Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)
- Thread starter Zero-unit
- Start date
Hmm, pardon me for not reading through 100 pages of this thread, but IMO there's a nice PvP setup alternate to Gris Caddy which can and should be used.
4x Shaeled Gris Caddy -> Grief Phase 31+ IAS
Duress -> Fortitude
With these on, you'll be dealing insane damage in 7 frames, which is, well, quite slow, but still very appealing. Base the calculations on: average Grief damage ~400 with Phase blade damage included, you receive roughly 400 ed from Mastery, Feral Rage and Strength, and 300 ed from Fortitude. So this 400 damage get multiplied by x8 modifier, so your final physical damage with Grief/Forti combo should be about 3200 dmg. With lots of skill bonuses/damage charms/higher str this could possibly reach 4k damage still at 7 frames. And thats not max damage, thats average.(!) Pretty nifty. Considering the fact you will have the bonus Venom on Grief, OW on gores and also the fact that Feral Rage is actually faster than 7 frames if you hit often (unsure how it works, but pretty much assured that its connected with successful hitting, if you try to hit an Exile Pally or Ironbarb, you wont ever get faster than 7 frames), this is an ungodly dps.
Combine this with nearly highest ever possible life on char (a ladder Wolf Baba I duelled claimed he had a 10k life wolf on NL), great FRW, pretty nice AR for such high dps (easily over 20k with dual angelics, somewhat harder to do with other rings, but still possible), godly wolf FHR and pretty nice resists which many other Were-Builds seem to lack, and you'll eat most duellers for breakfast.
One might wonder if Fortitude has slightly low defense for a char with 600+ ed, but they forget the very nifty CTC Chilling Armor on Forti which more than makes up for lower armor defense. (as WolfHowl itself and Stormshield have very nice integer defense which is boosted by it) It definetely beats both Stone and eth bugged Prudence, leaving Duress for some special cases.
As for alternate ring options, for people like me who are not just ready to insert a Cham in a WolfHowl (there are better and cheaper socketing options for it, really), a Raven is a must. So, this leaves us with up to 250 AR from a Raven, and about 1k AR from Angelic ring/amu. If we are not poor, the angelic combo might be substituted for another Raven (+250 AR) and a MetalGrid (+450 AR), which give +700 AR total, not that far from angelic. And another Raven basically means we have another 20 stat points to spend - our wolf gets 20X4=80 BO'able life - more than enough to compensate for the life from angelic combo. The obvious benefits are +25-35 resist all and up to 350 defense that becomes about +2500 to total defense when affected by skills. Not bad.
The one obvious drawback of 7-frame wolf is the thrice-damned Smite. Vs Smiters, you will lose most of the time. This leads us to another path to follow after the high level breakpoint - spend points into Mace Mastery as we gain levels 85+ and switch to Gris Caddy/Duress versus Smiters. Increased Speed cannot be better than FRW charms, it gives +1 FRW after lvl 10, much like Natural Resistance, whose diminishing returns also come into play quite early. So developing a second mastery is indeed an option. Versus classes other than smiters however, you will rock. Some really twinked-out WW barbs might give you troubles as they still attack faster and have superior range (and are uninterruptible), but, if youre really devoted into making your wolf, you will have higher life to compensate. But you're definetely guaranteed to have a chance vs everyone.
If you ever go PvM, accept the one bad side of wolf barbs - really slow blocking. Consider Shael'ing your Stormshield in that case. This also might come handy versus Wind Druids and Guided Arrow Zons, as these will put you into blocking animation quite often, but experience tells me that these duels are more issues of good FRW/damage in case of Zon, (Put on Cats Eye instead of MetalGrid or Angelic Amu, you will barely need any AR versus zons - they dont have enhanced defense skills, only dodge/evade/aviod) and micro skills vs Wind Druid (KILL THEIR OAK, its nigh impossible to do without that), but still, that extra block frame could mean the difference between life and death, so, if money isn't your primary concern, keep a Shaeled Stomshield in stash to counter these.
To conclude this, I've calculated that a Gris Caddy socketed with 40/15's in tandem with Fortitude will do about 3/5 damage of Grief Phase at 5 frames, which is faster than Smite and still in high-damage area, meaning probably the best weapon for a Wolf Baba. I would like to see a person so ungodly rich to do that, though. ^^
4x Shaeled Gris Caddy -> Grief Phase 31+ IAS
Duress -> Fortitude
With these on, you'll be dealing insane damage in 7 frames, which is, well, quite slow, but still very appealing. Base the calculations on: average Grief damage ~400 with Phase blade damage included, you receive roughly 400 ed from Mastery, Feral Rage and Strength, and 300 ed from Fortitude. So this 400 damage get multiplied by x8 modifier, so your final physical damage with Grief/Forti combo should be about 3200 dmg. With lots of skill bonuses/damage charms/higher str this could possibly reach 4k damage still at 7 frames. And thats not max damage, thats average.(!) Pretty nifty. Considering the fact you will have the bonus Venom on Grief, OW on gores and also the fact that Feral Rage is actually faster than 7 frames if you hit often (unsure how it works, but pretty much assured that its connected with successful hitting, if you try to hit an Exile Pally or Ironbarb, you wont ever get faster than 7 frames), this is an ungodly dps.
