Zombies invade Atlantis. Stargate zombie Mafia game.

Gwaihir was apparently a bus driver too so that seems unlikely? I don't see anyway that JCakes isn't anti-town though. If the zombies can recruit, A. The game would most likely be over and ungodly close to being over and B. Why wouldn't they recruit me or Laarz? Why would they recruit the person who was one of the four that I hadn't targeted yet?

The real question is if he was the zombie curer and if there is a recruiting faction, they'd have to be close to winning so much that they are in fear of being cured no?

*nods* gwai was a bus driver yes, so it's basically definitely a mafia kill directed at someone who isn't friendly to them.

The only way I see a recruiting power being balanced is if it can only hit vt's. That way they can make an attempt each night, and either recruit a vt, or confirm a pr/scum, but not both. That limits it to at most one recruit gained per night, and only if they hit the right people. A limitation like that seems to be the only reason for an ability like cg's to be in the game. it makes him non vt without confirming to the town that there is a recruiting faction, or giving the town more power.

That is of course speculation, but i don't see it balanced any other way,

If he was a zombie curer and was recruited, then this game should have been over awhile ago.
 
Regarding jcakes not being a liar: It's possible that cgb wasn't a zombie at the time jcakes ability was used on him. This would, however, mean that PR's are vulnerable to whatever recruiting function there is, and I find that fairly unlikely.

If CGB wasn't a zombie yesterday, and BA investigated during the night, and the zombies also infected him during the night, the following would have to all be true for Jcakes' claims to be true:

1.) Zombies would have to be able to infect the power role put in the game to cure them.
2.) The zombie infect would have had to work (most recruit mechanisms are not 100% guaranteed)
3.) The zombie infect would have had to be instantaneous instead of taking effect at the end of the night, thus giving Bad Ash the zombie read.

I think that the much more simple explanation that the Zombies tried a gutsy play yesterday makes way more sense than believing those three things.
 
We have only lynched one mafia, so there need to be 2-3 (I believe 2, since we have Zombies as well). We need to find them asap. I aked yesterday that somebody do the numbers on Lylo/Mylo. The only answers were "nah, I can't". Look at those people for scum I think.

I have a clear scum list:

Drixx
AAA
Jcakes

Town list:
Laarz

Would have been on my town list, but last nights result makes me unsure:
BA

Rest:
I have no clue.
 
Also, I have my monthly card game tomorrow which means I might not post before afternoon Sunday my time (Norway). I'll read the thread with morning coffee, but not sure I have time or consciousness to post before having to get ready.
 
Brain working slow tonight. I need to have a vote out to fullfill the ascention requirement. So I'll vote for the person I want to see lynched the most. I'll vote for any on my scum list though come tomorrow.

Vote: Drixx
 
We have only lynched one mafia, so there need to be 2-3 (I believe 2, since we have Zombies as well). We need to find them asap. I aked yesterday that somebody do the numbers on Lylo/Mylo. The only answers were "nah, I can't". Look at those people for scum I think.

I said it was impossible to make reliable assumptions based upon the info we had yesterday. There was no way to know with certainty that we were dealing with two factions and how many might be in each. Now it seems fairly clear (if you believe BA) that there are two anti-town factions, and it appears that there were at least 3 zombies, and most likely 4 since it looks like Jcakes is team zombie. So you seem to have hit it on the head that there would be 2-3 mafia on the other team (that would be 1/3 anti-town at start of game).

Add one to the number to make a worst case. With 9 people alive and Jcakes presumably a zombie, it seems prudent to assume 2-3 mafia remaining, which makes today or tomorrow MYLO.

By the way, I didn't see you doing any legwork on figuring it out yesterday. None of us had enough information to know for sure. So if we're meant to look at the people who weren't just making up numbers and calling them scum, we should include you, right? I mean, I personally feel like making up numbers would be irresponsible and a scummy thing to do, but you seem to think opposite.


I have a clear scum list:

Drixx

We went over this yesterday, but I'll humor you one more time. Your entire "case" against me is your assertion that I knew your ascension mechanic when I shouldn't have been able to know it. You posit that I'm the mafia godfather and that my team has some kind of investigative role which would give detailed mechanic information (a role that, to my knowledge, has never existed before). You're talking about 1 in 21 chances of me being that particular role, assuming it's even in the game, and then you have to further believe in the existence of a new mechanics investigator type role.

