is correct for when your hit connects, otherwise you swing a little slower. I remember from playing SP way-back-when (it's more noticeable with slow weapons) that feral rage sometimes sped up and would be slower at other times. This also explains Vk's results as I think he tested while shift-attacking the air.
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

I tried with grief and beastz. isnt 2h weapons slower??titanseals' says grief pb 5 fpa, botd cb 7 fpa
[youtube]2fcjpqGOSpo[/youtube]
 
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Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Sometimes a higher level werewolf (you used lvl 1) can change the breakpoints. With level 2 werewolf or 15 off-weapon IAS you can reach 6 fpa with a BotD CB. That's one frame slower than grief but 1.5 times the damage :) For pvp that's the way to go, unless you want a greater range or the res from Tombreaver. Versus some casters you might want to go with the fastest weapon regardless of DPS, since once they're in hit recovery they're screwed, and a faster weapon will help to keep them there.

I use Grief on my wolfbarb but with Azurewrath off-hand. Since I mainly run CS (more than 3/4 undead) it shortens my run time more than everything else can. Gloams, PI ghosts and finger mages go down in one hit, and the only enemy I have to run past are those PI witches in WSK.
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

for xx time here, calculations on ALL calculators are wrong for wolfbarb. you must choose normal attack cause normal attack have same speed as feral...

grief pb is 7 frame weapon (31+ ias)
botd cb is 8 frame 1/2 handed,
tomb reaver is also 8 fpa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N39BkB1SYG4
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

... They're wrong if you swing into the air. Go do that same test while attacking a target and you'll get 3 fpa (when your attack hits). Like I said, it makes sense, and correlates exactly with what T-hawk found in his tests described on the AB forum.

Here's a rough google translation of Titanseal's animation FAQ at diablo.ingame. It's mostly useless but you can sort-of get the gist of it. If you want to see the German or his analysis of the animation ticks here's the original post.
When the attack rate of Barbarenwut it matters whether we meet the enemy really is. If this is not the case, then, the duration of the blow that of a normal attack. Only if we cause the enemy to Barbarenwut damage (ie overcome defense and block), we get a speed bonus. The attack rate of this attack is thus influenced to some extent by the chance to hit.
At the beginning of this FAQ, I have covered the basics of animation calculation and provides the kind are now necessary. Before the start of an animation specific values are read from the game data and calculated so that the counter-value and increase the counter end value can be calculated, their ratio determines the length of each animation.

Counter end value = * Hitshift FramesPerDirection
Counter-rise value = [animation speed * Acceleration/100]

So far, these values were constant, they were not changed after its calculation. An effect of speed was so far (apart from the second special case "whirlwind") only by changing the acceleration (of SIAS, which in convertible form but looses in importance), (to lower the FramesPerDirection) a change in animation or a rollback, in which again no single impact would be possible. Barbarenwut is in this respect is a special case, because this attack increases the previously calculated Counter-rise value. Stick with an action is first queried whether our attack hits the opponent. If this were the case, the Counter-rise value is doubled, making the final part of the animation (the part between actual impact and animation end) runs faster.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

hubb said:
Ye, I saw that, but I don't like his analysis method at all. Even if what's displayed correlates completely with what happens in the game, analyzing the frames via fraps seems like a very imprecise way to do it.
Click to expand...

Doing it like that just doesn't compare to analysing it via mana use or actually extracting the game files and seeing exactly how the animation works.

Have you never noticed that you don't always attack with feral rage at the same speed?


 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

y altering the game with unexisting stuff is way to go...

have you played wolfbarb or wolf druid?

griss caddy hits 4 fpa not 3 fpa as sugested by calculator. you claim that when you succesfully hit opponent attack speeds up?
on griss caddy 3 frame is when you hit (extend paw), so how can it be shortened to 3 fpa when 3 frames are already spent...
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

According to TitanSeal's Attack Speed Calculator, with minimum level 3 Werewolf, Feral Rage has the following attack rates:

Code: 
WEAPON                                            WEAPON IAS   FRAMES
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Breath of the Dying Colossus Blade (one-handed)           60        6
                                   (two-handed)           60        6
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomb Reaver Cryptic Axe                                   85        6
                                                         105        5
                                                         120        5
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Grief Phase Blade                                         30        6
                                                          31        5
                                                          40        5
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase Blade                                               75        4
                                                         100        3
                                                         120        3
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Griswold's Redemption Caduceus                            95        4
                                                         120        3
When I tested this with 95% chance-to-hit a target, using poison length and mana regeneration to measure attack rate and equipping a shield with one-handed weapons, the results confirmed the accuracy of all those breakpoints and attack rates, regardless of whether the target was selected or not. However, when I repeated the tests with just 5% chance-to-hit, I found the following breakpoints and attack rates:

Code: 
WEAPON                                            WEAPON IAS   FRAMES
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Breath of the Dying Colossus Blade (one-handed)           60        [highlight]8[/highlight]
                                   (two-handed)           60        8
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomb Reaver Cryptic Axe                                   85        8
                                                         105        7
                                                         120        7
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Grief Phase Blade                                         30        [highlight]8[/highlight]
                                                          31        [highlight]7[/highlight]
                                                          40        [highlight]7[/highlight]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase Blade                                               75        5
                                                         100        4
                                                         120        4
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Griswold's Redemption Caduceus                            95        5
                                                         120        4
UPDATE 14 NOVEMBER 2010 [highlight]Highlighted[/highlight] values are corrections.

The breakpoints appear to be in the same place (but for whatever reason the length of the attack animation differs depending on whether Feral Rage hits or misses), so the only impact this should have is on damage rate calculations.
 
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Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

Thanks for all the hard work, Onderduiker :)
 
Re: Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

onderduiker said:
According to TitanSeal's Attack Speed Calculator, with minimum level 3 Werewolf, Feral Rage has the following attack rates:

Code: 
WEAPON                                            WEAPON IAS   FRAMES
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Breath of the Dying Colossus Blade (one-handed)           60        6
                                   (two-handed)           60        6
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomb Reaver Cryptic Axe                                   85        6
                                                         105        5
                                                         120        5
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Grief Phase Blade                                         30        6
                                                          31        5
                                                          40        5
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase Blade                                               75        4
                                                         100        3
                                                         120        3
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Griswold's Redemption Caduceus                            95        4
                                                         120        3
When I tested this with 95% chance-to-hit a target, using poison length and mana regeneration to measure attack rate and equipping a shield with one-handed weapons, the results confirmed the accuracy of all those breakpoints and attack rates, regardless of whether the target was selected or not. However, when I repeated the tests with just 5% chance-to-hit, I found the following breakpoints and attack rates:

Code: 
WEAPON                                            WEAPON IAS   FRAMES
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Breath of the Dying Colossus Blade (one-handed)           60        9
                                   (two-handed)           60        8
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomb Reaver Cryptic Axe                                   85        8
                                                         105        7
                                                         120        7
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Grief Phase Blade                                         30        9
                                                          31        8
                                                          40        8
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase Blade                                               75        5
                                                         100        4
                                                         120        4
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Griswold's Redemption Caduceus                            95        5
                                                         120        4
The breakpoints appear to be in the same place (but for whatever reason the length of the attack animation differs depending on whether Feral Rage hits or misses), so the only impact this should have is on damage rate calculations.
Click to expand...

wrong. lots of misinformation...
i will post tommorow frame by frame for griss caddy. 4 different paw positions while hitting with feral...



 
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