Combine this with nearly highest ever possible life on char (a ladder Wolf Baba I duelled claimed he had a 10k life wolf on NL), great FRW, pretty nice AR for such high dps (easily over 20k with dual angelics, somewhat harder to do with other rings, but still possible), godly wolf FHR and pretty nice resists which many other Were-Builds seem to lack, and you'll eat most duellers for breakfast.
One might wonder if Fortitude has slightly low defense for a char with 600+ ed, but they forget the very nifty CTC Chilling Armor on Forti which more than makes up for lower armor defense. (as WolfHowl itself and Stormshield have very nice integer defense which is boosted by it) It definetely beats both Stone and eth bugged Prudence, leaving Duress for some special cases.
As for alternate ring options, for people like me who are not just ready to insert a Cham in a WolfHowl (there are better and cheaper socketing options for it, really), a Raven is a must. So, this leaves us with up to 250 AR from a Raven, and about 1k AR from Angelic ring/amu. If we are not poor, the angelic combo might be substituted for another Raven (+250 AR) and a MetalGrid (+450 AR), which give +700 AR total, not that far from angelic. And another Raven basically means we have another 20 stat points to spend - our wolf gets 20X4=80 BO'able life - more than enough to compensate for the life from angelic combo. The obvious benefits are +25-35 resist all and up to 350 defense that becomes about +2500 to total defense when affected by skills. Not bad.
The one obvious drawback of 7-frame wolf is the thrice-damned Smite. Vs Smiters, you will lose most of the time. This leads us to another path to follow after the high level breakpoint - spend points into Mace Mastery as we gain levels 85+ and switch to Gris Caddy/Duress versus Smiters. Increased Speed cannot be better than FRW charms, it gives +1 FRW after lvl 10, much like Natural Resistance, whose diminishing returns also come into play quite early. So developing a second mastery is indeed an option. Versus classes other than smiters however, you will rock. Some really twinked-out WW barbs might give you troubles as they still attack faster and have superior range (and are uninterruptible), but, if youre really devoted into making your wolf, you will have higher life to compensate. But you're definetely guaranteed to have a chance vs everyone.
If you ever go PvM, accept the one bad side of wolf barbs - really slow blocking. Consider Shael'ing your Stormshield in that case. This also might come handy versus Wind Druids and Guided Arrow Zons, as these will put you into blocking animation quite often, but experience tells me that these duels are more issues of good FRW/damage in case of Zon, (Put on Cats Eye instead of MetalGrid or Angelic Amu, you will barely need any AR versus zons - they dont have enhanced defense skills, only dodge/evade/aviod) and micro skills vs Wind Druid (KILL THEIR OAK, its nigh impossible to do without that), but still, that extra block frame could mean the difference between life and death, so, if money isn't your primary concern, keep a Shaeled Stomshield in stash to counter these.
To conclude this, I've calculated that a Gris Caddy socketed with 40/15's in tandem with Fortitude will do about 3/5 damage of Grief Phase at 5 frames, which is faster than Smite and still in high-damage area, meaning probably the best weapon for a Wolf Baba. I would like to see a person so ungodly rich to do that, though. ^^
7 fpa just isn't fast enough for a swing based dueler that cannot teleport
against melee-only duelers who sit there attacking you from a specific position then grief will win for sure
but against teleporting casters and teleporting melee you want to get them into hit recovery lock as soon as you can and that is the reason for the 4 fpa caddy
7 fpa grief for pvm, that also easily wins
against melee-only duelers who sit there attacking you from a specific position then grief will win for sure
but against teleporting casters and teleporting melee you want to get them into hit recovery lock as soon as you can and that is the reason for the 4 fpa caddy
7 fpa grief for pvm, that also easily wins
Well, afaik, there are no teleporting meleers that are better than runner meleers vs another melee char like a wolfbarb, so Gris Caddy loses here. (dueled a Gris Caddy Wolf that was much richer than me, he had dual Hoto's for prebuff and still killed him with like 50% life left)
Against high range telecasters, Gris Caddy can indeed be better. They generally have crap FHR/FBR however, so just one succesfull hit with Grief could mean block/recovery lock and instant death for them. (Have yet to see a sorc who can stand more than three hits form Grief/Forti, they no doubt exist, but still) Also running trapsins are a pain with 7-frames, but they all have to stop for casting at some moment and you could probably stand 3-4 of their traps shooting full charges at you. A gamble, but with pretty good chances. As Forti offers +5% max light resist, you have a slight edge.