As a general rule, if you have to make something really complicated and unlikely, it isn't very probable. I assumed that you would ascend when you died. It makes sense that death triggers ascension since we killed Noodle, he went away for a day, then ascended. It doesn't make sense that only death by lynch causes this to happen. As it turns out, it was a pretty safe assumption since you later claimed that you would ascend and become a treestump no matter how you died.


Numbers, I forgot Numbers. I put him on my town list.

There's a whole host of reasons why Numbers might not be town, although his answers to you and I yesterday when we asked very similar questions were pretty spot on townie, imo.


Brain working slow tonight. I need to have a vote out to fullfill the ascention requirement. So I'll vote for the person I want to see lynched the most. I'll vote for any on my scum list though come tomorrow.

Vote: Drixx

I totally understand that you think you caught me in some kind of slip of knowing something I shouldn't have, but that simply isn't the case. Until you confirmed it, my understanding of the ascension mechanic was based upon an assumption and some basic logic. I think just about everyone in the game probably had the same basic thought.

If you believe Bad Ash (and I see no reason not to nor any reason why you wouldn't since you have him listed as probable town), we have a confirmed zombie in Jcakes, and yet you think the best play today is to lynch me, confirmed vanilla?

You keep trying to steer us into acting against our own best interests. We have someone caught in a lie in what appears to have been a bold play by team zombie. Town wins by lynching scum and it's counterproductive to lynch an unknown when you have scum right in front of you to lynch first. If you were right, I should still be here tomorrow to be lynched, right?

The more you press for us to act against our best play, the more I wonder if you aren't actually the mafia godfather. It kind of makes sense in a TC game that the godfather might have an ascension ability and instead of investigating as vanilla to a rolecop and pro-town to an alignment cop would return unknown/pro-town instead. You've also conveniently claimed a role where there's no reason to question why you are around every day. Why would the town or the anti-town bother to kill a treestump?

I think you just have some gut feeling that you refer to that I'm a baddie and that's your style. Earlier you made some comments about how you're a bad player, but you actually did put together something of a case against me, so clearly you're not operating on just gut feeling anymore. In this case; however, the slip you think you've caught me in simply doesn't make sense. I'd sure appreciate it if you logically re-evaluated the substance of your case against me.

It almost feels like how Sathoris came after me in my first game. I thought I was vanilla at that time (It was a Gorny game so I had a backup role that I didn't know about) and he came after me so relentlessly I actually intentionally got myself modkilled in an attempt to get the town a chance to get scum.

In any case, whether you re-evaluate your case against me or not, and whatever your gut might say about my alignment, we do actually have a nearly 100% confirmed person to lynch today. If you are really pro-town, logic dictates that you take out the known scum and leave tomorrow for tomorrow.

I think I've covered your questions concerning MYLO as well as your suspicions about me in pretty good detail. Unless someone has a specific question, this is the last I have to say in my defense because all I can do is just rehash the same info over and over and that's not in the least bit useful.

P.S. - @Moar - Have fun with the card game
 
I said it was impossible to make reliable assumptions based upon the info we had yesterday. There was no way to know with certainty that we were dealing with two factions and how many might be in each. Now it seems fairly clear (if you believe BA) that there are two anti-town factions, and it appears that there were at least 3 zombies, and most likely 4 since it looks like Jcakes is team zombie. So you seem to have hit it on the head that there would be 2-3 mafia on the other team (that would be 1/3 anti-town at start of game).

Add one to the number to make a worst case. With 9 people alive and Jcakes presumably a zombie, it seems prudent to assume 2-3 mafia remaining, which makes today or tomorrow MYLO.

By the way, I didn't see you doing any legwork on figuring it out yesterday. None of us had enough information to know for sure. So if we're meant to look at the people who weren't just making up numbers and calling them scum, we should include you, right? I mean, I personally feel like making up numbers would be irresponsible and a scummy thing to do, but you seem to think opposite.




We went over this yesterday, but I'll humor you one more time. Your entire "case" against me is your assertion that I knew your ascension mechanic when I shouldn't have been able to know it. You posit that I'm the mafia godfather and that my team has some kind of investigative role which would give detailed mechanic information (a role that, to my knowledge, has never existed before). You're talking about 1 in 21 chances of me being that particular role, assuming it's even in the game, and then you have to further believe in the existence of a new mechanics investigator type role.

As a general rule, if you have to make something really complicated and unlikely, it isn't very probable. I assumed that you would ascend when you died. It makes sense that death triggers ascension since we killed Noodle, he went away for a day, then ascended. It doesn't make sense that only death by lynch causes this to happen. As it turns out, it was a pretty safe assumption since you later claimed that you would ascend and become a treestump no matter how you died.