Against low range telecasters (Wind Druids, Hammerdins) Grief imo is better, as they actually tele to you instead of teleing from you. Gris Caddy wont even put most good Wind Druids into FHR animation every time you hit, much unlike Grief, and Recovery/Block animation games are very important in duels with Druids. From what I learned, you just have to catch the Druid when he hasn't yet recasted his Oak. Even if you manage to score one hit before he recasts, that hit will eat away 1/4-1/3 of his life and Hurricane isnt of much concern to you.
Ive duelled much in pubbies and really noticed only two kinds of chars eating me nearly without chances - Grief Smiters and Uber-Twinked Charged Strike Zons who were probably mentioned above as the bane of all Wolfbarbs not dependant on the equip. Good sorcs are really hard to kill, but, if you're good with dodging, it really becomes a game of mistakes, and, unlike the sorc, youre allowed to make more than one. Also, Grief might be better vs Bonemancers, as you will actually eat their Bone Armor and reduce their red orb before they recast it. With Gris Caddy you will be doing damage more often, but they recast their armor, negating it completely. No counter-measures for Bone Wall, Prison, Decrep and such though. The most interesting duels for this setup are definetely Hammerdins (non-Enigma, vs Eni Hammerdins its much harder) and Windies.
BTW, if you're uberly rich, consider using an Enigma as a combo armor with Gris Caddy. You cant use tele, but the 45% FRW mod is plain godly.
And much like most WW babas have separate setups for melee/casters, this is the melee setup for Wolf baba. The caster setup remains Gris Caddy, its just possible to get decent levels of both masteries.
Against high range telecasters, Gris Caddy can indeed be better. They generally have crap FHR/FBR however, so just one succesfull hit with Grief could mean block/recovery lock and instant death for them. (Have yet to see a sorc who can stand more than three hits form Grief/Forti, they no doubt exist, but still) Also running trapsins are a pain with 7-frames, but they all have to stop for casting at some moment and you could probably stand 3-4 of their traps shooting full charges at you. A gamble, but with pretty good chances. As Forti offers +5% max light resist, you have a slight edge.
Against low range telecasters (Wind Druids, Hammerdins) Grief imo is better, as they actually tele to you instead of teleing from you. Gris Caddy wont even put most good Wind Druids into FHR animation every time you hit, much unlike Grief, and Recovery/Block animation games are very important in duels with Druids. From what I learned, you just have to catch the Druid when he hasn't yet recasted his Oak. Even if you manage to score one hit before he recasts, that hit will eat away 1/4-1/3 of his life and Hurricane isnt of much concern to you.
Ive duelled much in pubbies and really noticed only two kinds of chars eating me nearly without chances - Grief Smiters and Uber-Twinked Charged Strike Zons who were probably mentioned above as the bane of all Wolfbarbs not dependant on the equip. Good sorcs are really hard to kill, but, if you're good with dodging, it really becomes a game of mistakes, and, unlike the sorc, youre allowed to make more than one. Also, Grief might be better vs Bonemancers, as you will actually eat their Bone Armor and reduce their red orb before they recast it. With Gris Caddy you will be doing damage more often, but they recast their armor, negating it completely. No counter-measures for Bone Wall, Prison, Decrep and such though. The most interesting duels for this setup are definetely Hammerdins (non-Enigma, vs Eni Hammerdins its much harder) and Windies.
BTW, if you're uberly rich, consider using an Enigma as a combo armor with Gris Caddy. You cant use tele, but the 45% FRW mod is plain godly.
And much like most WW babas have separate setups for melee/casters, this is the melee setup for Wolf baba. The caster setup remains Gris Caddy, its just possible to get decent levels of both masteries.
bonemancers?
bone prison + IM = gg wolfbarb ?
that or decrepify + ranged spirit/spear spam
i never bothered to duel bonemancers with my wolfbarb, he had no chance
bone prison + IM = gg wolfbarb ?
that or decrepify + ranged spirit/spear spam
i never bothered to duel bonemancers with my wolfbarb, he had no chance
Both Bone Prison and Decrepify are considered cheese in duels, so no real need to build up your char against those particularly. Bonemancers are a hard duel for any kind of character, wolfbarb being no exception, but, if they play mannered, definetely doable.