There's a whole host of reasons why Numbers might not be town, although his answers to you and I yesterday when we asked very similar questions were pretty spot on townie, imo.




I totally understand that you think you caught me in some kind of slip of knowing something I shouldn't have, but that simply isn't the case. Until you confirmed it, my understanding of the ascension mechanic was based upon an assumption and some basic logic. I think just about everyone in the game probably had the same basic thought.

If you believe Bad Ash (and I see no reason not to nor any reason why you wouldn't since you have him listed as probable town), we have a confirmed zombie in Jcakes, and yet you think the best play today is to lynch me, confirmed vanilla?

You keep trying to steer us into acting against our own best interests. We have someone caught in a lie in what appears to have been a bold play by team zombie. Town wins by lynching scum and it's counterproductive to lynch an unknown when you have scum right in front of you to lynch first. If you were right, I should still be here tomorrow to be lynched, right?

The more you press for us to act against our best play, the more I wonder if you aren't actually the mafia godfather. It kind of makes sense in a TC game that the godfather might have an ascension ability and instead of investigating as vanilla to a rolecop and pro-town to an alignment cop would return unknown/pro-town instead. You've also conveniently claimed a role where there's no reason to question why you are around every day. Why would the town or the anti-town bother to kill a treestump?

I think you just have some gut feeling that you refer to that I'm a baddie and that's your style. Earlier you made some comments about how you're a bad player, but you actually did put together something of a case against me, so clearly you're not operating on just gut feeling anymore. In this case; however, the slip you think you've caught me in simply doesn't make sense. I'd sure appreciate it if you logically re-evaluated the substance of your case against me.

It almost feels like how Sathoris came after me in my first game. I thought I was vanilla at that time (It was a Gorny game so I had a backup role that I didn't know about) and he came after me so relentlessly I actually intentionally got myself modkilled in an attempt to get the town a chance to get scum.

In any case, whether you re-evaluate your case against me or not, and whatever your gut might say about my alignment, we do actually have a nearly 100% confirmed person to lynch today. If you are really pro-town, logic dictates that you take out the known scum and leave tomorrow for tomorrow.

I think I've covered your questions concerning MYLO as well as your suspicions about me in pretty good detail. Unless someone has a specific question, this is the last I have to say in my defense because all I can do is just rehash the same info over and over and that's not in the least bit useful.

P.S. - @Moar - Have fun with the card game

I think you dug your own grave here. I hope somebody else, who is town sees it and points it out.
I said yesterday that I didn't believe Jcakes, but how can you say now that he's confirmed lying? What did I miss?
 
Moar: Jcakes speciifcally said that CGB wasn't a zombie based on his whole "quote my vote and I'll know if you're a zombie or not" mechanic that he claimed. BA investigated CGB, and he came up as a zombie. 4 options: Jcakes was lying about his role, Jcakes was lying about CGB being a zombie, BA is lying about his investigation, or CGB became a zombie last night when BA investigated him.

The last option requires a lot of other unlikely things to be true in order to work, and the 3rd option makes BA scum, which is possible, especially considering he's only fed us zombies to kill, not mafia. However, I find both those options to be less likely than the first two, which both require that Jcakes was lying, and is thus scum.
 
Moar: Jcakes speciifcally said that CGB wasn't a zombie based on his whole "quote my vote and I'll know if you're a zombie or not" mechanic that he claimed. BA investigated CGB, and he came up as a zombie. 4 options: Jcakes was lying about his role, Jcakes was lying about CGB being a zombie, BA is lying about his investigation, or CGB became a zombie last night when BA investigated him.

The last option requires a lot of other unlikely things to be true in order to work, and the 3rd option makes BA scum, which is possible, especially considering he's only fed us zombies to kill, not mafia. However, I find both those options to be less likely than the first two, which both require that Jcakes was lying, and is thus scum.

I found it quite likely that Jcakes was lying yesterday , please read my posts. I don't find CBG turning up Zombie a reason to say Jcakes is lying if you didn't think so yesterday.
 
Moar...You asked what you missed that confirmed he was lying...I just told you. :P Don't tell me to go reread your posts when I'm just answering a question you asked to the best of my abilities. It doesn't matter if it was surprising or not, it matters that we have new information now that we did not have yesterday, which we can use to judge the truth of his statements.
 
*nods* gwai was a bus driver yes, so it's basically definitely a mafia kill directed at someone who isn't friendly to them.