Bluz are you on NL east? B/c i would very much like to try and prove you wrong about ur greif and prove that it is way too slow of a wep even with all of its wonderful mods. Now i dont have a fort to combine with my grief but my setup has done some pretty decent dmg to most conc baba's,ww, other wolfs, etc. I use a rather low % griz caddy (which i soon hope to get a better one) and a pretty decent boneweave duress. If u r on east and would be interested in seeing which set up would be better i think it could be a lot of fun 
. Account is /m *zombie-h I should be on tonight for most of the night. Theres only one thing i think i need to mention, my laptop isnt in the greatest of shape atm and overheats within an hour or 2 of d2 play lol... so let me know here or online.
-BLoke
. Account is /m *zombie-h I should be on tonight for most of the night. Theres only one thing i think i need to mention, my laptop isnt in the greatest of shape atm and overheats within an hour or 2 of d2 play lol... so let me know here or online.-BLoke
I haven't seen in the first 30 pages anyone mention dual spirits (sword/sword, sword/monarch) as pre-buff for those not rich enough for hoto's. An easy +4 all skills.
This is Zer0-unit here, using a temporary account until I can retrieve my old one. (Story is a little long.) I don't think I made the mention of Spirit, but I knew about it, thanks for putting it up.
Dr@KE~
Dr@KE~
I can't remember if the info was right or not but I remember reading that half the IAS from gloves is factored in and added to WIAS. In that case, a 39 or 40% IAS Grief PB coupled with a 20%IAS pair of gloves would get you to 6 frames, which would at least put you on par with Smiters.
Correct me if I'm wrong :wink3:
Good to see you around again, Drake. :smiley:
Correct me if I'm wrong :wink3:
Good to see you around again, Drake. :smiley:
[exile] said:
More like 1/8th of that is added, it is a very minor boost to the speed. Thank you for the welcome, I still won't have my origonal account for a while.
Dr@kE~
Can anyone Elaborate further on this??
Im planing to remake my WolfBarb (for the 5 time)
If its possible for a WolfBarb to reach 6 FPA using 40 IAS Greif,
then ill use that over Gris caddy.
SummerFun
You take 20 ias fo the gloves (or w/e ias is on them) multiply that by 1/8 and add that to the weapon ias, in this case a 40% Greif w/e (though i assume a pb for the speed). An eighth of 20 is hardly anything and pretty much not all that deciding (only 2.5 ias), though if your very close to then next bp and say have a 38% grief a 20 ias glove could bring you up to that of a 40% grief speed. Does that help any?
-BLoke
-BLoke
sup yall
last season i made about 6wolfbarbs.. all mastering in diff weapons.. (even tried eth tombreaver wolfbarb just for those smiters...)and you can find my posts around 60ish pages.. lol
ANYWAYS..
hope no1s brought this up before..
has anyone tried or talked about the possibility of using WAR SPIKE DOOM or WAR SPIKE BEAST.. (i cant remember how fast the warspike botd hit on the wolfbarb)
please let me know if it'l work?!?
cheers in advance
last season i made about 6wolfbarbs.. all mastering in diff weapons.. (even tried eth tombreaver wolfbarb just for those smiters...)and you can find my posts around 60ish pages.. lol
ANYWAYS..
hope no1s brought this up before..
has anyone tried or talked about the possibility of using WAR SPIKE DOOM or WAR SPIKE BEAST.. (i cant remember how fast the warspike botd hit on the wolfbarb)
please let me know if it'l work?!?
cheers in advance
Hiya people,
I just rushed myself a barb to get this one on going, now I'm having a few problems here.
1. Is Life Tap (Last Wish) BM? (I thought it is)
2. What would I use as weapon if I can't use a LW? I thought Oath might be my best pick. Also I'm wondering in what weapon I should put the weapons I'm talking about cause I can't really seem to use the Dragoons calculator anymore since the webby is down (or do normal druid tables apply here?)
Anyway, give me your opinions about my setup please:
LW, 'Nix, FortArm
I just rushed myself a barb to get this one on going, now I'm having a few problems here.
1. Is Life Tap (Last Wish) BM? (I thought it is)
2. What would I use as weapon if I can't use a LW? I thought Oath might be my best pick. Also I'm wondering in what weapon I should put the weapons I'm talking about cause I can't really seem to use the Dragoons calculator anymore since the webby is down
(or do normal druid tables apply here?)Anyway, give me your opinions about my setup please:
LW, 'Nix, FortArm
sups
refer to my post about ias problems with wolfbarb
fastest = gris caddy shaeld
but if u want sword then:
botd pb (5fps wit HUGE stat boost and nl ll)
grief (7pfps wit HUGE dmg)
cheers
refer to my post about ias problems with wolfbarb
fastest = gris caddy shaeld
but if u want sword then:
botd pb (5fps wit HUGE stat boost and nl ll)
grief (7pfps wit HUGE dmg)
cheers
Google