The only way I see a recruiting power being balanced is if it can only hit vt's. That way they can make an attempt each night, and either recruit a vt, or confirm a pr/scum, but not both. That limits it to at most one recruit gained per night, and only if they hit the right people. A limitation like that seems to be the only reason for an ability like cg's to be in the game. it makes him non vt without confirming to the town that there is a recruiting faction, or giving the town more power.

That is of course speculation, but i don't see it balanced any other way,

If he was a zombie curer and was recruited, then this game should have been over awhile ago.

I agree about the recruiting aspect. We are on the same page there. In terms of two factions with CBG's lynch I agree it is the most likely scenario unless they thought his claim was shaky and wanted him gone? Highly doubtful.

I can see Drixx being scum, but I don't think it's likely. He would have to be a godfather and despite acting scummy, I am not sure. Moar seems to be certain, but Moar likes to play her hunches.

Since I don't believe there is a recruting faction we need to get rid of people who are scum and right now thats JCakes. I would say if we can come to a town consensus on who numbers should shoot with his shot, I think that's our best shot.

Maybe do a town vote for the numbers kill? I could see (other than cakes) Flub definitely being anti-town. And Drixx and Ant would be on the potential list as well.

Thoughts?
 
I think you dug your own grave here. I hope somebody else, who is town sees it and points it out.
I said yesterday that I didn't believe Jcakes, but how can you say now that he's confirmed lying? What did I miss?

There are two ways to arrive at conclusions. You can decide what you believe and then adapt any information or evidence to fit the conclusion you started with, or you can start without a conclusion and follow the evidence where it leads. Which method are you using?

What you missed, btw, was Jcakes doing a song and a dance to say that CGB was not a zombie.

I found it quite likely that Jcakes was lying yesterday , please read my posts. I don't find CBG turning up Zombie a reason to say Jcakes is lying if you didn't think so yesterday.

You should read my posts from yesterday. Jcakes claimed to have some zombie detector ability and claimed to use said ability to clear CGB as being not a zombie. The whole thing was staged. DJ claims zombie out of the blue with no reason to do so, and makes some comments that can't be true. Then suddenly we have two more power roles that deal with zombies?

Then Jcakes acts suspicious of the zombie curer claim and "tests" CGB and declares him clean. What was just suspicion yesterday became 99% confirmed today. Jcakes said he could test whether someone was a zombie or not, claimed to test CGB and told us that CGB was not a zombie, CGB gets investigated and killed during the night, and come to find out, he was a zombie. That makes Jcakes' statement a lie and thus makes Jcakes a zombie.

What's ironic is that the mafia team probably believed CGB and if Bad Ash had investigated someone else we would never have known and CGB being killed would probably have made most of us think Jcakes was legit instead of outing him as a zombie.

I was suspicious of both Jcakes and CGB yesterday, and said as much, because of how strange DJ's "I give up" post was combined with the convenient arrival of two people with zombie related roles, one of whom pretended to be suspicious of the other and "tested" him and declared him clean. It was a big song and dance.
 
I think Moar should be added to the shoot list as well, I guess if you want to be fair, throw me on it as well and korial if people agree that's the best use of the shot. Saving it till we needed it might not have been the worst idea.
 
AAA and flub are absolutely my choices for most likely scum, if we want to have me shoot someone tonight, which still has the same risks as before but if the town thinks it's best then I can do it. Another consideration btw is that our former vt claims(drixx/AAA/I think flub?) might be zombies now.
 
I think Moar should be added to the shoot list as well, I guess if you want to be fair, throw me on it as well and korial if people agree that's the best use of the shot. Saving it till we needed it might not have been the worst idea.

I can come up with justification for shooting everyone except for korial.

1. Laarz-scum working with BA, not actually dr.
2. Bad Ash-mafia role cop using town to flush out the competing faction
3. flubbucket-potential zombie now
4. AnnualAntAnswers-potential zombie now
5. Jcakes-gonna lynch anyways most likely, but likely zombie
6. Moar-godfather who made an early role claim designed to keep themselves from being lynched.
7. Drixx-godfather or zombie now
8. korialstraz-android ability that was used to protect the cop makes him seem about as town as is possible.
9. IWantToUseNumbersInMyName-claimed vig, still alive for some reason after so long, scum with BA

So yeah...there are multiple different scenarios encapsulated in that list that can't all be true, but there is definitely cause for shooting almost anyone.
 
I can see Drixx being scum, but I don't think it's likely. He would have to be a godfather and despite acting scummy, I am not sure. Moar seems to be certain, but Moar likes to play her hunches.

We haven't always seen eye to eye this game BA, but just evaluate the case Moar tried to make against me. I don't think it holds up to any logical scrutiny at all, but of course I'm biased.

Since I don't believe there is a recruting faction we need to get rid of people who are scum and right now thats JCakes. I would say if we can come to a town consensus on who numbers should shoot with his shot, I think that's our best shot.

Maybe do a town vote for the numbers kill? I could see (other than cakes) Flub definitely being anti-town. And Drixx and Ant would be on the potential list as well.

Thoughts?

I think you need only read what Numbers said yesterday about why he hasn't shot a 2nd time. Did you work out the numbers based upon how many scum are probably left?
 
I investigated CoolBadGuy.

Guess what? He was a zombie. Not a zombie curer. Same result as DJM.

Vote: JCakes

Interesting, unfortunately it is your word against mine and we have no proof either way. Other than the fact that CGB died last night and you apparently investigated him.

I trust Bad Ash with his information that CoolGuyBad was a zombie, which makes you one too. I like how you hedged with the "not currently" bit. I'm sure that will be your defense lol.

Also, I'm pretty sure I called it. DJ's claim with the slip and obvious misinformation followed by zombie related power roles coming out of the woodwork. Jcakes then doesn't test me (on two separate occasions that I give him a chance to) and instead tests the supposed zombie curer. I will give you guys some respect points for having the guts to make such a bold play. I was actually doubting myself by the end of yesterday because of your interaction with me Jcakes, but now that I look back, you quietly slipped away as soon as Moar jumped on me, and I should have noticed that as the day wound down you stopped talking, especially since one of the last things you said was:



You pointed out that conversation stopping would be a bad thing, threw some doubt on BA, and then stopped talking as soon as the heat was off you and onto me.

Vote: Jcakes

First point: Not surprised given how much you want to trust BA like I demonstrated yesterday

Second point: I didn't realise you wanted me to investigate you. And your plan makes 0 sense.

Third Point: TIME ZONE - My last post was at 10PM, the next post was at 1AM (I went to bed just before then), I got up at 7am (day ends at 7:30 am for me) checked to see if we had a lock and/or if a train hand changed 0 time for any comments, but nice trying to make me look scummy cos of my time zone .....

*nods* gwai was a bus driver yes, so it's basically definitely a mafia kill directed at someone who isn't friendly to them.

The only way I see a recruiting power being balanced is if it can only hit vt's. That way they can make an attempt each night, and either recruit a vt, or confirm a pr/scum, but not both. That limits it to at most one recruit gained per night, and only if they hit the right people. A limitation like that seems to be the only reason for an ability like cg's to be in the game. it makes him non vt without confirming to the town that there is a recruiting faction, or giving the town more power.

That is of course speculation, but i don't see it balanced any other way,

If he was a zombie curer and was recruited, then this game should have been over awhile ago.

Again this all assumes that BA is telling the truth.

If CGB wasn't a zombie yesterday, and BA investigated during the night, and the zombies also infected him during the night, the following would have to all be true for Jcakes' claims to be true:

1.) Zombies would have to be able to infect the power role put in the game to cure them.
2.) The zombie infect would have had to work (most recruit mechanisms are not 100% guaranteed)
3.) The zombie infect would have had to be instantaneous instead of taking effect at the end of the night, thus giving Bad Ash the zombie read.

I think that the much more simple explanation that the Zombies tried a gutsy play yesterday makes way more sense than believing those three things.

Can you please explain are so called gutsy play? The way I see what you are thinking is our gutsy play is the following

1. DJ claims zombie giving up
2. CGB and I claim zombie medic and zombie investiagor

that's a plan........ If I was a zombie and was on the same team, the better play would be for me to claim to investigate DJ reveal him as Zombie and gain town points. What you are stating that a zombie team did made absolutely no sense.
 
Drixx keeps on claiming some kind of conspiracy theory between me, DJ and CGB.

Here is the way I see it:
1. DJ gave up, not sure why
2. CGB and I claimed zombie related roles
3. I investigated CGB, because I was not sure about his claim
4. I get a not-zombie result
5. CGB ends up dead overnight
6. BA conveniently claims to have investigated CGB and he came up zombie

So far BA has provided no proof that he is who he says he is, yet people seem to take him at his word. Drixx keeps on pushing his idea of a Zombie team pulling a play yesterday, one that makes no sense. I feel that I am being massively set-up here.
Vote: Drixx
 
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